Slog
News & ArtsTuesday, January 6, 2009
Chow Paper Tiger
Posted by Dominic Holden on Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 3:21 PM
The city's ban on Styrofoam to-go containers took effect last Thursday. So when I picked up my teriyaki lunch today, lo and behold, the plasticine vessel my food normally comes in was instead replaced by a clamshell cardboard box. I asked the friendly woman behind the counter what she thought about the new containers.
"It is not as good," she said.
Then a man, who overheard our conversation, darted out from the kitchen to add his two cents. "With the sauces in the bottom, sometimes the customers pick it up, and it falls through," he said. "The city people, they don't care."
Sorry, nice teriyaki woman and agitated teriyaki man, I don't care either. Squeaky Styrofoam containers shift around in the bag and leak sauce, but not this paper container. After 20 minutes on my desk, the box was still sturdy and no sauce had leaked through the bottom. Moreover, my lunch container won't be bobbing around the Great Pacific Garbage Patch when I'm dead.
1
I had one of the paper ones yesterday and the liquid did leak through. Cheap and flimsy. but you CAN bring your own tupperware to the restaurants and have them fill that with you meal.
3
@1 I never thought of taking my own tupperware that's a great idea! I've had take away 4 times since thursday and 3 times I've gotten styrofoam. At one place I go in a few times a week so I'm guessing they are using the last of it up on regulars.
Any idea on what happens if they get caught using it?
Any idea on what happens if they get caught using it?
4
Oh really? I just got teriyaki in a styrofoam container on Sunday. Huh.
Cardboard sucks and sauces can leak through. I still want my styrofoam containers in plastic bags, thank you very much.
Cardboard sucks and sauces can leak through. I still want my styrofoam containers in plastic bags, thank you very much.
5
Paper containers still take energy to produce and compost or recycle. Did they give it to you in a plastic bag? Did you get plastic utensils and a paper napkin? Unless you're eating locally-grown organically raised vegan food carried to market on the back of a pedestrian farmer, and you carry the food home from the market (on foot!) in an organic reusable bag and eat it raw while sitting in the dark, and compost any parts that can't be eaten, you're still ruining the environment.
6
god, can't we have a decent japanese fast food place in this fucking city like LA or NYC? gawd! or, a decent teriyaki place even.
teriyaki is like eating sweet meat *or tofu* and that sucks.
teriyaki is like eating sweet meat *or tofu* and that sucks.
7
I have yet to find a decent teriyaki place, or a good ramen place. Denver has both that are head & shoulders better than what seattle has to offer :(
8
True dat #6. I don't care much for Japanese food, but the lack of good teriyaki around here is sad. The only good place, Jo Jo Teriyaki, closed shortly after I moved off the hill.
And yes, depending on what you get, the cardboard containers do suck. They absorb the juice and sauce and fall apart easily. What happened to the old wax paper containers?
And yes, depending on what you get, the cardboard containers do suck. They absorb the juice and sauce and fall apart easily. What happened to the old wax paper containers?
12
Dominic, I'm curious about your implicit model of economic behavior. It seems consistent to believe that businesses and customers prefer styrofoam because it works better than paper, but since styrofoam has environmental costs type do not bear, government needs to regulate its use. But is seems bizarre to believe that even though paper would work better, government must step in and demand its use because intransigent, customer-hating businesses continue to use the less effective alternative. If that's true, perhaps governent needs to step in and regulate teriyaki recipies too, since it knows better than business and their customers what works well.
13
I like those recycled brown paper containers you get in Portland.
Oh, get that, Portland doing it better.
Oh, get that, Portland doing it better.
14
For a more immediate-harm argument, check out that styrofoam container after you've finished the meal.
If you drop a nice hot stir-fry or fried-rice dish in there, or try some Pho, notice that the material directly under the food looks different.
Notice that the surface isn't as reflective; that it appears rougher. Sometimes a hot eggroll will melt all the way through the bottom of the container.
Where do you think that stuff ends up?
Eating hot food out of styrofoam can't be healthy. They'll figure out the paper containers soon enough.
If you drop a nice hot stir-fry or fried-rice dish in there, or try some Pho, notice that the material directly under the food looks different.
Notice that the surface isn't as reflective; that it appears rougher. Sometimes a hot eggroll will melt all the way through the bottom of the container.
Where do you think that stuff ends up?
Eating hot food out of styrofoam can't be healthy. They'll figure out the paper containers soon enough.
15
So what exactly is the law in terms of bringing in your own dinner ware? Can the food place get in trouble for putting food in the container I bring them?
16
I order curry takeout sometimes.
I don't care either.
But I miss drawing ECB's face on the plastic bags used to pick up dog poo my neighbors leave on my lawn ...
I don't care either.
But I miss drawing ECB's face on the plastic bags used to pick up dog poo my neighbors leave on my lawn ...
19
Whoops. John beat me to it. But those things don't get crushed the way styrofoam does and they rarely leak.
20
@3 What happens if they get caught using it? Probably nothing unless someone complains. I'm guessing that, like the smoking ban, there will be no enforcement unless a bunch of people report it.
I've been getting food in those thick biodegradable cartons (don't know what they're made of) that look and feel almost exactly like styrofoam, and work just as well.
I've been getting food in those thick biodegradable cartons (don't know what they're made of) that look and feel almost exactly like styrofoam, and work just as well.
22
Those paper containers are lined with plastic - they're probably not decomposing either - but I think they're a step in the right direction. Packaging COULD be replaced by more degradable materials, it'll just have to come down in cost, or be mandated, to go into widespread use.
23
I got my lunch in one of those styrofoam containers not more than three hours ago.
Maybe I should have it framed for posterity.
Maybe I should have it framed for posterity.
26
The "Great Pacific Garbage Patch" is about as real as Bill Gates offering 1 million dollars for forwarding an email, but you guys keep passing the "news" along like it was Gregoire taking over as commerce secretary.
I understand that we are all amazed that our special-ed city council can even get this nanny state BS accomplished, but if we set the bar any lower around here somebody is going to stub a toe.
Yay for the retards!
I understand that we are all amazed that our special-ed city council can even get this nanny state BS accomplished, but if we set the bar any lower around here somebody is going to stub a toe.
Yay for the retards!
27
The paper containers suck.
Try going to Cafe Zum Zum or somewhere like that with lots and lots of sauce. So much sauce leaks out even the plastic bag becomes full of leakage.
re: Chicken Teriyaki - Most people seem to knock Hanas on Broadway for their cheap sushi but their boneless Chicken Don is still under $6 and comes with all the skin and fat on it. It is not too sweet, a bit savory, and sprinkled with chopped green onion over a generous bowl of rice.
Most places have the same cookie cutter teriyaki chicken. The dry skinless strips of chicken smothered in that generic sweet sauce to hide the chicken's dryness and blandness.
Try going to Cafe Zum Zum or somewhere like that with lots and lots of sauce. So much sauce leaks out even the plastic bag becomes full of leakage.
re: Chicken Teriyaki - Most people seem to knock Hanas on Broadway for their cheap sushi but their boneless Chicken Don is still under $6 and comes with all the skin and fat on it. It is not too sweet, a bit savory, and sprinkled with chopped green onion over a generous bowl of rice.
Most places have the same cookie cutter teriyaki chicken. The dry skinless strips of chicken smothered in that generic sweet sauce to hide the chicken's dryness and blandness.
28
Fuck the earth. Give me snap tight, microwavable plastic to-go containers. I'm tired of the inside of my bag smelling like a food court after a pick ride.
30
Mercifully this rule only applies within Seattle city limits. Good thing the council didn't spend its time doing useful things last year, like, I don't know, revisiting its snow plans?
32
Who really cares... if it's not served on fine china with a linen napkin your not going to catch me eating it... How could any one be so very terribly common as to eat something out of a box?... Its simply not civilized.
33
I'm being a bit sarcastic, but I don't know. I'd just like to see a picture of it. Seems like it would be easy as it is supposed to be "as big as the state of Texas". All anyone can ever point me to are artist's renderings and picture of garbage floating in water that are obviously not a giant garbage patch. I am starting to think it is just an urban legend.
34
@6, 7, 8: Try Best of Bento in the U District for good teriyaki. Or, if you've got a hard-on for more authentic Japanese cuisine, go to Bush Garden in the ID.
35
#33, it's not a giant island of continuous garbage (that's what I thought at first too), it's an area of water that is saturated with pieces of plastic and smaller bits of degraded plastic. Certain areas have something like 1 million pieces of plastic per square mile and a certain amount of mass per square meter average, which was determined through sampling. Wikipedia has the numbers, I think.
38
I agree with @34. For curry (and they wrap some things in aluminum foil) try that cool curry shop in Fremont, the one next to the barbershop.
41
No, that's cause you forgot the contents may shift during travel.
I had that happen pre-2009 once. Hold the bag from the bottom, or bring a picnic basket.
I had that happen pre-2009 once. Hold the bag from the bottom, or bring a picnic basket.
42
Most people who like fast food would take it out of a trough on the sidewalk if it came down to it. They'd complain, but they'd still eat. So why risk any pollution at all if it makes no difference?
43
Indian restaurants here have always use paper cartons, wrapped in plastic wrap. Never had a leak, but my shoulder bag always contains another plastic bag as backup (if I'm picking up on my bike).
44
People seems to like Chopsticks on Cap Hill... I really need to give it a try myself.
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Locat…
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Locat…
45
95% of all those cardboard boxes are still going to the Oregon landfill and lay in the anaerobic gue until the end of time. They will not be composed. Bring back the nice white clam shells.
46
@45: LOL.
Belker [typing on booking form]: "Last name?"
[Hooker]: "G-u-e."
Belker: "Goo-ay?"
[Hooker]: "Goo."
Belker: "First name?"
[Hooker]: "Lotta."
Belker: "Grrrrr!"
Belker [typing on booking form]: "Last name?"
[Hooker]: "G-u-e."
Belker: "Goo-ay?"
[Hooker]: "Goo."
Belker: "First name?"
[Hooker]: "Lotta."
Belker: "Grrrrr!"
47
You're going to catch ague.
If there's lots of sauce, you have to cradle the damned styrofoam containers too because it's real easy to slop over the side. The Chinese containers work just fine. Yes, they're coated with plastic, but it's better.
Still, the demise of the styrofoam container is a bit nostalgic for me. One, I used to make airplanes out of them that were awesome. Two, you can make a killer napalm from those and some nail polish remover.
If there's lots of sauce, you have to cradle the damned styrofoam containers too because it's real easy to slop over the side. The Chinese containers work just fine. Yes, they're coated with plastic, but it's better.
Still, the demise of the styrofoam container is a bit nostalgic for me. One, I used to make airplanes out of them that were awesome. Two, you can make a killer napalm from those and some nail polish remover.
48
Huh. I swear the pho broth container I got from Than Bros in Ballard tonight was real gen-yoo-wine styrofoam (or polystyrene, really, right?) I'd be awfully surprised if it was biodegradable cornstuff.
On a similar note, I got pho there about a month or two ago and brought in a canvas bag for the carrying of the take-out. Nuh uh! The staff would have none of it. They couldn't stack everything up and tie it the way they preferred. I was too wussy to argue.
On a similar note, I got pho there about a month or two ago and brought in a canvas bag for the carrying of the take-out. Nuh uh! The staff would have none of it. They couldn't stack everything up and tie it the way they preferred. I was too wussy to argue.
49
My friend's grandfather invented styrofoam, he spent a lifetime repenting. Poor guy was a compulsive recycler, vegan, environmentalist, eco-freak. He'll be so happy to hear that his grandfather's legacy has come to an end in the Emerald City.
Its a good thing people. Paper containers leak less and they take up a lot less room in the trash but most importantly paper containers don't make those creepy squeaky noises or leak weird plastic chemicals into your food.
Its a good thing people. Paper containers leak less and they take up a lot less room in the trash but most importantly paper containers don't make those creepy squeaky noises or leak weird plastic chemicals into your food.
51
I used to make airplanes and buildings out of clamshell takeout containers when I was a kid. Man, that was fun!
But wax paper is a good idea.
But wax paper is a good idea.
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