Wednesday, January 7, 2009
Mailbag You Know What We Haven't Talked About on Slog in, Like, Weeks? Pit Bulls!
Posted by Christopher Frizzelle on Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 6:15 AM
With regard to this, from the Regrets Issue:
Stranger news writer Jonah Spangenthal-Lee regrets that pit-bull owners are so in love with their stupid fucking monster dogs.
...a reader writes:
Hello. I truly hope that you will print this comment on what I feel was a harmful regret, by Jonah Spangenthal-Lee on page 21 of your 2008 regrets issue.... which was great, by the way.
I regret......
That Jonah Spangenthal-Lee wishes to pour salt upon the open wound that is the stereotypes forced upon Bull Terrier breed dogs (By the way, Pit-Bull is not an actual breed of dog). Anyone with any knowledge of this highly toxic issue knows that, "Bully breed," dogs have been absolutely victimized by human conditioning, by a few soulless, malicious people who have chosen to exploit them by training them to be aggressive. This minority of Bull Terrier owners have given birth to a never-ending-shit-storm of the type unfair and unsubstantiated stereotypes that Jonah apparently subscribes to, which has resulted in more unnecessary canine suffering than every dog shelter and Bull Terrier breed advocacy group in the land can even shake a stick at. And it is all born of the type of snide remarks that Jonah was allowed to make in what I consider to be one of the best Indie publications around. It's all hype, and it is truly a crime against a group of amazingly capable animals who can not defend themselves at all. I urge anyone who even thinks of subscribing to the idea that Pit Bull Terriers (Or any other Bull Terrier breed dogs) are brutes to do some research on the subject. Yes, they do have the capacity to look mean to the untrained eye and the closed mind, but they are not. This is a stereotype on the order of saying, "I regret that anyone loves Chinese people, because they can't drive for shit." These dogs have loyally worked beside (And for), and provided companionship for, humans for years before it was fashionable to exploit them for image and profit, resulting in their current state of desperation. I truly hope that propagating this type of dangerous fuckery appears at the top of Jonah Spangenthal-Lee's 2009 list of regrets. Love.
Derek
1
he should regret fanning the flames because here comes another shit storm system is moving in...
comments, GO!
comments, GO!
2
The Far Side had a great cartoon
Guy to dog: "Settle down, Sparky. I'll get you're biscuit in a minute. I wish you wouldn't look at me that way. Sparky, ok, here is the biscuit. Sit. Oh well. Sparky, you're such and such..."
Dog hears: "Blah blah, SPARKY. Blah balh blah blagh blah blah blah balah blah. Blah blah blah balh bal blah blah. SPARKY, blah, bla blah blah. Blah. Blah blah. SPARKY, blah blah blah bla blah..."
Jonah post: "Fuck fuck, Fucxk fuck COPS fuck fuck fuck fuck, Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuxk fcuk COPS fuck fuck fuck fuck I'M COOL fuck. Fuck. Fuck, fuck fuck fuck COPS, fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck, I'M SERIOUS, fuck fuck fuck fuckf I'M COOLER THAN YOU, fuck. Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fu....
Guy to dog: "Settle down, Sparky. I'll get you're biscuit in a minute. I wish you wouldn't look at me that way. Sparky, ok, here is the biscuit. Sit. Oh well. Sparky, you're such and such..."
Dog hears: "Blah blah, SPARKY. Blah balh blah blagh blah blah blah balah blah. Blah blah blah balh bal blah blah. SPARKY, blah, bla blah blah. Blah. Blah blah. SPARKY, blah blah blah bla blah..."
Jonah post: "Fuck fuck, Fucxk fuck COPS fuck fuck fuck fuck, Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuxk fcuk COPS fuck fuck fuck fuck I'M COOL fuck. Fuck. Fuck, fuck fuck fuck COPS, fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck, I'M SERIOUS, fuck fuck fuck fuckf I'M COOLER THAN YOU, fuck. Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fu....
3
Favorite passage: "...it is truly a crime against a group of amazingly capable animals who can not defend themselves at all."
You know, except for mauling your ass.
Yes, pit bulls are the way they are because of scurrilous humans who breed and train them to be vicious fighting animals. So here's a solution: committed bull terrier breeders and aficionados should decimate the breed -- kill every last animal that doesn't exhibit the best personality traits and start again. It's not that hard; dog breeding for particular traits is something we humans do very well.
Do that and I'll believe you really care.
You know, except for mauling your ass.
Yes, pit bulls are the way they are because of scurrilous humans who breed and train them to be vicious fighting animals. So here's a solution: committed bull terrier breeders and aficionados should decimate the breed -- kill every last animal that doesn't exhibit the best personality traits and start again. It's not that hard; dog breeding for particular traits is something we humans do very well.
Do that and I'll believe you really care.
4
Thank you Derek. I have been waiting for someone to say that as eloquently as you did. Slog I love you, you fill my day's at work with so much unproductiveness, however you're ignorance on this topic brings shame to me. You so willfully (and rightfully so) slam the right for their unforgivable closed minds yet you fail to broach this subject with an open one. Instead you fuel the fire of these harmful stereotypes.
5
@2: Ginger. http://www.bodhipaksa.com/images/larson.…
I wouldn't nitpick, but when my brother and I were growing up, if my father sensed we weren't paying attention to what he was saying, he'd switch to "Blah blah blah Ginger blah blah."
I wouldn't nitpick, but when my brother and I were growing up, if my father sensed we weren't paying attention to what he was saying, he'd switch to "Blah blah blah Ginger blah blah."
6
Um, yeah, except that the one is demeaning to humans, and the other to dogs. I don't think the dogs are that offended.
This is a stereotype on the order of saying, "I regret that anyone loves Chinese people, because they can't drive for shit."
Um, yeah, except that the one is demeaning to humans, and the other to dogs. I don't think the dogs are that offended.
7
Dude's wrong, though. "American Pit Bull Terrier" IS a breed, registerable through the UKC (which is one of the oldest dog breed registries and used to sanction pit bull fights). The "American Staffordshire Terrier" is essentially the pit bull, slightly cleaned up for AKC registration. Pit bulls and American Staffordshire terriers are basically indistinguishable from each other such that you can ILP (a means of registering a dog of unknown origin with AKC so that you can show it in performance events like Agility and Obedience, and YES, the dog must be neutered) a pit bull as an American Staffordshire terrier.
The "Bull Terrier" the letter writer refers to is a different breed (think Spuds McKenzie or the Target dog). There is also the Staffordshire Bull Terrier, which is a smaller dog though not necessarily any less muscular. It's worth noting, though, that while Bull Terriers are often temperamentally unstable (they can have a genetic copper deficiency that causes a lot of problems) I have NEVER met an aggressive Staffordshire Bull Terrier--even the unaltered ones I have known are sweet and peaceful dogs. Nonetheless, they get lumped in with Pits.
The "Bull Terrier" the letter writer refers to is a different breed (think Spuds McKenzie or the Target dog). There is also the Staffordshire Bull Terrier, which is a smaller dog though not necessarily any less muscular. It's worth noting, though, that while Bull Terriers are often temperamentally unstable (they can have a genetic copper deficiency that causes a lot of problems) I have NEVER met an aggressive Staffordshire Bull Terrier--even the unaltered ones I have known are sweet and peaceful dogs. Nonetheless, they get lumped in with Pits.
8
who owns pit bulls?
mostly, it's lower-income or "rebel" young men who like to bask in the reflected bad ass athleticism & aggression of the dogs. some take the time to control their dogs. most don't. most of the aggressive pits aren't fixed so you can see the giant balls - way scarier. neglect, abuse that makes pits dangerous - this is the population that does it.
some (mostly rescued) pits are owned by loving, attentive, disciplined lesbians.
mostly, it's lower-income or "rebel" young men who like to bask in the reflected bad ass athleticism & aggression of the dogs. some take the time to control their dogs. most don't. most of the aggressive pits aren't fixed so you can see the giant balls - way scarier. neglect, abuse that makes pits dangerous - this is the population that does it.
some (mostly rescued) pits are owned by loving, attentive, disciplined lesbians.
9
Official UKC standard for the American Pit Bull Terrier:
http://www.ukcdogs.com/WebSite.nsf/Breed…
Official AKC standard for the American Staffordshire Terrier:
http://www.akc.org/breeds/american_staff…
Official AKC standard for the Bull Terrier:
http://www.akc.org/breeds/bull_terrier/
Official AKC standard for the Staffordshire Bull Terrier:
http://www.akc.org/breeds/staffordshire_…
http://www.ukcdogs.com/WebSite.nsf/Breed…
Official AKC standard for the American Staffordshire Terrier:
http://www.akc.org/breeds/american_staff…
Official AKC standard for the Bull Terrier:
http://www.akc.org/breeds/bull_terrier/
Official AKC standard for the Staffordshire Bull Terrier:
http://www.akc.org/breeds/staffordshire_…
10
He's got a point -- Chinese driver's CAN'T drive for shit, and without ANY PROVOCATION they can crash into my sister's car and kill her. I therefore regret that anyone makes love to Chinese people and thereby creates more Chinese people that crash into and maim or kill others without any provocation.
11
Why do many dog advocates say "Don't stereotype certain breeds as vicious! Stereotyping = bad!!!"... and then turn around and say "Yep, golden retrievers is a great breed if you have kids; they're playful and friendly!"
Certain breeds have certain behavioral characteristics, and not all behaviors are good.
Certain breeds have certain behavioral characteristics, and not all behaviors are good.
12
...If it's only poor defenseless dogs who've been TRAINED to be aggressive, then why is it that on just about everything I read about pit bulls attacking someone, the owners simply can't believe that their sweet animal would do such a thing?
13
September 24, 2010
Wherever, USA - A Wherever, USA family's 4 year-old Pit Bull Terrier critically mauled his owner, Derek Whatever last Saturday, ingesting half of his face and his right hand. This is now the 10,413th Pit Bull-specific attack in the United States so far this year. Derek regained consciousness yesterday and using the remaining left half of his lips, was able to slur, "He's never shown any signs of aggression before."
Wherever, USA - A Wherever, USA family's 4 year-old Pit Bull Terrier critically mauled his owner, Derek Whatever last Saturday, ingesting half of his face and his right hand. This is now the 10,413th Pit Bull-specific attack in the United States so far this year. Derek regained consciousness yesterday and using the remaining left half of his lips, was able to slur, "He's never shown any signs of aggression before."
14
@SD Dan actually if you have children golden retrievers are not particularly good dogs just for fact that they shed a lot and leave a lot of dander thus equaling allergy's. You know what are good dogs for children? Short haired dogs such as Pitt Bulls. They have short hair and are less likely to leave dander. When trained properly, like every dog should be, they are the perfect pet for children. They are loyal and will do anything to please their master(s) (including the children), which is why they are so easily manipulated.
15
I'd give my right eye to hear Spuds McKenzie speak (English) on this topic.
16
Every Pit Bull owner should be forced to watch The Dog Whisperer.
Bit Bulls (like Bull Dogs, Rottweilers, etc.) are a gladiator breed, and they ARE potentially very dangerous. If you own one of these dogs, you have to understand its potential to mame and kill or you are putting everyone at risk.
These breeds are not suitable for casual dog owners, bleeding heart animal lovers, or psychopathic thugs. They require someone is willing and able to establish themselves as a pack leader, and that's something most people have know idea how to do.
Bit Bulls (like Bull Dogs, Rottweilers, etc.) are a gladiator breed, and they ARE potentially very dangerous. If you own one of these dogs, you have to understand its potential to mame and kill or you are putting everyone at risk.
These breeds are not suitable for casual dog owners, bleeding heart animal lovers, or psychopathic thugs. They require someone is willing and able to establish themselves as a pack leader, and that's something most people have know idea how to do.
17
@14: Wrong. Short-coated dogs don't shed any less than long-coated dogs. DOUBLE COATED dogs as a general rule, shed more than single-coated dogs, be they short or long-haired. OTOH, I had a Dalmatian in my car for 5 minutes once and I have NEVER seen a dog shed so much in such a short time...
Short hair tends to stick in things and be harder to pick up than long hair. But either way, the amount of fur a dog sheds has little effect on dander/allergies. In general, it's thought that dogs with HAIR as opposed to FUR (IOW, dogs that must be trimmed or the coat will continue to grow, like Poodles or Bichons) are less likely to cause an allergic reaction.
Short hair tends to stick in things and be harder to pick up than long hair. But either way, the amount of fur a dog sheds has little effect on dander/allergies. In general, it's thought that dogs with HAIR as opposed to FUR (IOW, dogs that must be trimmed or the coat will continue to grow, like Poodles or Bichons) are less likely to cause an allergic reaction.
18
Dangerous Fuckery should be the follow-up album to Chinese Democracy.
19
I don't know much about this debate, only that my cousin owns a pit bull named Rocky and he is the sweetest dog in the world. He's also afraid of his own shadow. And when we walk him he is required by law to wear a muzzle and people cross the street to get away from him.
Did I mention he likes to be spooned at night?
Did I mention he likes to be spooned at night?
20
Behavioral characteristics are part of breeding.
For example, in the case of Dalmatians, there has to be a specific rank and hierarchy in the family, otherwise the dog becomes unruly and "accidentally violent" toward lower ranked members of the family. With children, the age threshhold is around 10, though a better behaved child of 8 can be around these dogs. They are aggressive and playful and treat subordinates as toys.
Temperment is an important characteristic when considering a breed. While a well-raised dog can be drawn away in general from its temperment, the risks inherent to willfully ignoring the latent possibility of violence or unruly behavior is a danger to owners.
For example, in the case of Dalmatians, there has to be a specific rank and hierarchy in the family, otherwise the dog becomes unruly and "accidentally violent" toward lower ranked members of the family. With children, the age threshhold is around 10, though a better behaved child of 8 can be around these dogs. They are aggressive and playful and treat subordinates as toys.
Temperment is an important characteristic when considering a breed. While a well-raised dog can be drawn away in general from its temperment, the risks inherent to willfully ignoring the latent possibility of violence or unruly behavior is a danger to owners.
21
As for owners being "surprised" their pit bulls attacked them. I dunno... may they're lying? Seems like you wouldn't want to admit to being an evil asshole dog abuser who bought a perfectly friendly dog just to kick the shit out of it until it'll attack anything it can get it's damaged little paws on.
My old dog (I know you're up in heaven, Max) was part lhassapso (I really don't know how to spell that and really don't feel like looking it up) and part poodle. He was an asshole and enjoyed biting lots of people, particularly the UPS guy. I happen to think this made him a hilarious dog, because he was tiny so watching him attack things was... well, hilarious. But really, in the grand scheme of things, HE should have been put down for being violent, not every goddamn pit bull. But because he was little and cute, he lived to ripe old age.
Just sayin'...
My old dog (I know you're up in heaven, Max) was part lhassapso (I really don't know how to spell that and really don't feel like looking it up) and part poodle. He was an asshole and enjoyed biting lots of people, particularly the UPS guy. I happen to think this made him a hilarious dog, because he was tiny so watching him attack things was... well, hilarious. But really, in the grand scheme of things, HE should have been put down for being violent, not every goddamn pit bull. But because he was little and cute, he lived to ripe old age.
Just sayin'...
22
Max @ 8 is right. We're talking about banning the wrong breed. We don't need to ban pit bulls, we need to ban young black males. Recent events at Chop Suey (and about 40 other locations in the CD and Rainier Valley) have proven this, no?
23
Either *unsubstantiated stereotype* is meant to be a pleonasm or the claim is false. Of course in one sense stereotypes are false - if they are interpreted to mean that all instances of type instantiate the sterotypical qualities. But of course one need not believe that to want a ban on pit-bulls. Not every sex offender will reoffend, but we don't let them live accross the street from a grade-school. Not every felon is going to emerge from prison with a tendency to remain felonious, but we don't let them own guns. Lots of laws and policies are based on stereotypes. The pitbull stereotype is at least as substantiated as these sorts of stereotypes are, and when it comes right down to it we are talking about owning a dog, not basic rights like freedom of travel, freedom to chose where you live, and the right to own a gun. So the standard of evidence is even lower. Pit-bull owners really have no argument here.
24
Selective breeding. Any dog that attacks and/or seriously injures a human is put down. Period.
25
I know it's early, but "dangerous fuckery" is a contender for 2009 Phrase of the Year.
26
@16
But Ceasar doesn't refer to them as monster dogs and would also tell you that any dog has the potential to do what you suggest with the wrong kind of training and influences.
@19
That is my pit bull exactly. She's a big sweet baby that literally will try and comfort you when you cry (cute, but really annoying if you're trying to get a good cry in). She loves to lay next to my husband and I and will let out a big giant sigh if we don't throw an arm around her. cesar Probably would not be pleased.
I can understand someone being scared of her because of all the bullshit that the breed has had to endure, but after 5 minutes around her I can promise you will see that she's not some vicious creature. We've had people come into our home to install cable or fix something and at first they are weary of her, but by the end of the visit they want to take her home.
But Ceasar doesn't refer to them as monster dogs and would also tell you that any dog has the potential to do what you suggest with the wrong kind of training and influences.
@19
That is my pit bull exactly. She's a big sweet baby that literally will try and comfort you when you cry (cute, but really annoying if you're trying to get a good cry in). She loves to lay next to my husband and I and will let out a big giant sigh if we don't throw an arm around her. cesar Probably would not be pleased.
I can understand someone being scared of her because of all the bullshit that the breed has had to endure, but after 5 minutes around her I can promise you will see that she's not some vicious creature. We've had people come into our home to install cable or fix something and at first they are weary of her, but by the end of the visit they want to take her home.
27
The sooner we arm small children with remote-control devices that set off explosives in collars of all pit bulls, the better.
Mind you, I don't want to do cleanup afterwards ...
Mind you, I don't want to do cleanup afterwards ...
28
Excellent... she's being lulled into complacency.... Soon come the bitings! I shall eat your SOUL! (...and your toes. Mmm, love me some toes...)
29
@26 - I pretty much agree with what you're saying, but in @16's defense, I think that he/she was just pointing out that not all dogs are suitable for all owners, and that some breeds require owners with a different set of skills and tolerances. Not only is that not a particularly inflammatory statement; it is, in fact, precisely the attitude that will help us transcend this Manichean dichotomy of "ban the breed" alarmism and head-in-the-sand denial that there's any problem that requires attention.
30
The Stranger wants license to be mean, hateful, and bigoted, but the only targets they can get away with attacking are pit bulls, fat people, and sometimes Christians. The best way to get them to hit pit bulls less would be to offer up more groups they are free to hate.
31
@ 22 - The alleged 18 yr old shooter at Chop Suey is named Carlos Bernandez. I haven't seen any pics of him yet, but I'm guessing he's not black.
32
@22: i never said black males. black males are a subset of the larger group. there's plenty of irresponsible young males of all ethnicities who neglect & abuse pit bulls.
33
@32; You're right once again Max; black males are just a subset. We need to ban all blacks -- male, female, young and old. And as 31 points out, we need to extend that ban to other ethnicities as well. Good points all!
34
Please, please please quit comparing people's varying attitudes to different breeds of dog (look up the word "breed" if you don't understand what this word means in this context) to their attitudes towards humans of differing ethnicities. Human "races" are not even remotely analogous to dog breeds.
"I regret that anyone loves Chinese people, because they can't drive for shit."
Please, please please quit comparing people's varying attitudes to different breeds of dog (look up the word "breed" if you don't understand what this word means in this context) to their attitudes towards humans of differing ethnicities. Human "races" are not even remotely analogous to dog breeds.
35
Sterotypes are a huge time-saver.
36
@8: I have to post this AGAIN?
Famous Pit Bull Owners Past & Present:
Jon Stewart of the Daily Show (notice Dan didn't get invited on when he did all those other shows in NY...hee hee) FABB is trying to get him as our spokesperson for next year on PB awareness day:)
John Steinbeck
Jessica Biel
Madonna
Pink
Julian Schaebel
RainnWilson & wife Holiday Reinhorn
Jessica Alba
Woodrow Wilson
Rachael Ray (coner of Modern dog this month)
Jimmy Carter
Rick Springfield
Ira Glass
Orlando Bloom
Tameka Dixon of the WNBA
Mel Brooks
Fred Adstair
Ceasar Milian
P.S. Pit Bulls made the cover of S.I. this month with a story of how 48 of 49 of douche bag Vick's dogs were rehabbed!!!!!!! HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!!!
For a complete list of celeb pitties visit www.FabbSeattle.org
P.S. Derek...you rock! Is that Derek from Magnuson with Ellie?
Famous Pit Bull Owners Past & Present:
Jon Stewart of the Daily Show (notice Dan didn't get invited on when he did all those other shows in NY...hee hee) FABB is trying to get him as our spokesperson for next year on PB awareness day:)
John Steinbeck
Jessica Biel
Madonna
Pink
Julian Schaebel
RainnWilson & wife Holiday Reinhorn
Jessica Alba
Woodrow Wilson
Rachael Ray (coner of Modern dog this month)
Jimmy Carter
Rick Springfield
Ira Glass
Orlando Bloom
Tameka Dixon of the WNBA
Mel Brooks
Fred Adstair
Ceasar Milian
P.S. Pit Bulls made the cover of S.I. this month with a story of how 48 of 49 of douche bag Vick's dogs were rehabbed!!!!!!! HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!!!
For a complete list of celeb pitties visit www.FabbSeattle.org
P.S. Derek...you rock! Is that Derek from Magnuson with Ellie?
37
LOL @35! I would like to add that they also require less thought and are therefore more energy-efficient.
38
@36, Um, you realize most of those celebrities have pit bulls because celebrities get stalkers and pit bulls are the best legal animals for killing unannounced visitors, right? That's like saying alligators are great pets because kings put them in their castle moats.
39
jrrl, I'm pretty sure none of those celebrities wants their kids to be killed by their own guard dogs.
40
Yeah, John Steinbeck and Mark Twain had the paparazzi beating down their doors....now put on your thinking cap and try harder:)
41
@8...is Max short for maxine?
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