Slog
News & ArtsSunday, January 4, 2009
News Re: Shooting at Chop Suey
Posted by Charles Mudede on Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 1:37 PM
Update 3: One of the victims of the shooting has been released from the hospital. One man died from his injuries earlier this morning and another is still being treated for life-threatening injuries.Police say they've released one of the men arrested in relation to the shooting. Another man is being booked in to King County Jail for investigation of assault.
Police say they are still looking for another suspect.
There has been much talk about the Blue Wall of Silence, and not enough talk about its counterpart: the Black Wall of Silence, which on the street is called "no snitching." That code will do its best to shield the other suspect in the Chop Suey shooting from the law and add more fuel to this present cycle of violence.
As the PI recently reported:
Joplin was one of four juveniles killed in 2008. De'Che Morrison, who was found dead from a gunshot wound in South Seattle a week after Joplin's death, was the youngest, at 14. Pierre Lapoint, who was shot Aug. 5 on Rainier Avenue South, was 16. Quincy Coleman, who was shot to death on Halloween near Garfield High School, was 15.All these cases are among the nine linked to gang violence.
Police, hindered by the "no snitching" credo of gang culture, classify all four as unsolved and have been alerted to possible gang retaliation.
"None of this bodes well when we're looking to give kids a future," Kerlikowske said of the four deaths. "When we see this kind of an outcome, it's pretty devastating."
As the chief points out, the "no snitching" mentality has been a problem nationwide. FBI figures show that the homicide clearance rate dropped from 91 percent in 1963 — the first year records were kept in the manner they are now — to 61 percent in 2007, according to The Associated Press.
Unless this code of "no snitching" is destroyed or weakened, the homicide statistics in 2009 will pretty much be the same as the homicide statistics in 2008.
1
A glaring omission Charles.
Can we get the racial breakdown of those 28 perps.... err I mean victims?
Curious?
Can we get the racial breakdown of those 28 perps.... err I mean victims?
Curious?
2
Good post Charles, thanks.
One minute's googling (Yglesias in the Atlantic, homicide.png) revealed comparative rates in other cities.... in 2005 homicide the homicide rate per 100,000 population in 12 other cities ranged from a high of over 40 in Baltimore to 6.6 in NYC (benefitting from what looks like a long, steady decline. Gee, how'd they do that? ).
So in Seattle, 28 for what, 600,000 people -- that works out to about 4.6.
Pretty good, relative to others, but not relative to our own past. (Like everything else!)
But one wouldn't want it to keep rising.
One minute's googling (Yglesias in the Atlantic, homicide.png) revealed comparative rates in other cities.... in 2005 homicide the homicide rate per 100,000 population in 12 other cities ranged from a high of over 40 in Baltimore to 6.6 in NYC (benefitting from what looks like a long, steady decline. Gee, how'd they do that? ).
So in Seattle, 28 for what, 600,000 people -- that works out to about 4.6.
Pretty good, relative to others, but not relative to our own past. (Like everything else!)
But one wouldn't want it to keep rising.
3
Uh ... I disagree.
If you establish that 1) you can murder with impunity, and 1A) thereby establish that there is no legal recourse, you will not have the same homicide statistics.
They will be much worse.
If you establish that 1) you can murder with impunity, and 1A) thereby establish that there is no legal recourse, you will not have the same homicide statistics.
They will be much worse.
6
Hahhaha, De'Che .....That shit is comedy. Good thing his parents didnt call him Emmet Till,, Huh.
Fuck you Homey.
Fuck you Homey.
8
Why is it racist to ask the racial makeup of a study? The numbers don't lie. Race is a constant. They are are either White, Black, American Indian, Indian, Pacific Islander etc.
I think alot can be learned from the statistics. Charles included their ages and the locations of the crimes. Was it a simple omission of facts that he didn't include more?
I'm afraid some are overly concerned with the actual answer is. It belies their attempt at glossing over a potentially critical detail that might tell a part of a larger story.
We all know Charles is all about the larger story right?
Well Chuck? What's the scoop?
Can we also get a similar answer of the race of those committing the crime?
My curiousity at your level of candidness and honesty has also been piqued.
I think alot can be learned from the statistics. Charles included their ages and the locations of the crimes. Was it a simple omission of facts that he didn't include more?
I'm afraid some are overly concerned with the actual answer is. It belies their attempt at glossing over a potentially critical detail that might tell a part of a larger story.
We all know Charles is all about the larger story right?
Well Chuck? What's the scoop?
Can we also get a similar answer of the race of those committing the crime?
My curiousity at your level of candidness and honesty has also been piqued.
9
I highly recommend watching "The First 48" series on A&E, which is a great program dedicated to documenting the real tragedy of homicide around the country. It portrays the men and women who dedicate themselves day in and day out to cleaning up the aftermath of senseless and horrific violence, which is unfortunately all too common.
I feel that if you want to be entertained by random movies or tv shows with actors running around with guns like it's a cell phone, you should at least have the courage go volunteer at a real crime scene and help clean up the brain matter of some kids who's head has just been blown off.
I feel that if you want to be entertained by random movies or tv shows with actors running around with guns like it's a cell phone, you should at least have the courage go volunteer at a real crime scene and help clean up the brain matter of some kids who's head has just been blown off.
10
Black adult men make up about 3% of the USA but commit over 52% of all murders and over 34% of all rapes in our country.
According to the USDOJ, in the year 2005 alone, black men (3% of the population) raped or sexually assaulted over 37,460 white women. That same year, less than ten black women were raped or sexually assulted by white men, (and actually the number statistically approaches zero), but that didn't stop us from hearing non-stop for months in the media about the one white-on-black NON-rape case (the Duke Lacrosse fraud). Those numbers don't even include the number of white women raped by mestizos (Mexicans etc).
Be aware that the FBI and USDOJ count Mestizos (the proper ethnic term for most "Mexicans" or "Latinos") as being WHITE, which unfairly raises the reported "white crime rate" much higher than it actually is. Most Police Departments in the USA also do the same thing. Don't believe me? Check out the Sex Offender page of the Grand Prairie, Texas (a large suburb of Dallas) Police Department. Every non-white Mestizo like "Adrian Anguiano" is categorized as being "white":
http://www.grandprairiepolice.org/sexoff…
Just about every state and local agency does this. Here are some examples from Washington state. Do these guys look white to you???
http://ml.waspc.org/offender.aspx?pid=29…
http://ml.waspc.org/offender.aspx?pid=10…
=========
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/ra…
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/tab…
More...
According to the USDOJ, in the year 2005 alone, black men (3% of the population) raped or sexually assaulted over 37,460 white women. That same year, less than ten black women were raped or sexually assulted by white men, (and actually the number statistically approaches zero), but that didn't stop us from hearing non-stop for months in the media about the one white-on-black NON-rape case (the Duke Lacrosse fraud). Those numbers don't even include the number of white women raped by mestizos (Mexicans etc).
Be aware that the FBI and USDOJ count Mestizos (the proper ethnic term for most "Mexicans" or "Latinos") as being WHITE, which unfairly raises the reported "white crime rate" much higher than it actually is. Most Police Departments in the USA also do the same thing. Don't believe me? Check out the Sex Offender page of the Grand Prairie, Texas (a large suburb of Dallas) Police Department. Every non-white Mestizo like "Adrian Anguiano" is categorized as being "white":
http://www.grandprairiepolice.org/sexoff…
Just about every state and local agency does this. Here are some examples from Washington state. Do these guys look white to you???
http://ml.waspc.org/offender.aspx?pid=29…
http://ml.waspc.org/offender.aspx?pid=10…
=========
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/ra…
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/tab…
11
Statistics don't lie. They also don't make me responsible for the actions of others that look like me, any more than it makes Jews responsible for Madoff or whites responsible for Ken Lay et al. So if there's an underlying point behind all these pussyfooting citations and implications, man the fuck up and say it.
12
I don't know what the others above were implying, but it sure seems to me to justify profiling by race by law enforcement.
Those are exactly the types of outliers that statisticians use to explain causation.
Those are exactly the types of outliers that statisticians use to explain causation.
13
@10, yes, actually they do look white. As white as any Italian, Croatian or Greek you might run across.
14
Here in Omaha we had 44 Homicides 2008. A city pop of 450k or Metro 900k. The problem...unregistered guns!
http://omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2798&u…
I need to gets the hell outta here!
http://omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2798&u…
I need to gets the hell outta here!
15
@13 You're wrong. @10 has a point. That is a gross error in categorization. They should be categorized seperately as Hispanic.
Hispanic is not Anglo Caucasian. Let's keep the differentiation and then review the statistics on their own merit with the revisions.
Hispanic is not Anglo Caucasian. Let's keep the differentiation and then review the statistics on their own merit with the revisions.
16
@14 You are an idiot Frank. You might want to consider going back to school in Omaha for a bit before coming back to posting on a big boys forum in Seattle.
This post is blatantly off topic having nothing to do with Seattle, but I'll spend a moment to enlighten you.
Unregistered guns aren't the issue, and your police chief is a moron of the highest degree.
With the vast majority of your homicides being gang related (as reported), do you honestly believe that the gangs are going to legally register their guns just because there is a law?
Furthermore rocket scientist, most of the homicides happened in NE Omaha. You tell me about the demographic makeup of that area of town. Who makes up most of the population?
Once again we have a prime example of folks being too PC and ignoring the obvious important statistics that tell us a LOT about who is doing the crime in a given area.
Thanks for proving a point.
This post is blatantly off topic having nothing to do with Seattle, but I'll spend a moment to enlighten you.
Unregistered guns aren't the issue, and your police chief is a moron of the highest degree.
With the vast majority of your homicides being gang related (as reported), do you honestly believe that the gangs are going to legally register their guns just because there is a law?
Furthermore rocket scientist, most of the homicides happened in NE Omaha. You tell me about the demographic makeup of that area of town. Who makes up most of the population?
Once again we have a prime example of folks being too PC and ignoring the obvious important statistics that tell us a LOT about who is doing the crime in a given area.
Thanks for proving a point.
17
Off racism and back to snitching...All Souls, by Michael Patrick MacDonald, is a pretty amazing account of the roles of silence and loyalty in the disenfranchisement of a neighborhood.
18
Oh goody, the racist gun nuts from the PI Sound Offs found The Slog! This is the same cut-and-paste garbage they post after every article. More patient people than I have debunked those stats regurgitated @10 (he/she posts that paragraph every chance they get).
Also from the previous Slog post on this incident, weren't at least one victim and one shooter white? How does that fit into Mudede's views? (we already know how the racist morons would respond, so don't bother)
Also from the previous Slog post on this incident, weren't at least one victim and one shooter white? How does that fit into Mudede's views? (we already know how the racist morons would respond, so don't bother)
19
I explain risk management to people with a fictitious game of chance:
There are two containers with an equal number of marbles of different colors. Both include the dreaded “orange marbles” (a.k.a. “the death marbles”). Pick a single marble from either container while blindfolded. If you draw an orange marble (the death marble), you will lose your life. One of the containers holds nine times as many death marbles. Now pick a marble, but you may ask me one question first. What is your question?
Any rational, sane person would ask, “Which container has nine times as many death marbles,” so that he may avoid that container.
That’s the game of life. Yes, all races have good and bad people, but one race has a far higher percentage of high risk, deadly people. Every metric in existence verifies that fact.
There are two containers with an equal number of marbles of different colors. Both include the dreaded “orange marbles” (a.k.a. “the death marbles”). Pick a single marble from either container while blindfolded. If you draw an orange marble (the death marble), you will lose your life. One of the containers holds nine times as many death marbles. Now pick a marble, but you may ask me one question first. What is your question?
Any rational, sane person would ask, “Which container has nine times as many death marbles,” so that he may avoid that container.
That’s the game of life. Yes, all races have good and bad people, but one race has a far higher percentage of high risk, deadly people. Every metric in existence verifies that fact.
20
Comments 5 and 6 are very offensive.
@ 19 but you need to account for the fact that one race has spent a lot of decades (and centuries) making sure that another race has less resources, less opportunity and less ability to prevent an increase in risk and violence.
They do this because they think they can get away with it, that they aren't too affected by it. But it comes around.
At the least, how much of our tax dollars continue to be spent on the effects of this violence that could be spent on providing healthcare for all or more affordable housing or better education? An awful lot!
@ 19 but you need to account for the fact that one race has spent a lot of decades (and centuries) making sure that another race has less resources, less opportunity and less ability to prevent an increase in risk and violence.
They do this because they think they can get away with it, that they aren't too affected by it. But it comes around.
At the least, how much of our tax dollars continue to be spent on the effects of this violence that could be spent on providing healthcare for all or more affordable housing or better education? An awful lot!
21
Those fucking hipsters! God I am so sick of hipsters shooting each other up outside clubs on Capitol Hill!! Fuckers!!!
Oh wait... it wasn't hipsters? Goddamn gays!!! Fucking fudge packers! Why can't they just get a grip? Why is there always gun violence outside gay bars and gay club nights on the Hill?
Oh wait... it wasn't the gays?
Must have been...
Oh wait... it wasn't hipsters? Goddamn gays!!! Fucking fudge packers! Why can't they just get a grip? Why is there always gun violence outside gay bars and gay club nights on the Hill?
Oh wait... it wasn't the gays?
Must have been...
22
Dear racists:
What do you want? Nobody is arguing violence is a bigger problem with black people in America. Are you trying to solve the problem -- with increased investment in black communities? Greater integration? Youth outreach? Or do you just want to discriminate against black people or just try and prove that white people are superior (and by your logic, I guess Asian-Americans even more superior)?
If you want to single out a violent group - how about men? Men are less than half the population yet commit more than 90% of violent crime - usually close to 100%. Whatever hatred you want to spew at those scary black people, spew at the men in your life first.
What do you want? Nobody is arguing violence is a bigger problem with black people in America. Are you trying to solve the problem -- with increased investment in black communities? Greater integration? Youth outreach? Or do you just want to discriminate against black people or just try and prove that white people are superior (and by your logic, I guess Asian-Americans even more superior)?
If you want to single out a violent group - how about men? Men are less than half the population yet commit more than 90% of violent crime - usually close to 100%. Whatever hatred you want to spew at those scary black people, spew at the men in your life first.
23
that homicide in view ridge is actually only a body dumped in view ridge. that latino kid was jacked in bellevue after school for his paycheck & killed elsewhere.
still, view ridge is dangerous - stay out!
still, view ridge is dangerous - stay out!
24
@22, um, what the fuck do you think has been going on in this country since the 60's? We can pander all we want, but as long as we keep babying black people, they will keep taking advantage of the rest of us. Why can Asian immigrants come here with zero language and zero money, and yet still somehow manage to make a life for themselves, while blacks that are born here just flush it all down the toilet?
25
"We can pander all we want, but as long as we keep babying black people, they will keep taking advantage of the rest of us."
Blah blah blah Sarah Palin 2012 blah.
Blah blah blah Sarah Palin 2012 blah.
26
@22 I think we've had 3 or 4 generations and more than half a century to integrate the black race into society. It is readily apparent that they either don't want to integrate happily with the rest of us Asians, Caucasians, Indians, Anglos, Native Americans, Pacific Islanders. Therefore it is time to draw a line in the sand.
They apparently want to play by a different set of rules, so let's make a different set of rules for them.
First of all we need to phase out any laws, programs or rules that give them advantages. We also need to outlaw the NAACP, United Negro College Fund, racial preference for minorities, hiring preferences, preference for minority owned businesses etc. Let's make EVERYONE play on an even playing field in all ways in American Society. We claim equal rights for all, yet then we setup all these extra advantages for those who obviously can't succeed even when given extra priveleges. Enough. I'm tired of supporting and paying for them.
And don't tell me Waahhhhh but the white man has this huge advantage blah blah blah. Screw it. There are so many white, asian, indian, pink, purple, polka dot folks that have no advantages either. The time has come to say ENOUGH.
We then need to put 3 strike felony laws into place. Enough with the slaps on the wrist. Or if you commit 1 felony in an aggravated fashion with a weapon, you get 1 struck and you get life without parole. If it happens on camera you get fast tracked for the death penalty if found guilty.
Our society has regressed into a lawless state. Lawless in the sense that we have created so many loopholes, and so many ways to get 2nd, 3rd, 4th chances it is pathetic to honest law abiding folks who have ZERO problems with crime.
We've become a nation of dependent whiners who want everything for nothing. We create advantages for everyone who is not white.
What will happen within 10 years when the white male is the official minority in the United States? Will we all of a sudden create laws to make sure that minority has a greater than equal chance to succeed against the evil majority?
I honestly have no hatred against any individual. I have a hatred against US Society that gives all these fools so many chances to succeed and they end up instead just pissing it down their leg.
At this point with all the statistical data to back it up, I think the United States needs to hold black men to a higher standard than any other group. Sorry but they have had SO many chances. We now know that they make up a HUGE proportion of the violent crime committed in the United States. Therefore we need to make an exception that holds them to a higher standard, and submits them to higher penalties if they commit violent felonies with weapons involved. I realize this goes against the Constitution, but I believe it is the ONLY way to REALLY get their attention. Black men need a SERIOUS reality check on their unacceptable behavior.
It is time we take a stand against the disproportionate amount of violent felonies commited by them. Statistics don't lie. We need to hold them to a higher standard.
More...
They apparently want to play by a different set of rules, so let's make a different set of rules for them.
First of all we need to phase out any laws, programs or rules that give them advantages. We also need to outlaw the NAACP, United Negro College Fund, racial preference for minorities, hiring preferences, preference for minority owned businesses etc. Let's make EVERYONE play on an even playing field in all ways in American Society. We claim equal rights for all, yet then we setup all these extra advantages for those who obviously can't succeed even when given extra priveleges. Enough. I'm tired of supporting and paying for them.
And don't tell me Waahhhhh but the white man has this huge advantage blah blah blah. Screw it. There are so many white, asian, indian, pink, purple, polka dot folks that have no advantages either. The time has come to say ENOUGH.
We then need to put 3 strike felony laws into place. Enough with the slaps on the wrist. Or if you commit 1 felony in an aggravated fashion with a weapon, you get 1 struck and you get life without parole. If it happens on camera you get fast tracked for the death penalty if found guilty.
Our society has regressed into a lawless state. Lawless in the sense that we have created so many loopholes, and so many ways to get 2nd, 3rd, 4th chances it is pathetic to honest law abiding folks who have ZERO problems with crime.
We've become a nation of dependent whiners who want everything for nothing. We create advantages for everyone who is not white.
What will happen within 10 years when the white male is the official minority in the United States? Will we all of a sudden create laws to make sure that minority has a greater than equal chance to succeed against the evil majority?
I honestly have no hatred against any individual. I have a hatred against US Society that gives all these fools so many chances to succeed and they end up instead just pissing it down their leg.
At this point with all the statistical data to back it up, I think the United States needs to hold black men to a higher standard than any other group. Sorry but they have had SO many chances. We now know that they make up a HUGE proportion of the violent crime committed in the United States. Therefore we need to make an exception that holds them to a higher standard, and submits them to higher penalties if they commit violent felonies with weapons involved. I realize this goes against the Constitution, but I believe it is the ONLY way to REALLY get their attention. Black men need a SERIOUS reality check on their unacceptable behavior.
It is time we take a stand against the disproportionate amount of violent felonies commited by them. Statistics don't lie. We need to hold them to a higher standard.
27
@26, lawless? exactly what do you understand by lawlessness? black males shooting black males? a jewish ceo stealing 50 billion dollars. a white politician totally fabricating an enemy to initiate a trillion dollar war that kills over 4000 americans? and which is worse? which is doing the most harm to your society, to your white people? the black gangsters in da club? i, sir, accuse you of being more emotional than rational.
28
I'd much rather have my life savings ripped off by a jewish ceo every single day of my life than get shot by another black male... I can always crash on my friends couch if I'm broke! Can't do that dead.
29
@27 I believe he said he was talking strictly about felonies committed violently with a weapon.
I'm not going to read into his words or speak for him but that is what it appears to me.
fwiw I tend to agree with him. It is time something is done.
If you were asking me which one was worse, i'd say that violent crime in society done directly assaulting another individual is a far worse crime than any white collar crime or someting that happens politically 5,000 miles away.
He may be emotional mudede but I can see his point.
I'm not going to read into his words or speak for him but that is what it appears to me.
fwiw I tend to agree with him. It is time something is done.
If you were asking me which one was worse, i'd say that violent crime in society done directly assaulting another individual is a far worse crime than any white collar crime or someting that happens politically 5,000 miles away.
He may be emotional mudede but I can see his point.
30
Wow. I mean... wow. Did I somehow miss-type the URL and wind up at the White Aryan Resistance website?
To Charles' point: "Who do I look like Snitchy McRat? I don't talk to police!"- Riley Freeman.
To Charles' point: "Who do I look like Snitchy McRat? I don't talk to police!"- Riley Freeman.
31
You Seattle Wimps amaze me.
One crime in one local area and you go to pieces. A crime around here is the same as snowfall -- you guys wet your pants and squawk like pigeons!
Do you know what it was like to grow up in a neighborhood where nearby streets were DMZ zone demarkations? Where walking into the wrong neighborhood was like walking into a minefield.
Where you get on the transit system, and rode hands at your sides, face down so as not to get some guy angry and shoot you?
To have your bike stolen as a 7th grader at knifepoint?
To have your dad mugged as in knocked out with a blow to the head from behind and have his wallet stole while walking home from the subway stop to your house?
Conversely all this easy living has made you the biggest, laziest, stupidest bunch of white folk in the whole country. I could take people randomly from places like Ballard and Renton, drop them into the NYC metro area and most would end up being selling bottles and living in an abandoned building in Bed-Sty or else in a mentally disabled hospital.
One crime in one local area and you go to pieces. A crime around here is the same as snowfall -- you guys wet your pants and squawk like pigeons!
Do you know what it was like to grow up in a neighborhood where nearby streets were DMZ zone demarkations? Where walking into the wrong neighborhood was like walking into a minefield.
Where you get on the transit system, and rode hands at your sides, face down so as not to get some guy angry and shoot you?
To have your bike stolen as a 7th grader at knifepoint?
To have your dad mugged as in knocked out with a blow to the head from behind and have his wallet stole while walking home from the subway stop to your house?
Conversely all this easy living has made you the biggest, laziest, stupidest bunch of white folk in the whole country. I could take people randomly from places like Ballard and Renton, drop them into the NYC metro area and most would end up being selling bottles and living in an abandoned building in Bed-Sty or else in a mentally disabled hospital.
32
hey slug what kind of people live in those bad parts of town in them big bad cities youz tawkin bout?
33
@ 29, seattle has 600000 people. last year there were 29 murders. the bulk of which were black on black violence or violence against women, and you have the nerve to agree with a person who says this:
Our society has regressed into a lawless state. Lawless in the sense that we have created so many loopholes, and so many ways to get 2nd, 3rd, 4th chances it is pathetic to honest law abiding folks who have ZERO problems with crime.
please, be rational.
Our society has regressed into a lawless state. Lawless in the sense that we have created so many loopholes, and so many ways to get 2nd, 3rd, 4th chances it is pathetic to honest law abiding folks who have ZERO problems with crime.
please, be rational.
35
Seattle is full of wimps because we'd rather not get mugged/shot/killed/etc. I see.
Slug, please take your thuggish ruggish bones back to whichever city it is where it's unsafe to ride public transit. The rest of us would like to live in a nice place.
Living in a shitty town isn't a badge of honor.
Slug, please take your thuggish ruggish bones back to whichever city it is where it's unsafe to ride public transit. The rest of us would like to live in a nice place.
Living in a shitty town isn't a badge of honor.
36
#15 Omaha hater Do you know me?? I'm quite aware most of Omaha's homicides are in North O. Therefore the true problem is nobody cares since it's not in there neighborhood and seen as black on black crime.
2nd I was noting Omaha is a 3rd of the size of Seattle with more homicides...
why so serious? :)
2nd I was noting Omaha is a 3rd of the size of Seattle with more homicides...
why so serious? :)
37
@31 - to answer your question, no. Most of us moved here as to not put up with your brand of stupidity. I still can, if I stay away from certain clubs on certain nights. But, I can (and have) taken public transit, late at nite, in almost every major city in this country and lived to enjoy it.
Keep acting like a thug, and you too will be selected for disposal - either by your own hand, your own people, or a cop. Your choice.
Keep acting like a thug, and you too will be selected for disposal - either by your own hand, your own people, or a cop. Your choice.
38
@31
Not sure what any of that has to do with the post..homicide remember?
Sorry that your dad got the piss knocked out of him but I'm afraid that happens the world over.
Not sure what any of that has to do with the post..homicide remember?
Sorry that your dad got the piss knocked out of him but I'm afraid that happens the world over.
39
Charles, excellent post.
But, what followed were the worst comments I've ever seen on Slog. I know it's a Sunday and all, but is everyone with a brain taking the night off?
@26 - You are a chicken-shit and should not live in a city. Or any place with people.
@30 - Good to see your post, Big Sven. I thought I was on the wrong site too.
@10 - I hope, for the sake of idiocy containment, that you are the person as @26 using a different name.
Alright, that's all I got. I need more intellectual stimulation than Slog is providing tonight, so I'm going to go read some YouTube comments.
But, what followed were the worst comments I've ever seen on Slog. I know it's a Sunday and all, but is everyone with a brain taking the night off?
@26 - You are a chicken-shit and should not live in a city. Or any place with people.
@30 - Good to see your post, Big Sven. I thought I was on the wrong site too.
@10 - I hope, for the sake of idiocy containment, that you are the person as @26 using a different name.
Alright, that's all I got. I need more intellectual stimulation than Slog is providing tonight, so I'm going to go read some YouTube comments.
40
Hi Mahtli69 -
Why is #10 an idiot for posting statistics straight from the USDOJ?
=============
Mahtli69 wrote - "Alright, that's all I got."
- Clearly. All you have is insults since you have no way to refute the facts presented.
Why is #10 an idiot for posting statistics straight from the USDOJ?
=============
Mahtli69 wrote - "Alright, that's all I got."
- Clearly. All you have is insults since you have no way to refute the facts presented.
41
Statistics don't lie, people using statistics do:
"Black adult men make up about 3% of the USA but commit over 52% of all murders and over 34% of all rapes in our country."
That would be 52% of murder CONVICTIONS and 34% of rape CONVICTIONS. The majority of rapes go unreported to the police, especially when the victim knows the assailant, and those cases are far more likely to be same race crimes. African Americans are charged with more serious crimes under similar circumstances than whites, are more likely to be convicted, and are twice as likely to be exonerated by DNA than whites.
Having read the Slog comments today, I have never felt so uncomfortable about living in Seattle.
"Black adult men make up about 3% of the USA but commit over 52% of all murders and over 34% of all rapes in our country."
That would be 52% of murder CONVICTIONS and 34% of rape CONVICTIONS. The majority of rapes go unreported to the police, especially when the victim knows the assailant, and those cases are far more likely to be same race crimes. African Americans are charged with more serious crimes under similar circumstances than whites, are more likely to be convicted, and are twice as likely to be exonerated by DNA than whites.
Having read the Slog comments today, I have never felt so uncomfortable about living in Seattle.
43
"insults are not arguments & don't make facts vanish"
yet no response to my point. those crime facts are nothing when compared to other forms of violence perpetuated by men who are not black? which black man has stolen 50 billion bucks just like that! which? and you do not consider that form of crime as violent? that the lives disrupted in that crime are all rich and having a ball? no, no, no: you picked those statistics not because they tell us something about this society but because they tell us something about you.
yet no response to my point. those crime facts are nothing when compared to other forms of violence perpetuated by men who are not black? which black man has stolen 50 billion bucks just like that! which? and you do not consider that form of crime as violent? that the lives disrupted in that crime are all rich and having a ball? no, no, no: you picked those statistics not because they tell us something about this society but because they tell us something about you.
44
Mahtli69, I notice that you and I are among the only "regulars" on this thread.
Every so often I think a SLOG thread gets hijacked by a link from some loon site, as clearly happened with the famous "Dumbledore=gay" thread. I don't think we have extrapolate anything about Seattle from the nature of this conversation.
Now, if Jube or Fnarf or even Reality Check or Bellevue comes on and says "fuck the black man," well then it's time to head for the hills.
Every so often I think a SLOG thread gets hijacked by a link from some loon site, as clearly happened with the famous "Dumbledore=gay" thread. I don't think we have extrapolate anything about Seattle from the nature of this conversation.
Now, if Jube or Fnarf or even Reality Check or Bellevue comes on and says "fuck the black man," well then it's time to head for the hills.
45
"black wall," like the walls of your bowels that you just pulled that shit phrase out of? or are you just trying to gain a pair of journalistic nuts by coining a trite phrase on the heels of this tragedy? either way, fail.
47
@40 - The only statistic was about the percentage of adult black males in the US vs the disproportionate murder and crime rates. @10 didn't mention that they are mostly killing and raping each other.
Then, @10 threw out a number: the total number of rapes against white women by black men. Why change from percentage to number for this statistic? And why not mention the number of rapes committed by white men against white women? Did @10 use a statistic without any context for comparison due to stupidity or was @10 trying to be misleading? You be the judge.
@10 then magically uses this collection of useless information to rail about how Mexicans shouldn't be considered white. Finally, we reached what I think the point of the post was, and it is this: These sex offenders are not white enough to be considered white. But, why didn't @10 post any pictures of white sex offenders so we could compare?
Me calling @10 an idiot is me giving @10 the benefit of the doubt about whether @10 is purposely trying to make points based on meaningless and misleading statistics.
Charles nailed it: "no, no, no: you picked those statistics not because they tell us something about this society but because they tell us something about you."
Then, @10 threw out a number: the total number of rapes against white women by black men. Why change from percentage to number for this statistic? And why not mention the number of rapes committed by white men against white women? Did @10 use a statistic without any context for comparison due to stupidity or was @10 trying to be misleading? You be the judge.
@10 then magically uses this collection of useless information to rail about how Mexicans shouldn't be considered white. Finally, we reached what I think the point of the post was, and it is this: These sex offenders are not white enough to be considered white. But, why didn't @10 post any pictures of white sex offenders so we could compare?
Me calling @10 an idiot is me giving @10 the benefit of the doubt about whether @10 is purposely trying to make points based on meaningless and misleading statistics.
Charles nailed it: "no, no, no: you picked those statistics not because they tell us something about this society but because they tell us something about you."
48
the real hipsters got jobs. what's with all these holier than thou BS? Tossing an insult doesn't make you right. you are part of racism even if you think you are on the "good side." Read some Martin Luther King and open your cynical-aren't-you-just-perfect minds. The same people who talk about how 'sad' racism in the US are, are the same people who presume white people are better (or supposed to be) than people of any other color. THAT is the essence of racism.
Slaves being bought and transported to the US was terribly wrong. What about innocent happy families being captured by a warring tribe in Africa and tortured and made into a slave a sold to be shipped off? Why aren't those black man held accountable (historically) for slavery? One Slave holder and slave-maker was black, one slave-holder was white. Who gets the bad rap for slavery? Slavery is slavery.
Slaves being bought and transported to the US was terribly wrong. What about innocent happy families being captured by a warring tribe in Africa and tortured and made into a slave a sold to be shipped off? Why aren't those black man held accountable (historically) for slavery? One Slave holder and slave-maker was black, one slave-holder was white. Who gets the bad rap for slavery? Slavery is slavery.
49
I seem to remember reading that the violent crime rate hasn't really changed in the U.S. since the Old West days. I think a lot of those cowboy gunslinger guys were white. At different times, there have been disproportionately high murder rates among Irish, Italians, Russians... pretty much whoever ran the crime syndicates at different times. And in those times, I'm sure d-bags like the ones who posted above railed against the races deemed responsible for the violent crimes. But the problem of crime is a complicated one, and only a simpleton would blame an entire race for the problem. If there is a disproportionately high rate of crime among a certain race, more than likely there will be a disproportionately high rate of victimization of the same race. If you want to pretend that slavery, Jim Crow laws, segregation and racism have nothing to do with the present-day status of African Americans, that's fine. But it's pretty obvious to me that high crime rates/victim rates among African Americans is evidence that the black community continues to be victimized by this legacy, not that blacks are victimizing us whites!
50
Thugs die young (37) do you think Seattle is just a suburb to move to and escape to. MOST of us did not always move here exactly as you did. I was born here and I'm not the only one. Not everyone is like you, not even MOST people are like you. It's people with your attitude that have ruined the independent and diverse spirit of Seattle and turned it into some cliche' hipster Real World. If all you want is people like you, try gazing in the mirror or lose your self in the "depths" of Project Runway, like your probably already do. But please think, even just a little, before you speak. And Yes, come join us to build a community (not a suburb) where we can all be safe.
52
More...
hmmm... I kinda hate to be seen on this thread, but just for clarity sake someone should probably note...
@1 & 8:
R.I.F.!!! (Reading Is Fundamental, m'boy)
Charles did not include racial data on the chart because it wasn't his chart!
If you had been even a slightly careful reader you would have noticed the phrase "As the PI recently reported" or possibly even wondered over the type at the bottom right of the little map which reads, quite mysteriously and all in caps, "SEATTLE P-I". But you are not a careful reader, my friend. You are a sad little Troll.
And now just look at the evil your ignorance and inattention has wrought down upon this noble Slog!
Oh. for. shame!!!
And @19, 20, and several other posts:
Please, people, it's 2009... quit conflating RACE with CULTUTRE!
Although there may be a great deal of overlap, the two are quite different things; whereas "race" demarks ethnic origins or hereditary traits, "culture" distinguishes between different social groups and their learned norms & customs.
Charles is making a commentary on the self-destructive nature of a memetic complex currently madly propigating within "black culture" ("no snitchin'" namely) and how it is likely to drive that offshoot of the social network straight into a blind cul`d sac of socio-evolutionary extinction.
And it needs to be said...
...that here, in Seattle, "Black Culture" (blac'ulturé?) is as likely as not to be populated by racially Asian, Islander or -- middle-class, suburban -- White kids as by those racially identified as "Black".
54
T"hat would be 52% of murder CONVICTIONS and 34% of rape CONVICTIONS. The majority of rapes go unreported to the police, especially when the victim knows the assailant, and those cases are far more likely to be same race crimes."
==========
This logically means that the black crime situation is EVEN WORSE than what the government stats say.
I don't think you realize that you just destroyed your own argument, but you did.
==========
This logically means that the black crime situation is EVEN WORSE than what the government stats say.
I don't think you realize that you just destroyed your own argument, but you did.
55
""insults are not arguments & don't make facts vanish"
yet no response to my point. those crime facts are nothing when compared to other forms of violence perpetuated by men who are not black? which black man has stolen 50 billion bucks just like that! which? and you do not consider that form of crime as violent? that the lives disrupted in that crime are all rich and having a ball? no, no, no: you picked those statistics not because they tell us something about this society but because they tell us something about you."
=========
Like I wrote before, mudede, I would much rather have my life savings get ripped off every single day of my life by a white CEO than get raped or killed by anyone of any race.
You are the one getting all emotional because your race is implicated in savagery, and we are not even mentioning the crime and baby-rape and genocide of Africa, we are just discussing blacks in the USA (wanna get into Africa?), and you have no logical way to argue against the facts, thus you resort to nonsensical comparisons of savage black rapist murderers to white jew CEOs who commit financial crimes.
Calling someone a "racist" is a leftist's most graceless way of admitting they have lost the argument.
The truth is "hate" to those who hate the truth.
yet no response to my point. those crime facts are nothing when compared to other forms of violence perpetuated by men who are not black? which black man has stolen 50 billion bucks just like that! which? and you do not consider that form of crime as violent? that the lives disrupted in that crime are all rich and having a ball? no, no, no: you picked those statistics not because they tell us something about this society but because they tell us something about you."
=========
Like I wrote before, mudede, I would much rather have my life savings get ripped off every single day of my life by a white CEO than get raped or killed by anyone of any race.
You are the one getting all emotional because your race is implicated in savagery, and we are not even mentioning the crime and baby-rape and genocide of Africa, we are just discussing blacks in the USA (wanna get into Africa?), and you have no logical way to argue against the facts, thus you resort to nonsensical comparisons of savage black rapist murderers to white jew CEOs who commit financial crimes.
Calling someone a "racist" is a leftist's most graceless way of admitting they have lost the argument.
The truth is "hate" to those who hate the truth.
56
54: Not so much -- conviction rates for violent and drug crimes have been convincingly shown to have a strong racial bias against black and latino defendants. Now, that's likely partially a result of the fact that black and latino defendants are much less likely to be able to afford an effective defense than white defendants, but not entirely.
57
@49: violent crime rates in the US have been falling steadily since a peak in 1991; they are now lower than they have been at any time since 1970. Which means that 2008 was the safest year (wrt violent crime) in the lives of most of the people reading this. Think on that kids.
58
I can only hope that all you naive white Seattle liberals end up paying the RANDOM DIVERSITY TAX (robbery, assault, or murder by nonwhites) in some spectacular way.
60
@55 - Worldwide in the last 2000 years, whites have killed more people than every other race combined. Who are you accusing of "savagery"?
61
@60: Don't let your stupid show -- for most of the past 2000 years, Europe was a backward, dirt-farming ass-pimple on the west end of Asia; they just weren't capable of getting their murder on to the same extent as their neighbors to the east and southeast.
Besides, it's a stupid game to play. Everyone's ancestors did something nasty to someone else's ancestors, and in turn had something nasty done to them. Most of human history is depressing that way. Better to concentrate on current conditions and the history that produced them rather than rehashing every war and atrocity in human history for intarweb points.
Besides, it's a stupid game to play. Everyone's ancestors did something nasty to someone else's ancestors, and in turn had something nasty done to them. Most of human history is depressing that way. Better to concentrate on current conditions and the history that produced them rather than rehashing every war and atrocity in human history for intarweb points.
62
@60 - probably not true, especially considering Africa. Even so it just means we are better at war & technology, just like we are at everything else.
63
According to USDOJ website:
From 1976 to 2005 --
86% of white victims were killed by whites
94% of black victims were killed by blacks
Why don't you spew this kind of vitriol at the people who are actually most likely to kill you?
From 1976 to 2005 --
86% of white victims were killed by whites
94% of black victims were killed by blacks
Why don't you spew this kind of vitriol at the people who are actually most likely to kill you?
64
Yes - but do take into account when viewing those percentages that all blacks in the USA (young & old, both sexes) make up only about 12 to 13 percent of the population. Whites make up about 75% of the USA. Thus the amount of violent crime per-capita committed by blacks is absolutely staggering. Add into the mix the mis-categorization of non-whites as being "white" and things are totally fucked. USA = The Turd World.
65
http://www.familywatchdog.us/ShowNameLis…
You can see lots of non-whites being categorized as "white" at the National Sex Offender Registry.
You can see lots of non-whites being categorized as "white" at the National Sex Offender Registry.
66
@20 "You need to account for the fact that one race has spent a lot of decades (and centuries) making sure that another race has less resources, less opportunity and less ability to prevent an increase in risk and violence."
This old saw does not play anymore (if it ever really did). Please see: "Barack Obama".
Though I find it quaint to think that you believe that, if left unmolested by the white man, these people would have more resources, more opportunity and a better ability to prevent an increase in risk and violence in there grass huts along the lower stretches of the Congo River.
Laughable!
This old saw does not play anymore (if it ever really did). Please see: "Barack Obama".
Though I find it quaint to think that you believe that, if left unmolested by the white man, these people would have more resources, more opportunity and a better ability to prevent an increase in risk and violence in there grass huts along the lower stretches of the Congo River.
Laughable!
67
R U kidding me?!
Only 28 people were murdered in Seattle last year?
That is fucking phenomenally low for a city, isn't it?
Only 28 people were murdered in Seattle last year?
That is fucking phenomenally low for a city, isn't it?
68
I'm all for intelligent debates on race/crime/SOLUTIONS...but just to remind everyone that the crime that spurred this whole firestorm of...whatever it's turned into, WAS NOT PERPETRATED BY BLACK PEOPLE!!!!! NOT ONE!!!!! The victim was a WHITE HIP HOP ARTIST...WHITE!!! HIP HOP!!!!! yes, they can exist in the same sentence!!!! White,Black,Latino,Martian,and any other race in this country has much too readily accepted deadly violence as an option for what is almost 100% of the time, the most idiotic grievances!!!! I have been to many other countries. They get just as pissed off and have violent streaks in their blood....but the fact is, it is much easier to run away from someone with a knife or a fist than someone spraying gunfire!!! Why is murder such a viable and realistic option for people? And why do we feel that as long as it's nobody we know....too bad?!? We need to fucking care about each other!!!! It's just a sad state of human kind when there is neither humanity nor kindness shown to our neighbors in society. Look up murder statistics for other countries....many don't have a murder rate for THE ENTIRE COUNTRY that is as high as some U.S cities. It outrageous, disgusting, and shameful...we are better, and must do better...
70
P.S. I am white. And I know that I have white privilege. I can't stand other white people who are ignorant to the fact that life IS easier for them since they have white skin. Have you ever been pulled over by a black police officer? Been interviewed for a job by a black person? Ever bought a Hallmark card depicting a black person on it? You know...white people are really ignorant to the advantages they have based on their skin color. It's really sad. How about White Flight? Heard of that? How the fear that black people moving into a neighborhood will cause property values to drop, for crime to increase? Well, white people leave and the area turns into a ghetto. All the white people blasting their racist, ignorant shit on here...WAKE UP!!!!!!
72
"Racist" may feel as if it's used when someone doesn't have anything else left to argue, and that's probably because it is a last-ditch argument. If you've been accused of it in your life then that means that your accuser tried (in vain) to believe that your hurtful words stemmed from ignorance or misguidance. But, after a few rounds of back and forth, your accuser realized that deep down you ARE racist. It wasn't that you didn't have all of the facts, as your accuser hoped. It's that you have a wall up. One that prevents you from understanding things that don't happen to you. If you don't experience it then it mustn't be true. That kind of wall. And the accusation was a last resort, it was there way of saying, you lack reason and empathy (which are not mutually exclusive).
So, in future conversations, when someone punctuates a debate with "You racist!!" Assume that the previous 20 minutes were spent trying to convince you of something that you don't have the ability to understand. At least not in your current state of mind.
If you happen to be one of those people who takes offense to the accusation of racism, and you are willing to accept that you may be wrong---fundamentally and deeply wrong---and you would like to change your way of thinking, then start by watching a film or two on the history of race relations in this country. Then move on to a book or two or three. If that doesn't work, try meeting some minorities (outside of your own group, if you happen to be a minority) in this country, and not some recent arrivals, who haven't had the opportunity to let racism fuck with their psyches. Learn from their experiences.
Then spend some time reassessing the neoliberal, bitter bullshit that was passed down to you by your parents and grandparents, who never truly got over the civil rights era and who refuse to accept that their actions contribute(d) to inequalities in this country. Yes, i'm talking about the "don't say racist things, honey, but aren't those black people lazy" attitude on which you were raised (and that was concurrently reinforced by the media).
If you do all of these things in an earnest fashion, i promise you that you will never be accused of racism again.
More...
So, in future conversations, when someone punctuates a debate with "You racist!!" Assume that the previous 20 minutes were spent trying to convince you of something that you don't have the ability to understand. At least not in your current state of mind.
If you happen to be one of those people who takes offense to the accusation of racism, and you are willing to accept that you may be wrong---fundamentally and deeply wrong---and you would like to change your way of thinking, then start by watching a film or two on the history of race relations in this country. Then move on to a book or two or three. If that doesn't work, try meeting some minorities (outside of your own group, if you happen to be a minority) in this country, and not some recent arrivals, who haven't had the opportunity to let racism fuck with their psyches. Learn from their experiences.
Then spend some time reassessing the neoliberal, bitter bullshit that was passed down to you by your parents and grandparents, who never truly got over the civil rights era and who refuse to accept that their actions contribute(d) to inequalities in this country. Yes, i'm talking about the "don't say racist things, honey, but aren't those black people lazy" attitude on which you were raised (and that was concurrently reinforced by the media).
If you do all of these things in an earnest fashion, i promise you that you will never be accused of racism again.
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