Monday, January 5, 2009
City Shooting at Chop Suey
Posted by Jonah Spangenthal-Lee on Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 8:47 AM
Three men in their twenties were shot at Chop Suey on Saturday night; one, local MC 29-E was killed, and another, 1st Black Prez, is in critical condition at Harborview.
According to a witness, someone opened up the side door at Chop Suey, opened fire, and fled. Police arrested three people in connection with the shooting. Two, an 18-year-old and a 25-year-old, remain in custody.
Several hiphop acts were scheduled to perform at Chop Suey, including Young Soprano, Fatal Lucciano, No Clue, Dividenz, and Anonimous. A witness says Young Soprano was performing when the shooting happened.
One of the show's promoters said he'd been urged to cancel the event because of the possibility of a gang-related conflict.
"There were rumors circulating about the show and people told me not to put it on," the promoter says. "Some of these people are from down south and some of them are from the Central District." He says one of the performers even brought their own security.
The promoter says he heard 5 or 6 shots in the back of the club near the bathrooms and saw the show's host, 1st Black Prez, get hit in the chest.
SPD's homicide and gang detectives are investigating.
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2
this is the guy that was doing the show tonight:
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fus…
thank him for bringing this to us :D
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fus…
thank him for bringing this to us :D
4
Fatal Luciano just got out of jail. These kids watched Scarface too many times and too many 50 Cent videos.
5
There's been all kinds of shootings lately. If the cops don't think it's worth the time to check out all the "hip hop nights", then there must not be anything to it. Or Chop Suey can cancel these shows altogether.
6
Looks like it's time to add Chop Suey to my list of places to not go to unless I'm looking for a bullet injection, Southcenter Mall and the Baltic Room were in need of a new friend anyhow.
7
dont pull people's names that have nothing to do with this, Fatal Lucciauno's performance was long over when this happened
8
As someone who was at the show, you cannot blame this on local hip hop. Music doesn't make people shoot eachother. People shoot people.
The real problem is the shooter. There was no reason for this to ever have happened.
The real problem is the shooter. There was no reason for this to ever have happened.
9
Right. People are so quick to blame hip hop. Do y'all actually ever get out to a hip hop show? Seattle has a super peaceful one love hip hop scene. Music doesn't make people kill each other.
10
"he'd been urged to cancel the show because of the possibility of a gang related conflict"
sounds like this was directly related to the music being performed
sounds like this was directly related to the music being performed
11
speaking as someone who is visibly queer that happened to walk by that place tonight, i can say that i was harassed walking by that club. i didn't do anything to bring it on, but it was made explicitly clear that i was a faggot and was not welcome near there.
12
that's a stretch. do you think the shooting at folklife last summer was related to the folk music being played there?
13
Sounds pretty local hip hop related to me, when's the last time a dude got killed at a Shins show?
I do realize I'm making broad generalizations here so I'll be sure to check out a local hip hop show for myself when my Flack Jacket arrives from Amazon.
I do realize I'm making broad generalizations here so I'll be sure to check out a local hip hop show for myself when my Flack Jacket arrives from Amazon.
18
My sympathies for victims. What is it about the new years time of year that brings out people killing people. Last year was the Harps murder and now we're three for three of shootings on each day of the new year. Maybe Tim Eyeman should start an initiative to ban new years
20
This isn't about local hip hop in general, but it is about these particular groups and the promoter, and their glorification of gangsterism. They are little punks emulating some supposed golden age of hip hop and gangs. It's be a pathetic joke if people weren't dying over it. Instead it's just pathetic.
22
"speaking as someone who is visibly queer that happened to walk by that place tonight, i can say that i was harassed walking by that club. i didn't do anything to bring it on, but it was made explicitly clear that i was a faggot and was not welcome near there."
Sounds like Hip Hop to me.
"Looks like it's time to add Chop Suey to my list of places to not go to unless I'm looking for a bullet injection, Southcenter Mall and the Baltic Room were in need of a new friend anyhow."
The problem here is the nights, not the venues. I predict we'll hear the War Room getting set off next.
Sounds like Hip Hop to me.
"Looks like it's time to add Chop Suey to my list of places to not go to unless I'm looking for a bullet injection, Southcenter Mall and the Baltic Room were in need of a new friend anyhow."
The problem here is the nights, not the venues. I predict we'll hear the War Room getting set off next.
23
"This isn't about local hip hop in general, but it is about these particular groups and the promoter, and their glorification of gangsterism. They are little punks emulating some supposed golden age of hip hop and gangs. It's be a pathetic joke if people weren't dying over it. Instead it's just pathetic."
You're right, I apologize. Gangster trash doesn't equal all of hiphop. These nights are shit and do bring around a shit audience.
You're right, I apologize. Gangster trash doesn't equal all of hiphop. These nights are shit and do bring around a shit audience.
24
Its just like how people blame our NØrwegian Black Metal musik for all the church burnings and cannibalisms just because we sing songs about burning churches and eating people and because our bass player got arrested outside a church with a can of gasoline and a gnawed on human foot in backpack. People are sso prejudissed against musik.
26
It's not the music that is the problem. It's the PEOPLE who ATTEND that are the problem.
How should the police handle it? I do not know.
But, don't blame the music itself.
I listen to 50 Cent sometimes because he is catchy, but I am not a gangbanger. But, 50 Cent and musicians of his type, who are basically gangster rappers, are very popular with gangbangers.
Also, not all hip-hop/rap is the same. When was the last time someone got shot at a Common or a Blue Scholars show?
How should the police handle it? I do not know.
But, don't blame the music itself.
I listen to 50 Cent sometimes because he is catchy, but I am not a gangbanger. But, 50 Cent and musicians of his type, who are basically gangster rappers, are very popular with gangbangers.
Also, not all hip-hop/rap is the same. When was the last time someone got shot at a Common or a Blue Scholars show?
27
you gonna blame the capitol hill massacre at the rave on the music?
you gonna blame dimebag's death on stage on his music?
you gonna blame the slaughter in carnation last year on christmas?
you gonna blame the one this year in cali on christmas too?
people need to take responsibility for themselves and their own actions, stop making someTHING responsible instead of someone
I will say that the security at certain venues in this town needs to be stepped up, pat downs, metal detectors/wands, make the place safer pro actively
you gonna blame dimebag's death on stage on his music?
you gonna blame the slaughter in carnation last year on christmas?
you gonna blame the one this year in cali on christmas too?
people need to take responsibility for themselves and their own actions, stop making someTHING responsible instead of someone
I will say that the security at certain venues in this town needs to be stepped up, pat downs, metal detectors/wands, make the place safer pro actively
28
A tragedy-I wish the best for the people hurt. It does seem that for whatever reason there are an unusual number of people making hip hop music and people who go to hip hop shows (across the whole genre, not necessarily in seattle) that use violence ans guns and killing to solve problems or whatever. I don't see the same thing associated with other styles of music. That doesn't mean that hip hop music causes the violence but does mean that hip hop shows become a marker for an increased chance of violence.
29
Jesus christ how do you idiots not get it? If a person has such little will power that he lets music control his life, he was bound to do some foul shit anyway, even if he listened to soft, contemporary rock. Charles Manson used The Beatles to justify his crimes.
30
The venues have complete control over who gets to play there. If they decide to host shows featuring performers who come with rumors of violent gang conflict, their own personal security staff, and ultimately, dead bodies; then they should be held accountable for that by having people rightfully associate that particular venue with getting shot.
32
I love it how people think it's ok to crack jokes when there are folks reading and responding to this right now who know people who are fighting for their life. Do you see how trivial this shit is? I know it's best to remove emotion from the equation, but there is some serious disrespect flying around on here. That's the beauty of these comment sections though.
33
@30: That's like saying paying taxes to fund the Iraq war makes each member personally responsible for everyone who dies over there. NO ONE IS RESPONSIBLE BUT THE SHOOTER, WHY IS THIS SO HARD TO GRASP?
35
@33: That analogy makes no sense whatsoever.
As far as responsibility how about the venue and promoter who, when told there would be violence at the show they scheduled said "lol ok whatever" and kept on counting money at the door?
As far as responsibility how about the venue and promoter who, when told there would be violence at the show they scheduled said "lol ok whatever" and kept on counting money at the door?
36
Of course someone was responsible, the people who contributed to the gang activity that this article points to as a possible issue. Many hip-hop performers promote this gang activity, so therefore they should be held responsible. If some certain show or promoter is going to attract violence to a venue, it is stupid to let them perform regardless of their ability.
37
Considering the police crackdown on Pike/Pine nightclubs - and especially Chop Suey - I would think that security at these clubs should be better than its ever benn. Given the crackdowns any club that hasn't improved their security is dumb. Unfortunately for Chop Suey, now that gunfire and a death has happened there, It's likely the Mayor will oppose their liquor license and that'll be it.
38
"If some certain show or promoter is going to attract violence to a venue, it is stupid to let them perform regardless of their ability."
Yep, this is probably going to turn out like all the Sugar violence.
Yep, this is probably going to turn out like all the Sugar violence.
39
@35: I doubt anyone was saying "lol ok whatever" except for your stereotyping ass. If you're going to put blame on someone not involved over rumors, then there's really nothing I can say to convince you. You act like you have a crystal ball to violent acts committed by 3rd parties.
There is a chance of you being shot, run over, robbed, or all of the above just by going outside. Are you going to swear off going outside?
There is a chance of you being shot, run over, robbed, or all of the above just by going outside. Are you going to swear off going outside?
40
@33 absolving the people who convinced the shooter to shoot is very irresponsible and does not deal with the core issue, which is that gangs are self-perpetuating and only dissolve when there is no reason for them to exist, ergo clubs should be more responsible about allowing a show to go on when violence is a possibility.
41
@39 I would not go outside if someone called me and told me and tipped me off that someone would shoot me if I stepped out my door. I would wait a while first, call the cops, etc.
43
@39 I won't swear off going outside, but I will swear off going inside Southcenter Mall or Chop Suey on hip hop night.
44
@40: You're telling me the club told him to shoot? Management phoned up and said "Please shoot my club up"?
45
@41 That situation is much different than if you are a promoter or venue owner who was warned that violence might occur at your show. Imagine if you cancelled the show and 400 or 500 people showed up to find out the show was cancelled. Not a good scenario. Neither situation would be good to be in.
47
Its just unfortunate. Nothing needs to be done. Nothing needs to change. I feel for the people that got hurt. Truth is this stuff cannot be prevented. 9 percent unemployment got people fighting harder for scarce resources.
48
@45 you assume it was a last minute tip-off, I do not. From the article it sounds like there was at least time for one of the performers to arrange security for themselves.
49
My point is that even if you cancelled, you're just delaying the inevitable. There is always some sort of personal grudge that someone somewhere has, and all they need is to be is unstable enough to pull out a gun. If this hadn't gone down tonight and gone down at the next one, you'd all be saying the same thing anyway. So what do you want? Cancel all shows?
51
oh yeah btw capitol hill wannabe pussies that been to a blue scholars show and think you know hip hop can shut the fuck up. dont even comment.
52
Come on now. Pretending that there aren't more violence and killing with guns happening in association with the hip hop genre than with any other genre is just not believable. The music doesn't cause the violence, but people who use violence are attracted to and sometimes involved with this musical genre. It doesn't help the conversation and it certainly doesn't help the hip hop musice to become less associated with violence to deny that violence happens more with hip hop music events than any other type of music events.
53
It's just a coincidence. There are shootings all the time at indie rock shows, alt-country shows, etc. Oh wait, never mind.
54
@49 Not all shows, but I think canceling all of the shows by whoever the fuck these dudes are would be a good start.
55
if you want some insight into the immature stupidity of the people putting on and going to this show, check out this thread at http://www.206proof.com/forum/comments.p…
Check out these groups myspace pages. North-end vs. Central area feud. Fatal Luciano and Young Soprano.
What a bunch of wanna be's. Hip hop has become a cartoon. Unfortunate the bullets still work.
Check out these groups myspace pages. North-end vs. Central area feud. Fatal Luciano and Young Soprano.
What a bunch of wanna be's. Hip hop has become a cartoon. Unfortunate the bullets still work.
56
@52: It only gets associated because people like you decide to associate the two. I bet you say the same about Marilyn Manson and company. I could make the same generalization about country music in that all their listeners are redneck, racist hillbillies.
57
"That's like saying paying taxes to fund the Iraq war makes each member personally responsible for everyone who dies over there."
Um... bingo!
We've got to stop this cycle of violence, this is a wakeup call. We, as a city, need to put aside our differences, get together under one rainbow roof, and have a fund raiser. Things might have turned out very differently if we had just listened to our hearts, banded together, and gotten these poor shooters the penis extensions they so obviously need.
Um... bingo!
We've got to stop this cycle of violence, this is a wakeup call. We, as a city, need to put aside our differences, get together under one rainbow roof, and have a fund raiser. Things might have turned out very differently if we had just listened to our hearts, banded together, and gotten these poor shooters the penis extensions they so obviously need.
58
bedroomstomper - Give us a break, the unemployment rate in the Seattle area is 5%, not 9%.
Can anyone name the last time there was a shooting at a show that wasn't hip-hop related? Like where are all the shootings at the Moore Theater, the Tractor, Sunset Tavern, Crocodile (RIP)?
Can anyone name the last time there was a shooting at a show that wasn't hip-hop related? Like where are all the shootings at the Moore Theater, the Tractor, Sunset Tavern, Crocodile (RIP)?
59
hong kong pooey, the problem on a larger scale is economic. you obviously are a cap hill kid that chooses the hard life instead of the privelaged one you were born with
64
@59 i see, so when you have no job you pop your head into the back door of a club and shoot at people, interesting
68
64 you got it all wrong.
Its unfortunate that this shit happened but It aint ever gonna stop.
People get shot.
The LARGER PROBLEM is the values of our country, the fact that kids are not properly parented, and our city having a terrible public schooling system.
Its unfortunate that this shit happened but It aint ever gonna stop.
People get shot.
The LARGER PROBLEM is the values of our country, the fact that kids are not properly parented, and our city having a terrible public schooling system.
69
@67 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_or…
@68 you seem to be blaming more things than I do for this, and that we should just accept the fact that we can be shot instead of trying to lower the possibility of that happening
@68 you seem to be blaming more things than I do for this, and that we should just accept the fact that we can be shot instead of trying to lower the possibility of that happening
70
"So what do you want? Cancel all shows?"
From this promoter? Sure.
Regarding the Capitol Hill massacre: You're talking about something that had no security, but unlike these events actually had no precedent.
From this promoter? Sure.
Regarding the Capitol Hill massacre: You're talking about something that had no security, but unlike these events actually had no precedent.
71
"Check out these groups myspace pages. North-end vs. Central area feud. Fatal Luciano and Young Soprano. "
Awesome, club owners should go out of our way to cancel any shows involving these crews.
Awesome, club owners should go out of our way to cancel any shows involving these crews.
72
TO ALL U DUMB MUTHAFUCCAZ SPEAKIN ON SHIT FROM A STANDPOINT OF NOT KNOWING WHAT THA FUCC IS GOIN ON SHUT THA FUCC UP! THERE ARE PEOPLE FIGHTING FOR THERE LIFE RIGHT NOW POINT BLANK!
73
The problem with citing the capitol hill massacre of 2006 as an example of a violent shooting at a non-hip hop music event is that this is the only violent shooting at a rave party in Seattle in the 20 or so years that Rave music events have been happening in Seattle. It also didn't happen at a club, it happened at a private home with no security checkpoint to getting in.
There's been far more than one violent shooting at hip hop music event in Seattle.
The problem with citing the Folklife incident last year as an example of a shooting happening at a non-hip hop music event is that this is the only shooting incident I have heard of happening at Folklife in the 30 years of that event's existence. It also is not a club with security but an outdoor event that has no security checkpoint.
There's been far more than one violent shooting at a hip hop music event in the last 30 years in Seattle.
I am not trying to blame the hip hop music because no, the music itself does not cause people to shoot guns.
But it's not helping to say that the violence that does happen at certain hip hop music events is somehow magically random and doesn't happen any more at hip hop music events than at any other type of music events. That doesn't mean that all types of hip hop music events are the same. But I would think the violent shootings that have been and will probably continue to happen at certain types of hip hop music events is unacceptable and needs to be stopped.
What do you think?
There's been far more than one violent shooting at hip hop music event in Seattle.
The problem with citing the Folklife incident last year as an example of a shooting happening at a non-hip hop music event is that this is the only shooting incident I have heard of happening at Folklife in the 30 years of that event's existence. It also is not a club with security but an outdoor event that has no security checkpoint.
There's been far more than one violent shooting at a hip hop music event in the last 30 years in Seattle.
I am not trying to blame the hip hop music because no, the music itself does not cause people to shoot guns.
But it's not helping to say that the violence that does happen at certain hip hop music events is somehow magically random and doesn't happen any more at hip hop music events than at any other type of music events. That doesn't mean that all types of hip hop music events are the same. But I would think the violent shootings that have been and will probably continue to happen at certain types of hip hop music events is unacceptable and needs to be stopped.
What do you think?
74
@55
SINCE WHEN HAS THE NORTH END BEEN BEEFIN WIT THE CD? THE NORTH END AINT HOOD LIKE THAT IM SORRY~!
if you want some insight into the immature stupidity of the people putting on and going to this show, check out this thread at http://www.206proof.com/forum/comments.p…
Check out these groups myspace pages. North-end vs. Central area feud. Fatal Luciano and Young Soprano.
SINCE WHEN HAS THE NORTH END BEEN BEEFIN WIT THE CD? THE NORTH END AINT HOOD LIKE THAT IM SORRY~!
if you want some insight into the immature stupidity of the people putting on and going to this show, check out this thread at http://www.206proof.com/forum/comments.p…
Check out these groups myspace pages. North-end vs. Central area feud. Fatal Luciano and Young Soprano.
75
First and foremost prayers to the victims and their families. I've been in that back hallway countless times and this situation is a performers worst nightmare.
There are damn near 10 fucking local hip hop shows a week in this town that go down without a single hiccup. Kids are getting shot on the doorsteps of schools in this town lately and you wanna stop concerts? Y'all are ridiculous. There are some serious problems with gun violence in this town period. There is plenty of blame to go around, but do not point a finger at the guys on stage until all the details surface.
There are damn near 10 fucking local hip hop shows a week in this town that go down without a single hiccup. Kids are getting shot on the doorsteps of schools in this town lately and you wanna stop concerts? Y'all are ridiculous. There are some serious problems with gun violence in this town period. There is plenty of blame to go around, but do not point a finger at the guys on stage until all the details surface.
76
"THERE ARE PEOPLE FIGHTING FOR THERE LIFE RIGHT NOW POINT BLANK!"
I think that's the problem right hurr.
I think that's the problem right hurr.
78
That really the best photo you can get? There's like 15 cop cars out front cordoning off the whole block. This is a photo of an empty street with a bunch of lights like 2 miles away. Doesn't some Stranger staffer live closer?
80
Excellent - one little hiccup in the economy and it's the 80s, all over again. Good times, good times.
On the plus side, this will really help with the gentrification of the Central District. You thought "white flight" was quick before? Just think how fast it'll happen when folks can walk away from their upside-down mortgages with government help.
On the plus side, this will really help with the gentrification of the Central District. You thought "white flight" was quick before? Just think how fast it'll happen when folks can walk away from their upside-down mortgages with government help.
81
Music... reflects reality for some and is a hammer that shapes reality for others. The question of "is this shooting related to hip hop music?" should not be the question your asking.
Hip hop started out in the South Bronx in the 1970's by black & latino youth who took what they had and used it to change the world. The elements of DJ'ing, breakdancing, emceeing and graffiti art were unified and called "Hip Hop" by a guy named Afrika Bambataa who helped unify the gangs in a neighborhood that was so tore up it was referred to as "Planet Rock"
You might not know this story, because over the last 30 years Hip Hop has been assimilated and become Pop Culture... the architects of a movement (Hip Hop) that was founded on Peace, Love, Unity and Having Fun... might not be who you associate with Hip Hop anymore.
One could argue that Arnold Schwarzenegger is as Hip Hop as a lot of these clowns rapping on TV today... but nobodys blaming any killings on The Terminator. The mainstream, pop culture, it makes these rappers the same way it made him, they are manufactured by an industry Hip Hop does not control... and if you don't fit the mold you don't have a chance within that machine. google the movie "Before The Music Dies" this is not a conspiracy theory
So when you blame these shootings on Hip Hop, it feels like a slap in the face to everything positive that we do. And what's really important to us? as emcees? As protectors of true Hip Hop Culture?
Is that right now, here in Seattle, funding is being cut from the programs that actually help the youth in our community. There's less alternatives for positive things that youth can do when they get out of school. I work at an alternative high school in the southend right now, where THE SCHOOL doesn't have funding to hire an arts teacher, and the students need an arts credit to graduate.
In the last few months i know over 10 kids that have been shot. None of them were at a concert.
Police brutality is a huge issue in our neighborhoods. No matter what age you are. We do not feel like they are there to protect us.
It makes sense to me why a child growing up in this environment would turn to a gang. It has nothing to do with Hip Hop.
We live in the same conditions that Hip Hop was created in, and you are not helping by blaming the music.
Criminalizing the youth doesn't help either. I think we have youth right here in Seattle that might be falling through the cracks, that are brighter than Afrika Bambataa was, that have so much to offer the entire globe.
What can you offer these youth?
that should be the question...
and if you need more insight as to what Hip Hop really is... i suggest Jeff Chang's book "Can't Stop, Won't Stop"
More...
Hip hop started out in the South Bronx in the 1970's by black & latino youth who took what they had and used it to change the world. The elements of DJ'ing, breakdancing, emceeing and graffiti art were unified and called "Hip Hop" by a guy named Afrika Bambataa who helped unify the gangs in a neighborhood that was so tore up it was referred to as "Planet Rock"
You might not know this story, because over the last 30 years Hip Hop has been assimilated and become Pop Culture... the architects of a movement (Hip Hop) that was founded on Peace, Love, Unity and Having Fun... might not be who you associate with Hip Hop anymore.
One could argue that Arnold Schwarzenegger is as Hip Hop as a lot of these clowns rapping on TV today... but nobodys blaming any killings on The Terminator. The mainstream, pop culture, it makes these rappers the same way it made him, they are manufactured by an industry Hip Hop does not control... and if you don't fit the mold you don't have a chance within that machine. google the movie "Before The Music Dies" this is not a conspiracy theory
So when you blame these shootings on Hip Hop, it feels like a slap in the face to everything positive that we do. And what's really important to us? as emcees? As protectors of true Hip Hop Culture?
Is that right now, here in Seattle, funding is being cut from the programs that actually help the youth in our community. There's less alternatives for positive things that youth can do when they get out of school. I work at an alternative high school in the southend right now, where THE SCHOOL doesn't have funding to hire an arts teacher, and the students need an arts credit to graduate.
In the last few months i know over 10 kids that have been shot. None of them were at a concert.
Police brutality is a huge issue in our neighborhoods. No matter what age you are. We do not feel like they are there to protect us.
It makes sense to me why a child growing up in this environment would turn to a gang. It has nothing to do with Hip Hop.
We live in the same conditions that Hip Hop was created in, and you are not helping by blaming the music.
Criminalizing the youth doesn't help either. I think we have youth right here in Seattle that might be falling through the cracks, that are brighter than Afrika Bambataa was, that have so much to offer the entire globe.
What can you offer these youth?
that should be the question...
and if you need more insight as to what Hip Hop really is... i suggest Jeff Chang's book "Can't Stop, Won't Stop"
84
i don't have the answers...
i just work with youth in the southend and the c.d. and can't sleep at night because i remember being 15 and not thinking i would live to see 18, and now i look at some of my youth and they have the same look in they're eyes that i used to have. and i know what i can do
you have to ask yourself what you can do
if you can't think of anything you can do to help these youth... stop knocking the people that actually do care about us
i just work with youth in the southend and the c.d. and can't sleep at night because i remember being 15 and not thinking i would live to see 18, and now i look at some of my youth and they have the same look in they're eyes that i used to have. and i know what i can do
you have to ask yourself what you can do
if you can't think of anything you can do to help these youth... stop knocking the people that actually do care about us
85
Hip hop music and culture is BORN from these people. Of course it attracts them and of course it encourages it, the music is a product of the violence. Yes, you can listen to hip hop and not be violent, but you must understand that music born from a culture will attract and retain and glorify that culture.
86
wow. 85 comments and none of them worth reading. this string reads like a teenage youtube channel page. the same four breathless bloggers whining both sides of a stupid issue.
87
I live at Union and Fourteenth. The night before, there was a shooting up the street at Twentythird and Union. Now, last night, this. It's the guns. There are too many.
89
in agreement with "52", what suggestions productive measures to people have for ceasing the violence. please do not say "ban firearms" or "ban hip hop" et al because none of these are solutions - rather they are associating and assigning blame [as others have mentioned.
the question is not who/what/where we can blame for the occurence of this violence, it is what measures can be done to stop these ongoing situations from occuring?
the question is not who/what/where we can blame for the occurence of this violence, it is what measures can be done to stop these ongoing situations from occuring?
90
Uh... http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Conte…
In any case, there is a happy medium between the "what problem? there's no problem!" and the "black people scare me!" stances adopted in a lot of the comments here. I think it'd be somewhat productive for the communities involved to get cracking on a solution before Nickels rules by fiat in the last few months he has in office.
In any case, there is a happy medium between the "what problem? there's no problem!" and the "black people scare me!" stances adopted in a lot of the comments here. I think it'd be somewhat productive for the communities involved to get cracking on a solution before Nickels rules by fiat in the last few months he has in office.
91
@81, thanks for your comments. You far more articulately voiced my own opinion which is basically, "What the hell happened?" in terms of hip-hop. I know for a fact I was one of the first white kids -- hell, any color kid -- in my little Indiana town to be listening to Afrika B, F5F, Kurtis Blow, etc., because I'd gone to school for a semester in NYC and fell in love with the hip-hop shows there.
And then something happened. The leading voices of hip-hop turned gangsta, misogynistic, unimaginative. I lost interest and, in fact, grew revolted by the movement.
Today, there are glimmers of hope. The "Street Sounds" program on KEXP should earn MacArthur Genius Grants for Riz and B-Mello. Some local acts already mentioned here do amazing work in the genre.
But given the violence today I'll be goddamned if I'd ever suggest a kid go to a local hip-hop show -- and my own fond memories of what it was like to dance to to that wonderful music back in 1984, makes that a crying shame.
And then something happened. The leading voices of hip-hop turned gangsta, misogynistic, unimaginative. I lost interest and, in fact, grew revolted by the movement.
Today, there are glimmers of hope. The "Street Sounds" program on KEXP should earn MacArthur Genius Grants for Riz and B-Mello. Some local acts already mentioned here do amazing work in the genre.
But given the violence today I'll be goddamned if I'd ever suggest a kid go to a local hip-hop show -- and my own fond memories of what it was like to dance to to that wonderful music back in 1984, makes that a crying shame.
92
Why hasn't rap (or hiphop or whatever the fuck they're calling that shit) faded away by now? That "genre" has been on life support for at least thirty years.
It's shit music, made by idiots, with an audience of violent assholes. Its been corporatized beyond belief, with most of the songs seeming to be nothing but recitations of brand names.
I think they should just have these hiphop nights at the fucking King County Jail. Then they can check everybody on the way out, and whoever has an oustanding warrant gets to stay. It would be a great way to keep these violent retards off the streets.
It's shit music, made by idiots, with an audience of violent assholes. Its been corporatized beyond belief, with most of the songs seeming to be nothing but recitations of brand names.
I think they should just have these hiphop nights at the fucking King County Jail. Then they can check everybody on the way out, and whoever has an oustanding warrant gets to stay. It would be a great way to keep these violent retards off the streets.
93
I saw the headline for this post and immediately thought "Oh, did they have a hip hop show?"
There's no way around the fact that odds are, if there's a shooting at a show in Seattle, it's a hip hop show.
There's no way around the fact that odds are, if there's a shooting at a show in Seattle, it's a hip hop show.
95
@85 "Hip hop music and culture is BORN from these people. Of course it attracts them and of course it encourages it, the music is a product of the violence. Yes, you can listen to hip hop and not be violent, but you must understand that music born from a culture will attract and retain and glorify that culture."
"These people" are BORN from the streets, the same streets you walk down, only theirs aren't tree-lined and full of mixed-use retail spaces. The music isn't a product of the violence; it is a reflection of a way of life that you cannot imagine because you're not poor, you're parents didn't leave you when you were a baby, you didn't go to a school where you're more likely to hear guns ring than bullets, or grow up in a place where drugs and prostitution are more common than the latte you start your day with.
The violence isn't the fault of hip hop music. The violence is a result of the failings of our society, which hip hop reminds us of with each Mobb Deep banger, with each tattoo The Game gets on his face.
As for Seattle's scene, there are plenty of positive hip hop acts, way more than the gangster shit here. Before all of you get your skinny jeans in a twist, check out Blue Scholars, Common Market, Canary Sing, Grayskul, Boom Bap, Abssyninian, etc.
"These people" are BORN from the streets, the same streets you walk down, only theirs aren't tree-lined and full of mixed-use retail spaces. The music isn't a product of the violence; it is a reflection of a way of life that you cannot imagine because you're not poor, you're parents didn't leave you when you were a baby, you didn't go to a school where you're more likely to hear guns ring than bullets, or grow up in a place where drugs and prostitution are more common than the latte you start your day with.
The violence isn't the fault of hip hop music. The violence is a result of the failings of our society, which hip hop reminds us of with each Mobb Deep banger, with each tattoo The Game gets on his face.
As for Seattle's scene, there are plenty of positive hip hop acts, way more than the gangster shit here. Before all of you get your skinny jeans in a twist, check out Blue Scholars, Common Market, Canary Sing, Grayskul, Boom Bap, Abssyninian, etc.
96
@91 not all local hiphop shows are alike. You can often tell by promoter&lineup if there's a likelihood of violence, and just skip those shows - there is absolutely no need to avoid all local hiphop just because a few have seen violence. The vast majority of local hiphop shows in Seattle are peaceful.
97
@92. "Why hasn't rap (or hiphop or whatever the fuck they're calling that shit) faded away by now? That "genre" has been on life support for at least thirty years."
What the fuck are you talking about? Hip hop is the most popular music in the country now, having surpassed country music just recently. Lil' Wayne is now a figment of our consciousness. 50 is slanging vitamin water. Ice Cube is now doing freaking kids movies. Hip hop is a prevalent part of America's culture.
"It's shit music, made by idiots, with an audience of violent assholes. Its been corporatized beyond belief, with most of the songs seeming to be nothing but recitations of brand names."
Again, WTF!? I've been going to hip hop shows my entire life, first in Queens (the second birthplace of hip hop) where I grew up, then in LA and now in Seattle, and I've only seen one fight. Here, actually, at a Kanye show when, ironically, he was performing "Jesus Walks," a song about his love for Jesus.
"I think they should just have these hiphop nights at the fucking King County Jail. Then they can check everybody on the way out, and whoever has an oustanding warrant gets to stay. It would be a great way to keep these violent retards off the streets."
Or we could start at the root of the problem, the neighborhoods where the kids grow up in, the schools where they learn more about the streets than about books, the parents that don't have the skills or the money to raise them properly. This is the problem here-- not hip hop.
What the fuck are you talking about? Hip hop is the most popular music in the country now, having surpassed country music just recently. Lil' Wayne is now a figment of our consciousness. 50 is slanging vitamin water. Ice Cube is now doing freaking kids movies. Hip hop is a prevalent part of America's culture.
"It's shit music, made by idiots, with an audience of violent assholes. Its been corporatized beyond belief, with most of the songs seeming to be nothing but recitations of brand names."
Again, WTF!? I've been going to hip hop shows my entire life, first in Queens (the second birthplace of hip hop) where I grew up, then in LA and now in Seattle, and I've only seen one fight. Here, actually, at a Kanye show when, ironically, he was performing "Jesus Walks," a song about his love for Jesus.
"I think they should just have these hiphop nights at the fucking King County Jail. Then they can check everybody on the way out, and whoever has an oustanding warrant gets to stay. It would be a great way to keep these violent retards off the streets."
Or we could start at the root of the problem, the neighborhoods where the kids grow up in, the schools where they learn more about the streets than about books, the parents that don't have the skills or the money to raise them properly. This is the problem here-- not hip hop.
99
I have to agree with "gritz" (I believe I know who you are) and as someone who has had extensive ties with the nightclub scene in my younger days, this is the death knell. New owners better look at opening up a doughnut operation or something.
101
In scientific studies, the distinction between correlation and causality matters. It doesn't here though - at hiphop events, more shots are fired per attendee than at other events. Who cares whether it's merely a correlation? enough to keep me away.
102
Thank you, # 81. And to all the "these people" and "violent retards" and "it's shit music, made by idiots", WAKE UP. Hip hop is like any other genre of music, it covers a whole range from crap to genius. Wilco or Ozzy? Both might be considered "rock & roll". Which is about as generic a term for music as "hip hop"
And yes, I will say ban guns, #89, given that in places where guns are banned or hard to get, there are fewer deaths. Maybe just as much violence, but not so much for keeps. Duh.
And yes, I will say ban guns, #89, given that in places where guns are banned or hard to get, there are fewer deaths. Maybe just as much violence, but not so much for keeps. Duh.
103
http://www.206proof.com/forum/comments.p… is hilarious. From his Seattle name recognition, one would never guess that Dave Meinert is 12 years old.
105
"And yes, I will say ban guns, #89, given that in places where guns are banned or hard to get, there are fewer deaths."
Yeah, that sure worked great in Washington DC. Duh indeed!
Yeah, that sure worked great in Washington DC. Duh indeed!
107
sounds like a lot of race issues need to be resolved before you can randomly post comments about the state of NW hip-hop (aka 'they're black')
108
The shooter deserves a mother and a father... or else he turned out this way because he had gay parents. I always get mixed up.
109
@81 & @91 -- a big part of what happened to hip-hop in the early 90s was a series of legal decisions that made the sort of wall of sound sampling practiced by groups like NWA and Public Enemy effectively impossible. At the end of that mess, samples as short as two notes required not just payment to the original record company, but they approval. IMO, hip hop has sucked donkey balls ever since.
110
I stopped reading Slog regularly a few months ago, and was hotlinked to this article. Glad to see you commenters have gotten even more stupid, simple minded and racist since I left.
111
Just out of curiosity,
what music do you downtown over privledge white kids listen to when you put on rain slickers, arm yourselves with AK47's, and shootdown everyone in your highschool for picking on you after your flatassed girlfriends breakup with you for losing your job and starbucks?
my guess is "Fallout boy" or something.
what music do you downtown over privledge white kids listen to when you put on rain slickers, arm yourselves with AK47's, and shootdown everyone in your highschool for picking on you after your flatassed girlfriends breakup with you for losing your job and starbucks?
my guess is "Fallout boy" or something.
113
omg remember that horrible shooting at that one show!
we have to do things to keep our sheltered white people safe.
it was some gangster hip hop "music" show i'm sure....
oh wait, it was seattle folk life.
well guess that means no more bob dylan white people.
sorry.
we have to do things to keep our sheltered white people safe.
it was some gangster hip hop "music" show i'm sure....
oh wait, it was seattle folk life.
well guess that means no more bob dylan white people.
sorry.
114
@103 - the "Dave Meinert" on the Proof isn't actually the Dave Meinert you know. It's a spoof written by, probably, a 12 year old.
115
& PS - just so the racial implications can go away, from what I'm hearing the shooter was white. Dumbasses come in every color.
117
Gomez@ 110
Shut up you unemployed, fat, single, busted-ass-teeth misanthrope.
Just because all you have going in your life is being inordinately arrogant on the Internet to make up for obvious and significant inferiority issues does not make us worse off than you.
PS YOUR BLOG FUCKING SUCKS
http://gomezticator.livejournal.com/
Shut up you unemployed, fat, single, busted-ass-teeth misanthrope.
Just because all you have going in your life is being inordinately arrogant on the Internet to make up for obvious and significant inferiority issues does not make us worse off than you.
PS YOUR BLOG FUCKING SUCKS
http://gomezticator.livejournal.com/
118
Thanks goes to all the wanna-be gangsta defenders coming over from 206Proof, helping to prove the following point: the best way to avoid getting shot in Seattle is to stay far away from any show promoted on your message board. Thanks for the heads-up!
121
To 105:
"Critics, citing numerous statistics, have questioned the efficiency of these restrictions. The combination in Washington of strict gun-restriction laws and high levels of gun violence is sometimes used to criticize gun-restriction laws in general as ineffective. However, a significant portion of firearms used in crime are either obtained on the second-hand market or in neighboring states.[39][40] Results from the ATF's Youth Crime Gun Interdiction Initiative indicate that the percentage of imported guns involved in crimes is tied to the stringency of local firearm laws.[39]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Wa….
"Critics, citing numerous statistics, have questioned the efficiency of these restrictions. The combination in Washington of strict gun-restriction laws and high levels of gun violence is sometimes used to criticize gun-restriction laws in general as ineffective. However, a significant portion of firearms used in crime are either obtained on the second-hand market or in neighboring states.[39][40] Results from the ATF's Youth Crime Gun Interdiction Initiative indicate that the percentage of imported guns involved in crimes is tied to the stringency of local firearm laws.[39]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Wa….
122
The cycle of violence started long before people started rhyming over a drum loop.
You want to treat the symptom and not the disease.
You want to treat the symptom and not the disease.
124
Thanks goes to all the wanna-be gangsta defenders coming over from 206Proof, helping to prove the following point: the best way to avoid getting shot in Seattle is to stay far away from any show promoted on your message board. Thanks for the heads-up!
If you knew how many hip hop shows you've gone to that have been promoted through that website you'd be kicking yourself in the ass.
BLAME THE FUCKING SHOOTER NOT HIP HOP. You want me to blame techno music for all the ecstacy overdoses? the cap hill massacre?
there are hip hop events going on in this city on the regular without people getting blasted. open your fucking eyes.
If you knew how many hip hop shows you've gone to that have been promoted through that website you'd be kicking yourself in the ass.
BLAME THE FUCKING SHOOTER NOT HIP HOP. You want me to blame techno music for all the ecstacy overdoses? the cap hill massacre?
there are hip hop events going on in this city on the regular without people getting blasted. open your fucking eyes.
127
hip hop is mirror of its culture. not the engine that drives it. except when it is - lyrics that model conflict resolution for aggrieved testosterone-addled egos.
Seattle is at a tipping point in importing a gang-feud culture from SoCal. we're already an area with a long-standing love for firearms: the only gun-carriers i know are WA state natives.
and Joey Tunez, way to broad-brush "white" music: fall out boy & bob dylan. educate yourself & discover the musical heritage of america.
Seattle is at a tipping point in importing a gang-feud culture from SoCal. we're already an area with a long-standing love for firearms: the only gun-carriers i know are WA state natives.
and Joey Tunez, way to broad-brush "white" music: fall out boy & bob dylan. educate yourself & discover the musical heritage of america.
128
@11: I hear ya. That sucks. I have walked between cc's and the Madison Pub countless times myself, without comments.
Having said that, what REALLY sucks is one person is dead and two more are fighting for their lives
Having said that, what REALLY sucks is one person is dead and two more are fighting for their lives
129
Check out the braintrust makin' the world safe for the widows and orphans!
Blame gamers: Let me play through, I won't get in your way and this will only take a second.
To Seattle Hip Hop, there are still victims and victims' families with actual suffering that can be immediately addressed. Anyone who knows me and happens to give a shit, let's focus on this. Get with me on email or phone about it.
Blame gamers: Let me play through, I won't get in your way and this will only take a second.
To Seattle Hip Hop, there are still victims and victims' families with actual suffering that can be immediately addressed. Anyone who knows me and happens to give a shit, let's focus on this. Get with me on email or phone about it.
130
So check this out, as someone who was at the event since early in the night, and knows what unfolded and helped on of the vitims I can say this:
1. The victim who died had nothing to do with the issues that brought this down.
2. The victim who was critically wounded did nothing more than just open the back door of the club as a shooter pounded on the door so he opened it and when he did someone opened fired.
3. The promoter was not aware of any issues prior to the show as they did not unfold till the show began having people show up.
Now, with that being said, it is not hip hop or the promoter that is the issue, it is venues who cut back on cost and employees that do following or allow the following.
1. The night was slow in the begging, so as I watched the door half the staff was relieved and sent home. (This is a assumption but I am aware of such business practices). But when I came in the door there were twice as many people at the door checking IDs and patting people down, taking money and checking the list. Where did they go?
2. Where were the floor security? I saw 1 employee sitting on his rear all night hardly secureing the floor.
3. Where was the staff that is supposed to secure that back door. He was there earlier in the night. But then he was not there when the shooting occurred. If he was the Host for the night would not of been shot when he opened what is supposed to be a secure door.
4. And lastly, I personally went to the door man and asked, "you guys are patting people down good tonight right, big baggy clothes can really conceal small objects and hand guns, I am just concerned with my safety". At that time the door man said oh yes we are patting down everyone. Not 40 mins later, I observed a number of people walking in and out of the club with no one stopping them or asking them to even see a stamp. Including the suspect I saw them put into a car after the shooting.
So my question is, who is to blame? The promoter who is throwing a event tomorrow that opposes violence and is raising money for a young man who passed away from gunfire as a by stander. Or is it the artist who were on stage putting on some pretty decent shows for the evening and were all walking around smiling and hugging people in the crowd, networking and not "Beefing" with anyone. Or was it my fault for being their and support local music and artist whether its hip hop, rock, jazz or R&B....
This you may want to ponder when you are quick to blame people, events, or music....
More...
1. The victim who died had nothing to do with the issues that brought this down.
2. The victim who was critically wounded did nothing more than just open the back door of the club as a shooter pounded on the door so he opened it and when he did someone opened fired.
3. The promoter was not aware of any issues prior to the show as they did not unfold till the show began having people show up.
Now, with that being said, it is not hip hop or the promoter that is the issue, it is venues who cut back on cost and employees that do following or allow the following.
1. The night was slow in the begging, so as I watched the door half the staff was relieved and sent home. (This is a assumption but I am aware of such business practices). But when I came in the door there were twice as many people at the door checking IDs and patting people down, taking money and checking the list. Where did they go?
2. Where were the floor security? I saw 1 employee sitting on his rear all night hardly secureing the floor.
3. Where was the staff that is supposed to secure that back door. He was there earlier in the night. But then he was not there when the shooting occurred. If he was the Host for the night would not of been shot when he opened what is supposed to be a secure door.
4. And lastly, I personally went to the door man and asked, "you guys are patting people down good tonight right, big baggy clothes can really conceal small objects and hand guns, I am just concerned with my safety". At that time the door man said oh yes we are patting down everyone. Not 40 mins later, I observed a number of people walking in and out of the club with no one stopping them or asking them to even see a stamp. Including the suspect I saw them put into a car after the shooting.
So my question is, who is to blame? The promoter who is throwing a event tomorrow that opposes violence and is raising money for a young man who passed away from gunfire as a by stander. Or is it the artist who were on stage putting on some pretty decent shows for the evening and were all walking around smiling and hugging people in the crowd, networking and not "Beefing" with anyone. Or was it my fault for being their and support local music and artist whether its hip hop, rock, jazz or R&B....
This you may want to ponder when you are quick to blame people, events, or music....
131
that other message board is pretty interesting. it's funny how many people here think they are idiots, and many people there think "we" are idiots...
from one post...
The Central District and SOUTH END are at war right now and have been for a while. But we all already knew that. Or did you think that all these Southcenter shootings and CD shootings were random? Nope. Get a clue idiots.
uh, i don't want to be involved in any war between people IN KING COUNTY. this is not necessary. i don't want to be a bystander or an accidental victim.
This has nothing to do with the music and is just a random act of violence.
look, try to see it from the perspective of those not directly or indirectly involved. if there is a war, then a shooting isn't a random act of violence. you tell us to get a clue... a clue to what? if there's a "war" where are you fighting it? i don't want you to fight it, but if you must, at least i don't want other people who are not involved to become victims.
yes, random acts of violence can occur anywhere... folklife... a house party... dicks.... but don't tell me there's a war but that all the victim's are random. it just doesn't work like that.
of course it's not the music, or the cheeseburgers. but if whoever is in this war decides where to fight it. and whoever's not in this war doesn't want it to happen, and doesn't want a part in it.
from one post...
The Central District and SOUTH END are at war right now and have been for a while. But we all already knew that. Or did you think that all these Southcenter shootings and CD shootings were random? Nope. Get a clue idiots.
uh, i don't want to be involved in any war between people IN KING COUNTY. this is not necessary. i don't want to be a bystander or an accidental victim.
This has nothing to do with the music and is just a random act of violence.
look, try to see it from the perspective of those not directly or indirectly involved. if there is a war, then a shooting isn't a random act of violence. you tell us to get a clue... a clue to what? if there's a "war" where are you fighting it? i don't want you to fight it, but if you must, at least i don't want other people who are not involved to become victims.
yes, random acts of violence can occur anywhere... folklife... a house party... dicks.... but don't tell me there's a war but that all the victim's are random. it just doesn't work like that.
of course it's not the music, or the cheeseburgers. but if whoever is in this war decides where to fight it. and whoever's not in this war doesn't want it to happen, and doesn't want a part in it.
132
The PI is at the top of their form in their article:
"Two people who work in the area said their coworker was working at a nearby pub early Sunday and told them about the shooting. But that coworker did not see it, they said."
WTF?
"Two people who work in the area said their coworker was working at a nearby pub early Sunday and told them about the shooting. But that coworker did not see it, they said."
WTF?
133
We should build a wall around the city to keep the suburbanites and weekenders away.
Then we can invent a drug, let's call it 'Soma', to keep everyone in the city happy.
Then we can invent a drug, let's call it 'Soma', to keep everyone in the city happy.
134
Seattlerain -
I go to a lot of shows and I rarely see people get patted down. Why is that, are hip hop promoters racist? Or maybe they get that the crowd that goes to hip hop shows are more likely to engage in gunplay than people that go to indie-rock shows?
All of you guilty white liberals trying to deny this, "why someone got shot at Folklife!", know this and just lying to yourself.
I go to a lot of shows and I rarely see people get patted down. Why is that, are hip hop promoters racist? Or maybe they get that the crowd that goes to hip hop shows are more likely to engage in gunplay than people that go to indie-rock shows?
All of you guilty white liberals trying to deny this, "why someone got shot at Folklife!", know this and just lying to yourself.
135
Of course, violence in popular music isn't new. In fact, it has a long and tawdry history, which is generally attributed as having begun in the rock and roll turf wars of the mid '60's, which famously pitted the hardcore gangs of Detroit, lead by the MC5 and The Stooges, against those they perceived to be "Poseurs" and "Art Fags" on both coasts. These battles eventually manifested in several drive-by attacks on Andy Warhol's loft, which were specifically targeted at Lou Reed. On the west coast, attempts were also made to assassinate Jim Morrison of The Doors, who was particularly despised as an "auteur" by the increasingly violent blue collar crews of the mid-west. Jim Morrison famously referenced these attempts on his life in the song "One In Five" (Five to one, baby, one in five / no one here gets out alive).
Peace between the mid-west crews and the east coast posses was eventually achieved with the marriage of MC5 cofounder Fred "sonic" Smith and proto-punk godmother Patti Smith. Tensions between the mid-west and the "wild, wild west", as the west coast crews referred to themselves, continued to simmer through the mostly quiet '70's, only to erupt anew with the formation of the infamous Hollywood crews of the early eighties, led by the gangster driven sounds of Motley Crue. Overwhelmed by the several high profile shootings in California and Las Vegas, the once feared crews of the mid-west faded into oblivion, leaving only the aging and increasingly deranged Ted Nugent to rail against the "injustice" done to him and his on his obscure right-wing talk show broadcast from his " True Kingdom of Rock", located in rural Michigan.
Sadly, the legacy of Rock-n-Roll violence has permeated the once laconic and innocent hip-hop scene.
Peace between the mid-west crews and the east coast posses was eventually achieved with the marriage of MC5 cofounder Fred "sonic" Smith and proto-punk godmother Patti Smith. Tensions between the mid-west and the "wild, wild west", as the west coast crews referred to themselves, continued to simmer through the mostly quiet '70's, only to erupt anew with the formation of the infamous Hollywood crews of the early eighties, led by the gangster driven sounds of Motley Crue. Overwhelmed by the several high profile shootings in California and Las Vegas, the once feared crews of the mid-west faded into oblivion, leaving only the aging and increasingly deranged Ted Nugent to rail against the "injustice" done to him and his on his obscure right-wing talk show broadcast from his " True Kingdom of Rock", located in rural Michigan.
Sadly, the legacy of Rock-n-Roll violence has permeated the once laconic and innocent hip-hop scene.
137
haha i love how the people from 206 are coming here to defend local hip hop and promote how peaceful it is but all their posts read like this:
FUCC YALL HONKY MUTHAFUCKAS THIS SHIT AINT THE FAULT OF LOCAL HIP HOP AND ALL WHITE BYTCHEZ DONT KNOW SHIT ABOUT DICK WHEN IT COMES TO REPPIN THE CD
way to further your cause dudes.
FUCC YALL HONKY MUTHAFUCKAS THIS SHIT AINT THE FAULT OF LOCAL HIP HOP AND ALL WHITE BYTCHEZ DONT KNOW SHIT ABOUT DICK WHEN IT COMES TO REPPIN THE CD
way to further your cause dudes.
138
137 posts with most blamning or defending Music or Guns and or deriding the crowd in thinly veiled code. How about some suggestions to fix prolem and or prevent it from reoccuring?
Sloggers you are full of grondiose pronouncements how about some actual and meaningful policy recommendations?
Sloggers you are full of grondiose pronouncements how about some actual and meaningful policy recommendations?
139
close it down
thanks Mr. Mayor
some riff raff shit is one thing, typical nightlife stuff, murder is another, the only good thing here is that only one has died, three were targeted
what slime
thanks Mr. Mayor
some riff raff shit is one thing, typical nightlife stuff, murder is another, the only good thing here is that only one has died, three were targeted
what slime
140
"FUCC YALL HONKY MUTHAFUCKAS THIS SHIT AINT THE FAULT OF LOCAL HIP HOP AND ALL WHITE BYTCHEZ DONT KNOW SHIT ABOUT DICK WHEN IT COMES TO REPPIN THE CD"
srsly?
srsly?
141
@122: Very well said.
The casual racism in this city is really disgusting, and on full display in this thread.
The casual racism in this city is really disgusting, and on full display in this thread.
142
Seriously dude? Is that what you are hearing at the 206 proof site?
I, like you, followed the link there and saw what appears to be a very distressed group of people dealing with a severe blow to their community. Whats with all of the misplaced antagonism. It's obvious you were never going to a hip hop show so why get your chones in a bunch?
I, like you, followed the link there and saw what appears to be a very distressed group of people dealing with a severe blow to their community. Whats with all of the misplaced antagonism. It's obvious you were never going to a hip hop show so why get your chones in a bunch?
145
I love how these little nobodies pop in with crap like "the CD and the South End are at war"
No they aren't. The vast majority of normal people in both neighborhoods continue to be productive citizens. They go to work, they go to shows, they fall in love, they break up. They have kids. They pay bills. They do stuff.
It's these pathetic little doofuses, important to no one but themselves, unwanted and unloved, who are having some dumb little snit between themselves. Like school yard fights, but with guns. But to them, it's WAR!
Fuck that: As long as normal productive people aren't hurt, no one cares. If they were just killing themselves in the privacy of their own homes, it would be an appropriate end for these non-entities. But in their dumb little minds, it's a WAR!
Dumbasses. Their type always dies young, and no one cares. They were nothing more than an abortion that lived a little bit longer than normal.
I feel bad for the innocent bystanders, of course; They were penalized for their bad taste in music and poor judgement in entertainment options, but they didn't deserve to die or be maimed. But these "gangsters" - who cares? Just less mouths to feed.
No they aren't. The vast majority of normal people in both neighborhoods continue to be productive citizens. They go to work, they go to shows, they fall in love, they break up. They have kids. They pay bills. They do stuff.
It's these pathetic little doofuses, important to no one but themselves, unwanted and unloved, who are having some dumb little snit between themselves. Like school yard fights, but with guns. But to them, it's WAR!
Fuck that: As long as normal productive people aren't hurt, no one cares. If they were just killing themselves in the privacy of their own homes, it would be an appropriate end for these non-entities. But in their dumb little minds, it's a WAR!
Dumbasses. Their type always dies young, and no one cares. They were nothing more than an abortion that lived a little bit longer than normal.
I feel bad for the innocent bystanders, of course; They were penalized for their bad taste in music and poor judgement in entertainment options, but they didn't deserve to die or be maimed. But these "gangsters" - who cares? Just less mouths to feed.
147
there is a shocking amount of people here who appear to support the "hopefully they'll all just kill each other" idea
my heart goes out to everybody that went to the show to forget about life for a while
RIP
my heart goes out to everybody that went to the show to forget about life for a while
RIP
148
@143: What's your point? I'm honestly asking.
@145: You come of as a real asshole. You say "Their type always dies young, and no one cares" like it's a good thing. Get some empathy.
@145: You come of as a real asshole. You say "Their type always dies young, and no one cares" like it's a good thing. Get some empathy.
149
COMMENT DELETED: Spam
We'd rather not moderate your comments, but off-topic, gratuitously inflammatory, threatening, or otherwise inappropriate remarks may be removed, and repeat offenders may be banned from commenting. We never censor comments based on ideology. Thanks to all who add to the conversation on Slog.
We'd rather not moderate your comments, but off-topic, gratuitously inflammatory, threatening, or otherwise inappropriate remarks may be removed, and repeat offenders may be banned from commenting. We never censor comments based on ideology. Thanks to all who add to the conversation on Slog.
150
There are people on 206 saying they didn't go to the show because they had a bad feeling about the crowd ("I knew the type of people that go to this show"), obviously they're racist.
The fact is that there is a cultural problem around hiphip and violence and the sooner we acknowledge this and stop with the kneejerk "that's racist!!" the better off we'll be. It doesn't mean black people are evil, the Seattle hiphop scene is full of whites and asians and from what I've read the guy who died was white. It's a cultural problem, not a racial one.
The fact is that there is a cultural problem around hiphip and violence and the sooner we acknowledge this and stop with the kneejerk "that's racist!!" the better off we'll be. It doesn't mean black people are evil, the Seattle hiphop scene is full of whites and asians and from what I've read the guy who died was white. It's a cultural problem, not a racial one.
151
@148 my point is why are some hip-hop heads such big fucking pussies they have to bring a gun to make up for their loud mouths? If you can't preach what you say or believe in with your fists to back you up, then you need to step back and re-visualize the lie you are living.
152
See what happens when you use Chino-slang food slurs? Chop Suey indeed! Frankly I think the Chinese community should be up in arms over the use of words that to the casual observer scream "bad food".
It's a shame young men (sexist comment for those that care) shoot each other. The shooter and victims were male, right?
It's a shame young men (sexist comment for those that care) shoot each other. The shooter and victims were male, right?
153
COMMENT DELETED: Spam
We'd rather not moderate your comments, but off-topic, gratuitously inflammatory, threatening, or otherwise inappropriate remarks may be removed, and repeat offenders may be banned from commenting. We never censor comments based on ideology. Thanks to all who add to the conversation.
We'd rather not moderate your comments, but off-topic, gratuitously inflammatory, threatening, or otherwise inappropriate remarks may be removed, and repeat offenders may be banned from commenting. We never censor comments based on ideology. Thanks to all who add to the conversation.
154
@145 For the Win
I've followed this pathetic attempt by the hip hop crowd coming to SLOG to explain away their (various) ignorances.
Face it 206Proof crowd, your "culture" promotes this lifestyle. I haven't been to an opera, a country concert, a rave, a Burning Man party, a rockabilly concert, ad nauseum, and ONCE had violence with a weapon break out, especially violence of people coming to the venue specifically to carry out a vendetta.
Sure we can all name some various random event where some type of altercation broke out. You've come here attempting to point that out several times. The difference is, that those events don't encourage, talk about, sing about, glorify, or promote the very acts occurring at the events, and those events didn't involve weapons.
You come here and point out FolkFost unstable guy who fired a shot. Not comparable in the least. He was simply unstable and happened to be somewhere that set his mental state off. Compared to events that you and your ilk host, where it is deemed "cool" to carry, and to imbibe in the "gangsta" lifestyle, the FolkLife guy was simply a random nut.
This shooting has nothing to do with whether there was adequate security, staff, or a sensible promoter. It has to do with the overall "lifestyle" this sort of music allows to perpetuate.
All one has to do is review all the posts on 206Proof and look at how you all treat each other to understand my point.
We aren't making this shit up. It is high time all of you quit tryin' to represent "tha lifestyle", get a real education, a permanent career not involving music and poverty and start contributing to the solution.
I see many of you on your beloved forum asking "What next?"...
Well let me be the first on SLOG to tell you... Next?
How about trying to walk away from a lifestyle that perpetuates you from continuing down a similar path as your fellow friend.
More...
I've followed this pathetic attempt by the hip hop crowd coming to SLOG to explain away their (various) ignorances.
Face it 206Proof crowd, your "culture" promotes this lifestyle. I haven't been to an opera, a country concert, a rave, a Burning Man party, a rockabilly concert, ad nauseum, and ONCE had violence with a weapon break out, especially violence of people coming to the venue specifically to carry out a vendetta.
Sure we can all name some various random event where some type of altercation broke out. You've come here attempting to point that out several times. The difference is, that those events don't encourage, talk about, sing about, glorify, or promote the very acts occurring at the events, and those events didn't involve weapons.
You come here and point out FolkFost unstable guy who fired a shot. Not comparable in the least. He was simply unstable and happened to be somewhere that set his mental state off. Compared to events that you and your ilk host, where it is deemed "cool" to carry, and to imbibe in the "gangsta" lifestyle, the FolkLife guy was simply a random nut.
This shooting has nothing to do with whether there was adequate security, staff, or a sensible promoter. It has to do with the overall "lifestyle" this sort of music allows to perpetuate.
All one has to do is review all the posts on 206Proof and look at how you all treat each other to understand my point.
We aren't making this shit up. It is high time all of you quit tryin' to represent "tha lifestyle", get a real education, a permanent career not involving music and poverty and start contributing to the solution.
I see many of you on your beloved forum asking "What next?"...
Well let me be the first on SLOG to tell you... Next?
How about trying to walk away from a lifestyle that perpetuates you from continuing down a similar path as your fellow friend.
156
HI, BILLY MAYS BACK IN THE FUCKING SADDLE. DO YOU NEED A CORPSE SO YOU CAN FUCK WITH PEOPLE? WELL ONE JUST SHOWED UP AT THE STUDIO, IT'S EVEN GOT A FUCKING HEADSET. THIS FUCKING THING HAS CARPOOL LANE WRITTEN ALL OVER IT, IT'S A GREAT DOORSTOP, THING TO THROW AT JEHOVAH'S WITNESS FUCKERS, AND POSSIBLY THE FIRST CONSENTUAL SEX PARTNER YOU'VE EVER HAD, YOU SICK FUCK. THIS IS A VERY LIMITED OFFER SO GET THAT FAT FUCKING DIALING FINGER READY YOU FLESH PILE OF SHIT. CALL THE NUMBER ON YOUR SCREEN IMMEDIATELY AND I'LL THROW IN A SHAMWOW BECAUSE I DON'T WANT THIS PIECE OF SHIT ANYWAY.
157
A white gang kills a dude at a Stones show in Altamont and the upshot is a romanticized bad boy image for rock music.
A dude is shot at a hip hop show and it's time to start barricading the front door and stocking up on canned goods?
Sham 69 fans were putting darts in each others faces in Thatcher's Hersham and it's just "Boys will be boys".
A shooting outside a hip hop show and it's all hands on deck?
Venice 13 pretty much agitates the 80s L.A. punk scene into a decade long bloodbath and not one single article turns up in mainstream media.
A celebrity gets conked on the head with an ashtray outside a hip hop club and it's time to put the entire community on notice?
A bunch of Casuals from South London converge on Ibiza grime shows with boxcutters 2 to a face and it's just some rowdy kids sowing their wild oats.
Shooting in the parking lot by the Art Bar and it's time to consider black listing artists?
C'mon you guys. This is an old way of thinking.
A dude is shot at a hip hop show and it's time to start barricading the front door and stocking up on canned goods?
Sham 69 fans were putting darts in each others faces in Thatcher's Hersham and it's just "Boys will be boys".
A shooting outside a hip hop show and it's all hands on deck?
Venice 13 pretty much agitates the 80s L.A. punk scene into a decade long bloodbath and not one single article turns up in mainstream media.
A celebrity gets conked on the head with an ashtray outside a hip hop club and it's time to put the entire community on notice?
A bunch of Casuals from South London converge on Ibiza grime shows with boxcutters 2 to a face and it's just some rowdy kids sowing their wild oats.
Shooting in the parking lot by the Art Bar and it's time to consider black listing artists?
C'mon you guys. This is an old way of thinking.
158
I'd like to point out that FolkLife guy pistol whipped somebody and the gun fired.
He didn't even "pop off" on purpose.
He didn't even "pop off" on purpose.
159
Blacklisted - You're right, it's just a coincidence they pat down people at hiphop shows. I can't remember the last time I was patted down at a show and I go to a lot - Showbox, Neumo's, Tractor, Sunset Tavern, Chop Suey, etc.
Why is that, is the security at hiphop shows just biased against hiphop or maybe they understand the obvious point about hiphop and violence that white liberals are too afraid to admit?
Why is that, is the security at hiphop shows just biased against hiphop or maybe they understand the obvious point about hiphop and violence that white liberals are too afraid to admit?
160
perspective -
This is not a "tragedy". It is sad, unfortunate and perhaps a tad pathetic, but in no way does it reach the level of "tragedy".
If you want to experience "tragedy", there are many places in the world where you can go and experience true horror first hand - Somalia, Darfur, Iraq, Gaza, East Timor and Afghanistan come to mind.
Reading through some of the posts here reminds me of the immortal words of Jello Biafra:
You'll work harder
With a gun in your back
For a bowl of rice a day
Slave for soldiers
Till you starve
Then your head is skewered on a stake
Now you can go where people are one
Now you can go where they get things done
What you need, my son.
Is a holiday in cambodia
Where people dress in black
A holiday in cambodia
Where youll kiss ass or crack
And its a holiday in cambodia
Where youll do what youre told
A holiday in cambodia
Where the slums got so much soul
This is not a "tragedy". It is sad, unfortunate and perhaps a tad pathetic, but in no way does it reach the level of "tragedy".
If you want to experience "tragedy", there are many places in the world where you can go and experience true horror first hand - Somalia, Darfur, Iraq, Gaza, East Timor and Afghanistan come to mind.
Reading through some of the posts here reminds me of the immortal words of Jello Biafra:
You'll work harder
With a gun in your back
For a bowl of rice a day
Slave for soldiers
Till you starve
Then your head is skewered on a stake
Now you can go where people are one
Now you can go where they get things done
What you need, my son.
Is a holiday in cambodia
Where people dress in black
A holiday in cambodia
Where youll kiss ass or crack
And its a holiday in cambodia
Where youll do what youre told
A holiday in cambodia
Where the slums got so much soul
161
It was only tragic for the person who opened the back door when it was being pounded down and got shot =(
"This is not a "tragedy". It is sad, unfortunate and perhaps a tad pathetic, but in no way does it reach the level of "tragedy"."
"This is not a "tragedy". It is sad, unfortunate and perhaps a tad pathetic, but in no way does it reach the level of "tragedy"."
162
I think anyone reading these comments with a brain can figure out:
1. That hip hop is not all the same, there is a variety of styles and people who like them.
2. That hip hop music does not cause violence in and of itself (any more than Ozzie Osborn or Marilyn Manson music causes suicides).
3. That there are some people involved with making some types of hip hop, and some people who go to some types or performers of hip hop, that solve personal disagreements using guns to shoot and kill people.
4. That for many (presumably white) people (such as are presumably posting on this SLOG comments), it seems like these specific hip hop shows that do have violence happening at them may be the only contact they have with these groups of people who do use violence to solve personal disagreements, and so they think that all hip hop shows attract this sort violence.
5. That for many (possibly white) people (such as are posting on this SLOG comments), they are too busy saying hateful things about what's just happened and about hip hop shows in general to understand that such ugly views are part of what has created the conditions where too many people think that solving personal disagreements with guns is okay (i.e. their 'stinkin thinkin' is racist).
6. That there is a particular subculture that has been created in the larger African American culture (and not just the larger African American culture) where solving personal disagreements by killing people with guns seems like the best way of how to be in life.
7. That this particular subculture seems to be involved with some (but not all or even most) parts of the hip hop music culture.
8. That this particular subculture does not represent most of the African American culture and does not represent most of the hip hop culture.
9. And that addressing the violence that happens at some hip hop shows means addressing the conditions in the larger American culture and in the African American culture that create the situation where people learn that solving personal disagreements by killing people with guns seems like the best way of how to be in life.
I feel sad and angry that in our America we all have allowed a significant subculture to form where people - and especially young people - learn that solving personal disagreements by killing people with guns seems like the best way of how to be in life. And no, it didn't happen overnight, and too many of us have been looking the other way over the decades because (we wrongly thought) it didn't directly affect us or the people we love even while many people (but unfortunately not enough) have tried to do something to stop or change it.
More...
1. That hip hop is not all the same, there is a variety of styles and people who like them.
2. That hip hop music does not cause violence in and of itself (any more than Ozzie Osborn or Marilyn Manson music causes suicides).
3. That there are some people involved with making some types of hip hop, and some people who go to some types or performers of hip hop, that solve personal disagreements using guns to shoot and kill people.
4. That for many (presumably white) people (such as are presumably posting on this SLOG comments), it seems like these specific hip hop shows that do have violence happening at them may be the only contact they have with these groups of people who do use violence to solve personal disagreements, and so they think that all hip hop shows attract this sort violence.
5. That for many (possibly white) people (such as are posting on this SLOG comments), they are too busy saying hateful things about what's just happened and about hip hop shows in general to understand that such ugly views are part of what has created the conditions where too many people think that solving personal disagreements with guns is okay (i.e. their 'stinkin thinkin' is racist).
6. That there is a particular subculture that has been created in the larger African American culture (and not just the larger African American culture) where solving personal disagreements by killing people with guns seems like the best way of how to be in life.
7. That this particular subculture seems to be involved with some (but not all or even most) parts of the hip hop music culture.
8. That this particular subculture does not represent most of the African American culture and does not represent most of the hip hop culture.
9. And that addressing the violence that happens at some hip hop shows means addressing the conditions in the larger American culture and in the African American culture that create the situation where people learn that solving personal disagreements by killing people with guns seems like the best way of how to be in life.
I feel sad and angry that in our America we all have allowed a significant subculture to form where people - and especially young people - learn that solving personal disagreements by killing people with guns seems like the best way of how to be in life. And no, it didn't happen overnight, and too many of us have been looking the other way over the decades because (we wrongly thought) it didn't directly affect us or the people we love even while many people (but unfortunately not enough) have tried to do something to stop or change it.
163
@73, you're wrong. Sadly there was another rave shooting in 1994 outside the Velvet Elvis:
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.c…
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.c…
164
For all the people from 206 claiming that this has nothing to do with hip-hop, please explain this post from bedroomstomper on your board.
"Go to more "hardcore" rap shows.
Seattle is such a "puppy" compared to the real "big dog" cities that deal with tragedies like this all the time.
Times are crazy though for sure"
So these shootings have nothing to do with hip-hop, yet for Seattle to become a "big dog" city in the overall hip-hop community we need to build up a higher body count?
"Tragedies like this all the time", your words not mine.
So yeah, you can't go on your own board and flex nuts about how watching people die is just part of the hip-hop game (and how Seattle is baby shit compared to the hip-hop scenes in other areas, way to raise the bar on that) and then come here and try to play like everyone from the slog who says the same thing is somehow racist.
"Go to more "hardcore" rap shows.
Seattle is such a "puppy" compared to the real "big dog" cities that deal with tragedies like this all the time.
Times are crazy though for sure"
So these shootings have nothing to do with hip-hop, yet for Seattle to become a "big dog" city in the overall hip-hop community we need to build up a higher body count?
"Tragedies like this all the time", your words not mine.
So yeah, you can't go on your own board and flex nuts about how watching people die is just part of the hip-hop game (and how Seattle is baby shit compared to the hip-hop scenes in other areas, way to raise the bar on that) and then come here and try to play like everyone from the slog who says the same thing is somehow racist.
165
Excuse me for my ignorance, but how can anyone say hip-hop culture isn't inherently violent when you have to hire A SMALL ARMY OF SECURITY STAFFERS to pat-down every person who walks in the door?
Admittedly, I don't get around to clubs that much anymore, but on the eight or ten times a year I DO, I've never been so much asked to open my coat, let alone submit to a pat-down search in order to gain entry.
Seems to me a lot of you hoisting the "hip-hop is no more violent than any other music scene" petard are in abject denial of what's right in front of your own eyes. If the music, the performers, the promoters, or the audience (all of which collectively make up the "culture"} DIDN'T have some inherent tendency toward violent behavior, there'd be no need for penitentiary-level security protocols in the first place, now would there?
Admittedly, I don't get around to clubs that much anymore, but on the eight or ten times a year I DO, I've never been so much asked to open my coat, let alone submit to a pat-down search in order to gain entry.
Seems to me a lot of you hoisting the "hip-hop is no more violent than any other music scene" petard are in abject denial of what's right in front of your own eyes. If the music, the performers, the promoters, or the audience (all of which collectively make up the "culture"} DIDN'T have some inherent tendency toward violent behavior, there'd be no need for penitentiary-level security protocols in the first place, now would there?
166
@154: Your "Us vs. Them" attitude is pretty repellent to me. You're trying to make a very complex issue seem black and white (literally). You don't seem to be able to see any point of view beyond your own opinions, which don't seem to be grounded in reality.
And in my opinion, statements like "All one has to do is review all the posts on 206Proof and look at how you all treat each other to understand my point" betray your racism.
And in my opinion, statements like "All one has to do is review all the posts on 206Proof and look at how you all treat each other to understand my point" betray your racism.
167
@162- thank you for your clarity.
i realize that to most of you- who've probably long had your mind made up about the music or perhaps more tellingly, it's "crowd"- that this is what all of the hiphop in this town and elsewhere looks like. you're wrong.
hiphop is the popular music of that segment of our populace that are most affected by gang violence and the conditions that produce it. i'm not seeing a lot of "big picture" people in here and i'm not surprised.
RIP to the dead and my constant, worried thoughts to the injured and all their families.
i realize that to most of you- who've probably long had your mind made up about the music or perhaps more tellingly, it's "crowd"- that this is what all of the hiphop in this town and elsewhere looks like. you're wrong.
hiphop is the popular music of that segment of our populace that are most affected by gang violence and the conditions that produce it. i'm not seeing a lot of "big picture" people in here and i'm not surprised.
RIP to the dead and my constant, worried thoughts to the injured and all their families.
168
@165 Probably meant foisting (or flying?) a canard, not hoisting a petard. Archaic idioms are usually not worth the trouble, to tell the truth.
169
I love how we're all able to read each other's minds and tell who is racist. Asa, I have no idea if @154 is racist or not, but my read was they were referring to the way "hip hop fans talk to each other" not "black people talk to each other." Anyone who has even a slight familiarity with the hipshop scene in Seattle is aware that it's multiracial.
170
@162
1 2 and 3 maybe, but when you hit 4 is where i think the path starts to diverge. white people -- er... i mean slog posters.... you know, everyone here is white -- know that the violence is only certain groups withing groups.
though, some on the 206 board even said don't think you know about hip hop just because you've been to a blue scholars show. so what, then? it wasn't on slog that somebody said you don't know hip hop if you don't know a specific kind.
speaking in generalities, us sloggers want hip hop to succeed in seattle. we don't want violence to succeed. what is it about this show that attracted violence? if only a couple people a year started getting shot at a certain kind of rock shows on the hill, i'd be much less likely to go to them. as it is, i don't like any shootings and any clubs in the neighborhood i live in, just as i'm sure whomever is reading it does not want shootings in their neighborhood.
when i read the news this morning, it was unnerving.
1 2 and 3 maybe, but when you hit 4 is where i think the path starts to diverge. white people -- er... i mean slog posters.... you know, everyone here is white -- know that the violence is only certain groups withing groups.
though, some on the 206 board even said don't think you know about hip hop just because you've been to a blue scholars show. so what, then? it wasn't on slog that somebody said you don't know hip hop if you don't know a specific kind.
speaking in generalities, us sloggers want hip hop to succeed in seattle. we don't want violence to succeed. what is it about this show that attracted violence? if only a couple people a year started getting shot at a certain kind of rock shows on the hill, i'd be much less likely to go to them. as it is, i don't like any shootings and any clubs in the neighborhood i live in, just as i'm sure whomever is reading it does not want shootings in their neighborhood.
when i read the news this morning, it was unnerving.
171
"@122: Very well said.
The casual racism in this city is really disgusting, and on full display in this thread."
Sorry dude, I don't enjoy it when the LGBT crowd get harrassed on these nights, nor do I enjoy hearing about murders in places that were *supposed* to have actual security, and I generally like the clubs that these events are held in and don't want to see them shut down. I like hip-hop, but I don't like certain crowds, subgenres, "scenes", whatever you call it.
This kneejerk defense is what's going to get these types shows (but not all "hiphop") banned by either the city or the clubowners.
The casual racism in this city is really disgusting, and on full display in this thread."
Sorry dude, I don't enjoy it when the LGBT crowd get harrassed on these nights, nor do I enjoy hearing about murders in places that were *supposed* to have actual security, and I generally like the clubs that these events are held in and don't want to see them shut down. I like hip-hop, but I don't like certain crowds, subgenres, "scenes", whatever you call it.
This kneejerk defense is what's going to get these types shows (but not all "hiphop") banned by either the city or the clubowners.
172
"And in my opinion, statements like "All one has to do is review all the posts on 206Proof and look at how you all treat each other to understand my point" betray your racism."
He's talking about the online thugoverse, for chrissake. Internet beefs and rivalry spilling out into real life.
Violence is a cross-cultural problem.
He's talking about the online thugoverse, for chrissake. Internet beefs and rivalry spilling out into real life.
Violence is a cross-cultural problem.
173
you know who kills each other over "trivial" stuff? broke people and abused people.
where's the compassion for broke/abused and, oh yeah, DEAD people?
a big fucking LOL t@ all the sloggers who think they are so tolerant and understand so much more than the average person about the diversity of life on earth.
where's the compassion for broke/abused and, oh yeah, DEAD people?
a big fucking LOL t@ all the sloggers who think they are so tolerant and understand so much more than the average person about the diversity of life on earth.
174
So let me get this straight. It was a white guy that was murdered, a white guy that did the shooting (according to the 206 board), but it's racist against black people to be fed up with this type of violence and make the connection that it's happening more often at hip hop nights. WHAT?
175
@ 174 dont be disingenuous. there's a lot of seattlestyle code-talk going on here but let's keep it real.
those who want to rail against hiphop in general and paint it as the source of all evil dont see it as the multiracial culture its always been.
they see it as a black thing.
they see the white people involved hiphop as 'acting black'.
so no, i dont think its crazypills to call out the veneer of carefully obscured racism that always clogs the slog when something liek this happens.
those who want to rail against hiphop in general and paint it as the source of all evil dont see it as the multiracial culture its always been.
they see it as a black thing.
they see the white people involved hiphop as 'acting black'.
so no, i dont think its crazypills to call out the veneer of carefully obscured racism that always clogs the slog when something liek this happens.
176
Nearly all of the above is yet another case study in why no value is added to Slog posts by allowing commenting
177
@169: Fair enough, I can't read anyone's mind and I shouldn't try to. But frankly, my read differs from your read. I certainly stand by the first paragraph @166, and the ignorance on display in the last half of @154 (about the root causes of the violence that is unfortunately part of hiphop culture) makes me think that commenter is the one not taking note of the integration in the scene, not me.
178
This whole message board disgusted me almost as bad as the tragedy itself.
I was not at the show last night, but am a very active member of the NW hip hop community and am personally friends with nearly everybody involved in the show. All of which are good people who did nothing to deserve what happened. You wanna blame hip hop for the violence, then its safe to blame The Beatles, The Doors, and Jimmi Hendrix for America's drug problem. Its the same argument. This music is the only outlet for a lot of innercity kids who don't have it as good as you Queen Anne/Cap Hill mommy-money-bags rich kids did. Try holding people accountable for their actions instead of finding somebody or something to blame. My friend is laying in the hospital with holes in his chest and you closet-racist's are joking about the shit. I'm just ashamed of society after reading this board. I hope you all have happy lives in the weird world you live in.
I was not at the show last night, but am a very active member of the NW hip hop community and am personally friends with nearly everybody involved in the show. All of which are good people who did nothing to deserve what happened. You wanna blame hip hop for the violence, then its safe to blame The Beatles, The Doors, and Jimmi Hendrix for America's drug problem. Its the same argument. This music is the only outlet for a lot of innercity kids who don't have it as good as you Queen Anne/Cap Hill mommy-money-bags rich kids did. Try holding people accountable for their actions instead of finding somebody or something to blame. My friend is laying in the hospital with holes in his chest and you closet-racist's are joking about the shit. I'm just ashamed of society after reading this board. I hope you all have happy lives in the weird world you live in.
179
Thanks @169 and @172.
I was indeed talking about online thugoverse huked on fonics language that substitutes for English.
Its the rivalry and beefs amongst that culture that perpetuates the problem.
Then we have morons like Asa who incorrectly interpret my intent, and instead of facing the actual issue, need to explain it away by calling me racist. Typical response. It is that inability by many folks to confront and address the real issues facing the hip/hop culture.
Since most of the local hip/hop crowd leadership doesn't seem to "get" the point, it is doomed to succeed in Seattle. City leaders will want nothing to do with allowing shows to be hosted within the City limits.
Newsflash to all the 206Proof geniuses. It doesn't matter what you do going forward. You've now had several chances to promote/conduct shows locally. The City of Seattle and a majority of its citizens do not want your "entertainment" to be a part of their city's culture. The actions of you and your brethren have effectively gotten your act(s) booted out on your azzes.
Thanks for playing. Maybe Tacoma or Everett will be willing to host your problem.
I for one will actively work to see that your culture is punished out of existence.
Since you fail to understand the true issue, and fail to be willing to change the nature of the performances, the lyrics to your music, and the glorification of the THUG lifestyle, you leave us with no choice but to remove your ability to continue with the status quo.
Let me know if you don't understand and I'll type up a reply using smaller words and typing slower.
I was indeed talking about online thugoverse huked on fonics language that substitutes for English.
Its the rivalry and beefs amongst that culture that perpetuates the problem.
Then we have morons like Asa who incorrectly interpret my intent, and instead of facing the actual issue, need to explain it away by calling me racist. Typical response. It is that inability by many folks to confront and address the real issues facing the hip/hop culture.
Since most of the local hip/hop crowd leadership doesn't seem to "get" the point, it is doomed to succeed in Seattle. City leaders will want nothing to do with allowing shows to be hosted within the City limits.
Newsflash to all the 206Proof geniuses. It doesn't matter what you do going forward. You've now had several chances to promote/conduct shows locally. The City of Seattle and a majority of its citizens do not want your "entertainment" to be a part of their city's culture. The actions of you and your brethren have effectively gotten your act(s) booted out on your azzes.
Thanks for playing. Maybe Tacoma or Everett will be willing to host your problem.
I for one will actively work to see that your culture is punished out of existence.
Since you fail to understand the true issue, and fail to be willing to change the nature of the performances, the lyrics to your music, and the glorification of the THUG lifestyle, you leave us with no choice but to remove your ability to continue with the status quo.
Let me know if you don't understand and I'll type up a reply using smaller words and typing slower.
181
i don't see it as "acting black" -- and i would never call it that. i would love to use any wording that wasn't code for something i don't mean. i understand there are other root factors involved, and that it's not limited to black kids. i also understand that not all hip hop is the problem. but there is a problem. the 206 board acknowledges this as well. they talk about the need for greater security at certain events. it'd be nice if we on slog could acknowledge it, too.
and, yeah, there certainly is a connection between rock music and drug use. hello? of course there is. in the same way, not all rock music, not all fans, and not all venues. and it's lame to give rock a pass on this one, but for the most part, drug use deaths are different from shooting deaths. with drugs, usually a person does that to themselves, not innocent bystanders. even if death can happen, there is a significantly percentage of people dying from drug use then the percentage dying from arguments settled by gunfire.
and, yeah, there certainly is a connection between rock music and drug use. hello? of course there is. in the same way, not all rock music, not all fans, and not all venues. and it's lame to give rock a pass on this one, but for the most part, drug use deaths are different from shooting deaths. with drugs, usually a person does that to themselves, not innocent bystanders. even if death can happen, there is a significantly percentage of people dying from drug use then the percentage dying from arguments settled by gunfire.
182
@179: So glad you can speak for "The City of Seattle and a majority of its citizens". I believe it's you that doesn't understand the true issue here. You seem to think that if hiphop shows suddenly ended, gun violence in this town would suddenly cease. I don't think using smaller words is going to bring me around to your twisted reasoning.
183
"You seem to think that if hiphop shows suddenly ended, gun violence in this town would suddenly cease."
Can we divert from this thing that nobody's suggesting to ask a more productive question?
How do we know objectively what shows need more security than others? Is there some way that promoters can figure this out in advance, or is it something that the venues are going to have to all collectively take care of on their own?
Can we divert from this thing that nobody's suggesting to ask a more productive question?
How do we know objectively what shows need more security than others? Is there some way that promoters can figure this out in advance, or is it something that the venues are going to have to all collectively take care of on their own?
184
@168:
The common expression is "to be HOISTED on ones own petard", the meaning of which I will, for the moment, presume you understand. It was this expression to which I was referring, as it seemed appropriate in the context of the current discussion.
So, STFUA.
The common expression is "to be HOISTED on ones own petard", the meaning of which I will, for the moment, presume you understand. It was this expression to which I was referring, as it seemed appropriate in the context of the current discussion.
So, STFUA.
185
@182 Asa you better believe I do speak for a majority of citizens. Consider that most who have any significant influence in politics have ZERO interest in hip hop concerts. Add to that fact that the problems are coming from hip hop concerts, and you do the hard math.
I never pretended to insinuate that all gun violence in this town would end if hiphop shows ended.
But gun violence at hiphop shows would.
Noone is crazy enough to think a simple solution will solve a complex problem. But one simple solution will end one problem.
I think you get my point.
I never pretended to insinuate that all gun violence in this town would end if hiphop shows ended.
But gun violence at hiphop shows would.
Noone is crazy enough to think a simple solution will solve a complex problem. But one simple solution will end one problem.
I think you get my point.
186
@ 183
yes, i think so. a real dialogue with promoters willing to listen can do a lot.
anybody who knows local hip hop could've told you this particular show was going to be a clusterfuck, poorly managed, and full of dumbasses, but no one could have seen this happening.
yes, i think so. a real dialogue with promoters willing to listen can do a lot.
anybody who knows local hip hop could've told you this particular show was going to be a clusterfuck, poorly managed, and full of dumbasses, but no one could have seen this happening.
187
The hiphop fans on 206 get that there's a problem with violence and hiphop. The promoters and DJs obviously get that there's a problem, that's why they pat down people coming into the club.
The only ones who don't get that there's a problem are the white hipsters crying "racism!!" at every turn and bringing up a 15-year old shooting at a rave as if that proves hiphop doesn't have a problem.
The only ones who don't get that there's a problem are the white hipsters crying "racism!!" at every turn and bringing up a 15-year old shooting at a rave as if that proves hiphop doesn't have a problem.
190
"Why can't local hiphop shows be more like a Will Smith video. Now that's a good time."
Because then the Scientology will come :(
Because then the Scientology will come :(
191
Just for the record, I'm not trying to deny there's an issue with violence in hiphop culture, or claiming that the cap hill shootings/folklife/whatever are comparable to last night's events. I saw comments that smacked of racism to me and called them out, that's it.
192
@184 OK, I'll bite. What do you think "hoisted by one's own petard" means? And how does it make sense out of "Seems to me a lot of you hoisting the 'hip-hop is no more violent than any other music scene' petard are in abject denial of what's right in front of your own eyes."
193
there's all kinds of racism going on in this comments thread, mostly the "get off my lawn" type
the liberal whites are here! everybody else move the fuck out to everett or renton with your savageness!
aiyyo: you don't own the city because you live in it
the liberal whites are here! everybody else move the fuck out to everett or renton with your savageness!
aiyyo: you don't own the city because you live in it
195
I really don't understand why is there an issue with violence and hiphop?
Can someone in the hiphop community please explain?
Can someone in the hiphop community please explain?
198
Of course there is a higher propensity for violence at a Hip Hop night and its not racist to say so. Just like there is a higher propensity for "two in a stall" on a gay night. Is it homophobic to say that?
Sorry if it offends, but when I worked security at a club ALL of our fights/violence were on Hip Hop or Rap nights. And yes, all of our "inappropriate activity" in terms of blow-jobs etc were on gay nights.
Interestingly, there were a few fights on lesbian night too. No guns, but patrons removed.
Sorry if it offends, but when I worked security at a club ALL of our fights/violence were on Hip Hop or Rap nights. And yes, all of our "inappropriate activity" in terms of blow-jobs etc were on gay nights.
Interestingly, there were a few fights on lesbian night too. No guns, but patrons removed.
199
Sorry 196 I just want to understand from people from the hiphop community as not to buy into a BS stereotype.
202
The solution is we (the people of Seattle, and this requires ALL of the people of Seattle) come together as a community and refuse to tolerate this type of behavior. As long as this type of behavior is cool and glorified to a group of people, it will continue. There is less violence in the hippy community because peace and getting along is what is cool.
203
So if we insist that everyone washes at least twice a week the hippies will change their behavior? Sweet.
204
"i don't understand why there is an issue with blandness in the suburbs."
in the grand scheme of culture there is not just nut grabbing and insecure "inner-city" feuds and suburban tear-stricken emo kids
reality is a little less polarized than you're making it out to be
in the grand scheme of culture there is not just nut grabbing and insecure "inner-city" feuds and suburban tear-stricken emo kids
reality is a little less polarized than you're making it out to be
205
Hip hop is responsible for these shootings. The music was used to create a culture that glorified violence and ignorance. Most of the pioneers of this style are now millionaires and still are writing about being a thug. That or they died from their thuggery.
It is not racists to point out that rap/hip hop is violent. Sure not all of it is, but enough that it has caused problems all over. Gangsta rap has become the great white hope. Good job.
It is not racists to point out that rap/hip hop is violent. Sure not all of it is, but enough that it has caused problems all over. Gangsta rap has become the great white hope. Good job.
207
@206: http://www.rapnews.net/Topics/Shootings/
so many they needed their own section on the site, apparently.
so many they needed their own section on the site, apparently.
208
so if you combine all the incidents of shootings that have occurred over the past 30 years at all shows for "white people music" since you guys are lumping together raves, folk festivals, and dimebag shows as examples of "shootings are not only related to hip-hop" you still probably wouldn't be able to list as many incidents as have occurred during the past 5 years within the hip-hop scene, but go ahead and keep telling yourself that hip-hop has nothing to do with it.
209
Postum: You can't compare isolated incidents by psychotic individuals to a systemic problem with mentally competent if evil persons.
Now, if you want to talk about the sort of Black Metal that encourages in-scene murders, then you might have something.
Until that point, it'll be a stupid comparison.
Now, if you want to talk about the sort of Black Metal that encourages in-scene murders, then you might have something.
Until that point, it'll be a stupid comparison.
210
@ 195 & 199
Please see post 167
I think we SLOGers needs to get past the misconception that all hip hop shows have violence associated with them. They don't.
There are certain styles of hip hop, and certain specific people involved in making hip hop music, that do have an increased amount of violence happening, but this is not all hip hop, nor does it represent all of the hip hop genre.
Please see post 167
I think we SLOGers needs to get past the misconception that all hip hop shows have violence associated with them. They don't.
There are certain styles of hip hop, and certain specific people involved in making hip hop music, that do have an increased amount of violence happening, but this is not all hip hop, nor does it represent all of the hip hop genre.
212
@176, perhaps no value is added by slog comments (I disagree), but certainly you'll admit a whole lot of amusement is added.
213
Underground hip-hop shows tend to be full of retardation. For every 1 good performer, there's 199 other wannabes behind him that are willing to shoot (or be shot) for their 15 minutes of fame. You clowns are the problem.
Then you bootleg, set-claiming, sign-waving, wanksta-ass fuckbag "fans" or whatever you call yourself try to defend hip-hop by saying "I REP CD HARDER THAN YOU" or "WHITE PEOPLE WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND MEEEEEE" or some equally dumb shit, but can't understand why people dislike hip-hop.
Here's a clue: they don't like you, and since you try to act like you're everything hip-hop, so NOW, they don't like hip-hop. (Yes, we've all had that friend that swears 2Pac was the "truth" or some equally retarded dick-riding shit. Keyword: HAD).
The whole lot of you need to shut the fuck up. This is just a phase in your life that will eventually pass. Hopefully, with less shots.
Then you bootleg, set-claiming, sign-waving, wanksta-ass fuckbag "fans" or whatever you call yourself try to defend hip-hop by saying "I REP CD HARDER THAN YOU" or "WHITE PEOPLE WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND MEEEEEE" or some equally dumb shit, but can't understand why people dislike hip-hop.
Here's a clue: they don't like you, and since you try to act like you're everything hip-hop, so NOW, they don't like hip-hop. (Yes, we've all had that friend that swears 2Pac was the "truth" or some equally retarded dick-riding shit. Keyword: HAD).
The whole lot of you need to shut the fuck up. This is just a phase in your life that will eventually pass. Hopefully, with less shots.
214
COMMENT DELETED: Threatening
We'd rather not moderate your comments, but off-topic, gratuitously inflammatory, threatening, or otherwise inappropriate remarks may be removed, and repeat offenders may be banned from commenting. We never censor comments based on ideology. Thanks to all who add to the conversation on Slog.
215
So regardless of whether violence is endemic to throwing a hiphop event (it isn't), are all events from now on in Cap Hill going to require full security patdowns, wanding, and armed offduty officers? Is this going to affect indie events, and push the margins way past profitability?
How is the community itself going to self-police? I really don't care enough to filter through the rest of the 206 forum, so are there any points of interest or insight there?
I really don't want to see Chop Suey close, and I don't necessarily want to see the events shut down, but the shitheads that push this back and forth definitely need to be purged somehow, if at all possible.
How is the community itself going to self-police? I really don't care enough to filter through the rest of the 206 forum, so are there any points of interest or insight there?
I really don't want to see Chop Suey close, and I don't necessarily want to see the events shut down, but the shitheads that push this back and forth definitely need to be purged somehow, if at all possible.
216
If blacks want to shoot each other, fine, I could honestly care less. Please just keep it in their own neighborhoods. I hate having to put up with this shit when they bring it to the Hill.
No more hip-hop on the Hill!
No more hip-hop on the Hill!
217
Dude who got shot was white. The guy who did the shooting was white. I hate having to deal with this shit when white folks bring their drama to the hill.
No more white people on the hill!
No more white people on the hill!
220
It's not about Hip-Hop it's about social class you idiots! Acts like D.Black, Common Market, Mad Rad, etc... these Hip-Hop acts put on a positive vibe at local venues. It's the dipshit mentality of certain others that bring a shit vibe. Listen to the fucking lyrics, the minimal knowledge on shit. Dumb and full of shit. So the guy that died was white? Wow what will white Seattle do? SHIT HAPPENS! The shooter is to blame and so is the fucking PROMOTER! The club will probably get fucked. Bottom Line
221
So much for all the CD talk, the rapper killed, the shooter and I believe the victim still in the hospital are all from Everett. Northside baby!
222
A long, long time ago, the most violence-prone genre you could book was country.
But that was a long, long time ago.
But that was a long, long time ago.
223
I had just walked by Chop Suey and crossed the street with a couple of friends when we heard four gunshots. At first I thougth it was a drive by shooting but I didn't see any car taking off or people scrambling for cover. A couple of minutes later, police cars came from all directions. Then came the ambulance and fire truck.
I've been a resident of Capitol hill for years and have seen a bit of a downturn ever since some of the clubs started playing hip hop. It's drawing an undesireable crowd up to the hill.
A while back, Sugar had a couple of shootings. Guess what kind of music they were playing? I'm just glad they closed and became King Cobra which now is mostly live local rock bands. The crowd is a bit loud but nothing like the "gansta wannabes" that would hang out there before. Another example would be Dino's on Madison. Just about everytime I drove by there on a Friday or Saturday nights, there would be police cars outside.
Before anyone jumps on me and accuses me of making it a race issue. The crowds at the clubs on Capitol Hill were and still are mixed race crowds. It's the hip hop factor and the gansta wannabe low lifes it brings.
Chop Suey normally doesn't have this problem but I think it's time the city start banning certain themes at clubs.
Things on Capitol Hill were fine until the club owners started bringing in that crap. I want my neighborhood back!
I've been a resident of Capitol hill for years and have seen a bit of a downturn ever since some of the clubs started playing hip hop. It's drawing an undesireable crowd up to the hill.
A while back, Sugar had a couple of shootings. Guess what kind of music they were playing? I'm just glad they closed and became King Cobra which now is mostly live local rock bands. The crowd is a bit loud but nothing like the "gansta wannabes" that would hang out there before. Another example would be Dino's on Madison. Just about everytime I drove by there on a Friday or Saturday nights, there would be police cars outside.
Before anyone jumps on me and accuses me of making it a race issue. The crowds at the clubs on Capitol Hill were and still are mixed race crowds. It's the hip hop factor and the gansta wannabe low lifes it brings.
Chop Suey normally doesn't have this problem but I think it's time the city start banning certain themes at clubs.
Things on Capitol Hill were fine until the club owners started bringing in that crap. I want my neighborhood back!
224
A constructive comment/question, since someone mentioned the type of fan and genre that this promoter's shows have.
I love local music. Having a hip hop scene in Seattle is great. But for those of us who dabble in several music genres and don't keep up with which acts or which promoters are garbage or invite a dangerous/stupid element into the club: how are people who want to attend hiphop shows supposed to tell which ones are fun, positive, authentic hip hop, and which ones are poser small-town-gangsta fake shit, with idiot fans?
What is the source of hip hop knowledge on the net or on the radio that I can trust to lead me to shows and acts that are the real deal, instead of low-quality (probably misogynistic, gang-bangin-wannabe, bullshit) at a dangerous venue?
Let's start differentiating the real from the bullshit, so people stop blaming "hip hop" generically for all the violence.
I love local music. Having a hip hop scene in Seattle is great. But for those of us who dabble in several music genres and don't keep up with which acts or which promoters are garbage or invite a dangerous/stupid element into the club: how are people who want to attend hiphop shows supposed to tell which ones are fun, positive, authentic hip hop, and which ones are poser small-town-gangsta fake shit, with idiot fans?
What is the source of hip hop knowledge on the net or on the radio that I can trust to lead me to shows and acts that are the real deal, instead of low-quality (probably misogynistic, gang-bangin-wannabe, bullshit) at a dangerous venue?
Let's start differentiating the real from the bullshit, so people stop blaming "hip hop" generically for all the violence.
226
@157: Venice 13 pretty much agitates the 80s L.A. punk scene into a decade long bloodbath and not one single article turns up in mainstream media.
What the fuck are you talking about? I mentioned this to my wife (who was in the 80s LA punk scene), and after she was done laughing she said the only blood bath she was aware of was when someone got smacked in the nose in a mosh pit.
What the fuck are you talking about? I mentioned this to my wife (who was in the 80s LA punk scene), and after she was done laughing she said the only blood bath she was aware of was when someone got smacked in the nose in a mosh pit.
227
"What the fuck are you talking about? I mentioned this to my wife (who was in the 80s LA punk scene), and after she was done laughing she said the only blood bath she was aware of was when someone got smacked in the nose in a mosh pit."
Besides, if you're talking about violence in terrible run-down neighborhoods, you're talking about violence in terrible run-down neighborhoods independent of the punk scene. The clubs in cap hill aren't violent on other nights (aside from the usual drunk bullshit), and crime isn't that bad aside from the occasional hobo going nuts.
Besides, if you're talking about violence in terrible run-down neighborhoods, you're talking about violence in terrible run-down neighborhoods independent of the punk scene. The clubs in cap hill aren't violent on other nights (aside from the usual drunk bullshit), and crime isn't that bad aside from the occasional hobo going nuts.
229
@227: The thing that gets me is that the only shows in Seattle that have all the metal detectors and pat-downs and assorted security theater are hip-hop shows. Which makes two reasons I will in all likelihood never go to one. I don't consider being pawed by some low-rent goon squad to be an auspicious way to start an evening. And if the promoters feel the need for expensive security theater, then that is probably not a particularly safe place to be hanging out.
231
that was the most cowardly act I ever heard of, that's pussy shit shoot and run,hitting innocent people ....... keep that shit on your own fucking turf bitch
232
Morons!!!! It's pretty funny how you guys are so fast to Blame Hip Hop for someone else's Stupidity. And from what I have read person wasn't even in the club. It's been a bit since I have been to Chop Suey and the last show I went to Was when the Alkaholiks were up there. And I sure don't remember anything happening that night.
Let's make some other dumb associations catholicism makes you want to touch little boys. So, get your priest robes cause you'll only get a transfer. Work for Boeing and you can make love to ponies in Enumclaw. Let women throw babies away and get away with it. Probably will say that was hormonal or depression matter.
Blame It On Hip-Hop
Look at This!
What is This?
My Luv has already
Been found guilty.
Accused of a crime
That she didn't commit.
Yea, she was there
When it happened.
But she didn't let off.
She wasn't the one
That popped off.
Squeezing round
After round
To see what they
Could top off.
She's with me
Where ever I go.
Vibrating my lungs
When I'm in my car.
Or bringing me to a sweat
When I'm in a club.
Shirt soaked while this
Woman's caressing my head.
But now since
There's been a shooting
She's getting blamed.
Accused of popping
Off slugs.
Terrorizing people in
The front of a club.
The Bohemian no less.
K- Solo wasn't the first
To say the rhyme did it.
But when was the last
Time you saw
A record hop off a
Turntable and
Pick up a knife.
Start chasing kids
On ya block
And threatening your
Wife.
I can see it know
wanted posters
of a Black Anger LP.
With a note
Saying armed and
Dangerous
Call 911
If you see
This CD
How stupid does
This sound.
"Blame it on Hip- Hop."
Place the blame
Where the blame belongs.
On the man with
The gun.
Or that guy who's in
My face cause
a woman told him NO!
Get them the two
Drunk girls fighting
over who's weave's
the best.
But don't blame
HIP- HOP.
For people's insecurities.
There acts of immaturity.
Remember we're apart
Of your society.
So if you blame Hip- hop
Don't forget to blame
Yourselves.
What are you gonna
Do?
Treat us like
Step children.
Lock us away
And throw away
The key?
Don't blame Hip- Hop.
It's our form
Of expression.
Cause if Hip- Hop
Takes the blame
You might as
Well put a
Knife to my throat.
Cause that's what
Your doing
Taking away
my voice.
myspace.com/dlbiininja/
You can blame a genre all you like. But, the Genre can't control the actions of the people who listen to it.
More...
Let's make some other dumb associations catholicism makes you want to touch little boys. So, get your priest robes cause you'll only get a transfer. Work for Boeing and you can make love to ponies in Enumclaw. Let women throw babies away and get away with it. Probably will say that was hormonal or depression matter.
Blame It On Hip-Hop
Look at This!
What is This?
My Luv has already
Been found guilty.
Accused of a crime
That she didn't commit.
Yea, she was there
When it happened.
But she didn't let off.
She wasn't the one
That popped off.
Squeezing round
After round
To see what they
Could top off.
She's with me
Where ever I go.
Vibrating my lungs
When I'm in my car.
Or bringing me to a sweat
When I'm in a club.
Shirt soaked while this
Woman's caressing my head.
But now since
There's been a shooting
She's getting blamed.
Accused of popping
Off slugs.
Terrorizing people in
The front of a club.
The Bohemian no less.
K- Solo wasn't the first
To say the rhyme did it.
But when was the last
Time you saw
A record hop off a
Turntable and
Pick up a knife.
Start chasing kids
On ya block
And threatening your
Wife.
I can see it know
wanted posters
of a Black Anger LP.
With a note
Saying armed and
Dangerous
Call 911
If you see
This CD
How stupid does
This sound.
"Blame it on Hip- Hop."
Place the blame
Where the blame belongs.
On the man with
The gun.
Or that guy who's in
My face cause
a woman told him NO!
Get them the two
Drunk girls fighting
over who's weave's
the best.
But don't blame
HIP- HOP.
For people's insecurities.
There acts of immaturity.
Remember we're apart
Of your society.
So if you blame Hip- hop
Don't forget to blame
Yourselves.
What are you gonna
Do?
Treat us like
Step children.
Lock us away
And throw away
The key?
Don't blame Hip- Hop.
It's our form
Of expression.
Cause if Hip- Hop
Takes the blame
You might as
Well put a
Knife to my throat.
Cause that's what
Your doing
Taking away
my voice.
myspace.com/dlbiininja/
You can blame a genre all you like. But, the Genre can't control the actions of the people who listen to it.
233
It seems to me - a definite outsider to the hip-hop scene if there ever was one - that there are two groups of people involved: The peaceful types who just want to make their music, and the assholes who imagine themselves to be far more important than they are, and revel in violence and consumerism.
Unfortunately, it seems like the latter group, while much smaller in numbers, is the one that has the attention of the record producers and the media, who love it for its sensationalism. The media in particular seems infatuated with anything related to gangs - or that they can associate with gangs.
But as long as there is money behind that group, I think it will be hard for hip-hop to purge itself.
And btw, anyone who thinks this is a race thing is mistaken. There's a lot of kids of all colors who buy into the gangster thing. Most of them are poseurs, or adapt the look and attitude as some sort of defense mechanism, or to blend in, but it certainly is a common look for teens of all races.
I just think it's a shame that people can't go hear music without some assholes ruining everything. Fist fighting would be bad enough, but at least it's easily handled. Gun stuff adds a whole new dimension to it.
Unfortunately, it seems like the latter group, while much smaller in numbers, is the one that has the attention of the record producers and the media, who love it for its sensationalism. The media in particular seems infatuated with anything related to gangs - or that they can associate with gangs.
But as long as there is money behind that group, I think it will be hard for hip-hop to purge itself.
And btw, anyone who thinks this is a race thing is mistaken. There's a lot of kids of all colors who buy into the gangster thing. Most of them are poseurs, or adapt the look and attitude as some sort of defense mechanism, or to blend in, but it certainly is a common look for teens of all races.
I just think it's a shame that people can't go hear music without some assholes ruining everything. Fist fighting would be bad enough, but at least it's easily handled. Gun stuff adds a whole new dimension to it.
234
Just wanted to add that Vito's closed less than a month ago due to their own hip hop night shooting.
235
pretty fucked up when people are in fear and losing there lives because of other peoples stupidity.
236
Some of you should be embarrassed for how quick you are to generalize. Yes, this particular show, on this particular night, brought on a particular type of crowd, where a particular incident may have occurred, causing a particular idiot to decide that opening fire was a great way to make a point. It's ridiculous.
Regardless of affiliation, I've always been under the assumption that a show venue, a show, and music, is where you put your differences aside and and chill out. Apparently, this wasn't the case for Saturday night. But seriously, shame on you for saying all of hip hop attracts this violence. Then you must also believe punk rock incites lunatics, country music promotes biggots, closed mindedness, and metal the worship of all things evil. Maybe all those things have a hint of truth, or maybe the music is reflection of the actual mind-state.
Plenty of emo, wimpy, innocent, and fun loving hip hop exists in Seattle and across the country. Plenty of "rap" that appeals to both the hipster hip hop, "thugger" hip hop, and all those in-between also exists.
Truth is that gang violence, unjust violence, is unfortunately a part of life for some. By "banning" shows, you're not doing anything to solve, work on, or attempt to acknowledge that it exists.
Seriously, pray for recovery of those injured, pray for the family and friends on the life lost. Shut the fuck up if you don't know what you're talking about and move back to your kirkland condo.
Regardless of affiliation, I've always been under the assumption that a show venue, a show, and music, is where you put your differences aside and and chill out. Apparently, this wasn't the case for Saturday night. But seriously, shame on you for saying all of hip hop attracts this violence. Then you must also believe punk rock incites lunatics, country music promotes biggots, closed mindedness, and metal the worship of all things evil. Maybe all those things have a hint of truth, or maybe the music is reflection of the actual mind-state.
Plenty of emo, wimpy, innocent, and fun loving hip hop exists in Seattle and across the country. Plenty of "rap" that appeals to both the hipster hip hop, "thugger" hip hop, and all those in-between also exists.
Truth is that gang violence, unjust violence, is unfortunately a part of life for some. By "banning" shows, you're not doing anything to solve, work on, or attempt to acknowledge that it exists.
Seriously, pray for recovery of those injured, pray for the family and friends on the life lost. Shut the fuck up if you don't know what you're talking about and move back to your kirkland condo.
237
"move back to your kirkland condo."
you just lost all your street cred, holmes. When keepin it real goes real bad....
you just lost all your street cred, holmes. When keepin it real goes real bad....
239
@236 - if you knew what you were talking about you would have known that some of the most successful hip-hop artists came from the suburbs and upscale communities. Dre and Ice Cube are two prime examples. Get back to the schoolbooks, son and do your homework.
240
I have gone to a lot of hip hop shows in Seattle in the 12+ years I've been here. I have never seen anything like this incident at any show I've been to. There are elements of the hip hop community that do revel in violent content and imagery and some of those individuals actively engage in that lifestyle. This is not all of hip hop, and if you think so, then you are being willfully ignorant and the relevancy of your opinion should be duly reduced. If you think hip hop is the source of the problem then you have little to no knowledge of the history of hip hop or the history of this country. You can complain about hip hop and any violence that may be correlated all day, but until you stop complaining about red herrings and start contributing to community solutions that deal with the fundamental issues of poverty, education, and inequality, you are just a voice in the wind whose inaction and/or mislplaced actions will contribute to the foundation of these problems.
243
@ 226. WTF are you talking about?
I don't know which Los Angeles your wife is from but Clanton, FFF, V13, the LADs, Sacro 13, Sons Of Samoa are just a few of the gangs who would converge on L.A. Punk shows as a staging point for their beef. It was a really, really bad time and I didn't imagine those 10 or so years.
You're just gonna have to trust me on this. I know your wife knows everything but she's wrong on this one, dude.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welcome_to_…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicidal_te…
I don't know which Los Angeles your wife is from but Clanton, FFF, V13, the LADs, Sacro 13, Sons Of Samoa are just a few of the gangs who would converge on L.A. Punk shows as a staging point for their beef. It was a really, really bad time and I didn't imagine those 10 or so years.
You're just gonna have to trust me on this. I know your wife knows everything but she's wrong on this one, dude.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welcome_to_…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicidal_te…
244
B @ 224 asks an excellent question. If so many of you were sure that this show with this promoter and these artists was going to be a problem, what is it that tipped you off about that? What's the secret code to know if going to a particular HipHop show will endanger your life or not?
Anybody got any answers?
Anybody got any answers?
245
I like how the fact that there is one person dead and another fighting for their life seems to get ignored by so many commenters here.
I won't sit here and act all knowledgeable about what gang violence is and is not currently going on, but I will say that I have been to many hip-hop events in Seattle that have not ever resulted in shootings or violence of any kind. My husband is a musician in the local hip-hop community, and is non-violent. I can name many musicians like him that do not affiliate in this bullshit.
It sucks that it just cant be about that. Cause isn't that what we are all there for anyway? The music?
If anyone has any information on memorial services or fundings started to help pay for any of their medical bills, etc, please send me an email:
livingwicked@thepqnation.com
I won't sit here and act all knowledgeable about what gang violence is and is not currently going on, but I will say that I have been to many hip-hop events in Seattle that have not ever resulted in shootings or violence of any kind. My husband is a musician in the local hip-hop community, and is non-violent. I can name many musicians like him that do not affiliate in this bullshit.
It sucks that it just cant be about that. Cause isn't that what we are all there for anyway? The music?
If anyone has any information on memorial services or fundings started to help pay for any of their medical bills, etc, please send me an email:
livingwicked@thepqnation.com
246
"My husband is a musician in the local hip-hop community, and is non-violent. I can name many musicians like him that do not affiliate in this bullshit."
Really though I think the vast majority of us agree, and the Hip Hop community is welcome, but fuck... can't we purge the teenage thugs that give everybody a bad name and make everybody in the community (hip hop and otherwise) miserable?
It'd be dumb and unfair to expect people like your husband to have to "speak for the community". I just wish there were less of the others who kneejerk defend these stupid, violent kids who offer so little. We can't expect everyone to police the commuty with few real "leaders", but for fuck's sake, can't there be a little quality control when it comes to clubs and promoters?
Really though I think the vast majority of us agree, and the Hip Hop community is welcome, but fuck... can't we purge the teenage thugs that give everybody a bad name and make everybody in the community (hip hop and otherwise) miserable?
It'd be dumb and unfair to expect people like your husband to have to "speak for the community". I just wish there were less of the others who kneejerk defend these stupid, violent kids who offer so little. We can't expect everyone to police the commuty with few real "leaders", but for fuck's sake, can't there be a little quality control when it comes to clubs and promoters?
247
@243 "You're just gonna have to trust me on this. I know your wife knows everything but she's wrong on this one, dude."
Even still, but how shitty were those neighborhoods versus Capitol Hill? How much violence existed out there when shows weren't going on?
There's a difference between an endemic violence and here where it's being imported.
Even still, but how shitty were those neighborhoods versus Capitol Hill? How much violence existed out there when shows weren't going on?
There's a difference between an endemic violence and here where it's being imported.
248
This is some of the funniest stuff I've read in a while. Everyone is so quick to point fingers and blame media and music and gangs for violence from the comfort of their homes and laptops and where ever else they may be.
At the end of the day violence is violence. People have been getting shot all over the place for various reasons. Taking this specific incident and laying blame on a culture as a whole just because you have very narrow minded personal views is the truest sign of your personal ignorance.
Someone lost their life needlessly, another one is fighting for his life, and all you can do is point fingers, crack jokes and sling racial slurs? Who's the real coward at this point? Shutting down shows won't stop violence in our community. And yes I said it's ours. Just because you live on the hill you thought you were immune, but apparently you're not. None of us are.
If you really are tired and don't want things to get worse, get from behind your screens and contribute something positive in your community. Quit thinking and acting like violence is okay if it's in "their" neighborhood. No one deserves to live in shit-not Rainier Valley, not Tukwila, not Lynnwood, and not Capitol Hill. It's not "their" problem, it's our problem. All of us no matter where we live. And justifying your points by saying it's about rap music makes you no better than the man who pulled the trigger Sunday morning.
Ignorance is no excuse (Modular, Hong Kong Suey etc.). And fear is no reason to run an entire culture out of town. I understand being mad, believe me-I'm mad too. But I will not take my frustrations out on Hip Hop, or the people that love it. I'll take my frustrations out by helping my community, and helping to get guns out Rainier Valley, and fighting a local government that has turned a blind eye to its inner core for close to 30 years.
Those interested in understanding more about hip hop should take a look at a local website www.206zulu.com It'll seriously adjust how you see the culture you're dumping on.
RIP Joseph (29-E)
More...
At the end of the day violence is violence. People have been getting shot all over the place for various reasons. Taking this specific incident and laying blame on a culture as a whole just because you have very narrow minded personal views is the truest sign of your personal ignorance.
Someone lost their life needlessly, another one is fighting for his life, and all you can do is point fingers, crack jokes and sling racial slurs? Who's the real coward at this point? Shutting down shows won't stop violence in our community. And yes I said it's ours. Just because you live on the hill you thought you were immune, but apparently you're not. None of us are.
If you really are tired and don't want things to get worse, get from behind your screens and contribute something positive in your community. Quit thinking and acting like violence is okay if it's in "their" neighborhood. No one deserves to live in shit-not Rainier Valley, not Tukwila, not Lynnwood, and not Capitol Hill. It's not "their" problem, it's our problem. All of us no matter where we live. And justifying your points by saying it's about rap music makes you no better than the man who pulled the trigger Sunday morning.
Ignorance is no excuse (Modular, Hong Kong Suey etc.). And fear is no reason to run an entire culture out of town. I understand being mad, believe me-I'm mad too. But I will not take my frustrations out on Hip Hop, or the people that love it. I'll take my frustrations out by helping my community, and helping to get guns out Rainier Valley, and fighting a local government that has turned a blind eye to its inner core for close to 30 years.
Those interested in understanding more about hip hop should take a look at a local website www.206zulu.com It'll seriously adjust how you see the culture you're dumping on.
RIP Joseph (29-E)
249
@ 247 Endemic vs. imported?
Different why?
Would it serve your need for understanding whatever it is you're struggling with If I explain that of the handful of gangs I listed, FFF was from East Hollywood and The West Valley, the LADS were from Southbay and The West Side and 3 of the Suicidal franchises were found in Venice, Santa Monica and Culver City. Even pre-gentrification Venice was still one of L.A.s more precious and artsy enclaves. Hollywood and Venice in the 80s were about as close an equivalent as you'll find to Cap Hill.
But what's your point?
Different why?
Would it serve your need for understanding whatever it is you're struggling with If I explain that of the handful of gangs I listed, FFF was from East Hollywood and The West Valley, the LADS were from Southbay and The West Side and 3 of the Suicidal franchises were found in Venice, Santa Monica and Culver City. Even pre-gentrification Venice was still one of L.A.s more precious and artsy enclaves. Hollywood and Venice in the 80s were about as close an equivalent as you'll find to Cap Hill.
But what's your point?
250
There are more love songs than anything else. If songs could make you do something we'd all love one another.
-Frank Zappa
-Frank Zappa
251
@247 I absolutely agree with you. I think my point was more along the lines of missing the fact that there are people injured and dead not spoken about on this specific forum...
And, I wish we could purge the teens that think they have something to prove from these venues and promoted shows. The fact is, they are everywhere, in every genre. Every city/state/community has them, and the only people who can really do anything about these kids are their parents.
I have an 8 year old boy. He is in love with hip hop and what it has to offer. In fact, he went to the Bone Thugz show with his dad last month... and experienced something amazing there. 1st Black Prez was there at that show. With him. And my husband. He is still talking about it. How great it was. He wants to rap now more than ever. I am pretty sure that show was non-violent. Why cant they all be that way? I want to allow him the freedom to express his love for music, but these instances terrify me to no end because he could just be standing there one day, doin his thing like these victims were doing, and get shot in the fucking chest. FOR BEING THERE.
I am rambling. Sorry. My point is that it is tragic that we cannot just love the music together.
And, I wish we could purge the teens that think they have something to prove from these venues and promoted shows. The fact is, they are everywhere, in every genre. Every city/state/community has them, and the only people who can really do anything about these kids are their parents.
I have an 8 year old boy. He is in love with hip hop and what it has to offer. In fact, he went to the Bone Thugz show with his dad last month... and experienced something amazing there. 1st Black Prez was there at that show. With him. And my husband. He is still talking about it. How great it was. He wants to rap now more than ever. I am pretty sure that show was non-violent. Why cant they all be that way? I want to allow him the freedom to express his love for music, but these instances terrify me to no end because he could just be standing there one day, doin his thing like these victims were doing, and get shot in the fucking chest. FOR BEING THERE.
I am rambling. Sorry. My point is that it is tragic that we cannot just love the music together.
252
"Shutting down shows won't stop violence in our community."
Refusing to accept that there's a problematic subsection of the hiphop community won't either. And while volunteering in Rainier Valley is admirable (seriously!), who's to say that they had anything to do with this shooting? These dumb kids are warring from their myspace pages and internet forums for fuck's sake. I'm all for people not attacking all of Hiphop for the crimes of the few as long as everyone can agree that there are some forms of the culture that are more problematic and need to be addressed more directly rather than wishing and hoping that they sit down and shut the fuck up (which they won't do by nature.)
Refusing to accept that there's a problematic subsection of the hiphop community won't either. And while volunteering in Rainier Valley is admirable (seriously!), who's to say that they had anything to do with this shooting? These dumb kids are warring from their myspace pages and internet forums for fuck's sake. I'm all for people not attacking all of Hiphop for the crimes of the few as long as everyone can agree that there are some forms of the culture that are more problematic and need to be addressed more directly rather than wishing and hoping that they sit down and shut the fuck up (which they won't do by nature.)
253
"But what's your point?"
Should it be that way now? Does it have to be this way? What the hell needs to get done to avoid this in the future? How do you keep the Seattle Hip Hop going strong while purging the stupid misogynistic homophobic nutgrabbers? (It's not just the thugg lyfe subset that's misogynistic/homophobic/violent in WA, but that's a different demographic and a different problem for a different time.)
There has to be a way to get it done, I know *most* people want it done, I'm just curious to hear things other than "violence is normal" or "did you know that crazy people also like to kill other people!" or "WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO KILL HIPHOP PERHAPS YOU WOULD LIKE SOME MAYO WITH YOUR WHITE BREAD". I don't see this as a race issue, classwise I doubt they're driven by poverty (likely closer to middle-class than otherwise).
The problem has to be broken down somewhere so we don't have any more liquor licenses revoked and overzealous security theater eating up all the profits from indie hip hop shows and passively destroying the community.
Should it be that way now? Does it have to be this way? What the hell needs to get done to avoid this in the future? How do you keep the Seattle Hip Hop going strong while purging the stupid misogynistic homophobic nutgrabbers? (It's not just the thugg lyfe subset that's misogynistic/homophobic/violent in WA, but that's a different demographic and a different problem for a different time.)
There has to be a way to get it done, I know *most* people want it done, I'm just curious to hear things other than "violence is normal" or "did you know that crazy people also like to kill other people!" or "WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO KILL HIPHOP PERHAPS YOU WOULD LIKE SOME MAYO WITH YOUR WHITE BREAD". I don't see this as a race issue, classwise I doubt they're driven by poverty (likely closer to middle-class than otherwise).
The problem has to be broken down somewhere so we don't have any more liquor licenses revoked and overzealous security theater eating up all the profits from indie hip hop shows and passively destroying the community.
254
I live 5 blocks from Chop Suey. I love it. You can hear a hip-hop, punk rock, ska, reggae, dancehall, electronic, rave-ish, hard rock, rock rock, indie or unclassifiable show here and have a great time. What better way to get to know your neighbors than dancing around with them on a weekend night? What a great venue to give young artists a voice. It's the kind of place that draws people from all over and makes me never want to leave the neighborhood. Capitol Hill friends and neighbors and people in this chat, please be ready to help Chop Suey when the owner or caretaker announces how they want to honor the slain and reclaim the space. Please, when the time is right, direct your energy into getting back our peaceful place to play.
---Your Neighbor on Union
---Your Neighbor on Union
255
@ 254:
I don't live near Chop Suey, but you can bet your ass I will be helping in any way I can.
I don't live near Chop Suey, but you can bet your ass I will be helping in any way I can.
256
to 252...
No one is ignoring the negative issues and aspects of Hip Hop (really rap since this about the music). But let's really face facts...
When shit hits the fan, everyone is up in arms and quick to point fingers at the culture, but those same voices grow silent and those fingers stay at waist side when the community and culture of Hip Hop actually stand up and try to do something positive for the community and people.
I have yet to see a place in the SLOG where Hip Hop is praised for trying not to be the stereotypical violent breeding ground so many here have claimed it to be.
I said I'll volunteer in Rainier Valley, because before and after Chop Suey, there is a problem there. I will volunteer where I can if I know it will help that community because it will eventually help mine (Bellevue). I don't want my kids growing up fearing that their neighborhood will become as bad as RV has become-but am I gonna wait till it gets here to speak up and try to advocate positive change? HELL NO!!! If I have to bring my privilaged white ass down to the "hood" to help out, then that's where my privilaged white ass will be. Those kids deserve it just as much as yours and mine. It's not Hip Hop's fault, and it's not just their problem.
It's time that we all stop acting like a bunch of blind ignorant up-nose shits and take responsibility for the shit we all have let come in to OUR city/OUR state. And if you don't have anything of substance to contribute to make things better, then you're just as much a coward as the shooter, and in my eyes, you're just as responsible.
Ignorance and fear is no excuse to not be involved in a positive change.
"The forces of evil don't take a day off...why should I?"
-Bob Marley
More...
No one is ignoring the negative issues and aspects of Hip Hop (really rap since this about the music). But let's really face facts...
When shit hits the fan, everyone is up in arms and quick to point fingers at the culture, but those same voices grow silent and those fingers stay at waist side when the community and culture of Hip Hop actually stand up and try to do something positive for the community and people.
I have yet to see a place in the SLOG where Hip Hop is praised for trying not to be the stereotypical violent breeding ground so many here have claimed it to be.
I said I'll volunteer in Rainier Valley, because before and after Chop Suey, there is a problem there. I will volunteer where I can if I know it will help that community because it will eventually help mine (Bellevue). I don't want my kids growing up fearing that their neighborhood will become as bad as RV has become-but am I gonna wait till it gets here to speak up and try to advocate positive change? HELL NO!!! If I have to bring my privilaged white ass down to the "hood" to help out, then that's where my privilaged white ass will be. Those kids deserve it just as much as yours and mine. It's not Hip Hop's fault, and it's not just their problem.
It's time that we all stop acting like a bunch of blind ignorant up-nose shits and take responsibility for the shit we all have let come in to OUR city/OUR state. And if you don't have anything of substance to contribute to make things better, then you're just as much a coward as the shooter, and in my eyes, you're just as responsible.
Ignorance and fear is no excuse to not be involved in a positive change.
"The forces of evil don't take a day off...why should I?"
-Bob Marley
257
FFFFFF @ 253
The only thing we can do about that my friend is cleave from our hearts all of the same dark things we condemn in others and hope the next man follows suit.
You get that right?
Your need to control hip hop is just coming across as pretty desperate. I'd love to know more about what sets people on the course of thinking they are entitled to their version of utopia on deeply flawed spaceship earth.
You get to express some outrage and suddenly it's up to a bunch of musicians to miraculously actualize your world view?
Why didn't you just say that in the first place?
I hereby appoint myself Pope of Hip Hop, the monolithic cultural behemoth that does what I tell it.
Boom. I'm Pope now.
Just sent out a mass email to hip hop. Told everybody to turn their hats around and pull their pants up.
Done.
Anything else?
(I'm just bustin' your chops a little but you get it right? Good talk.)
The only thing we can do about that my friend is cleave from our hearts all of the same dark things we condemn in others and hope the next man follows suit.
You get that right?
Your need to control hip hop is just coming across as pretty desperate. I'd love to know more about what sets people on the course of thinking they are entitled to their version of utopia on deeply flawed spaceship earth.
You get to express some outrage and suddenly it's up to a bunch of musicians to miraculously actualize your world view?
Why didn't you just say that in the first place?
I hereby appoint myself Pope of Hip Hop, the monolithic cultural behemoth that does what I tell it.
Boom. I'm Pope now.
Just sent out a mass email to hip hop. Told everybody to turn their hats around and pull their pants up.
Done.
Anything else?
(I'm just bustin' your chops a little but you get it right? Good talk.)
258
"Your need to control hip hop is just coming across as pretty desperate. I'd love to know more about what sets people on the course of thinking they are entitled to their version of utopia on deeply flawed spaceship earth.
You get to express some outrage and suddenly it's up to a bunch of musicians to miraculously actualize your world view?
Why didn't you just say that in the first place?
I hereby appoint myself Pope of Hip Hop, the monolithic cultural behemoth that does what I tell it.
Boom. I'm Pope now.
Just sent out a mass email to hip hop. Told everybody to turn their hats around and pull their pants up.
Done.
Anything else?
(I'm just bustin' your chops a little but you get it right? Good talk.)"
Yeah, yeah I know. My point isn't that there's some monolithic hip hop hivemind that could fix everything. The collective doesn't "owe" some greater responsibility, but why refuse to think?
Dumping your head in the sand, complaining only about the complainers not even thinking if any of the problems are fixable is just going to get more people killed, more clubs closed, and fewer venues willing to put up with this juvenile shit.
I'm from Miami, none of this shit really surprises me, but I really like the venues around here and don't want them to suffer because of a few stupid punks.
You get to express some outrage and suddenly it's up to a bunch of musicians to miraculously actualize your world view?
Why didn't you just say that in the first place?
I hereby appoint myself Pope of Hip Hop, the monolithic cultural behemoth that does what I tell it.
Boom. I'm Pope now.
Just sent out a mass email to hip hop. Told everybody to turn their hats around and pull their pants up.
Done.
Anything else?
(I'm just bustin' your chops a little but you get it right? Good talk.)"
Yeah, yeah I know. My point isn't that there's some monolithic hip hop hivemind that could fix everything. The collective doesn't "owe" some greater responsibility, but why refuse to think?
Dumping your head in the sand, complaining only about the complainers not even thinking if any of the problems are fixable is just going to get more people killed, more clubs closed, and fewer venues willing to put up with this juvenile shit.
I'm from Miami, none of this shit really surprises me, but I really like the venues around here and don't want them to suffer because of a few stupid punks.
259
"but I really like the venues around here and don't want them to suffer because of a few stupid punks."
We all agree on that.
We all agree on that.
260
I think bullets should cost $4,000 dollars a piece. You wants to cap somebody's ass? You're going to have to save up first. It'll give you time to think it over...
261
Condolences to the young man's family. A life is not something to be taken from someone, especially someone so young.
262
@ proof people - nobody sane is "blaming hip hop" or suggesting the shooting was some perversion of "when i say hip, you shoot him" call and response. they're highlighting a very real correlation between hip hop shows and shootings. stop worrying about the opinions of irrelevant people uninvolved in the hip hop scene. the whole body appears as a cornered rat
@ slog people - you're the irrelevant people i'm talking about. disco sucks
@ slog people - you're the irrelevant people i'm talking about. disco sucks
263
Nothing like a bunch of assholes that can't even look themselves in the fucking mirror and see what they really are. "Hip Hop" wants to define itself as "peaceful" and "one love", but here is the unfortunate part: Listen to the "art form" and tell me the vast majority of that particular "Scene" does not extol the listener to be violent, whether with a gun, or fists, or a baseball bat, or whatever weapon of choice happens to be laying around. It is like the crap that spews from the mouths of idiots about the CIA making people smoke crack in the hood (or meth in the CUNTRY, but that is another issue we can cover at a later date). At some point, you have to take responsibility for your own actions, and make your own community better by stopping the defense of backward ass, destructive behavior.
PULL YOURSELVES UP OUT OF THE SHIT AND STOP BLAMING EVERYONE BUT THE PEOPLE IN YOUR OWN COMMUNITY!!! MUSIC IS NOT GOING TO DO IT YOU FOOLS, IN FACT, IN IT'S PRESENT FORM, IT IS DOING MORE DAMAGE THEN GOOD, BECAUSE FOR SOME INSANE REASON, IT HAS SOME KIND OF STRANGE VALIDITY, even though shit is getting progressively WORSE while everyone is "rapping about social issues".
Before you start with your disingenuous crap about violence that occurs in other places, under different circumstances, with totally different rational put forth as a reason, think about what you are about to type. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THIS ISSUE ONLY, THE ISSUE BEING VIOLENCE WITHIN THE HIPHOP COMMUNITY, AND BY EXTENSION, AMONG IT'S DEVOTED FANS. Do you want to sound like an asshole apologist for a bunch of violent, self hating morons that make the lives of people IN THEIR OWN COMMUNITY worse by pushing a shit way of life on a bunch of poor kids don't have any other role models?
IT IS PATHETIC...the assholes that make the real money laugh at you clowns while you flail away at each other like a bunch of self loathing robots, programmed to destroy your own lives and make the existence of the other humans around you a total shitpile. If you want to make it a racist thing, fuck right off, plenty of people that listen to "Hip Hop" are from many other backgrounds then African American, it is a MINDSET, it is about a WAY OF LIFE. The HOOD is multicultural and has folks of every ethnicity and color inhabiting it's environs.
Cheap guns, cheap drugs, cheap bullshit music pushing the before mentioned poison, and you all take the bait, oppress yourselves, and then try to lie about the entire scene, as if everyone is a god damned idiot cowed by the idea they might catch some flak for being a "racist" for noticing the reality of the situation. Every artist in the Hip Hop community that does not push violent bullshit racist misogynistic garbage should get together and speak out against the MAJORITY of their scene, because when they don't do so, they really allow themselves to be dragged down into the mire along with the assholes that have been allowed to run the "show". This issue is just like any other in this day and age, you can' talk about in the light of reality because it might "offend" someone...FUCK OFF, CONSIDER YOURSELVES OFFENDED YOU MORONS, STOP SHOOTING EACH OTHER, STOP OPPRESSING ONE ANOTHER, AND GET TOGETHER AND DO SOMETHING TRULY POSITIVE WITH YOUR LIVES.
NOTICE: the parts that are in caps in this post are supposed to simulate you morons getting YELLED AT, COMPLETE WITH FLYING SPITTLE, RIGHT UP IN YOUR IDIOT FACES... JUST "GET IT"...JUST TRY NOT TO LIE TO YOURSELVES THIS ONE SINGLE TIME!!! 2009 and everyone is still a complete fucking asshole. I really thought the world, or at least this Cuntry, would have improved it's overall national I.Q. by now...evidently, that was, and is, far too much to hope for...
More...
PULL YOURSELVES UP OUT OF THE SHIT AND STOP BLAMING EVERYONE BUT THE PEOPLE IN YOUR OWN COMMUNITY!!! MUSIC IS NOT GOING TO DO IT YOU FOOLS, IN FACT, IN IT'S PRESENT FORM, IT IS DOING MORE DAMAGE THEN GOOD, BECAUSE FOR SOME INSANE REASON, IT HAS SOME KIND OF STRANGE VALIDITY, even though shit is getting progressively WORSE while everyone is "rapping about social issues".
Before you start with your disingenuous crap about violence that occurs in other places, under different circumstances, with totally different rational put forth as a reason, think about what you are about to type. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THIS ISSUE ONLY, THE ISSUE BEING VIOLENCE WITHIN THE HIPHOP COMMUNITY, AND BY EXTENSION, AMONG IT'S DEVOTED FANS. Do you want to sound like an asshole apologist for a bunch of violent, self hating morons that make the lives of people IN THEIR OWN COMMUNITY worse by pushing a shit way of life on a bunch of poor kids don't have any other role models?
IT IS PATHETIC...the assholes that make the real money laugh at you clowns while you flail away at each other like a bunch of self loathing robots, programmed to destroy your own lives and make the existence of the other humans around you a total shitpile. If you want to make it a racist thing, fuck right off, plenty of people that listen to "Hip Hop" are from many other backgrounds then African American, it is a MINDSET, it is about a WAY OF LIFE. The HOOD is multicultural and has folks of every ethnicity and color inhabiting it's environs.
Cheap guns, cheap drugs, cheap bullshit music pushing the before mentioned poison, and you all take the bait, oppress yourselves, and then try to lie about the entire scene, as if everyone is a god damned idiot cowed by the idea they might catch some flak for being a "racist" for noticing the reality of the situation. Every artist in the Hip Hop community that does not push violent bullshit racist misogynistic garbage should get together and speak out against the MAJORITY of their scene, because when they don't do so, they really allow themselves to be dragged down into the mire along with the assholes that have been allowed to run the "show". This issue is just like any other in this day and age, you can' talk about in the light of reality because it might "offend" someone...FUCK OFF, CONSIDER YOURSELVES OFFENDED YOU MORONS, STOP SHOOTING EACH OTHER, STOP OPPRESSING ONE ANOTHER, AND GET TOGETHER AND DO SOMETHING TRULY POSITIVE WITH YOUR LIVES.
NOTICE: the parts that are in caps in this post are supposed to simulate you morons getting YELLED AT, COMPLETE WITH FLYING SPITTLE, RIGHT UP IN YOUR IDIOT FACES... JUST "GET IT"...JUST TRY NOT TO LIE TO YOURSELVES THIS ONE SINGLE TIME!!! 2009 and everyone is still a complete fucking asshole. I really thought the world, or at least this Cuntry, would have improved it's overall national I.Q. by now...evidently, that was, and is, far too much to hope for...
264
@263.
Right. Clearly, the vast majority of black people (and you are clearly talking about black people, but are just to chicken shit to say it) listen to hip hop and shoot each other. None of us are attempting to do anything to change it. Thanks for the idea. None of had ever thought of it. We're too busy listening to 50 cent, polishing our guns and hating whitey.
Fucker.
Right. Clearly, the vast majority of black people (and you are clearly talking about black people, but are just to chicken shit to say it) listen to hip hop and shoot each other. None of us are attempting to do anything to change it. Thanks for the idea. None of had ever thought of it. We're too busy listening to 50 cent, polishing our guns and hating whitey.
Fucker.
265
what is it with black people and live music events. There seems to be a shooting. Before you call me racist, I'm dating an educated black man (i'm a fag by the way). And we both ponder, what happend to the rich culture of the civil rights movement. Great music, great thinking, greatness. Why does the post civil rights generation have little or no respect for anyone but themselves.
Wasn't there also a shooting of a young black man outside of another club at the beginning of the year. Hmm...Black music, large black crowd. And The War Room on some evenings is a fucking war zone.
It's funny, why don't Africans act this way? I've been to a couple of African music evenings at Waids and it was a lovely, upbeat, welcoming crowd. It seems to be the young African Americans who just don't have a fucking clue.
If Capitol Hill wants to have some rich black experiences, let's bring in some good blues and jazz artists and experience the youth to that. No one ever got shot over that great music. Enough of this gangsta bullshit on Capitol Hill.
Wasn't there also a shooting of a young black man outside of another club at the beginning of the year. Hmm...Black music, large black crowd. And The War Room on some evenings is a fucking war zone.
It's funny, why don't Africans act this way? I've been to a couple of African music evenings at Waids and it was a lovely, upbeat, welcoming crowd. It seems to be the young African Americans who just don't have a fucking clue.
If Capitol Hill wants to have some rich black experiences, let's bring in some good blues and jazz artists and experience the youth to that. No one ever got shot over that great music. Enough of this gangsta bullshit on Capitol Hill.
266
264 you just addressed a bunch of arguments that were never introduced because they were easier to contend with. carry on!
267
I too have been going to a lot of underground hip hop shows for the past 10 years or so and not once have I noticed any acts of violence or shootings. The most I see is random acts of drunkenness and people trying to push their way to the front when the headliner comes on the stage. Plus a lot of the people in attendance at these shows were predominately white. So you can't blame the music or the people who listen to it, as it's a varied listening audience just like any other form/type of music. Also I have noticed increases in security in the past year or so, as I use to never have to be patted down before entering a club/venue, but it's becoming a lot more common occurrence now. I think what most of you are commenting on or referring to is rap music, as hip-hop in my opinion is more about positivity and intelligence trying to represent the four elements(b'boying, mc'ing, dj'ing, and graffiti).
268
To blame the music or the venue exclusively is myopic. You must look deeper: the degradation of society and weak, impressionable people who act out fantasies. Nothing makes you do anything, unless that one Beattles song played backwards really does make you kill, them I guess I'm mistaken. I love how everyone freaks out over this incident when violent acts are perpetrated ten fold in other cities like L.A. Seattle's a great city but a little soft. You just got to prepare for the worst and hope for the best.
269
@263 After 262 previous comments, that has to be the best most concise summary.
Too bad many in the hip hop community probably didn't comprehend half the meaning or context of what you were saying.
MSea, BigKountry, Billy the Kid, Logics, Katelyn, Kitty Wu, all of you over at 206Proof need to read, read again, and re-read that post.
Until you own up honestly to what the real issues are, nothing will change.
Maybe it is time to say enough with the Hip Hop scene in Seattle.
I haven't seen anyone from the Proof step up and admit there is a deeper problem brought to light by this shooting.
My condolensces to 29-E's family. Hopefully your son's death will bring about real substantive change. Hopefully he didn't die in vain.
We shall see.
Too bad many in the hip hop community probably didn't comprehend half the meaning or context of what you were saying.
MSea, BigKountry, Billy the Kid, Logics, Katelyn, Kitty Wu, all of you over at 206Proof need to read, read again, and re-read that post.
Until you own up honestly to what the real issues are, nothing will change.
Maybe it is time to say enough with the Hip Hop scene in Seattle.
I haven't seen anyone from the Proof step up and admit there is a deeper problem brought to light by this shooting.
My condolensces to 29-E's family. Hopefully your son's death will bring about real substantive change. Hopefully he didn't die in vain.
We shall see.
270
We are supposed to believe any of you 206Proof fools when you have one of the very people involved in the shooting spouting this stuff hourse after he left the hospital?
WTF?
What is all this shit supposed to mean:
so i saw this on black senate's myspace:
-------------
ON SATURDAY NIGHT BLACK SENATE WAS IN ATTENDANCE AT CHOP SUEY IN SEATTLE.. THE MEDIA REPORTS THAT A FIGHT BROKE OUT WHICH LEAD TO GUN FIRE...... THIS IS NOT ACCURATE!!! THERE WAS A PLOT TO MURDER ONE OF THE MEMBERS OF BLACK SENATE THAT DIDNT GET CARRRIED OUT. MOST OF THE SHOOTING OCCURRED AT THE REAR ENTRANCE IN WHICH 3 PEOPLE WERE SHOOT. 29-E WAS MURDERED (R.I.P. MY DUDE! YOU WILL BE MISSED DEARLY!!!!!), OUR BELOVED PRESWELL JACKSON WAS STRUCK IN THE CHEST, WE ARE PRAYING HARD THAT HE PULLS THRU THIS. HE IS STILL IN CRITICAL CONDITION AND TRAMA FROM BLACK SENATE WAS STRUCK TWICE BUT IS ALIVE AND WELL. EVEN AFTER BEING SHOT TRAMA AND HIS GROUP DEFENDED THEMSELVES LIKE GENERALS SUPPOSED TOO! THIS SENSELESS ACT OF VIOLENCE WAS STUPID AND VERY UNCALLED FOR. ITS NOT GANSTA TO TAKE AN INNOCENT MANS LIFE. NOR IS IT RIGHT TO ATTEMPT TO TAKE SOMEONES LIFE THAT NEVER TOOK A LIFE FROM YOU! ONE PERSON IN CUSTODY THUS FAR BUT THERE ARE TWO MORE SUSPECTS THAT MUST BE BROUGHT TO JUSTICE FOR THEIR PART IN THIS TRAGEDY.... TO THOSE WHO SECRETLY (yes we know!) HAD A HAND IN THIS HORRIBLE, STUPID, NOW U KNOCKED FOR LIFE SITUATION, MAY GOD HAVE MERCY ON YOUR SOUL!
BLACK SENATE WOULD LIKE TO EXPRESS OUR LOVE AND HEARTS TO THE FALLEN/FALLING SOLDIERS 29-E AND PRESWELL JACKSON......OUR PRAYERS ARE HEAVY FOR THIER SOULS....................LETS MAKE MUSIC NOT WAR
STOP THE FAKE GANSTA SHIT!!!!!!!! THROW YA HANDS UP IF YOU A MAN!!! YOU GET MORE STREET CREDIBILITY FROM LAYING HANDS ON SOMEONE THAN JUST SHOOTING UP A CLUB! THATS JUST DUMB!
this suntzu now... i was wondering how they "defended themselve's like generals supposed 2 do" did i miss somethin or was there a fite after a mad gunman let off & fled the scene? im not tryin 2 clown but im gettin the sence that cats is a lil juiced up on they self's... i also seen this on sohh.com
By TRAMA730 on January 5, 2009 5:10 AM
THIS IS YA BOY TRAMA!!!!! YO KILLA STOP WIT ALL THAT INTERNET THUG SHIT SON IF YOU KNEW WHAT REALLY POPPED OFF IN WHATS CRACKING RIGHT NOW YOU WOULD RESPECT A NIGGA GANSTA................RIP TA 29-E IN PREZ GET WELL SOON SON HOLLA AT ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By Killa & Trama on January 5, 2009 5:41 AM
Hey Trama, You just had a mother fucker run in on a music set, try to fucking kill you. You are fucking up the scene for all us other Mc's who have our shit wound up on the business tip. People dont try to off me at my shows. You're just a weak nigga who can't control his business. looks like someone talk to much. fake ass pussy nigga. now you gonna fight back? Retaliate? Quit comin all hard and shit saying you beat death nigga, YOU KILLED 29-E FAGGOT. Prez and 29 ain't have nothing to do with your DRAMA, HE TOOK YOUR BULLET. now sleep tonight knowin Seattle homies died for you. Put your fucking attitude in your pocket. You can't even rap.
THIS SUNTZU LIKE I SAID IM NOT TRYIN 2 BE DISRESPECTFUL BUT I FEEL LIKE THIS DUDE ALREADY ON SOME 50 CENT SHIT I GOT SHOT IM STIL BREATHIN NIGGAS TRIED 2 MURDER ME ALL THAT stuff when A REAL NIGGA WOULDNT HAVE LET OFF IN A CROWD HE WOULDA WALKED UP AND SHOT U IN YOUR FACE (LIKE THE SHOOTING ON 23RD & CHERRY OUTSIDE THE GARF. COMM CENTER & AT VITOS) I FEEL 4 U TRAMA U GOT SHOT AT OR WHATEVER AND ALL THE VICTIMS THATS BEEN HURT BUT PLZ DONT GLAMOROUS THIS SITUATION ESPECIALLY SEEIN AS YA MANS IS SHOT THE FUCK UP RITE NOW HOW WOULD HE FEEL HEARIN ALL THIS SHIT?
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More...
WTF?
What is all this shit supposed to mean:
so i saw this on black senate's myspace:
-------------
ON SATURDAY NIGHT BLACK SENATE WAS IN ATTENDANCE AT CHOP SUEY IN SEATTLE.. THE MEDIA REPORTS THAT A FIGHT BROKE OUT WHICH LEAD TO GUN FIRE...... THIS IS NOT ACCURATE!!! THERE WAS A PLOT TO MURDER ONE OF THE MEMBERS OF BLACK SENATE THAT DIDNT GET CARRRIED OUT. MOST OF THE SHOOTING OCCURRED AT THE REAR ENTRANCE IN WHICH 3 PEOPLE WERE SHOOT. 29-E WAS MURDERED (R.I.P. MY DUDE! YOU WILL BE MISSED DEARLY!!!!!), OUR BELOVED PRESWELL JACKSON WAS STRUCK IN THE CHEST, WE ARE PRAYING HARD THAT HE PULLS THRU THIS. HE IS STILL IN CRITICAL CONDITION AND TRAMA FROM BLACK SENATE WAS STRUCK TWICE BUT IS ALIVE AND WELL. EVEN AFTER BEING SHOT TRAMA AND HIS GROUP DEFENDED THEMSELVES LIKE GENERALS SUPPOSED TOO! THIS SENSELESS ACT OF VIOLENCE WAS STUPID AND VERY UNCALLED FOR. ITS NOT GANSTA TO TAKE AN INNOCENT MANS LIFE. NOR IS IT RIGHT TO ATTEMPT TO TAKE SOMEONES LIFE THAT NEVER TOOK A LIFE FROM YOU! ONE PERSON IN CUSTODY THUS FAR BUT THERE ARE TWO MORE SUSPECTS THAT MUST BE BROUGHT TO JUSTICE FOR THEIR PART IN THIS TRAGEDY.... TO THOSE WHO SECRETLY (yes we know!) HAD A HAND IN THIS HORRIBLE, STUPID, NOW U KNOCKED FOR LIFE SITUATION, MAY GOD HAVE MERCY ON YOUR SOUL!
BLACK SENATE WOULD LIKE TO EXPRESS OUR LOVE AND HEARTS TO THE FALLEN/FALLING SOLDIERS 29-E AND PRESWELL JACKSON......OUR PRAYERS ARE HEAVY FOR THIER SOULS....................LETS MAKE MUSIC NOT WAR
STOP THE FAKE GANSTA SHIT!!!!!!!! THROW YA HANDS UP IF YOU A MAN!!! YOU GET MORE STREET CREDIBILITY FROM LAYING HANDS ON SOMEONE THAN JUST SHOOTING UP A CLUB! THATS JUST DUMB!
this suntzu now... i was wondering how they "defended themselve's like generals supposed 2 do" did i miss somethin or was there a fite after a mad gunman let off & fled the scene? im not tryin 2 clown but im gettin the sence that cats is a lil juiced up on they self's... i also seen this on sohh.com
By TRAMA730 on January 5, 2009 5:10 AM
THIS IS YA BOY TRAMA!!!!! YO KILLA STOP WIT ALL THAT INTERNET THUG SHIT SON IF YOU KNEW WHAT REALLY POPPED OFF IN WHATS CRACKING RIGHT NOW YOU WOULD RESPECT A NIGGA GANSTA................RIP TA 29-E IN PREZ GET WELL SOON SON HOLLA AT ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By Killa & Trama on January 5, 2009 5:41 AM
Hey Trama, You just had a mother fucker run in on a music set, try to fucking kill you. You are fucking up the scene for all us other Mc's who have our shit wound up on the business tip. People dont try to off me at my shows. You're just a weak nigga who can't control his business. looks like someone talk to much. fake ass pussy nigga. now you gonna fight back? Retaliate? Quit comin all hard and shit saying you beat death nigga, YOU KILLED 29-E FAGGOT. Prez and 29 ain't have nothing to do with your DRAMA, HE TOOK YOUR BULLET. now sleep tonight knowin Seattle homies died for you. Put your fucking attitude in your pocket. You can't even rap.
THIS SUNTZU LIKE I SAID IM NOT TRYIN 2 BE DISRESPECTFUL BUT I FEEL LIKE THIS DUDE ALREADY ON SOME 50 CENT SHIT I GOT SHOT IM STIL BREATHIN NIGGAS TRIED 2 MURDER ME ALL THAT stuff when A REAL NIGGA WOULDNT HAVE LET OFF IN A CROWD HE WOULDA WALKED UP AND SHOT U IN YOUR FACE (LIKE THE SHOOTING ON 23RD & CHERRY OUTSIDE THE GARF. COMM CENTER & AT VITOS) I FEEL 4 U TRAMA U GOT SHOT AT OR WHATEVER AND ALL THE VICTIMS THATS BEEN HURT BUT PLZ DONT GLAMOROUS THIS SITUATION ESPECIALLY SEEIN AS YA MANS IS SHOT THE FUCK UP RITE NOW HOW WOULD HE FEEL HEARIN ALL THIS SHIT?
--------------------------------------
271
@270 "We are supposed to believe any of you 206Proof fools when you have one of the very people involved in the shooting spouting this stuff hourse after he left the hospital?"
For real, these morons are going to just keep shooting each other at their shows over and over from the look of it.
Grow up. Be a fucking man. Stop blabbing on myspace or livejournal or whatever the fuck about your tiny penises and buying guns to mask your tiny penises and maybe you'll live long enough to show a girl your penis.
@268 "Seattle's a great city but a little soft. You just got to prepare for the worst and hope for the best."
Maybe your expectations are too low. I mean, the sad thing is just how little this sort of thing surprises us.
For real, these morons are going to just keep shooting each other at their shows over and over from the look of it.
Grow up. Be a fucking man. Stop blabbing on myspace or livejournal or whatever the fuck about your tiny penises and buying guns to mask your tiny penises and maybe you'll live long enough to show a girl your penis.
@268 "Seattle's a great city but a little soft. You just got to prepare for the worst and hope for the best."
Maybe your expectations are too low. I mean, the sad thing is just how little this sort of thing surprises us.
273
@ 272 thanks for being able to crawl out your abortion bag as a fetus. You show the reason why they need to be more thorough in there medical procedures. And thanks for bringing nothing of value to this SLOG.
The music isn't the problem. Stupidities been around far longer Than Hip Hop has. I've been to rock concerts where fights have broken out. I've been to mosh pits in Germany and watched people get stomped out. Wait the Oktoberfest, and a few other events in Germany where fights had broken out.
Even knew about about a guy getting beat up at a bowling alley. Maybe we should've banned bowling then as well. I'm surprised that Football hasn't been banned either. I do remember seeing things happen at Seahawks games. But, I guess you wouldn't know of such things since you couldn't bring anything of relevance to the Slog.
The music isn't the problem. Stupidities been around far longer Than Hip Hop has. I've been to rock concerts where fights have broken out. I've been to mosh pits in Germany and watched people get stomped out. Wait the Oktoberfest, and a few other events in Germany where fights had broken out.
Even knew about about a guy getting beat up at a bowling alley. Maybe we should've banned bowling then as well. I'm surprised that Football hasn't been banned either. I do remember seeing things happen at Seahawks games. But, I guess you wouldn't know of such things since you couldn't bring anything of relevance to the Slog.
274
The way SLOGers have responded to this incident is deeply disturbing, even accounting for the casual heartlessness of [what passes for] "blog culture".
To the 206Proof folks commenting here - you've done more than I would have to have said your peace with these SLOG folks and the ones who have not gotten it yet are just not going to get it. I'd say you're wasting your time to keep commenting here - I thank you for taking the time to do your best to share what's going on for you.
Quite a few of these SLOG commenters seem to have a really distorted view of hip hop and appear to have zeroed in and are nitpicking on one detail (about the lyrics and posturing - and sometimes violence - that some artists/producers/whatever get into) to the exclusion of a lot of other things. It's starting to make me believe the only time they notice that hip hop exists is when there's a show at Chop Suey or Bumbershoot. Of course, if you read SLOG comments a lot, you know a lot of these folks here get really obsessive-compulsive and fixated about posting a lot of comments on stupid shit like someone posting a picture of dog poo or whatever (seriously). And too much of the time it seems the only reason SLOG exists is so some people can make a living from posting really provocative statements mostly just to stir shit.
I really didn't realize the extent of the unconscious racism that is showing up here. I say unconscious because I believe (perhaps foolishly) that some of the commenters on here would not be engaging in some the more profound examples of it if they actually caught sight or how they have attitudes, assumptions, and filters [a,a&f] that are racist. [There are other commenters are being offensive consciously but there are assholes everywhere, aren't there].
Sure I expected some of the racist a,a&f because that's so common, but I did think that with a little dialogue at least some people would get some - even a bit - of the a,a&f the are showing in their actions. Maybe some have, but far more commenters than I would have expected do not. And I would bet I'm seeing only whatever portion I'm capable of recognizing.
It's like I'm seeing commenters assert a viewpoint, and then someone challenges that view, and the original commenter still doesn't get it, and this happens over and over (and over and over). Why don't they get - I can here what the people challenging them are saying, the people challenging them hear what they're saying, but the people being challenged are just not getting it.
I've seen something similar in some community meetings where what I saw where white people and black people discussing a neighborhood issue using the same words, and taking the time to do some explanation of what each meant by the those words, but still somehow communication was not happening - or more precisely I think the black people were more or less getting what the white people were meaning, but the white were really not getting what the black people were saying.
It's like the white people were stuck inside of their own meaning and I guess they just had never had any experience in life that would give them any context for grasping the particular reality of the issue that the black people were speaking up about. At the least I thought (in this case) the white people would at least get that they are not getting something, just out of a basic respect for other human beings - that even though they were all talking about the same topic the black people were saying something about that wasn't making sense to the white people - at the least I thought the white people would get that they weren't getting something.
But no, the white people kept asserting their viewpoint over and over again like it was the only possible conclusion about the topic that anybody could come to. It was weird to witness, and disturbing. Just like these several topics on SLOG related to the shooting at Chop Suey . . . there must be five topics on this going, and pretty much the same thing is happening on each of them.
It's disturbing, that with this much talk there can be this much failure to communicate, that with black and white people living in the same city - even sometimes the same neighborhood, they're living in two such different realities . . .
More...
To the 206Proof folks commenting here - you've done more than I would have to have said your peace with these SLOG folks and the ones who have not gotten it yet are just not going to get it. I'd say you're wasting your time to keep commenting here - I thank you for taking the time to do your best to share what's going on for you.
Quite a few of these SLOG commenters seem to have a really distorted view of hip hop and appear to have zeroed in and are nitpicking on one detail (about the lyrics and posturing - and sometimes violence - that some artists/producers/whatever get into) to the exclusion of a lot of other things. It's starting to make me believe the only time they notice that hip hop exists is when there's a show at Chop Suey or Bumbershoot. Of course, if you read SLOG comments a lot, you know a lot of these folks here get really obsessive-compulsive and fixated about posting a lot of comments on stupid shit like someone posting a picture of dog poo or whatever (seriously). And too much of the time it seems the only reason SLOG exists is so some people can make a living from posting really provocative statements mostly just to stir shit.
I really didn't realize the extent of the unconscious racism that is showing up here. I say unconscious because I believe (perhaps foolishly) that some of the commenters on here would not be engaging in some the more profound examples of it if they actually caught sight or how they have attitudes, assumptions, and filters [a,a&f] that are racist. [There are other commenters are being offensive consciously but there are assholes everywhere, aren't there].
Sure I expected some of the racist a,a&f because that's so common, but I did think that with a little dialogue at least some people would get some - even a bit - of the a,a&f the are showing in their actions. Maybe some have, but far more commenters than I would have expected do not. And I would bet I'm seeing only whatever portion I'm capable of recognizing.
It's like I'm seeing commenters assert a viewpoint, and then someone challenges that view, and the original commenter still doesn't get it, and this happens over and over (and over and over). Why don't they get - I can here what the people challenging them are saying, the people challenging them hear what they're saying, but the people being challenged are just not getting it.
I've seen something similar in some community meetings where what I saw where white people and black people discussing a neighborhood issue using the same words, and taking the time to do some explanation of what each meant by the those words, but still somehow communication was not happening - or more precisely I think the black people were more or less getting what the white people were meaning, but the white were really not getting what the black people were saying.
It's like the white people were stuck inside of their own meaning and I guess they just had never had any experience in life that would give them any context for grasping the particular reality of the issue that the black people were speaking up about. At the least I thought (in this case) the white people would at least get that they are not getting something, just out of a basic respect for other human beings - that even though they were all talking about the same topic the black people were saying something about that wasn't making sense to the white people - at the least I thought the white people would get that they weren't getting something.
But no, the white people kept asserting their viewpoint over and over again like it was the only possible conclusion about the topic that anybody could come to. It was weird to witness, and disturbing. Just like these several topics on SLOG related to the shooting at Chop Suey . . . there must be five topics on this going, and pretty much the same thing is happening on each of them.
It's disturbing, that with this much talk there can be this much failure to communicate, that with black and white people living in the same city - even sometimes the same neighborhood, they're living in two such different realities . . .
276
@ 263/265
What kind of 'educated black guy' (as if that's rare) are you dating that he has to 'ponder' with his white boyfriend what happened to the civil rights culture? It wasn't a fucking culture, it was a movement and they/we got our basic civil rights. Today, however, we have crack and therefore gangs and white folks think racism is dead and we are the cause of our own problems and slavery, drugs, etc should have no bearing on our culture at all. Not to blame all that, but come on, you can't say that it's not a BIG factor. We are in a whole different ball game that what our parents and grandparents were fighting 50 years ago. You might as well go around asking white folks why they aren't walking around like Donna Reed and rationing lipstick and cooking grease since we're at war.
Oh, and Africans aren't like African-Americans because they were NEVER SLAVES. Most other countries see a black American and they see us as the decedents of slaves. It's pretty blatant to them. But because we fear our own dark history, we don't see that basic truth about black Americans. That fact changes EVERYTHING. Seriously, if you don't know that simple, basic fact, then you are really really REALLY out of your league here.
What kind of 'educated black guy' (as if that's rare) are you dating that he has to 'ponder' with his white boyfriend what happened to the civil rights culture? It wasn't a fucking culture, it was a movement and they/we got our basic civil rights. Today, however, we have crack and therefore gangs and white folks think racism is dead and we are the cause of our own problems and slavery, drugs, etc should have no bearing on our culture at all. Not to blame all that, but come on, you can't say that it's not a BIG factor. We are in a whole different ball game that what our parents and grandparents were fighting 50 years ago. You might as well go around asking white folks why they aren't walking around like Donna Reed and rationing lipstick and cooking grease since we're at war.
Oh, and Africans aren't like African-Americans because they were NEVER SLAVES. Most other countries see a black American and they see us as the decedents of slaves. It's pretty blatant to them. But because we fear our own dark history, we don't see that basic truth about black Americans. That fact changes EVERYTHING. Seriously, if you don't know that simple, basic fact, then you are really really REALLY out of your league here.
277
@273 "I've been to rock concerts where fights have broken out. I've been to mosh pits in Germany and watched people get stomped out. Wait the Oktoberfest, and a few other events in Germany where fights had broken out.
Even knew about about a guy getting beat up at a bowling alley. Maybe we should've banned bowling then as well. I'm surprised that Football hasn't been banned either. I do remember seeing things happen at Seahawks games. But, I guess you wouldn't know of such things since you couldn't bring anything of relevance to the Slog."
Uh we're talking about murder, not little pissy drunken shoving matches. Your argument is useless.
@276 "Oh, and Africans aren't like African-Americans because they were NEVER SLAVES."
While I mostly agree with you, this statement is somewhat untrue, and not in the "well some Africans were slavers too!" racist talking point either, Europeans did a lot of fuckery with Africa well before and well after slavery in the USA.
Even knew about about a guy getting beat up at a bowling alley. Maybe we should've banned bowling then as well. I'm surprised that Football hasn't been banned either. I do remember seeing things happen at Seahawks games. But, I guess you wouldn't know of such things since you couldn't bring anything of relevance to the Slog."
Uh we're talking about murder, not little pissy drunken shoving matches. Your argument is useless.
@276 "Oh, and Africans aren't like African-Americans because they were NEVER SLAVES."
While I mostly agree with you, this statement is somewhat untrue, and not in the "well some Africans were slavers too!" racist talking point either, Europeans did a lot of fuckery with Africa well before and well after slavery in the USA.
278
"Oh, and Africans aren't like African-Americans because they were NEVER SLAVES."
Not necessarily in rebuttal to anything you said, but every single one of us here are descendants of slaves. Every one of us, undoubtedly. Most of us have managed to let that wound heal and stop defining ourselves culturally by this historic oppression, and also stopped forming our identities based off of a thing our great,great,great,grandparents went through.
There's not many people here who's predecessors owned slaves. That is, unless you actually are a descendant of slaves. In which case, it's highly likely that you're ALSO a descendant of plantation owners. In other words, your great, great, great, grandfather WAS a slave owner. The decision to culturally identify with the slave and not the owner is simply an illusion you have to sell yourself to maintain a claim on that social 'wound' that is slavery. In order to blame anyone else for the crimes of their forefathers you have to accept equal responsibility for your own.
Not necessarily in rebuttal to anything you said, but every single one of us here are descendants of slaves. Every one of us, undoubtedly. Most of us have managed to let that wound heal and stop defining ourselves culturally by this historic oppression, and also stopped forming our identities based off of a thing our great,great,great,grandparents went through.
There's not many people here who's predecessors owned slaves. That is, unless you actually are a descendant of slaves. In which case, it's highly likely that you're ALSO a descendant of plantation owners. In other words, your great, great, great, grandfather WAS a slave owner. The decision to culturally identify with the slave and not the owner is simply an illusion you have to sell yourself to maintain a claim on that social 'wound' that is slavery. In order to blame anyone else for the crimes of their forefathers you have to accept equal responsibility for your own.
279
Let me sum it all up into one final post for everyone here:
What happened saturday night at chop suey was a tragedy for all those involved. it affects everyone in the community, not just hip hop, its artists or its fans, or the families of the victims. it affects every last one of you. you sit here and crucify the hip hop community for this incident but how many of you actually know what happened? the victims involved? how many of you were actually there saturday night? how many of you are actively doing something about the violence? instead of just sitting on a message board talking about whats wrong with this city why don't you DO SOMETHING about it?
In case you are living under the rock that is this blog, someone was targeted from the get go on Saturday. That person happened to be at chop suey for this show. If the target went to a miley cyrus show, the shooter would have shown up to the miley cyrus show seeking the same results. In the end the target lived and two innocent bystanders are dead or in ICU. Yes, there is a problem with the glorification of guns and violence in hip hop. Yes, it needs to stop. But you cannot group everyone involved in hip hop into this stereotype. ESPECIALLY those in your own community. If any of you actually followed the local hip hop scene once in a while you would know that a vast majority of the music has nothing to do with gangbanging or violence. Alot of people involved in your local hip hop scene spend their free time working in the community to prevent this sort of violence from happening in the first place.
Show some respect for the the victims, friends and family, and everyone involved.
What happened saturday night at chop suey was a tragedy for all those involved. it affects everyone in the community, not just hip hop, its artists or its fans, or the families of the victims. it affects every last one of you. you sit here and crucify the hip hop community for this incident but how many of you actually know what happened? the victims involved? how many of you were actually there saturday night? how many of you are actively doing something about the violence? instead of just sitting on a message board talking about whats wrong with this city why don't you DO SOMETHING about it?
In case you are living under the rock that is this blog, someone was targeted from the get go on Saturday. That person happened to be at chop suey for this show. If the target went to a miley cyrus show, the shooter would have shown up to the miley cyrus show seeking the same results. In the end the target lived and two innocent bystanders are dead or in ICU. Yes, there is a problem with the glorification of guns and violence in hip hop. Yes, it needs to stop. But you cannot group everyone involved in hip hop into this stereotype. ESPECIALLY those in your own community. If any of you actually followed the local hip hop scene once in a while you would know that a vast majority of the music has nothing to do with gangbanging or violence. Alot of people involved in your local hip hop scene spend their free time working in the community to prevent this sort of violence from happening in the first place.
Show some respect for the the victims, friends and family, and everyone involved.
280
@m sea "If the target went to a miley cyrus show, the shooter would have shown up to the miley cyrus show seeking the same results."
If there were a string of violent acts performed at Miley Cyrus concerts on a near-monthly basis, along with a misogynistic homophobic crowd it drags with it, we'd be shouting to ban the tweentwat from Seattle as well.
"If any of you actually followed the local hip hop scene once in a while you would know that a vast majority of the music has nothing to do with gangbanging or violence."
I support that, but the kneejerk support of every communal element of hip hop is ridiculous. There is trash in every subculture. Maybe it's a Seattle passive-aggressive thing, I'm an East-coaster and I see douchebags get away with things that people'd never tolerate in Miami. And no, not in a "shoot them to their face" way, but just in not associating with destructive morons and getting surprised when they come back to fuck YOU over as well.
That said, I'm sorry that this happened, hopefully something good comes from the shit.
If there were a string of violent acts performed at Miley Cyrus concerts on a near-monthly basis, along with a misogynistic homophobic crowd it drags with it, we'd be shouting to ban the tweentwat from Seattle as well.
"If any of you actually followed the local hip hop scene once in a while you would know that a vast majority of the music has nothing to do with gangbanging or violence."
I support that, but the kneejerk support of every communal element of hip hop is ridiculous. There is trash in every subculture. Maybe it's a Seattle passive-aggressive thing, I'm an East-coaster and I see douchebags get away with things that people'd never tolerate in Miami. And no, not in a "shoot them to their face" way, but just in not associating with destructive morons and getting surprised when they come back to fuck YOU over as well.
That said, I'm sorry that this happened, hopefully something good comes from the shit.
281
#280 while i can agree that the hardcore glorification of violence and guns should not be promoted in ANY kind of music, i really would like examples of how violent acts are occuring on a near monthly basis at local hip hop shows.
i've gone to plenty of hip hop shows and this is the first time any thing like this has ever gone down.
honestly i think that the three posts that have been put up on this blog by the writers are actually misleading alot of people into believing that we stand silent on this subject. if anything they are causing more harm to the effort then helping it.
i've gone to plenty of hip hop shows and this is the first time any thing like this has ever gone down.
honestly i think that the three posts that have been put up on this blog by the writers are actually misleading alot of people into believing that we stand silent on this subject. if anything they are causing more harm to the effort then helping it.
282
the police are more worried about Porn than Violence in the Cap Hill area
...what a travisty that these promoters knowingly let these guys perform
...what a travisty that these promoters knowingly let these guys perform
284
Quote..."you gonna blame the capitol hill massacre at the rave on the music?
you gonna blame dimebag's death on stage on his music?"
Actually, both of those tragedies WERE somewhat related to the music. The Cap Hill rave nutter had issues with the rave lifestyle, and found his unfortunate victims to be somehow immoral. Dime's killer was upset over Pantera breaking up.
What makes these incidents different from the Chop Suey thing? Put simply, the rave guy and the Dime guy were both random nut jobs who had it out for ravers in general, and a few musicians who broke their heart, respectively, while the Chop Suey guys (like other shootings at hip hop nights in the last several years) specifically targeted certain people to whack over some perceived disrespect.
Contrary to popular belief, there are incidents of violence at shows featuring other styles of music. But these are mostly due to overconsumption, and usually don't get past the level of fisticuffs. I've seen fights at punk shows, metal shows, rockabilly shows, and several other types of shows. Not once has someone pulled a knife or gun.
It may not be PC to say as much, but the truth of the matter is that hip hop shows in Seattle have been "enter at your own risk" for years now. And yes, we all know that not only black youth listen to hip hop. Furthermore, we all (should) know that a group like Blue Scholars is about as much like 50 Cent as Merle Haggard is like Megadeth.
But the fact remains that for some reason some hip hop fans take the gangsta message to heart a little too much, and act out accordingly. In any popular artistic medium, there is a certain amount of hero worship, and behavior emulation. The problem with far too many hip hop fans is their inability to draw the line between acceptable emulation, like style of dress, and unacceptable emulation, like murder.
And yes, I realize that most rappers in reality likely wouldn't have a clue how to even load a gun. Yet when you glorify a lifestyle, you shouldn't be alarmed when it catches up to you. For example, Bon Scott (AC/DC's first singer) glorified drinking in song, and died choking on his own vomit after a binge.
Yet none of this accounts for the odd lunatic who thinks Judas Priest is speaking backward to him personally through their speakers, and takes a shotgun to their own head. Or the raver killer. Or even Dime's killer for that matter.
But it does at least offer a bit of insight to reasonable folks who would never commit such a heinous act, and serves as a warning that no matter how much YOU can separate the fantasy from reality, many hip hop fans can't. Tupac and Biggie are less idolized for their musical output than their respective images, much like misguided punks sadly idolize Sid Vicious. Truthfully, the real problem is how immature and quick to react with violence far too many people are, especially many younger folks. Throw in unhealthy doses of mindless idolatry, peer pressure, raging hormones, intoxicants, lack of education, and an underlying culture that glorifies antisocial behavior and misogeny and the time bomb explodes in the name of "keeping it real."
I write this from the perspective of a 41 year old white guy who remembers the early days of hip hop on the East Coast, when it was more about skills than lifestyle. Furthermore, while my tastes skew more to the rock side, I've seen my share of live hip hop shows, notably Public Enemy and Cypress Hill. And if you looked through my I Pod, you'll find NWA, RUN DMC, and Missy Elliot hanging out peacefully with Johnny Cash, Slayer, Jeff Buckley, Bruce Springsteen, The Ramones, and a whole lotta local bands.
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you gonna blame dimebag's death on stage on his music?"
Actually, both of those tragedies WERE somewhat related to the music. The Cap Hill rave nutter had issues with the rave lifestyle, and found his unfortunate victims to be somehow immoral. Dime's killer was upset over Pantera breaking up.
What makes these incidents different from the Chop Suey thing? Put simply, the rave guy and the Dime guy were both random nut jobs who had it out for ravers in general, and a few musicians who broke their heart, respectively, while the Chop Suey guys (like other shootings at hip hop nights in the last several years) specifically targeted certain people to whack over some perceived disrespect.
Contrary to popular belief, there are incidents of violence at shows featuring other styles of music. But these are mostly due to overconsumption, and usually don't get past the level of fisticuffs. I've seen fights at punk shows, metal shows, rockabilly shows, and several other types of shows. Not once has someone pulled a knife or gun.
It may not be PC to say as much, but the truth of the matter is that hip hop shows in Seattle have been "enter at your own risk" for years now. And yes, we all know that not only black youth listen to hip hop. Furthermore, we all (should) know that a group like Blue Scholars is about as much like 50 Cent as Merle Haggard is like Megadeth.
But the fact remains that for some reason some hip hop fans take the gangsta message to heart a little too much, and act out accordingly. In any popular artistic medium, there is a certain amount of hero worship, and behavior emulation. The problem with far too many hip hop fans is their inability to draw the line between acceptable emulation, like style of dress, and unacceptable emulation, like murder.
And yes, I realize that most rappers in reality likely wouldn't have a clue how to even load a gun. Yet when you glorify a lifestyle, you shouldn't be alarmed when it catches up to you. For example, Bon Scott (AC/DC's first singer) glorified drinking in song, and died choking on his own vomit after a binge.
Yet none of this accounts for the odd lunatic who thinks Judas Priest is speaking backward to him personally through their speakers, and takes a shotgun to their own head. Or the raver killer. Or even Dime's killer for that matter.
But it does at least offer a bit of insight to reasonable folks who would never commit such a heinous act, and serves as a warning that no matter how much YOU can separate the fantasy from reality, many hip hop fans can't. Tupac and Biggie are less idolized for their musical output than their respective images, much like misguided punks sadly idolize Sid Vicious. Truthfully, the real problem is how immature and quick to react with violence far too many people are, especially many younger folks. Throw in unhealthy doses of mindless idolatry, peer pressure, raging hormones, intoxicants, lack of education, and an underlying culture that glorifies antisocial behavior and misogeny and the time bomb explodes in the name of "keeping it real."
I write this from the perspective of a 41 year old white guy who remembers the early days of hip hop on the East Coast, when it was more about skills than lifestyle. Furthermore, while my tastes skew more to the rock side, I've seen my share of live hip hop shows, notably Public Enemy and Cypress Hill. And if you looked through my I Pod, you'll find NWA, RUN DMC, and Missy Elliot hanging out peacefully with Johnny Cash, Slayer, Jeff Buckley, Bruce Springsteen, The Ramones, and a whole lotta local bands.
285
Just to clarify, far more briefly than my earlier post: I don't think the music itself did anything to CAUSE the Chop Suey, rave nut, or Dimebag things. Unfortunately, there is at least a passing RELATION to music in each case that can make some people blame the music instead of the homicidal assholes who commited these murders. I am not one of those people.
286
hip-hop.. what do you expect?? cupcake swap or save the whales?? you go to these shows expect you could be a statistic..smoke a joint and "rock it .don"t gangsta fukit"
289
18 year old shooter is not white, looks black to me... http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/3776…
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