Friday, January 2, 2009
City Man Shot By Police Was German Studies Major At UW
Posted by Jonah Spangenthal-Lee on Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 10:48 AM
Originally posted 1/1 at 9:26 pm
The 22-year-old man who was shot and killed by police this morning while wearing a Nazi uniform was, according to his friends, a World War II buff and German Culture major at the University of Washington.
According to one of UW senior Miles Murphy's friends, Murphy collected World War II memorabilia and participated in recreations of battles. "I think the Nazi thing is being blown out of proportion," the friend says. "They reenact battles and stuff. [He wasn't] modeling himself after Hitler."
Another of the Murphy's friends—who attended a memorial service for Murphy earlier this evening— says she believes the police did not give Murphy adequate time to drop his gun—apparently filled with blanks—before he was shot. "He was in no way affiliated with Nazis," she says. "He was the type of guy who...had goofy hobbies. He was a history buff and his interest was shown in the way he dressed."
Indeed, Murphy was featured in a UW Daily fashion article last summer, where he was described as looking like "a figure straight out of a photo taken from World War II."
Murphy's Myspace page contains a number of photos of him in German and Russian military uniforms and lists his greatest fears as large dogs, "drug lords" and the police.
Photo via Murphy's Myspace page.
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1
I can't decide if stupid police are more psychotic or if psychotic people are more stupid.
I'd chalk this one up as, "we need to figure things out on both sides before we don costumes and start shooting."
I'd chalk this one up as, "we need to figure things out on both sides before we don costumes and start shooting."
2
Police out here shot at three guys who were shooting their guns into the air for new years. They weren't ever pointing their guns at the officers, they just didn't drop them fast enough.
3
@CHZA The speed at which the bullet leaves the gun is equal to the speed at which it hits the ground. Thus, shooting guns into the air is like firing down into a crowd. Really, really dangerous. And deadly. How long should the police give people who are shooting into a crowd?
5
@3 well, shooting into a crowd has a significantly different probability of hitting someone than shooting into the air.... and in most cases has a significantly different motivation. these are two factors i'd hope you agree should be considered.
because, after all, shooting a gun accidentally into the air is similarly just exactly like intentionally firing directly into a crowd, according to your logic. i'd hate to see what penalty you'd prescribe for accidentally discharging a weapon.
because, after all, shooting a gun accidentally into the air is similarly just exactly like intentionally firing directly into a crowd, according to your logic. i'd hate to see what penalty you'd prescribe for accidentally discharging a weapon.
6
so, back to the nazi guy. a bunch of people said, "well done police!" when they first read this story because certainly a nazi was crazy and deserved to die -- thus clearly the police were telling the truth about him aiming at them.
but now we know he may have not been a nazi. in fact, it sounds like he was college student playing war in the yard, with toy bullets.
maybe he wasn't aiming at the police. maybe he was. i don't think this is as clearcut as first thought by some.
but now we know he may have not been a nazi. in fact, it sounds like he was college student playing war in the yard, with toy bullets.
maybe he wasn't aiming at the police. maybe he was. i don't think this is as clearcut as first thought by some.
10
a kid -- playing with his friends on new years day. shit.
i've worn old military jackets before. and i've certainly played with (fake) guns.
maybe he did do something stupid, and i'll feel bad for the officers for having to take a life. but just the fact that they call him a nazi means the were jumping to conclusions.
one of those conclusions lead to a death.
i've worn old military jackets before. and i've certainly played with (fake) guns.
maybe he did do something stupid, and i'll feel bad for the officers for having to take a life. but just the fact that they call him a nazi means the were jumping to conclusions.
one of those conclusions lead to a death.
11
@3/5 the speed of the bullet means nothing when shooting straight up. It will stop traveling up and return to the ground accelerating to its terminal velocity at close to 32'/s/s. While painful, a bullet falling due to gravity does not strike with lethal force.
The nerd/hipster with a gun and Nazi uniform was educated, and yet a fool for not realizing the combination is dangerous. That is NOT to say he deserved it... but c'mon, what's a cop to think in that situation?
The nerd/hipster with a gun and Nazi uniform was educated, and yet a fool for not realizing the combination is dangerous. That is NOT to say he deserved it... but c'mon, what's a cop to think in that situation?
12
what's a cop to do?
how about try not to shoot first when they see a youth playing with guns as toys.
since we weren't there it is difficult to say. but anyone -- ANYONE -- needs to be given an opportunity to drop the weapon.
since this kid was not crazy, i'm wondering if he was given that opportunity.
what's a cop to do? give that opportunity.
how about try not to shoot first when they see a youth playing with guns as toys.
since we weren't there it is difficult to say. but anyone -- ANYONE -- needs to be given an opportunity to drop the weapon.
since this kid was not crazy, i'm wondering if he was given that opportunity.
what's a cop to do? give that opportunity.
13
@3: Has there been an Ask Mr. Science column about that? Because it seems kind of hard to believe; there's an explosion in the beginning to send the bullet up, but the trip back down would only have gravity going for it....
14
sadly, his myspace page answer to the question, "How long do you think you'll live?" was
"Less than a year, honestly"
"Less than a year, honestly"
15
Give that opportunity? Have you ever seen someone coming towards you with a gun that you can only assume is loaded? How about someone with a gun who also happens to be dressed in a German military costume? I wonder if you would be able to calmly think..."gee this is probably just some kid with a gun he's using as a prop loaded with blanks. i think I'll give him a chance to show me". Or would you protect your own life?
Let's just say if you're in a wierd costume and carrying a gun, you should drop it before the cops even ask.
Let's just say if you're in a wierd costume and carrying a gun, you should drop it before the cops even ask.
16
@12
how do you know the cops shot first without telling the guy to put down his weapon? were you there?
and given the opportunity to drop his gun? uh, you see cops and you're holding a gun - drop it asap. this "kid" as you call him was in college. i'd hope that anyone making it that far in life, especially one who feared the cops, would have freed their hands of all weapons at the first site of a cop or cop car.
the guy didn't deserve to die but he should have used some common sense.
how do you know the cops shot first without telling the guy to put down his weapon? were you there?
and given the opportunity to drop his gun? uh, you see cops and you're holding a gun - drop it asap. this "kid" as you call him was in college. i'd hope that anyone making it that far in life, especially one who feared the cops, would have freed their hands of all weapons at the first site of a cop or cop car.
the guy didn't deserve to die but he should have used some common sense.
17
Except for when it does.
While painful, a bullet falling due to gravity does not strike with lethal force.
Except for when it does.
18
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon%27s…)
Shooting bullets in the air is extremely dangerous and does kill people.
Shooting bullets in the air is extremely dangerous and does kill people.
21
Since this is 2009 and not 1942, the first thing I'd think if I saw a guy in a Nazi uniform (at 2AM! In Seattle! On New Year's fucking eve!) is that he was wasted and maybe had a weird sense of humor. I know cops are paranoid, and probably need to be, but a Nazi uniform is about as threatening as a Winnie the Pooh costume.
Of course, pointing a gun and bayonet at a cop is pretty stupid (if that's what actually happened). When dealing with the police, it should always be remembered that they are 1) armed, 2) on edge, and 3) not required to have high intelligence to get hired. I'm not saying all cops are stupid, but I am saying that for your personal health and safety, they should be given a wide berth. Do not joke with the police. They might not get it and kill you.
Of course, pointing a gun and bayonet at a cop is pretty stupid (if that's what actually happened). When dealing with the police, it should always be remembered that they are 1) armed, 2) on edge, and 3) not required to have high intelligence to get hired. I'm not saying all cops are stupid, but I am saying that for your personal health and safety, they should be given a wide berth. Do not joke with the police. They might not get it and kill you.
22
Ehhhh I dunno. After looking at all of his pictures I'm kinda glad he's dead.
Yeah, I said it.
I also enjoy that he appears to be a minority and would have himself been gassed by the Nazis.
Yeah, I said it.
I also enjoy that he appears to be a minority and would have himself been gassed by the Nazis.
23
King 5 News just bookended the story about this Nazi costume guy with an update about Naveed Afzal Haq, the Jewish Community Center shooter who killed 6.
Stay classy, King 5.
Stay classy, King 5.
24
By the time the Police have to show up at ANY THING the "Thing" has gotten WAY WAY WAY out of hand. Here we have an example of a young man not thinking about anything other than pulling stupid stunts (to impress the ladies no doubt) for SO long that others felt compelled to call the police.
Being shot to death for acting like an ass with a gun is WAY WAY WAY over reacting, but the police don't know if the gun is real or not. The Young man should have dropped down flat on the ground when the police showed up (smart) but he did not (dumb) and now his weak mental genes will not be added to the gene pool.
Being shot to death for acting like an ass with a gun is WAY WAY WAY over reacting, but the police don't know if the gun is real or not. The Young man should have dropped down flat on the ground when the police showed up (smart) but he did not (dumb) and now his weak mental genes will not be added to the gene pool.
26
I have no problem with him being dead. Any fuck who celebrates the Nazi's like he did, hiding behind this "history buff" bullshit, deserves to die.
27
Man, nothing like kicking the year off with some knee-jerk social darwinism from the bottom feeders of the Stranger comment section. Shame on all of you for condemning the dead based on such limited information. Miles was a very sweet and caring guy and this is a horrifying accident, no one "deserves" to get shot to death on the street at 2 in the morning for shooting blanks on New Years Eve, less dangerous than fireworks. That the police officers are on administrative leave should give us some idea of the official interpretation of this terrible tragedy. Cops have a very scary job but most of the meatheads in the employ of the SPD don't have the brain cells to not shoot to kill whenever they idiotically tag something a threat. Fuck them and fuck you all. Happy new year.
28
27, funny how you are completely ignoring the fact that your friend was a Nazi sympathizer...or at least bizarrely fascinated with them.
You should be ashamed at yourself for being associated with him, not trying to defend him. Well maybe that is helping you through this.
You should be ashamed at yourself for being associated with him, not trying to defend him. Well maybe that is helping you through this.
29
Hey jerk, lots of folks died at the hands of the Nazis. If you think I can't celebrate the death of someone who was pointing a gun at the cops, intimidating his Jewish neighbors with his dress and demeanor, then how do you defend his actions, celebrating the regime that killed so many peoples grandparents & relatives?
30
To his friends:
This guy wasn't just some history buff. There was probably a real sense of fear and intimidation struck into the people who saw him.
While this is not illegal, it is definitely indefensible.
This guy wasn't just some history buff. There was probably a real sense of fear and intimidation struck into the people who saw him.
While this is not illegal, it is definitely indefensible.
31
I am one of Miles' close friends. I typically appreciate the crass commentary on the Slog (as I also happen to be an avid Slog reader), but I am not at all appreciative of any sort of slander or snap-judgments about Miles. He was a wonderful, selfless and eccentric person who was frequently misunderstood by those who did not know him well. While I do not necessarily condone Miles' actions last night (whether they were blank rounds or not), I believe that this conflict could possibly have been resolved in a more sensible manner. I find it to be rather disturbing that the last people who made a split-second evaluation of Miles were the ones to end his life. He was not insane. He was not a Nazi. He just made some incredibly monumental mistakes last night that ultimately cost him his life. Of course, I can also empathize with the policemen; they were confronted by a man decked out in German military duds waving a rifle in their faces. Given Miles' unparalleled enthusiasm for WWII reenactments and the nature of last night's festivities, it is also difficult to imagine what sort of lens that Miles was viewing the situation through. I wouldn't wish to be in any of their positions. Nobody here is a murderer, and nobody was good and nobody was bad. It is simply a tragic series of misunderstandings that can now never reach any sort of comfortable resolution. There is nothing we can do now, except to make sure that people leave the poor man alone and stop misconstruing information. People singled him out enough when he was alive for his various idiosyncrasies. Despite these decidedly extenuating circumstances, I would ask that people withhold their misguided appraisals for Miles' sake. His historical fascination is not the problem. In fact, it is completely irrelevant to the events that transpired last night. Guns and presumably alcohol were the problem. I hesitate to speculate, as I myself don't have all the details. He was a dear friend and I can't begin to describe how awful it is for me to continually envision the brutal, violent end he met less than twenty-four hours ago. For once I just wish you would ditch the acerbic banter and trade it in for compassion and tact. For those of you who did not have the chance to spend any time with Miles, you missed out. I will remember Miles as a generous, kooky and inimitable spirit who helped to define a great deal of my life experiences as a young, dumb, twenty-something in Seattle. From getting gussied up and prowling for blonds at stupid UW parties, 4th of July accordion jams at my apartment and a lifetime's worth of wallowing in public parks, I will hold these memories of Miles dear to me until I meet my own end.
Here's to you, Miles. Happy new year.
-Andrew J.
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Here's to you, Miles. Happy new year.
-Andrew J.
32
@26,28,30...etc: just because someone has an interest in the Nazi party does not mean that they are a Nazi "sympathizer." By judging Miles and saying that you are glad he's dead based on such little information, you are more like Hitler than I'm sure Miles ever was. I can understand how people might not share in his fascination with Nazi Germany, but the Nazis are as much a part of history as anything else, and the phenomena of their existence is definitely an important topic of study. There is no evidence that he ever actually wanted/intended to hurt anyone.
33
#32 - you can actually study Nazism and WWII history WITHOUT dressing up like a Nazi -- amazing but true!
I don't think this guy deserved to die (though it sounds like he had a death wish) but anywone who dresses up in Nazi gear for fun disgusts me.
I don't think this guy deserved to die (though it sounds like he had a death wish) but anywone who dresses up in Nazi gear for fun disgusts me.
34
I second Andrew. Let us concentrate on the fact that someone loved by his friends, family, and many others has died. He was a friend of mine, and he would never act on the notion that this was a heinous act of hateful crime. Never would Miles have done this out of anything but celebration or joy. Respect him and his friends, he's a victim. And dead if anybody has the sense of comprehension.
36
To Miles' Friends:
You're complicit in his death for not sitting him down with him and having a talk about his obsession with Nazis.
You're complicit in his death for not sitting him down with him and having a talk about his obsession with Nazis.
39
Well said Andrew. My sympathies. This sounds like a trulu unfortunate tragedy. As for thepolice, whenver an officer is involved in shooting their weapon they are placed on administrative leave while the incident is reviewed and for theofficers emotional well-being. It is a difficult thing to have killed someone in the line of duty. As for bullets killing people when they fall back to earth after having been shot straight up in the air, yes they do. All the time. And no, police officers are neither dumber nor smarter than any of us. What they are not is philosphers. They are not trained to reflect on a situation in progress and determine which hegelian paradigm would best fit what's happening. What they are is trained to act and react, sometimes on instinct. Because if they don't they or their partner or an innocent by-stander may wind up dead. In short they are trained assert control very rapidly, and to do in a mostly black and white way. And they aren't perfect either and expected to get every situation exactly right. And neither are we in our chosen line of work.
40
@33: okay, well your apparent lack of compassion for this young man based on his eccentric form of dressing disgusts me! you may say that you don't think he deserved to die, but that sure isn't the same as saying that you are sorry about it. You don't give a shit that he's dead, you're only interested in making sure people know that you're morally superior.
also, I should've said this earlier, but thanks to Miles' friends for commenting. it's really good to hear from the people who actually knew him. Clearly he was well loved.
also, I should've said this earlier, but thanks to Miles' friends for commenting. it's really good to hear from the people who actually knew him. Clearly he was well loved.
41
This is disgusting. For people who claim so much compassion and tolerance, you certainly have no care for the death of a man who we now know was certainly no actual threat to anyone. Better yet, we're going to get to see him get slandered and portrayed as a neo-nazi with a real gun by the mainstream media, and we'll all be complacent to this. Now if someone says something bad about the center for sex positive culture, SLOG would declare a jihad, but the death of an innocent young man doesn't seem to be arousing any moral anger. Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful.
42
Hey #36. I am rarely impassioned enough to argue on the internet. But to anyone who thinks we didn't do enough, saw this coming, or are in some way responsible for what happened: fuck you. Miles' predilection for WWII was certainly strange, but never appeared to be unhealthy. To even suggest that we had some idea that something like this would happen is completely inappropriate. Fuck you, asshole. Your father and mother are both guilty of complicity in your birth for not heading down to the clinic and aborting your self-satisfied, know-it-all, zygotic ass the second you were conceived. Perhaps you should exercise a bit of judiciousness before you post thoughtless bullshit on the internet like the PI. Unsurprisingly, even they rescinded their earlier headlines to an extent. Take a fucking hint, you insensitive prick. Blood has been shed. People are crushed. You don't know shit.
43
@12: "Try not to shoot first" is not a practical rule for police. They can't afford to shoot second. Guns are deadly weapons. If you point one at a cop -- loaded or not -- the cop should shoot you. Too bad a kid like that was allowed to have a gun, though.
44
42: fuck you for being friends with him. You have no moral ground to stand on and are here defending your own conscious for associating yourself with him.
45
Citrus - So you think it's fine to dress up like a Nazi in public? I'm curious to know why you think that is ok.
Disgustipaded - There is a remarkably easy way to not get portrayed as a neo-Nazi in the "mainstream media": don't go around wearing Nazi outfits.
Disgustipaded - There is a remarkably easy way to not get portrayed as a neo-Nazi in the "mainstream media": don't go around wearing Nazi outfits.
46
@44, What proof do you have that he was a neo-nazi? He was just a weird kid apparently. Besides, no one has moral ground; that's a term rooted in religious belief, our society is past that last I checked.
47
You're right, I've been lashing out and getting carried away.
We still don't have all the facts.
I WISH THERE WERE A "DELETE COMMENT" FEATURE for original authors
We still don't have all the facts.
I WISH THERE WERE A "DELETE COMMENT" FEATURE for original authors
48
@45
The problem fu, is that it's just clothing. What are we supposed to do, whitewash away an entire period of history because bad things happened in it? The guy was a war re-enactor who chose to portray the Nazis. Or more correctly, the German Army, of whom, most weren't Nazis. It's amazing that we always seem to forget that the guys on the other side of a war have families and lives and generally weren't "bad" people, simply victims of circumstance and time. As Americans we have no right to talk considering all the horrible things are currently did, is doing, and will continue to do.
I'm not saying the guy didn't do something stupid, nor that the cops are at fault. I'm saying the fact that slog posters are celebrating his death is sickening.
I hope you don't drive a ford, use an IBM product or anything by companies that willingly cooperated with the Nazis. Their goods carry a more foul legacy than some idiot war reenacter.
The problem fu, is that it's just clothing. What are we supposed to do, whitewash away an entire period of history because bad things happened in it? The guy was a war re-enactor who chose to portray the Nazis. Or more correctly, the German Army, of whom, most weren't Nazis. It's amazing that we always seem to forget that the guys on the other side of a war have families and lives and generally weren't "bad" people, simply victims of circumstance and time. As Americans we have no right to talk considering all the horrible things are currently did, is doing, and will continue to do.
I'm not saying the guy didn't do something stupid, nor that the cops are at fault. I'm saying the fact that slog posters are celebrating his death is sickening.
I hope you don't drive a ford, use an IBM product or anything by companies that willingly cooperated with the Nazis. Their goods carry a more foul legacy than some idiot war reenacter.
50
I feel bad having an argument over the physics of falling bullets given that someone is dead, but here goes.
The speed of the bullet on its return to earth is dependent on the angle at which it was fired. A bullet fired straight up will lose all of its kinetic energy to air resistance and gravity, then will fall to earth. Its maximum velocity, or terminal velocity, is limited by air resistance and is probably not lethal.
On the other hand, a bullet fired at a lower angle could retain a large amount of its horizontal velocity. It will go up and fall just the same as the bullet fired straight up, but it will also have a potentially large horizontal velocity which could make it deadly.
I wonder if there is a mythbusters episode on this.
Sorry for defiling the thread! RIP Miles, you seemed interesting.
The speed of the bullet on its return to earth is dependent on the angle at which it was fired. A bullet fired straight up will lose all of its kinetic energy to air resistance and gravity, then will fall to earth. Its maximum velocity, or terminal velocity, is limited by air resistance and is probably not lethal.
On the other hand, a bullet fired at a lower angle could retain a large amount of its horizontal velocity. It will go up and fall just the same as the bullet fired straight up, but it will also have a potentially large horizontal velocity which could make it deadly.
I wonder if there is a mythbusters episode on this.
Sorry for defiling the thread! RIP Miles, you seemed interesting.
51
44: Thanks for the assessment, Freud. You win. You, with your superior virtues, have triumphed over all of us (Miles' friends) with our underdeveloped abilities to make any sort of moral evaluations. I now see that we were all wrong in caring about Miles. I will certainly think twice the next time I'm about to make friends with a unique, talented and misunderstood individual.
I give up on this board. I knew I shouldn't have even bothered.
I give up on this board. I knew I shouldn't have even bothered.
55
@51: hey andrew, sorry there are so many assholes trolling message boards. I can't imagine how hard it must be, not just to lose someone you care about so violently, but then to see him portrayed as something he was not (a nazi) and have people proudly proclaim he deserved to die. I hope for his family's sake that the press eventually gives this story a fair shake.
56
OMG! Didn't The Stranger run a story several years ago about how the man who designed or worked on (or once touched or once looked at) the Space Needle (or something) was a Nazi?
They're everywhere! Run for the hills!
[not! to those people who are obsessing about Nazis here, just. drop. it.]
They're everywhere! Run for the hills!
[not! to those people who are obsessing about Nazis here, just. drop. it.]
58
to focus on the costume is really not the point
remember, "pointing gun, rifle at the cops, and did not drop it when commanded"
they would shoot anybody at that moment, young, old, costumed or not
his friends needed to have some conversation about hijinks that could get him killed
by the way, cops are ALWAYS put on leave when they fire their weapons - standard, not a sign of anything but good policy
I don't like cops, but, in this case, the kid invited getting shot because of the gun
Andrew, you are tying to defend what cannot be defended
Mourn your friend, and quit trying to recreate the truth - you buddy committed suicide by stupidity - sweetheart that he might have been
remember, "pointing gun, rifle at the cops, and did not drop it when commanded"
they would shoot anybody at that moment, young, old, costumed or not
his friends needed to have some conversation about hijinks that could get him killed
by the way, cops are ALWAYS put on leave when they fire their weapons - standard, not a sign of anything but good policy
I don't like cops, but, in this case, the kid invited getting shot because of the gun
Andrew, you are tying to defend what cannot be defended
Mourn your friend, and quit trying to recreate the truth - you buddy committed suicide by stupidity - sweetheart that he might have been
59
neighbors calling 911 about shots - 28 homocides in the past year in this fair city - weird situation with a rifle, demented kind of uniform, and you think the cops should have been making jokes?
by the way, any rifle is far more deadly than hand gun in general, deemed to very dangerous indeed
clue bus coming at noon - get on it
and just what was he stoned on?
by the way, any rifle is far more deadly than hand gun in general, deemed to very dangerous indeed
clue bus coming at noon - get on it
and just what was he stoned on?
60
1) cops lie.
2) cops encourage use of embarrassing personal info about their victims to discredit or counter their lies, making their victim's advocates appear sentimental and willing to distort facts.
the questions to focus on should be:
-how did the police identify themselves?
-how did the police give notice that the victim should drop his weapon?
-was the victim given reasonable time to drop the weapon?
-did the victim in fact point the weapon at the police at all?
implicit within these questions:
-were there any witnesses other than police?
and fair is fair (if we're going to look into the credibility of the victim):
-what are the disciplinary records of the police involved (complaints received, not just sustained)?
the fact that police have to make split second decisions is not enough to justify their preemptively murdering people, especially in a country where the 2nd amendment still applies. they have to have evidence from the moment, not just emotion or post-hoc character assassination, to justify taking a life.
2) cops encourage use of embarrassing personal info about their victims to discredit or counter their lies, making their victim's advocates appear sentimental and willing to distort facts.
the questions to focus on should be:
-how did the police identify themselves?
-how did the police give notice that the victim should drop his weapon?
-was the victim given reasonable time to drop the weapon?
-did the victim in fact point the weapon at the police at all?
implicit within these questions:
-were there any witnesses other than police?
and fair is fair (if we're going to look into the credibility of the victim):
-what are the disciplinary records of the police involved (complaints received, not just sustained)?
the fact that police have to make split second decisions is not enough to justify their preemptively murdering people, especially in a country where the 2nd amendment still applies. they have to have evidence from the moment, not just emotion or post-hoc character assassination, to justify taking a life.
62
#60 That is why police officers are put on administrative leave after a shooting. So that they can find if anything was done wrong.
The fact is the kid was shooting blanks out of a real gun at 2 AM in the morning. Yes it is a tragedy, but considering the state of mind a police officer is in when he shows up at a shots fired call, they weren't going to take any chances.
The facts will come out. If the officers called for him to drop to the ground and he instead pointed his rifle at them, then they did what you would expect any police officer to do.
The fact is the kid was shooting blanks out of a real gun at 2 AM in the morning. Yes it is a tragedy, but considering the state of mind a police officer is in when he shows up at a shots fired call, they weren't going to take any chances.
The facts will come out. If the officers called for him to drop to the ground and he instead pointed his rifle at them, then they did what you would expect any police officer to do.
63
Say a rosary for the police. If it weren't for the police, we'd all be dead in our beds with our throats cut.
65
@50 there has been a mythbusters on this, and they found that if the bullet is fired straight up, when it falls back down it won't fall with enough force to kill someone (though it would probably hurt). the bullet actually ends up horizontal (ie not pointed straight down) and didn't penetrate the dirt they were firing into.
but, as someone else pointed out, if you put any angle at all on the bullet, it will be lethal if it happens to hit someone.
i don't remember in which season that episode appeared, but it's been within the past couple of years, i think.
but, as someone else pointed out, if you put any angle at all on the bullet, it will be lethal if it happens to hit someone.
i don't remember in which season that episode appeared, but it's been within the past couple of years, i think.
66
Thanks, Andrew. After reading through his Myspace page, I have to say that he was someone I would probably have really enjoyed knowing. I can also imagine that in the same set of circumstances, I most likely would have tried to explain to the police that it wasn't loaded and then waved it in the wrong direction in the meantime. I'm both somewhat clumsy and occasionally obtuse - that's why I don't own a gun.
@60 - Yes, cops do lie, and they also spread misinformation. However, they also get to make the determination of what exactly is enough notice they need to give before shooting someone who is armed. That's their job, and that won't change. It's the same reason why border guards don't actually have to have a reason other than "they seemed odd" to search you. These are jobs that inherently require flexibility in decision-making. You don't have to actually point and aim the gun at police before they can shoot you - all you have to do is make a motion that _might_ be moving it in their direction. (You don't even actually have to have a gun.) That's most likely what happened here. They don't have to have any evidence to justify whether he was likely to have shot them - that's not their job.
And for those going on about the nazi uniform... do you really think your average police officer is going to recognize that uniform as being nazi? I think some-sort-of-uniform is really as far as they're going to ID it given the immediate situation. I think they probably found the collection of stuff afterwards and presumed a connection.
I feel sorry for the guy, and for all his friends and family. I'm sure they recognize as well as anyone that it was a series of mistakes that happened and if any one of the things had been changed, he might be alive today saying "in retrospect, that was really kind of stupid." Everyone makes mistakes, most of them don't kill us.
RIP, Miles.
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@60 - Yes, cops do lie, and they also spread misinformation. However, they also get to make the determination of what exactly is enough notice they need to give before shooting someone who is armed. That's their job, and that won't change. It's the same reason why border guards don't actually have to have a reason other than "they seemed odd" to search you. These are jobs that inherently require flexibility in decision-making. You don't have to actually point and aim the gun at police before they can shoot you - all you have to do is make a motion that _might_ be moving it in their direction. (You don't even actually have to have a gun.) That's most likely what happened here. They don't have to have any evidence to justify whether he was likely to have shot them - that's not their job.
And for those going on about the nazi uniform... do you really think your average police officer is going to recognize that uniform as being nazi? I think some-sort-of-uniform is really as far as they're going to ID it given the immediate situation. I think they probably found the collection of stuff afterwards and presumed a connection.
I feel sorry for the guy, and for all his friends and family. I'm sure they recognize as well as anyone that it was a series of mistakes that happened and if any one of the things had been changed, he might be alive today saying "in retrospect, that was really kind of stupid." Everyone makes mistakes, most of them don't kill us.
RIP, Miles.
69
Yes, let's not forgot the Nazi's who were just victims of circumstance.
I was trying to come up with an analogy for something really really bad that you should'nt glorify. But I couldn't. Hitler and the Nazi's take the cake for as bad as it gets. This obsession was no joke
It's amazing that we always seem to forget that the guys on the other side of a war have families and lives and generally weren't "bad" people, simply victims of circumstance and time.
Yes, let's not forgot the Nazi's who were just victims of circumstance.
I was trying to come up with an analogy for something really really bad that you should'nt glorify. But I couldn't. Hitler and the Nazi's take the cake for as bad as it gets. This obsession was no joke
70
My sympathies to those of you who knew this poor fellow. Obviously, his judgment in dealing with the piggies wasn't great, but just as obviously, nobody needed to die.
That said, a few minor points I'd like to sound off on:
- with all the talk about Nazis, does anyone even know if it was a "Nazi" uniform? There are plenty of German military uniforms that have nothing to do with the Nazi party. Apparently he dressed in Russian military uniforms from time to time, too. Horrors! Maybe he was a godless Commie!
- Let's assume it was a "Nazi" uniform, and let's go further and assume that he had a more-than-casual interest in the Nazi party. Here's a newsflash: socially awkward, generally bright young men in their late teens/early twenties sometimes develop an infatuation with Nazis. It happens more frequently than you'd think, and is not necessarily indicative of any racism, anti-semitism, or conscious admiration of Nazi beliefs. What attracts and interests these kids are the uniforms, the mystique, the "forbidden" nature of it. Anyone ever see the South Park episode where Cartman sees old footage of Hitler and develops a man-crush on him? I can totally relate. When you have a hard time getting laid (the root of most extremism, in my opinion, but I digress), it's comforting to admire power and confidence, even if that admiration just takes the form of wearing cool uniforms (and let's be honest - hate the Nazis all you want, they did have cool uniforms). It's also a little rebellious to appropriate such a widely-hated symbol. Walk around any high school in this country and page through the notebooks (do kids still use notebooks?) and you'll see tons of swastikas scribbled in the margins along with other doodles. Does this mean our schools are crawling with neo-Nazis? Of course not. It's a taboo symbol, similar to kids who "worship Satan". A form of rebellion that, 99.9% of the time, means no more than any other youthful fad. You grow out of it. No big deal.
- as for those who think he should have died just because of his "unhealthy" interest in Nazism, please note that he was a German Studies major. Ya think maybe people who devote four years to studying Germany might be interested in studying Nazism? It was a pretty significant episode in the history of that country. Maybe we should shoot any historian who's delved into that period and written about it extensively. After all, it's "unhealthy".
- ah, well, I'm rambling again. I'm sure I've ruffled some feathers. C'est la vie.
More...
That said, a few minor points I'd like to sound off on:
- with all the talk about Nazis, does anyone even know if it was a "Nazi" uniform? There are plenty of German military uniforms that have nothing to do with the Nazi party. Apparently he dressed in Russian military uniforms from time to time, too. Horrors! Maybe he was a godless Commie!
- Let's assume it was a "Nazi" uniform, and let's go further and assume that he had a more-than-casual interest in the Nazi party. Here's a newsflash: socially awkward, generally bright young men in their late teens/early twenties sometimes develop an infatuation with Nazis. It happens more frequently than you'd think, and is not necessarily indicative of any racism, anti-semitism, or conscious admiration of Nazi beliefs. What attracts and interests these kids are the uniforms, the mystique, the "forbidden" nature of it. Anyone ever see the South Park episode where Cartman sees old footage of Hitler and develops a man-crush on him? I can totally relate. When you have a hard time getting laid (the root of most extremism, in my opinion, but I digress), it's comforting to admire power and confidence, even if that admiration just takes the form of wearing cool uniforms (and let's be honest - hate the Nazis all you want, they did have cool uniforms). It's also a little rebellious to appropriate such a widely-hated symbol. Walk around any high school in this country and page through the notebooks (do kids still use notebooks?) and you'll see tons of swastikas scribbled in the margins along with other doodles. Does this mean our schools are crawling with neo-Nazis? Of course not. It's a taboo symbol, similar to kids who "worship Satan". A form of rebellion that, 99.9% of the time, means no more than any other youthful fad. You grow out of it. No big deal.
- as for those who think he should have died just because of his "unhealthy" interest in Nazism, please note that he was a German Studies major. Ya think maybe people who devote four years to studying Germany might be interested in studying Nazism? It was a pretty significant episode in the history of that country. Maybe we should shoot any historian who's delved into that period and written about it extensively. After all, it's "unhealthy".
- ah, well, I'm rambling again. I'm sure I've ruffled some feathers. C'est la vie.
72
I find it ironic that SPD shot a dude who was dressed as a fascist. Worried about competition, officers?
74
ALL YOU LIBS MAKE ME SICK YOU THINK WE SHOULD JUST ARM THE COPS WITH DAISIES AND HAVE THEM AVAILABLE TO WIPE YOUR LIB ASSES AND BLOW YOUR LIB NOSES FOR YOU AND HOLD A CRIMINALS HAND WHEN THEY NEED BLOWN AWAY.
NOW THAT YOUR PRESIDENT NOBAMA HAS SHOWN HIS TRUE FACE LAUGHING AT YOUR GAY ASSES I BET YOU WILL SING A DIFFERENT SONG OH NO YOU WON'T BE CAUSE YOU ARE LIBTARDS AND LIBTARDS NEVER NOW ANYTHING.
NOW THAT YOUR PRESIDENT NOBAMA HAS SHOWN HIS TRUE FACE LAUGHING AT YOUR GAY ASSES I BET YOU WILL SING A DIFFERENT SONG OH NO YOU WON'T BE CAUSE YOU ARE LIBTARDS AND LIBTARDS NEVER NOW ANYTHING.
75
Oh my god, I can't believe you sympathizers. This guy was a time bomb waiting for the right mosque, synagogue, or church. Who the fuck "re-enacts" Nazi shit BY HIMSELF on new years eve at 2AM by firing his rifle in the alley enough for the neighbors to get scared enough to call 911?! What kind of "battle" does a "history buff" re-enact by himself or with one or two friends at 2AM? Are you going to tell me he wasn't actually CELEBRATING at 2AM on New Years? Celebrating by firing your rifle around your neighborhood while dressed in a Nazi uniform IS A MOTHERFUCKING SIGN.
Dear god. How many times do you want to see "kooky", "eccentric" people snap and slaughter whole groups of innocents before you realize that certain actions are INDICATIONS of future behaviour?
Dear god. How many times do you want to see "kooky", "eccentric" people snap and slaughter whole groups of innocents before you realize that certain actions are INDICATIONS of future behaviour?
76
@60 good points.
police need to give someone == ANYONE == enough time to drop their weapon. of course they didn't intentionally seeking him out to kill him. of course their job is a dangerous one. but that risk is unavoidable. people still deserve a chance to drop the gun.
everyone here at first thought the police were right because the guy was a nazi -- well, he wasn't. he wasn't even in nazi attire. the police lied -- or at best -- made a mistake about that.
so, what we know is that the police make mistakes. they make mistakes. and when they can make mistakes that cost a young man his life, well, there is something wrong.
you wouldn't want grumpy neighbors calling the police on your, your kids, or your friends who were celebrating new year's eve in a harmless way -- to have the police shoot a loved one of yours. that is not the sort of policing we need.
i understand that the police have to shoot first, and shoot to kill. even if they were justified here, it was a bad end. the question i have is, were they justified?
this story is significant because well-meaning police make mistakes, and they need to be held accountable for them. it's those of us who are different, who aren't the "same" who usually end up the victim. this guy was eccentric, and it's silly to think that may have cost him his life. because it is legal to play with guns in america. and it's legal to dress in old military uniforms. and it's certainly legal to be in your yard, drinking, and celebrating new year's eve.
this boils down to a noise violation? resulting in death?
police need to give someone == ANYONE == enough time to drop their weapon. of course they didn't intentionally seeking him out to kill him. of course their job is a dangerous one. but that risk is unavoidable. people still deserve a chance to drop the gun.
everyone here at first thought the police were right because the guy was a nazi -- well, he wasn't. he wasn't even in nazi attire. the police lied -- or at best -- made a mistake about that.
so, what we know is that the police make mistakes. they make mistakes. and when they can make mistakes that cost a young man his life, well, there is something wrong.
you wouldn't want grumpy neighbors calling the police on your, your kids, or your friends who were celebrating new year's eve in a harmless way -- to have the police shoot a loved one of yours. that is not the sort of policing we need.
i understand that the police have to shoot first, and shoot to kill. even if they were justified here, it was a bad end. the question i have is, were they justified?
this story is significant because well-meaning police make mistakes, and they need to be held accountable for them. it's those of us who are different, who aren't the "same" who usually end up the victim. this guy was eccentric, and it's silly to think that may have cost him his life. because it is legal to play with guns in america. and it's legal to dress in old military uniforms. and it's certainly legal to be in your yard, drinking, and celebrating new year's eve.
this boils down to a noise violation? resulting in death?
77
Lib Defeater,
Thanks so much for raising the level of the discourse here. By the by, the "caps lock" key is usually located just to the left of the "A" key. Give it a try!
Thanks so much for raising the level of the discourse here. By the by, the "caps lock" key is usually located just to the left of the "A" key. Give it a try!
78
Anon @ 70:
1) There's a huge difference between scribbling swastikas in your notebook and dressing up as the fuckers on new year's eve, generally a time when people are celebrating.
2) Last I checked, I can major in shit and study really hard without dressing up as the shit I'm studying on New Year's Eve and firing my rifle off in the street.
1) There's a huge difference between scribbling swastikas in your notebook and dressing up as the fuckers on new year's eve, generally a time when people are celebrating.
2) Last I checked, I can major in shit and study really hard without dressing up as the shit I'm studying on New Year's Eve and firing my rifle off in the street.
79
Infrequent @ 76: It is MOST DEFINITELY NOT legal to fire your rifle off in the city. By all accounts that's what instigated the 911 call(s) that got the police out there in the first place. Are you really going to approach a drunk dude dressed in military garb who is firing his rifle off in the street on new years eve and ask him if he's firing blanks or not?
80
@79. No. But I am going to give him one chance to drop the weapon. One chance.
(and please, is shooting blanks a crime in the city?)
What I'm not going to do is:
Say he was a Nazi to discredit him. He was not a Nazi.
Not give the young man a chance to drop the weapon.
Say he pointed the rifle and came at them.
We all know that in cases like this, the police are usually justified. But not always. When everyone thought he was a Nazi, pretty much everyone was okay with it. Because the type of person who would be a Nazi seems like the type of person who would aim a loaded weapon at a police officer.
>>>HOWEVER<<<
He was not a Nazi. Suddenly, the story has a new angle. Maybe the police weren't being entire honest... or maybe they were, but they made a mistake.
I'm not so sure I believe the police account yet. I need more information. Since this was a non-Nazi, and an educated guy, I'm thinking he wouldn't come at police if given a chance not to.
And since we was in his yard (or a friend's) with blanks having fun -- perhaps drunk -- I'd hope the police could somehow give this sort of person a chance in their state to respond before shooting.
(and please, is shooting blanks a crime in the city?)
What I'm not going to do is:
Say he was a Nazi to discredit him. He was not a Nazi.
Not give the young man a chance to drop the weapon.
Say he pointed the rifle and came at them.
We all know that in cases like this, the police are usually justified. But not always. When everyone thought he was a Nazi, pretty much everyone was okay with it. Because the type of person who would be a Nazi seems like the type of person who would aim a loaded weapon at a police officer.
>>>HOWEVER<<<
He was not a Nazi. Suddenly, the story has a new angle. Maybe the police weren't being entire honest... or maybe they were, but they made a mistake.
I'm not so sure I believe the police account yet. I need more information. Since this was a non-Nazi, and an educated guy, I'm thinking he wouldn't come at police if given a chance not to.
And since we was in his yard (or a friend's) with blanks having fun -- perhaps drunk -- I'd hope the police could somehow give this sort of person a chance in their state to respond before shooting.
81
@74
Hey stupid, you just discover the internet? Stop yelling.
Feel bad for the kid, but don't point guns at the police. The uniform issue is moot. The cops probably didn't figure out the nazi/german uniform angle until after the kid was already cold.
Hey stupid, you just discover the internet? Stop yelling.
Feel bad for the kid, but don't point guns at the police. The uniform issue is moot. The cops probably didn't figure out the nazi/german uniform angle until after the kid was already cold.
82
i know it's tough for some of you to imagine, but police officers are humans who get scared and make mistakes. they also make quick judgments and eventually are going to make a bad one -- even if they go to their grave thinking they made the right call.
maybe it's takes such a thing happening to you before you realize it can happen.
but for the super-pro-police defenders here, you probably like the rule of law. that rule of law allows you to play with guns if you like. if you are your friends were playing with your guns in a harmless way, and were suddenly confronted by the police, perhaps you could understand the other side of this story.
having a gun while hunting is essential. and so is having a gun for a war re-enactment (or costume). i would hope the police wouldn't be so eager to shoot at hunters, nor at youths celebrating new years.
give the kid a chance to drop the gun.
and if you did do that...
don't lie by saying he was a nazi so your actions seem justified.
that stinks. it makes it look like a cover-up. which gives me cause to doubt their version of events.
i think it was likely a terrible mistake -- but that in the heat of the moment, the officers may have made a poor judgment. i also think the guy likely made a poor judgment as well. only, he's the one who ended up dead. basically for a noise violation and being eccentric.
maybe it's takes such a thing happening to you before you realize it can happen.
but for the super-pro-police defenders here, you probably like the rule of law. that rule of law allows you to play with guns if you like. if you are your friends were playing with your guns in a harmless way, and were suddenly confronted by the police, perhaps you could understand the other side of this story.
having a gun while hunting is essential. and so is having a gun for a war re-enactment (or costume). i would hope the police wouldn't be so eager to shoot at hunters, nor at youths celebrating new years.
give the kid a chance to drop the gun.
and if you did do that...
don't lie by saying he was a nazi so your actions seem justified.
that stinks. it makes it look like a cover-up. which gives me cause to doubt their version of events.
i think it was likely a terrible mistake -- but that in the heat of the moment, the officers may have made a poor judgment. i also think the guy likely made a poor judgment as well. only, he's the one who ended up dead. basically for a noise violation and being eccentric.
83
#80 How the heck were the police officers supposed to know he was firing blanks? And how do you know that they didn't give him a chance to drop his gun?
The report states that they warned him several times to drop his weapon and then he pointed it at the officers. All the facts are going to be reviewed, but if true then the kid put the officers, who had no idea they were blanks, into the position of killing him.
The report states that they warned him several times to drop his weapon and then he pointed it at the officers. All the facts are going to be reviewed, but if true then the kid put the officers, who had no idea they were blanks, into the position of killing him.
84
#82
Most people don't play war games with blanks at 2 am in the morning, on New Years, in the middle of the city.
Most people don't play war games with blanks at 2 am in the morning, on New Years, in the middle of the city.
85
Title 12A - CRIMINAL CODE
Subtitle I Criminal Code
Chapter 12A.14 - Weapons Control
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SMC 12A.14.071 Discharge of a firearm.
A person is guilty of discharge of a firearm if he or she wilfully
discharges a firearm in a place where there is a reasonable likelihood
that humans, domestic animals or property will be jeopardized.
(Ord. 119010 Section 8, 1998: Ord. 117157 Section 3, 1994.)
If "blanks" are good enough in Hollywood to fool me, they're more than good enough to fool the neighbors of this young man. Most hunters I know don't even have blanks, and would be fairly aghast if approached by someone swinging a gun around -- no one but the guy swinging the gun knows if it's loaded, or loaded with blanks.
Subtitle I Criminal Code
Chapter 12A.14 - Weapons Control
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SMC 12A.14.071 Discharge of a firearm.
A person is guilty of discharge of a firearm if he or she wilfully
discharges a firearm in a place where there is a reasonable likelihood
that humans, domestic animals or property will be jeopardized.
(Ord. 119010 Section 8, 1998: Ord. 117157 Section 3, 1994.)
If "blanks" are good enough in Hollywood to fool me, they're more than good enough to fool the neighbors of this young man. Most hunters I know don't even have blanks, and would be fairly aghast if approached by someone swinging a gun around -- no one but the guy swinging the gun knows if it's loaded, or loaded with blanks.
86
"in the city" but also in his backyard. come on... his backyard.
(may have been his friend's backyard -- same diff).
blanks -- yes, they were blanks. how many times do i have to say this: blanks are not illegal. yes, they are scary -- but that shouldn't be your judge and jury. "acting" seems real. many people act. the practice plays. they wrestle with friends. these actions may look real, but is the the job of the police to respond and sort it out.
what i'm saying is that i think there is reason to doubt the police version of events. they lied or were wrong about him being a nazi. but you can see what their line of thinking was.
that same line of think led them to shoot a young man. they may have been wrong.
(may have been his friend's backyard -- same diff).
blanks -- yes, they were blanks. how many times do i have to say this: blanks are not illegal. yes, they are scary -- but that shouldn't be your judge and jury. "acting" seems real. many people act. the practice plays. they wrestle with friends. these actions may look real, but is the the job of the police to respond and sort it out.
what i'm saying is that i think there is reason to doubt the police version of events. they lied or were wrong about him being a nazi. but you can see what their line of thinking was.
that same line of think led them to shoot a young man. they may have been wrong.
87
oh! he was in the middle of the city!!! can you imagine it... right in the middle. doing weird things! on new years eve! who does something weird on new year's eve? no one! not in the middle of the city in their backyard, they don't!
88
blanks are good enough for hollywood?!?! i know!! actors should be shot by the police, too!!! don't apply common sense! don't give them enough time to react! just shoot them! say they had a weapon and were dressed as a nazi! who cares if they were just "acting" -- no one will believe them over you! what kind of freak likes playing war games anyone! no decent young guy ever likes playing war games. none i know, at least! none!!!
89
to the blood thirsty facists on this board:
Wishing someone would be shot for dressing in an Nazi or in German WWI outfit makes you as sadist as SS officers.
Be reasonable, logical and have compassion.
We should wait to hear all the details before spitting on someone's grave and condemning him to hell.
Keep in mind he was eccentric and only 22 years old.
Too much alcohol may have lead to an unfortunate decision.
To his friends I'm sorry for your loss.
Wishing someone would be shot for dressing in an Nazi or in German WWI outfit makes you as sadist as SS officers.
Be reasonable, logical and have compassion.
We should wait to hear all the details before spitting on someone's grave and condemning him to hell.
Keep in mind he was eccentric and only 22 years old.
Too much alcohol may have lead to an unfortunate decision.
To his friends I'm sorry for your loss.
90
I read in the PI that this person's family had not been notified as of yet?
Does anyone know if this is true?
If so, Why are the Strangers editor's publishing his name already
Does anyone know if this is true?
If so, Why are the Strangers editor's publishing his name already
91
Back in the old Seattle days it was common for drunks to shoot off guns at house parties /after shows.
Things weren't as safe. it was crazy and dangerous. But, this is a city.
The police did not show up with a SWAT team and blow anyone away back then.
Seattle has become a city of whiners, wimps and yuppies.
Things weren't as safe. it was crazy and dangerous. But, this is a city.
The police did not show up with a SWAT team and blow anyone away back then.
Seattle has become a city of whiners, wimps and yuppies.
92
Idiots. If you want to live in a place where you can fire off your guns willy nilly and not have the cops come, move the fuck out of Seattle. I'm sure you can still do that shit in Wyoming, Montana, or Alabama. Go. Quickly.
93
yes! celebrating new year's with friends and blanks = "firing off guns willy nilly"!!!
getting shot to death = "having the cops come come"!!!!
fun with phrasing!!!
what you could have just as easily said was:
Idiots. If you want to live in a place where you can celebrate new year's even with your friends on private property dressed as you see fit and not have the cops come and gun you down then lie about you in the press, move the fuck out of Seattle. I'm sure you can so that shit in New York, Berkely, or France. Go. Quickly.
getting shot to death = "having the cops come come"!!!!
fun with phrasing!!!
what you could have just as easily said was:
Idiots. If you want to live in a place where you can celebrate new year's even with your friends on private property dressed as you see fit and not have the cops come and gun you down then lie about you in the press, move the fuck out of Seattle. I'm sure you can so that shit in New York, Berkely, or France. Go. Quickly.
94
@60 The tv news interviewed a couple neighbors who heard the police yelling at the suspect over and over again to drop the gun and then they heard more shots fired.
To those that somehow think the cops should have known he was firing blanks - how? They arrive on scene, confront Miles, order the weapon dropped, allegedly he turns (perhaps to drop the gun, we don't know) and now the gun is pointed at the cops. The cops can only assume it is too shoot at them.
The uniform has nothing to do with the decision made. He could have been in his A&F clothes and still been shot.
Moral of the story: Drugs (alcohol is one) + Guns = Stupidity.
To those that somehow think the cops should have known he was firing blanks - how? They arrive on scene, confront Miles, order the weapon dropped, allegedly he turns (perhaps to drop the gun, we don't know) and now the gun is pointed at the cops. The cops can only assume it is too shoot at them.
The uniform has nothing to do with the decision made. He could have been in his A&F clothes and still been shot.
Moral of the story: Drugs (alcohol is one) + Guns = Stupidity.
95
I agree with you #94.
Poor drunken judgment.
The cops have no clue if he is dangerous and crazy and popping off his gun.
So, the situation is a clusterfuck.
But, wishing people to be shot to death because he dressed odd and not normal that's a different severe problem that needs to be addressed.
I do not want to live in a society where individuality is repressed either.
Seattle was untamed and the wild west for many years it's just recently become tame in the late 90's.
It's the New Year and we are already sending death wishes and spewing hate? wtf?
What made Seattle great was care, compassion and community.
yes, and it can be that way again.
Poor drunken judgment.
The cops have no clue if he is dangerous and crazy and popping off his gun.
So, the situation is a clusterfuck.
But, wishing people to be shot to death because he dressed odd and not normal that's a different severe problem that needs to be addressed.
I do not want to live in a society where individuality is repressed either.
Seattle was untamed and the wild west for many years it's just recently become tame in the late 90's.
It's the New Year and we are already sending death wishes and spewing hate? wtf?
What made Seattle great was care, compassion and community.
yes, and it can be that way again.
96
I saw this kid around the UW in his tight period-piece jackets. He was a little eccentric but in a good way. If he had been wearing his Cossack uniform or his Civil War uniform, you wouldn't be calling him a Russian or a Grey-shirt.
97
I’m normally very supportive of our North Precinct police officers and the job they do. However, this incident is one that seems possible to have dealt with the situation without the use of deadly force. Hindsight being 20/20 and all…
The flood of online comments cheering the police for ridding us of the neo-Nazi scum (based on the one-sided initial reporting in the media and the Slog) was clearly misguided…. more like mob action at its finest.
I’m guessing it will ultimately be revealed that this was a case of a college student who was drunk on New Year’s Eve in the U-District (shocking, I know) who made the stupid decision to shoot rifle blanks (as his Myspace profile indicates was one of his “favorite activities”, in line with his WWII re-enactor hobby) instead of firecrackers in the alley behind his house.
The SPD blog states that the responding officers were “confronted” by the suspect, but other reports in the Times and P-I describe witnesses saying the police went and knocked on Miles’ apartment door and he answered with the rifle in his hands (drunk kids being stupid again).
Some there say that the police officers didn’t wait long enough between their commands to drop the rifle and their shots that killed Miles.
That’s a debate with valid arguments on both sides (wait longer with the wrong suspect, and a cop gets shot… vs… this was just a drunk kid who could have been taken down with non-lethal force).
I can remember numerous times dining at Red Mill over the last couple of years when Miles was working there. He was always polite and friendly, and I have no doubt that his death will be a loss for so many. It will probably also haunt the consciences of the officers involved in the shooting as they gain the perspective on the situation that they didn’t have when they got the call.
A sad tragedy for all of us.
More...
The flood of online comments cheering the police for ridding us of the neo-Nazi scum (based on the one-sided initial reporting in the media and the Slog) was clearly misguided…. more like mob action at its finest.
I’m guessing it will ultimately be revealed that this was a case of a college student who was drunk on New Year’s Eve in the U-District (shocking, I know) who made the stupid decision to shoot rifle blanks (as his Myspace profile indicates was one of his “favorite activities”, in line with his WWII re-enactor hobby) instead of firecrackers in the alley behind his house.
The SPD blog states that the responding officers were “confronted” by the suspect, but other reports in the Times and P-I describe witnesses saying the police went and knocked on Miles’ apartment door and he answered with the rifle in his hands (drunk kids being stupid again).
Some there say that the police officers didn’t wait long enough between their commands to drop the rifle and their shots that killed Miles.
That’s a debate with valid arguments on both sides (wait longer with the wrong suspect, and a cop gets shot… vs… this was just a drunk kid who could have been taken down with non-lethal force).
I can remember numerous times dining at Red Mill over the last couple of years when Miles was working there. He was always polite and friendly, and I have no doubt that his death will be a loss for so many. It will probably also haunt the consciences of the officers involved in the shooting as they gain the perspective on the situation that they didn’t have when they got the call.
A sad tragedy for all of us.
98
@94: can you link that story? i haven't seen the one where neighbors are interviewed. i watched komo and king.
just to be clear: if this guy pointed the gun at police after being told to drop it, then yeah, i have no problem with the police action. it's lame, but i understand it.
i just want the whole story, and am surprised how many people just think this guy was obviously at fault. because he was weird, and because the police don't lie or make mistakes. those are two things that grab my attention.
those who are different shouldn't be treated differently when it comes to justice.
and the police sometimes like or make mistakes.
i just want these things to be considered, and am a little angered how little benefit of the doubt is according this young guy... a guy who seems not to different from me, or, dare i say... you.
just to be clear: if this guy pointed the gun at police after being told to drop it, then yeah, i have no problem with the police action. it's lame, but i understand it.
i just want the whole story, and am surprised how many people just think this guy was obviously at fault. because he was weird, and because the police don't lie or make mistakes. those are two things that grab my attention.
those who are different shouldn't be treated differently when it comes to justice.
and the police sometimes like or make mistakes.
i just want these things to be considered, and am a little angered how little benefit of the doubt is according this young guy... a guy who seems not to different from me, or, dare i say... you.
99
This young man's "one chance" to drop his weapon was hearing the police vehicles (with sirens?) and the orders through bullhorns before they approached. He did not.
About once a year some obsessive college student goes on a shooting rampage through a campus, most brutally and recently at Virginia Tech. The police response with the SWAT team was reasonable and appropriate to a report that shots are being fired by strangely dressed individuals near the campus.
About once a year some obsessive college student goes on a shooting rampage through a campus, most brutally and recently at Virginia Tech. The police response with the SWAT team was reasonable and appropriate to a report that shots are being fired by strangely dressed individuals near the campus.
100
@95, what about the care, compassion, and community for people like me, who had relatives suffer at the hands of the Nazis? Are you telling me that on New Years, when I'm woken up by a neighbor dressed in German war regalia shooting off his rifle and apparently celebrating the death of my relatives, I'm supposed to feel good about his freedom to do so? Maybe I should, who knows. Maybe black people should feel good about history buffs who re-enact civil war battles waving their confederate flags and firing of their guns on New Year's Eve.
I guess I'm not the "turn the other cheek" kind of liberal that feels a need to show compassion for those who didn't give the same thought in their actions.
I guess I'm not the "turn the other cheek" kind of liberal that feels a need to show compassion for those who didn't give the same thought in their actions.
101
To add to the caterwauling slog one point I haven't seen made here. Things happen real quickly when you A) have a gun pointed at you (particularly by someone obviously intoxicated), or B) have a drawn weapon pointed at someone else.
I've been in both of these situations, A at work and B at home. I was not employed in law enforcment in either situation, so I can't speak to the specific rules of engagement they operate under, but the constraints of common sense and a appreciation for how close one is to pushing or being pushed off this mortal coil dictates calm and steady decisions and movements. Absent the calm and steady approach, by either the shooter or the subject, and bad shit is going to happen, obviously.
Alcohol or recreational drugs likely played a role, as did perhaps police over reaction. The end result, a young man is dead as a outgrowth of his poor decisions. in and of itself making poor choices is not a capital crime, but add any amount, however small, of impulsiveness to the equation and it quickly becomes one.
Sad, but forseeable. For a better interpretation of the situation than anyone here has provided, listen to "Don't take your guns to town" by Johnny Cash.
I've been in both of these situations, A at work and B at home. I was not employed in law enforcment in either situation, so I can't speak to the specific rules of engagement they operate under, but the constraints of common sense and a appreciation for how close one is to pushing or being pushed off this mortal coil dictates calm and steady decisions and movements. Absent the calm and steady approach, by either the shooter or the subject, and bad shit is going to happen, obviously.
Alcohol or recreational drugs likely played a role, as did perhaps police over reaction. The end result, a young man is dead as a outgrowth of his poor decisions. in and of itself making poor choices is not a capital crime, but add any amount, however small, of impulsiveness to the equation and it quickly becomes one.
Sad, but forseeable. For a better interpretation of the situation than anyone here has provided, listen to "Don't take your guns to town" by Johnny Cash.
102
"common sense" @78
My reply to your reply:
1) Seems to me we've established that he wasn't actually dressed as a Nazi, which makes your point moot. Last I checked, it's legal to dress up in any kind of outfit you want. On New Year's Eve or any other night of the year. Didn't Prince William or Harry dress as a Nazi for a costume party a few years ago? I guess he was really a Nazi, and should probably be shot. Kind of off the point, I admit, since as I mentioned, this kid was NOT wearing a Nazi uniform.
2) Yes, you can study "shit" without dressing up in a period costume. Or you can choose to dress in a period costume. It's a free country.
My problem is not with the fact that the police shot someone who was pointing a gun at them, Nazi or not, uniform or not. My problem is with the seeming lies told by the police, the rush to judgment, and the assumption that a strange outfit on New Year's Eve (again, NOT a Nazi uniform) allows us to ascertain the character and beliefs of someone we've never met. That's all.
Here's another thought: let's say this was a young black male, dressed in "gang" colors - Crips or Bloods or something (which, from my admittedly limited knowledge of gang culture, means he had something red or blue on). Turns out kid was shooting blanks, celebrating New Year's, maybe a little drunk. Not at all a gang member. Are the police still heroes? Or is there widespread outrage and calls for immediate investigation? Just something to chew on. Discuss amongst yourselves. And everyone - have a great new year, and let's keep the discussion civil, yes?
My reply to your reply:
1) Seems to me we've established that he wasn't actually dressed as a Nazi, which makes your point moot. Last I checked, it's legal to dress up in any kind of outfit you want. On New Year's Eve or any other night of the year. Didn't Prince William or Harry dress as a Nazi for a costume party a few years ago? I guess he was really a Nazi, and should probably be shot. Kind of off the point, I admit, since as I mentioned, this kid was NOT wearing a Nazi uniform.
2) Yes, you can study "shit" without dressing up in a period costume. Or you can choose to dress in a period costume. It's a free country.
My problem is not with the fact that the police shot someone who was pointing a gun at them, Nazi or not, uniform or not. My problem is with the seeming lies told by the police, the rush to judgment, and the assumption that a strange outfit on New Year's Eve (again, NOT a Nazi uniform) allows us to ascertain the character and beliefs of someone we've never met. That's all.
Here's another thought: let's say this was a young black male, dressed in "gang" colors - Crips or Bloods or something (which, from my admittedly limited knowledge of gang culture, means he had something red or blue on). Turns out kid was shooting blanks, celebrating New Year's, maybe a little drunk. Not at all a gang member. Are the police still heroes? Or is there widespread outrage and calls for immediate investigation? Just something to chew on. Discuss amongst yourselves. And everyone - have a great new year, and let's keep the discussion civil, yes?
103
@100. you are lying. this kid was not a nazi, and he wasn't celebrating any nazi crime. i don't know if you really take neo-nazi's that personally -- but since he wasn't one at all, your post is complete irrelevant. even if it were, being a racist and hurting other's feelings isn't punishable by death. but he wasn't. so it's not like waving a confederate flag -- at all.
@101 if it's so foreseeable, why were you in that situation multiple times and yet lived to post about it? sure, drunk people act silly. but drunk people shouldn't be shot for it. maybe there is another alternative. the fact that you are alive today means that the police might have been able to address the situation without killing the young guy.
@97 good points.
@102 good points.
@101 if it's so foreseeable, why were you in that situation multiple times and yet lived to post about it? sure, drunk people act silly. but drunk people shouldn't be shot for it. maybe there is another alternative. the fact that you are alive today means that the police might have been able to address the situation without killing the young guy.
@97 good points.
@102 good points.
104
catsnbanjos @ 102
"Last I checked, it's legal to dress up in any kind of outfit you want."
Tell you what, why not dress up like a klansman and walk down MLK shooting blanks from a rile and put ypu "free country" theory to a test?
"Last I checked, it's legal to dress up in any kind of outfit you want."
Tell you what, why not dress up like a klansman and walk down MLK shooting blanks from a rile and put ypu "free country" theory to a test?
105
@103, you have a reading comprehension problem. I did not say he was a nazi, nor does his neo-nazi-ism/not-ism play into it. He was dressed up in German war regalia. He was firing his gun. He was doing it on New Year's Eve. A reasonable person would assume he is celebrating. A slightly less reasonable person who has cause to feel anger over the actions of the Nazis would assume he is celebrating the German military.
That does not mean he should get shot, but it also does not mean I have any cause to feel compassion for the guy if he does. That's all I'm saying -- I'm not inclined to show compassion for a man who didn't accord the same respect to me.
That does not mean he should get shot, but it also does not mean I have any cause to feel compassion for the guy if he does. That's all I'm saying -- I'm not inclined to show compassion for a man who didn't accord the same respect to me.
106
@105. i stand by what i wrote. your post was ridiculous, and you were likely lying.
no one assumed he was celebrating the way nazi's treated the jews -- and i submit that it is not a reasonable assumption. for you to bring up slavery and confederates is misleading and basically propaganda. the confederate flag is one of the most recognized symbols of the south. if this guy has a swazika flag, maybe your comparison would be valid. but he did not.
no one assumed he was celebrating the way nazi's treated the jews -- and i submit that it is not a reasonable assumption. for you to bring up slavery and confederates is misleading and basically propaganda. the confederate flag is one of the most recognized symbols of the south. if this guy has a swazika flag, maybe your comparison would be valid. but he did not.
107
It is illegal to DISCHARGE a firearm in just about every major city in the US, if not all of them. That includes firing blanks. For those who think blanks are harmless, google Jon-Erik Hexum (I suck at linking).
He may have been a nice kid, but from the way it sounds, his stupidity directly led to his death.
He may have been a nice kid, but from the way it sounds, his stupidity directly led to his death.
108
Giving someone a gun and telling them not to use it is like giving someone a hammer and telling them not to hammer anything that looks like a nail.
Nuff said.
Nuff said.
109
well, i'm late to the game and my comments aren't inflammatory so i'm sure they won't matter.
i don't know this kid, i have some guesses about him, but they are only guesses and from a tiny bit of information, so they aren't defensible. whether he was a good or bad person isn't relevant. whether cops are generally pseudo-fascists isn't too relevant either.
what i do know, is that any group of 5 guys, walking through my neighborhood in the middle of the night, shooting their guns would have the police called on them.
if you polled everyone in america, and asked them "what would you do if 5 armed men were walking through your neighborhood shooting guns?" what percentage would say, "oh nothing, it's a free country!"
whether they were dressed as war criminals, or gangsters, priests, doctors, flight attendants, cops, or even if they were dressed just like "you" and looked just like "you", five men (or even five women) shooting guns outside your home would lead you to at least call the police.
and though i have deeply-seeded dislike, even hatred, of cops, there is no doubt that responding to calls about "5 armed men" shooting their weapons in a residential neighborhood, is a tough damn job to do. whether they did right or wrong is something i also can't tell from what i know from the reports. but it sounds like, whether right or wrong, what they did was "correct", was human, was predictable from any reasonable perspective.
i don't know this kid, i have some guesses about him, but they are only guesses and from a tiny bit of information, so they aren't defensible. whether he was a good or bad person isn't relevant. whether cops are generally pseudo-fascists isn't too relevant either.
what i do know, is that any group of 5 guys, walking through my neighborhood in the middle of the night, shooting their guns would have the police called on them.
if you polled everyone in america, and asked them "what would you do if 5 armed men were walking through your neighborhood shooting guns?" what percentage would say, "oh nothing, it's a free country!"
whether they were dressed as war criminals, or gangsters, priests, doctors, flight attendants, cops, or even if they were dressed just like "you" and looked just like "you", five men (or even five women) shooting guns outside your home would lead you to at least call the police.
and though i have deeply-seeded dislike, even hatred, of cops, there is no doubt that responding to calls about "5 armed men" shooting their weapons in a residential neighborhood, is a tough damn job to do. whether they did right or wrong is something i also can't tell from what i know from the reports. but it sounds like, whether right or wrong, what they did was "correct", was human, was predictable from any reasonable perspective.
111
@107 read @85.
Unless Seattle guy was shooting blanks point blank into someone's temple or eye I don't think he was really jeopardizing anybody.
Unless Seattle guy was shooting blanks point blank into someone's temple or eye I don't think he was really jeopardizing anybody.
112
I am very sorry for the loss of this life. Tragic.
One comment: so the swastikas were removed from the costume, but if he was dressed in the military uniform of a German soldier from the late 1930's or early 40's then he pretty much was dressed like a Nazi. Was there a significant military presence in Germany at that time that was NOT part of the Nazi party?
I find this death to be horribly tragic. But I also find the analogy to someone wearing a KKK outfit in such a circumstance to be appropriate.
One comment: so the swastikas were removed from the costume, but if he was dressed in the military uniform of a German soldier from the late 1930's or early 40's then he pretty much was dressed like a Nazi. Was there a significant military presence in Germany at that time that was NOT part of the Nazi party?
I find this death to be horribly tragic. But I also find the analogy to someone wearing a KKK outfit in such a circumstance to be appropriate.
113
@111 That wasn't my point, but in this case the blanks WERE dangerous to him because they caused neighbors and police to think he was an actual threat.
116
Look, I just don't think that police recognize a nazi uniform unless you're wearing an armband with a swastika on it. The uniform really couldn't possibly have been an issue.
117
@115, to someone who doesn't have blue eyes and blond hair, yes, that looks like the anti-semite equivalent of a kkk outfit.
118
@116 - It may not have been an issue in the shooting, but it is pretty curious that the uniform was featured so prominently in the initial release of information about the shooting.
119
@118 - True. I think that once they saw all the German historical stuff in his flat that they freaked out a bit... I know I probably would have if the place was full of it.
120
Wow. I'm a German Studies major in Oregon. I feel bad for this guy. I hope there's a thorough investigation to find out what really happened.
121
the police intentionally played up that angle -- and it worked. it worked on slog yesterday where people said "one less neo-nazi" and unconditionally believed the police, and it's working today, where people are still equating him to wearing a kkk ghost outfit and hood while waving a confederate flag.
it makes the police look like they are not playing fair.
the police may have made a mistake. we must consider this. they already made a mistake assuming he was a nazi. they were wrong. so, did they make any other mistakes? or did they release any other information to the press that wasn't entirely true or wasn't verified yet?
it makes the police look like they are not playing fair.
the police may have made a mistake. we must consider this. they already made a mistake assuming he was a nazi. they were wrong. so, did they make any other mistakes? or did they release any other information to the press that wasn't entirely true or wasn't verified yet?
122
I looked at his MySpace pictures... I'm not well-informed about military history at all, but nothing there even remotely said "Nazi" to me (let alone "the anti-semite equivalent of a kkk outfit"). The battle re-enactment uniforms seemed to be German, Russian, Cossack...
Bearing in mind that I have no actual facts about the situation, just looking at the pictures I got the impression that his interests were more like "military history" and "battle re-enactment" than "Nazis".
Bearing in mind that I have no actual facts about the situation, just looking at the pictures I got the impression that his interests were more like "military history" and "battle re-enactment" than "Nazis".
123
@116...
Bottom line it does not matter what he was wearing, he pointed a weapon at a police officer, whether that was his intent or not and was shot and killed for this poor judgement.
Regardless of the bickering on this board, it's a tragedy. The kid is dead and I am sure the Police officers involved feel awful about it. However, I don't see where they did wrong nor do I see fault in how they handled the situation.
Bottom line it does not matter what he was wearing, he pointed a weapon at a police officer, whether that was his intent or not and was shot and killed for this poor judgement.
Regardless of the bickering on this board, it's a tragedy. The kid is dead and I am sure the Police officers involved feel awful about it. However, I don't see where they did wrong nor do I see fault in how they handled the situation.
124
I do feel sorry for the guy, but it does seem like an unavoidable tragedy. It reminds me of that tweaking guy who was waving a gun around at John and Broadway a year or so ago. Unfortunately in these cases, you really can't expect the police do anything other than what they've been trained to do.
125
@117 @115, to someone who doesn't have blue eyes and blond hair, yes, that looks like the anti-semite equivalent of a kkk outfit.
does a casper the friendly ghost outfit look like a kkk outfit? sure -- they are similar. but there is a big difference, and i submit a reasonable person can tell the difference.
i don't blame the neighbor's for calling the police -- i likely would have. but the police by calling him a nazi raised all these concerns that just shouldn't be there. in fact, it's legal to be a nazi in america just as it's legal to be an idiot.
let's not get distracted. that information just serves to taint the young man's side of the story.
does a casper the friendly ghost outfit look like a kkk outfit? sure -- they are similar. but there is a big difference, and i submit a reasonable person can tell the difference.
i don't blame the neighbor's for calling the police -- i likely would have. but the police by calling him a nazi raised all these concerns that just shouldn't be there. in fact, it's legal to be a nazi in america just as it's legal to be an idiot.
let's not get distracted. that information just serves to taint the young man's side of the story.
126
So why don't the cops gun down all those fake zombies when they show up in our neighborhoods?
I mean, Nazis are one thing, but Zombies are a real threat.
And if they could take out some of those twinkle Vampires while they're at it ...
I mean, Nazis are one thing, but Zombies are a real threat.
And if they could take out some of those twinkle Vampires while they're at it ...
127
He dressed up in Nazi uniforms, or Russian uniforms, or Confederate uniforms... Did he ever dress up in the uniform of a nation or group that wasn't a sworn enemy of the United States? Did he ever dress up as a Marine or a Navy Seal? Or was he always dressing up in the uniforms of those who tried to destroy the United States?
Sure, he might have been eccentric but "nice", but there is something inherently wrong with people who call themselves historical re-enactors but always choose to dress up in the uniform of those who oppressed and murdered others.
His death was tragic, but he glorified those who sought power through the barrel of a gun. He felt the same pain when the bullets hit him as did those who were shot by Nazis and by Stalin's murderers. And he is just as dead as any victim of Stalin's purges or Hitler's final solution.
Karma can be a bitch.
Sure, he might have been eccentric but "nice", but there is something inherently wrong with people who call themselves historical re-enactors but always choose to dress up in the uniform of those who oppressed and murdered others.
His death was tragic, but he glorified those who sought power through the barrel of a gun. He felt the same pain when the bullets hit him as did those who were shot by Nazis and by Stalin's murderers. And he is just as dead as any victim of Stalin's purges or Hitler's final solution.
Karma can be a bitch.
129
This was really a really sad and tragic affair all around. I feel bad for the young man, his friends and family, and the police officers.
The kid was a history buff. A bit passionate about it, to be sure, but that was his hobby and passion.
It certainly doesn't sound like he was a Nazi. For all who've posted who are equating the words 'german uniform' and 'Nazi', get this straight, for crying out loud: in WW2, very few members of the Wermacht, Kriegsmarine, and Luftwaffe were members of the Nazi party. Calling all Germans who fought in the war 'Nazis' is wrongheaded and analogous to calling all US GIs in the War 'Democrats' because of FDRs political affiliation. A soldier goes and does what he's told. Iraq isn't the first time soldiers have gone to a war that a lot of them probably thought was a sucky deal. So Naziphobes, chill. Nazis are evil, and they're out there; but this kid wasn't one.
Last year I sat on an Inquest Jury where a police shooting was reviewed. We listened to the witnesses, and even watched the squad car video that recorded the police officer shooting and killing the suspect (a bank robber). He REPEATEDLY told the suspect go get on the ground, instead, the guy attacked the officer, prompting the shooting. Obviously there will be an inquest, but on first blush, this sounds pretty open-and-shut. They told him to put the gun down, he pointed it at them. End of story.
Do we have to start teaching this shit in elementary school? It seems a no-brainer that when a cop tells you to do something, just do it! As a Citizen, you have a LEGAL OBLIGATION to obey Lawful Commands from a cop. You can sort it out later, and maybe even sue the City for a judgement if they're wrong, but at least you'll be alive.
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The kid was a history buff. A bit passionate about it, to be sure, but that was his hobby and passion.
It certainly doesn't sound like he was a Nazi. For all who've posted who are equating the words 'german uniform' and 'Nazi', get this straight, for crying out loud: in WW2, very few members of the Wermacht, Kriegsmarine, and Luftwaffe were members of the Nazi party. Calling all Germans who fought in the war 'Nazis' is wrongheaded and analogous to calling all US GIs in the War 'Democrats' because of FDRs political affiliation. A soldier goes and does what he's told. Iraq isn't the first time soldiers have gone to a war that a lot of them probably thought was a sucky deal. So Naziphobes, chill. Nazis are evil, and they're out there; but this kid wasn't one.
Last year I sat on an Inquest Jury where a police shooting was reviewed. We listened to the witnesses, and even watched the squad car video that recorded the police officer shooting and killing the suspect (a bank robber). He REPEATEDLY told the suspect go get on the ground, instead, the guy attacked the officer, prompting the shooting. Obviously there will be an inquest, but on first blush, this sounds pretty open-and-shut. They told him to put the gun down, he pointed it at them. End of story.
Do we have to start teaching this shit in elementary school? It seems a no-brainer that when a cop tells you to do something, just do it! As a Citizen, you have a LEGAL OBLIGATION to obey Lawful Commands from a cop. You can sort it out later, and maybe even sue the City for a judgement if they're wrong, but at least you'll be alive.
130
if firing blanks in the city isn't illegal, it probably should be. sorry the guy's dead, but that's an incredibly stupid thing to do.
132
Wow... will wonders never cease. Will in Seattle made me laugh @126. If I were in the habit of handing out "FTW"s.....
133
The Nazi thing is being over blown. I just read the Seattle Times article and the only reference to a Nazi was a statement from the neighbor. As a matter of fact, the only place I saw the word Nazi being repeated was in the original slog post from late yesterday.
Once again kids....don't point guns at cops.
Once again kids....don't point guns at cops.
134
@127 - Sorry, not buying it. I used to dress up as a 17th century British lady and the Brits oppressed the hell out of an entire empire. I've got no desire to anglicize India or nab resources from "darkest Africa". Finding fascination in historical periods doesn't even remotely mean there's something "inherently wrong" with a person.
135
He may not have been an actual nazi, but if reports from friends are true and he was firing blanks on people dressed in a nazi uniform to celebrate the new year, he was an actual nerd and an actual idiot for doing ANYTHING near police with a rifle. I'm sorry he was killed, and the police are pigs, but common sense has to play in somewhere here, and he has to be held partially accountable for not predicting that using some kind of weapon or thing that looks like a weapon near police would be a bad idea.
136
This is like a short bus merry-go-round- circular and retarded, with a tendency to drool. Can we just end the slog-on-slog violence?
137
I first heard about this from my father last night - he'd bought right into the story that a rabid Neo-Nazi was pointing a gun at policemen and was shot.
This morning I actually read an article about him in the paper, and it basically broke my heart. The guy sounds a lot like some other people I know - a little bit weird, fascinated with old army gear, but completely harmless. I understand the fascination with collecting Nazi memorabilia - on a purely aesthetic level, some of it is pretty damn cool looking. I'm not a Neo-Nazi in the slightest, but I will admit that Hitler had some damn good designers.
I wish I'd known Miles Murphy - he sounds like exactly the sort of quirky, slightly socially awkward person I love. My deepest sympathies to his friends and family.
This morning I actually read an article about him in the paper, and it basically broke my heart. The guy sounds a lot like some other people I know - a little bit weird, fascinated with old army gear, but completely harmless. I understand the fascination with collecting Nazi memorabilia - on a purely aesthetic level, some of it is pretty damn cool looking. I'm not a Neo-Nazi in the slightest, but I will admit that Hitler had some damn good designers.
I wish I'd known Miles Murphy - he sounds like exactly the sort of quirky, slightly socially awkward person I love. My deepest sympathies to his friends and family.
138
From what I've seen on his Myspace he had a variety of uniforms, including Russian ones. So that makes him a communist? Let's face it, the kid had a uniform fetish and that doesn't tell us anything about his political views.
139
Eh, 129 pretty much owned the whole thread. At this point it's just a few trolls fishing to rile up the slog regulars.
141
People, people, people...
RTFA (is often used against people who dont "read the fucking article" before commenting. In this case it might be the original poster (one Jonah Spangenthal-Lee) who maybe to blame for all the idiots posting about good riddance to a Nazi lover.
I'm not sure where he got his original info from, but it's quite obvious that it should be UPDATED. Regardless it is up to YOU ALL to get as much info about a topic as possible before opening your ignorant suck holes. Google it for christ sake.
If you go read the better informed articles from the Seattle Times & PI (I feel really odd suggesting the those two over The Stranger as a source of quality writing...sigh) you will find the following:
Mr. Murphy was not a Nazi lover, sympathizer or otherwise. Of the so-called questionable outfits he wore, he would always make sure "the outfits didn't have symbolic additions such as swastikas".
And I would love to line up average joe Seattle-ites and see them distinguish a German military out fit from other similar military outfits without the aid of a Swatika on it. Just cause you have played Call of Duty a few times and watched Saving Private Ryan doesn't make you an expert.
Mr. Murphy was likely an expert. Which is why he wore not just German WWII outfits and memorabilia, but also American, Russian, and others. He even went to work recently in a Civil War uniform.
It is obvious from all the testimony that he was a history buff. He was likely to end up being the kind of history teacher that really gets through to people because they love the topic. Imagine how much more interesting history class might have been to you as a kid if your teacher dressed up in costume or let you play with authentic items from the past, usually reserved to sit behind glass at a museum.
Of course my condolences go out to Mr. Murphy's friends and family, but I think we as a community may have lost something even more valuable in this day and age, than just another human life. We lost someone with a wealth of knowledge about the past and an obvious desire to learn more about it. We lost someone who UNLIKE most Americans wasn't ignorant regarding history.
Witnesses are already contradicting the story issued by SPD that Mr Murphy took aim at them.
I think in the end we will discover the only crime committed here was the discharging of a firearm on NYE. And I'll bet money that he probably got drunken encouragement by peers to fire off some blanks, under the guise that neighbors would think it was just fireworks...
I hope his collection is put to good use, maybe donated to a school or museum...maybe UW has a history teacher that will start dressing up for class.
"Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana (philosopher & poet)
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RTFA (is often used against people who dont "read the fucking article" before commenting. In this case it might be the original poster (one Jonah Spangenthal-Lee) who maybe to blame for all the idiots posting about good riddance to a Nazi lover.
I'm not sure where he got his original info from, but it's quite obvious that it should be UPDATED. Regardless it is up to YOU ALL to get as much info about a topic as possible before opening your ignorant suck holes. Google it for christ sake.
If you go read the better informed articles from the Seattle Times & PI (I feel really odd suggesting the those two over The Stranger as a source of quality writing...sigh) you will find the following:
Mr. Murphy was not a Nazi lover, sympathizer or otherwise. Of the so-called questionable outfits he wore, he would always make sure "the outfits didn't have symbolic additions such as swastikas".
And I would love to line up average joe Seattle-ites and see them distinguish a German military out fit from other similar military outfits without the aid of a Swatika on it. Just cause you have played Call of Duty a few times and watched Saving Private Ryan doesn't make you an expert.
Mr. Murphy was likely an expert. Which is why he wore not just German WWII outfits and memorabilia, but also American, Russian, and others. He even went to work recently in a Civil War uniform.
It is obvious from all the testimony that he was a history buff. He was likely to end up being the kind of history teacher that really gets through to people because they love the topic. Imagine how much more interesting history class might have been to you as a kid if your teacher dressed up in costume or let you play with authentic items from the past, usually reserved to sit behind glass at a museum.
Of course my condolences go out to Mr. Murphy's friends and family, but I think we as a community may have lost something even more valuable in this day and age, than just another human life. We lost someone with a wealth of knowledge about the past and an obvious desire to learn more about it. We lost someone who UNLIKE most Americans wasn't ignorant regarding history.
Witnesses are already contradicting the story issued by SPD that Mr Murphy took aim at them.
I think in the end we will discover the only crime committed here was the discharging of a firearm on NYE. And I'll bet money that he probably got drunken encouragement by peers to fire off some blanks, under the guise that neighbors would think it was just fireworks...
I hope his collection is put to good use, maybe donated to a school or museum...maybe UW has a history teacher that will start dressing up for class.
"Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana (philosopher & poet)
142
Remember when a kid was shot and killed in Greece and the entire country rioted for weeks at the very thought of police slaughtering an innocent young man? Too bad we live in a country where all we do is type into a comment box and follow meaningless threads while a young mans family and friends, who do in fact exist and in the very city we all share, will not forget about this as soon as the rest of us do.. Not to mention those poor police officers that will live the rest of their lives knowing they took an innocent young man's life.
144
Will...
What are doing looking out the window when you could be looking at this string of quasi-intelligent nuggets of ego? Look outside one more time and I'll f-ing punch you in your f-ing face. I'm serious. I'll do it. Don't test me.
What are doing looking out the window when you could be looking at this string of quasi-intelligent nuggets of ego? Look outside one more time and I'll f-ing punch you in your f-ing face. I'm serious. I'll do it. Don't test me.
145
My husband is a police officer.
This is obviously a painful time for the family. But if my husband was in this situation and a man pointed a gun at him, I want my husband to come home. Call it selfish, but I also have the common sense NOT to point a gun at a police officer.
My husband and I are two different type of people and don't see eye to eye on a lot of things, but I know from his training and experiences that he has had that when you order someone to put there weapon down and they do not comply you don't have time to check if the gun is loaded with real or fake bullets.
This is obviously a painful time for the family. But if my husband was in this situation and a man pointed a gun at him, I want my husband to come home. Call it selfish, but I also have the common sense NOT to point a gun at a police officer.
My husband and I are two different type of people and don't see eye to eye on a lot of things, but I know from his training and experiences that he has had that when you order someone to put there weapon down and they do not comply you don't have time to check if the gun is loaded with real or fake bullets.
146
As far as I can determine, thehttp://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2009/01/01/seattle_police_shoot_kill_man first reference to a "Nazi uniform" appeared on SLOG.
Even earlier, HorsesAss.org declared "Nazi shot in Seattle", echoing a P-I report (since revised) describing the man as an "apparent neo-Nazi".
Some other media described a "Nazi-era uniform".
Police reported finding "Nazi regalia" and "Nazi memorabilia" in an after the fact search of the man's apartment.
There is no indication the uniform played any role in the officers decision to fire, much less that the officers had concluded he was a Nazi.
Even earlier, HorsesAss.org declared "Nazi shot in Seattle", echoing a P-I report (since revised) describing the man as an "apparent neo-Nazi".
Some other media described a "Nazi-era uniform".
Police reported finding "Nazi regalia" and "Nazi memorabilia" in an after the fact search of the man's apartment.
There is no indication the uniform played any role in the officers decision to fire, much less that the officers had concluded he was a Nazi.
148
Jen:
You are the biggest bitch in the world. I wish you would get shot in the face by the cops and the Nazi-loving sloggers out there. Don't trivialize something as trivial as death.
You are the biggest bitch in the world. I wish you would get shot in the face by the cops and the Nazi-loving sloggers out there. Don't trivialize something as trivial as death.
149
@142, its not worth rioting over someone who pointed a gun at a police officer and got shot for it. Sheesh.
150
I am sorry about the loss of your friend, but this guy was doomed to a short life. He had a problem with alcohol and guns, and it was going to get him killed sooner or later. It's too bad he didn't live long enough to overcome his gun and alcohol problem, but honestly I'm glad he at least didn't hurt anyone else. The way he was going, he would have, and I thank the police for preventing that. It's too bad now the cops are going to get a lot of heat for this.
The whole Nazi angle kind of sexes this story up and serves as a distraction, but in the end what we have is an eccentric who clearly does not grasp the seriousness of firearms. Eccentrics attracted to electric trains or balloon animals are cute, but deadly weapons? Not cute. Deadly weapons, plus alcohol? In a densely populated city? Not cute at all. Not harmless.
I very much hope they throw the book at his friends who were with him when this happened. They are much more to blame for his death than the police. I kind of get the sense from some of these comments that his friends are working to avoid guilt for letting him get this far out of control. Your job was to talk sense into him, and instead it appears some of you actively encouraged and participated in this deadly game. Own up to that.
The whole Nazi angle kind of sexes this story up and serves as a distraction, but in the end what we have is an eccentric who clearly does not grasp the seriousness of firearms. Eccentrics attracted to electric trains or balloon animals are cute, but deadly weapons? Not cute. Deadly weapons, plus alcohol? In a densely populated city? Not cute at all. Not harmless.
I very much hope they throw the book at his friends who were with him when this happened. They are much more to blame for his death than the police. I kind of get the sense from some of these comments that his friends are working to avoid guilt for letting him get this far out of control. Your job was to talk sense into him, and instead it appears some of you actively encouraged and participated in this deadly game. Own up to that.
151
Don't start blaming me a-hole. I'm not the one harshing everyone else's New Year's mellow by forcing the cops' hands and gettin my ass shot. My hangover was bad enough as it was without having to listen to the news report about this kid fifty times. Holy crap- sick of it already. Next time I get wasted, I'll be sure to involve weapopns of all sorts and see which one is most likely to get me shot by the popo. I'm guessing rifle with bayonet attached would be in the top three, maybe behind bomb (without a deadman's switch) and laser-sighted sharks.
152
Ooh, I bet holding the Death Star would get you shot. Cops don't like planetary weapons systems.
154
How about wearing a Schwartz ring? It pretty much is a threat at any time. The Schwartz is both deadly and merchandisable.
155
I agree, the Schwartz is undeniably the worst thing to hold when confronted by cops. Anyone who is a Spaceballs buff should be careful on the next major drinking holiday- St Patricks Day. Unless, of course, you are alone and depressed and think that nobody loves you and that you should probably just off yourself to save everyone the worry of worrying about you, in which case you should probably not wait for March 17, but rather get shitcanned on Feb 14, just prior to shooting yourself, instead of letting the cops do it for you.
158
If you were to stroke your own Schwartz, would that get you shot? WHat if had a bayonet attached to it?
159
Who honestly cares if this fucktard was a Nazi or not? Anyone who points a gun, loaded or not, at a police officer is clearly a defective human being and, as such, rightly deserves to be put down. No tragedy here.
161
I don't give a shit about dead people, especially strangers, as I know after quite a few losses that it won't contribute to my well-being.
However, the police needs better training and maybe the requirements for joining the police are not well cosidered. Here in Germany cases of unnecessary use of force by the police are rare. But on the other hand, not everybody is allowed to carry guns around or use them in public. And shooting blanks "just for fun" is something one should not do in urban areas. Well, laws are different but there's almost always more than one opportunity to talk to the suspect/perpetrator. That's the important thing.
Pay attention to any opportunities that may let you solve some conflict with words or minimal force. That's what I know by experience as a soldier.
To judge upon someone it requires more than 5 short paragraphs. No matter how stupid this person might have acted.
If it says he shot at the police and thus they returned fire, fine, there's no ambiguity. If there are some ambiguities, one can simply not say what was right and what wrong.
However, the police needs better training and maybe the requirements for joining the police are not well cosidered. Here in Germany cases of unnecessary use of force by the police are rare. But on the other hand, not everybody is allowed to carry guns around or use them in public. And shooting blanks "just for fun" is something one should not do in urban areas. Well, laws are different but there's almost always more than one opportunity to talk to the suspect/perpetrator. That's the important thing.
Pay attention to any opportunities that may let you solve some conflict with words or minimal force. That's what I know by experience as a soldier.
To judge upon someone it requires more than 5 short paragraphs. No matter how stupid this person might have acted.
If it says he shot at the police and thus they returned fire, fine, there's no ambiguity. If there are some ambiguities, one can simply not say what was right and what wrong.
162
The real tragedy here is that the Schwartz is Druish and therefore anti-Nazi and therefore would not be as heartily defended by the anti-semitic pricks out there who have been covering up for this weirdo who wanted to kill Princess Vespa.
168
Yeah! Teach tolerance by dressing up in Nazi uniforms and shoot guns off in front your Jewish neighbors houses! We love tolerance, tra la la! We're all a big happy family!
169
How the hell did this become a Spaceballs thread? You guys have no sympathy and should reexamine your souls.
170
tolerant one & hopeternal both need to go hold hands and cry together for this obviously-misguided, societally-retarded goofball.
171
I think that hopeternal is the worst name I have ever seen attached to anything on the internet. The worst, by far.
172
you guys ought to let this go.
no more shoulda coulda woulda's...none of you know any better than anyone else.
one of these days were all gonna have to eat the bullet.
have compassion and patience for each other while you still have the option.
no more shoulda coulda woulda's...none of you know any better than anyone else.
one of these days were all gonna have to eat the bullet.
have compassion and patience for each other while you still have the option.
176
To Miles' Friends:
You're complicit in his death for not sitting him down and having a talk about his obsession with Nazis.
You are doing full-court-press damage control, but it is not working.
You're complicit in his death for not sitting him down and having a talk about his obsession with Nazis.
You are doing full-court-press damage control, but it is not working.
177
One more thought, friends. It's easy to call the young man who was shot 'stupid'. If it's true that he didn't put the gun down, and worse, pointed it at the cops, that was monumentally stupid. Police officers really don't like to shoot people (trust me on this one), but they don't want to be dead any more than you or me. Their training and operating protocol is pretty cut and dried on this one: if it looks like a gun, you have to go on the assumption it is one; you're not required to wait until the other guy proves it by blowing your brains out.
Yeah, running around drunk on NWE waving a rifle in a city isn't smart; but most of us have, at some point in our lives, done Some Incredibly Stupid Thing that could've got us killed, but got lucky. This poor kid did a Really Dumb Thing, and was unlucky as well. It's a sad thing all around, and the best we can do is learn what we can from it.
Yeah, running around drunk on NWE waving a rifle in a city isn't smart; but most of us have, at some point in our lives, done Some Incredibly Stupid Thing that could've got us killed, but got lucky. This poor kid did a Really Dumb Thing, and was unlucky as well. It's a sad thing all around, and the best we can do is learn what we can from it.
178
Well if he wore the same uniform in the picture on the night he got shot, I can see how you would mistake him for a neo-nazi. Cause if you look real close you can see the deaths head on the cap. Yes friends thats a Schutzstaffle uniform(SS), but I don't know what unit. I do a little WWII German reenacting.
Now I know this kid wasn't a neo-nazi, but he was dumb for wearing this uniform outside firing blanks. Most reenactors I know don't go around wearing full SS, Wehrmacht uniforms in public(unless its a public event) For the simple fact people jump to conclusions and think you're some kind of neo-nazi.
I don't really care for law enforcement either, but this kid was just plain dumb!
Now I know this kid wasn't a neo-nazi, but he was dumb for wearing this uniform outside firing blanks. Most reenactors I know don't go around wearing full SS, Wehrmacht uniforms in public(unless its a public event) For the simple fact people jump to conclusions and think you're some kind of neo-nazi.
I don't really care for law enforcement either, but this kid was just plain dumb!
180
Compassion, yeah! C'mon guys, have some compassion, like the guy shooting his rifle at his neighbors! He's the role model of compassion! Always understanding of how celebrating the military makes people victimized by the military feel!
187
Hey trolls: does burying this conversation in incoherent garbage exonerate you from culpability?
188
What?! You went over my helmet? I LOVE SPACEBALLS! Thanks for a better thread than this was becoming.
189
I'll leave all the culpability to you and your retard friend. Cops did the right thing- nuff said. Go protest the North Precinct if you want sympathy.
190
Jesus Christ, some of these people just don't get it, or don't have very good reading comprehension skills.
THIS PERSON WAS NOT A NAZI. OR A NEO-NAZI. OR A NAZI SYMPATHIZER.
#104, I'll just make a quick reply to you (anyone still reading this?), since you replied to me:
It is perfectly legal to dress up in a KKK uniform. Whether anyone else feels threatened, or calls the police, or decides to take matters into their own hands, is immaterial. It is legal. I don't need to put my "free country" theory to the test. It has been tested many times in our courts. You may want to look into the landmark case involving neo-Nazis (real neo-Nazis) marching through Skokie, Illinois.
I am not defending the practice of shooting a rifle in the city, or pointing a rifle at anyone. And just to make things crystal clear, I'm not defending the beliefs of Nazis or Klan members. But it's legal to wear a Nazi or KKK uniform. It's just that simple, and really not a matter for debate. Happy new year!
THIS PERSON WAS NOT A NAZI. OR A NEO-NAZI. OR A NAZI SYMPATHIZER.
#104, I'll just make a quick reply to you (anyone still reading this?), since you replied to me:
It is perfectly legal to dress up in a KKK uniform. Whether anyone else feels threatened, or calls the police, or decides to take matters into their own hands, is immaterial. It is legal. I don't need to put my "free country" theory to the test. It has been tested many times in our courts. You may want to look into the landmark case involving neo-Nazis (real neo-Nazis) marching through Skokie, Illinois.
I am not defending the practice of shooting a rifle in the city, or pointing a rifle at anyone. And just to make things crystal clear, I'm not defending the beliefs of Nazis or Klan members. But it's legal to wear a Nazi or KKK uniform. It's just that simple, and really not a matter for debate. Happy new year!
191
Wow, Ecce Homo. This is the most cowardly I've ever seen you. Did a military reenactor not give you a reacharound once or what?
192
Let's say you had a couple drinks and are driving home and get stopped by a cop. He asks for your drivers license and you reach into your pocket of under the seat where your wallet fell. The cop shoots you. You deserved to die because you didn't do exactly the right thing when you were stopped by a cop?
Let's say the cops bang on your door at 2am by mistake. They meant to get your neighbor, who's a suspect in a crime. But you answer the door and freak out a little and reach for your glasses. They shoot you. You deserve to die because you didn't do the right thing?
Cops are paid to put themselves in harm's way. They're paid and trained to accurately assess situations. To offer that they felt "threatened" is no excuse. Cops here in LA have beaten picnickers, shot screwdriver-wielding homeless women, and people who freak out when wrongly arrested. They have a hell of a hard job, but they MUST be held to a higher standard than the average citizen because they have all the firepower.
Let's say the cops bang on your door at 2am by mistake. They meant to get your neighbor, who's a suspect in a crime. But you answer the door and freak out a little and reach for your glasses. They shoot you. You deserve to die because you didn't do the right thing?
Cops are paid to put themselves in harm's way. They're paid and trained to accurately assess situations. To offer that they felt "threatened" is no excuse. Cops here in LA have beaten picnickers, shot screwdriver-wielding homeless women, and people who freak out when wrongly arrested. They have a hell of a hard job, but they MUST be held to a higher standard than the average citizen because they have all the firepower.
194
I, for one, feel much better about myself. Saying it outloud (which is two words dumbass) doesn't make him any less responsible for firing a gun in the middle of the night. I told you never to call me on this wall. This is an unlisted wall!
197
Hey call me a dumbass but I am not the one who decided to go traipsing about in Nazi Era uniform shooting off a gun, then refusing to drop it upon orders from the police on a night that was not Halloween.
I mispelled a word but I am not DEAD.
I mispelled a word but I am not DEAD.
199
Hey, Stranger - any chance of an in-depth article on this guy? He sounds interesting, and it'd be nice to have something more thorough than what's on the news now.
200
*pops champaign*
200 COMMENTS!!
is that a record for Slog?
Not even pit bulls or dogs in bars have seen this type of proliferation
200 COMMENTS!!
is that a record for Slog?
Not even pit bulls or dogs in bars have seen this type of proliferation
201
@143: Given the nation-state oriented lens which dominates our understanding of the past, war is an extremely important part of history as it is perhaps the most poignant way in which nation-states express themselves. Whether you like it or not, war pervades most of history literature... if you don't believe me, just turn on the history channel.
Regardless, I've read things that suggest Mr. Murphy was also interested in cultural aspects (i.e. lederhosen, kilts, vintage music and musical instruments.)
Regardless, I've read things that suggest Mr. Murphy was also interested in cultural aspects (i.e. lederhosen, kilts, vintage music and musical instruments.)
202
Wow 192, too bad reaching for your glasses or wallet is in no way similar to swinging the rifle with bayonet you're already holding to point at the cops.
203
there's really only one issue here and it has nothing to do with him shooting blanks before the cops showed up or how he was dressed or whether or not he was weird.
the dumbass never should have walked out of his front door to confront the cops with a weapon; be it a rifle, a toy or a pointy stick. you are right, his manner of dress has no bearing here but his actions do. and his actions were to go outside where cops with weapons drawn were telling him to put the gun down. you walk out of your house and point a weapon at a cop and you're gonna get shot. in my book this guy was a darwin award waiting to happen.
and to all his friends that loved him SO MUCH did any of you try and stop him from walking out the front door to confront the cops with a rifle? did anyone say, "dude, fucking stop, put the rifle down?" yeah, you cared so much about him.
the dumbass never should have walked out of his front door to confront the cops with a weapon; be it a rifle, a toy or a pointy stick. you are right, his manner of dress has no bearing here but his actions do. and his actions were to go outside where cops with weapons drawn were telling him to put the gun down. you walk out of your house and point a weapon at a cop and you're gonna get shot. in my book this guy was a darwin award waiting to happen.
and to all his friends that loved him SO MUCH did any of you try and stop him from walking out the front door to confront the cops with a rifle? did anyone say, "dude, fucking stop, put the rifle down?" yeah, you cared so much about him.
204
Also, Stranger, any chance you'll change the headline on the original post? You know, the one that says "Nazi uniform" when it apparently wasn't? All in the interest of journalistic integrity and accuracy, of course.
205
I totally agree that this kid was idiotic and I would have shot his ass, too. I would like to argue with you endlessly about the intentional and unintentional consequences of gunplay and Holocaust reenactments. I can't believe that he actually had ovens built for authenticity. What's next- gas chambers?
206
What kind of information was this kid getting, as a "German Studies" major? What do his instructors have to say about this? Sounds like truth hadn't percolated yet in this college senior; was he preparing for a career in fashion? Maybe he wanted to become a Fremdsprachensekretär.
I have a B.A. in German and studied history in Germany for six years. This wouldn't have happened over there--not only would people understand the significance, but guns and Nazi uniforms are illegal (pretty much anything else goes).
It was my observation that any foreign students who came to my German university to study history and had a focus on WWII were closet naziphiles. Sooner or later it always came out. However, that doesn't apply to Miles Murphy.
I have a B.A. in German and studied history in Germany for six years. This wouldn't have happened over there--not only would people understand the significance, but guns and Nazi uniforms are illegal (pretty much anything else goes).
It was my observation that any foreign students who came to my German university to study history and had a focus on WWII were closet naziphiles. Sooner or later it always came out. However, that doesn't apply to Miles Murphy.
207
Frankly, I can't believe that he "actually had ovens built" for "Holocaust reenactments" (who played the victims??) either. I'm not saying you're wrong, #205, but where did you read that?
209
Cops lie all the time. Especially when one of their own fucks up and kills somebody unnecessarily. Sounds like the kid was a bit lit (it was New Year's Eve after all) and didn't drop the gun fast enough. The German uniform probably wigged the cops out and led to them misinterpreting the whole situation. Bottom line, if the kid didn't point the gun at the officers they had no right to kill him. That's why the cops are saying he did. But it sounds like the kid wasn't crazy, so...
Cops lie all the time....
Cops lie all the time....
211
@201: The History Channel is no proper example of anything about knowing history. If I was to base my knowledge of history on what they showed, I'd only study WWII and the occasional Roman event. (Maybe the occasional juicy special on medieval Christian conspiracies, if the next Da Vinci Code movie comes out.) As someone very interested in history, who studies and reads a lot of it, I don't like being told that the only way to be an expert, to feel passionately about the subject, is to be a war reenactor, or even to obsess on the military. There's more to any history than battles. Hell, there's more to war history than battles.
You may be right on the second point- I took a Weimar Culture class with the deceased a few years ago. I wish more students of German kept an interest in that, rather than focusing on the explosion parts of history.
You may be right on the second point- I took a Weimar Culture class with the deceased a few years ago. I wish more students of German kept an interest in that, rather than focusing on the explosion parts of history.
212
The news reports (it’s all I have to go on, I wasn’t there) also said the rifle had a bayonet. So he was armed two different ways.
He should have not been so drunk, high, or at least self-absorbed enough to not comprehend that you always listen and COMPLY with a cop. 9 out of 10 times, the cop is correct when they yell: stop, or drop it, or get your ass over here. No one in America is above the law. He did not comply and there are consequences.
But still, WTF was he thinking? Why didn’t any of his "friends" say “knock that shit off, you ain’t in your mama’s backyard in Maple Valley. That shit you do will get you killed. “ He was shooting a gun. He was ASKING to have the cops called on his ass. He should dropped the weapon, he could have then gone out to the woods on Jan 1 to make gun pops.
Remember John Malvo, the belt-way sniper, who lived in Tacoma and used a backyard stump for target practice. (they found bullets in it which matched the bullets found in those dead folks, btw) And the local TV media swarmed all over that neighborhood talking to neighbors and everyone interviewed said gun shots were common in the neighborhood and aren’t something they call the cops about. And those who remembered that kid all said he seemed so normal, but kind of kept to himself.WTF.
Sorry your “friend” died but his actions deserved to have the police called. And police do what the police do, which is keep the peace, by force if necessary. That’s the law. Advocate to have it changed if you don’t like it. You won’t get far, but yeah, advocate anyways.
sorry if (I am going out on a limb here) that the big scary media is maligning the “good name” (I guess from the vociferousness of the postings about him being called a nazi) the “good-name” of nazis and neo-nazis, but weird people get called weird (labels such as nazi) and often inaccurate things by other people. Too bad he didn’t live long enough to find out that life lesson.
But really now. For those of us still living...
Don’t.Disrespect.A.Cop.By.Not.Doing.What.They.Ask. that is the bottom line, kids.
More...
He should have not been so drunk, high, or at least self-absorbed enough to not comprehend that you always listen and COMPLY with a cop. 9 out of 10 times, the cop is correct when they yell: stop, or drop it, or get your ass over here. No one in America is above the law. He did not comply and there are consequences.
But still, WTF was he thinking? Why didn’t any of his "friends" say “knock that shit off, you ain’t in your mama’s backyard in Maple Valley. That shit you do will get you killed. “ He was shooting a gun. He was ASKING to have the cops called on his ass. He should dropped the weapon, he could have then gone out to the woods on Jan 1 to make gun pops.
Remember John Malvo, the belt-way sniper, who lived in Tacoma and used a backyard stump for target practice. (they found bullets in it which matched the bullets found in those dead folks, btw) And the local TV media swarmed all over that neighborhood talking to neighbors and everyone interviewed said gun shots were common in the neighborhood and aren’t something they call the cops about. And those who remembered that kid all said he seemed so normal, but kind of kept to himself.WTF.
Sorry your “friend” died but his actions deserved to have the police called. And police do what the police do, which is keep the peace, by force if necessary. That’s the law. Advocate to have it changed if you don’t like it. You won’t get far, but yeah, advocate anyways.
sorry if (I am going out on a limb here) that the big scary media is maligning the “good name” (I guess from the vociferousness of the postings about him being called a nazi) the “good-name” of nazis and neo-nazis, but weird people get called weird (labels such as nazi) and often inaccurate things by other people. Too bad he didn’t live long enough to find out that life lesson.
But really now. For those of us still living...
Don’t.Disrespect.A.Cop.By.Not.Doing.What.They.Ask. that is the bottom line, kids.
213
@204: Do you know what uniform he was wearing? Cause if he was wearing the same one as in the photo of this article then it was a "Nazi" uniform.
I'm a little rusty, but I'm pretty sure deaths head insignia(which is on his cap)was reserved for SS troops only! SS troops where a political army and fought for the facist idea.
Once again I'm not saying the kid was a neo-nazi, but I can see why the first reports of him being one happened. I'm sure he wasn't shot because of the uniform. I am sure he was wrongly labeled a neo-nazi because of it.
I'm a little rusty, but I'm pretty sure deaths head insignia(which is on his cap)was reserved for SS troops only! SS troops where a political army and fought for the facist idea.
Once again I'm not saying the kid was a neo-nazi, but I can see why the first reports of him being one happened. I'm sure he wasn't shot because of the uniform. I am sure he was wrongly labeled a neo-nazi because of it.
214
200+ comments and the only ones with an ounce of intelligence are in reference to a Mel Brooks spoof of Star Wars, among other movies. This is a sad commentary on a city that used to be bitch-ass free. Sad indeed...
216
Amen OTL, these whiners need to give it a rest. For the love of sanity, please shut the hell up about this little Jew-hating piece of shit.
217
I'm wondering why everyone is so willing to take the cops story as gospel truth here. Anyone who has ever had REAL run in with the cops knows that they lie all the time. Because two or more cops testifying in court to the same story pretty much trumps any number of citizen testimonies. Unless he was completely insane (which seems not to be the case) why would he point the gun at the cops? Something is really fishy about this.
218
WORD UP 214, this used-ta-be-bitch-ass-free city where we could kill people without all these whiners, man those were the days. Goddamn cops & whiny 911 callers, expecting people to not shoot rifles in their neighborhoods... what's this city coming to?
219
217, He seems pretty goddamn completely insane to me. He is the only person of the "re-enactment" community I've heard of who fires off guns in the city at 2AM while drunk.
220
You people are pathetic.
As a Jew I believe anyone in a German uniform of any kind deserves to die. It makes me suffer to look at anything having to do with the German military.
The Stranger has always been Seattle's only strong pro-Israel pro-Jewish voice so it doesn't suprise me everyone Slog supports killing anyone in a German military outfit.
If it was up to me everything about Germany would be illegal.
By the way instead of commenting on this nonsense, how about some support for Israel's successful war in Gaza. So far we've killed 400 islamo-terrorists! Mazel Tov!
As a Jew I believe anyone in a German uniform of any kind deserves to die. It makes me suffer to look at anything having to do with the German military.
The Stranger has always been Seattle's only strong pro-Israel pro-Jewish voice so it doesn't suprise me everyone Slog supports killing anyone in a German military outfit.
If it was up to me everything about Germany would be illegal.
By the way instead of commenting on this nonsense, how about some support for Israel's successful war in Gaza. So far we've killed 400 islamo-terrorists! Mazel Tov!
221
The guy was firing blanks, no bullets, the cops around here continualy show their incompetence, take for example when they tazed a small black bear to death in the U-district a few years ago, idiots
222
Protip: If you point a gun at a person who is armed, make sure it is a) loaded and b) that you pull the trigger first. Otherwise, DON'T FUCKING POINT A GUN AT AN ARMED PERSON!
And anyone who regularly dresses up in Confederate and WWII-era German uniforms is a sick fuck. Same with anyone who displays the red rag of treason and tries to dress it up as 'heritage'. And the reason is because those things are fundamentally and inextricably representative of strains of evil that are very much alive and present within American society.
And anyone who regularly dresses up in Confederate and WWII-era German uniforms is a sick fuck. Same with anyone who displays the red rag of treason and tries to dress it up as 'heritage'. And the reason is because those things are fundamentally and inextricably representative of strains of evil that are very much alive and present within American society.
223
218: They should all be shot and the 911 call center should be disbanded and turned into a 900 number studio. That would rock my sheeit.
224
Quote from #215's link:
"The shooting is still under investigation, so we'll eventually find out for sure whether or not Murphy did in fact raise the gun toward the officers. Police, however, generally don't make this stuff up. We don't live in a gritty cop drama wherein corrupt cops all cover for one another after a bad shooting."
Sounds like a highly naive white guy who has never had a single incident with police. We will probably NOT find out for sure what happened. Police do generally make this stuff up. Not only is the officers’ career in jeopardy, but his freedom as well...and ex-police don’t do to well in prison. It's not a matter of "corrupt" cops conspiring. Most police (and many non-police) would say that police work is a hard job and they're lives are at risk everyday. Situations like this makes stretching the truth (or flat out lying) justified because it keeps an officer who’s made a mistake (but is otherwise a good cop) in his job and out of jail.
"The shooting is still under investigation, so we'll eventually find out for sure whether or not Murphy did in fact raise the gun toward the officers. Police, however, generally don't make this stuff up. We don't live in a gritty cop drama wherein corrupt cops all cover for one another after a bad shooting."
Sounds like a highly naive white guy who has never had a single incident with police. We will probably NOT find out for sure what happened. Police do generally make this stuff up. Not only is the officers’ career in jeopardy, but his freedom as well...and ex-police don’t do to well in prison. It's not a matter of "corrupt" cops conspiring. Most police (and many non-police) would say that police work is a hard job and they're lives are at risk everyday. Situations like this makes stretching the truth (or flat out lying) justified because it keeps an officer who’s made a mistake (but is otherwise a good cop) in his job and out of jail.
226
LoL!
I just hate guns and feel they should be outlawed like in Israel. As a Jew I'd feel much safer if only the police had guns in our society.
Seattle has a creepy wild west edge to it, like a smelly old logging and fishing town where men wear flannel shirts and shoot guns. That is pathetic.
I moved here from Manhattan to live in a real city, not redneckville.
Good riddance to all German History majors. The Stranger is right, these 'Seattle Natives' are creeps. I'm going to demand my condo board ban guns and anything having to do with Germany.
But can we PLEASE talk more about Israels great success in killing hundreds of Islamo-Fascists and their wives and chidren? Judaism is a religion of peace, and war will bring peace to the Middle East.
I just hate guns and feel they should be outlawed like in Israel. As a Jew I'd feel much safer if only the police had guns in our society.
Seattle has a creepy wild west edge to it, like a smelly old logging and fishing town where men wear flannel shirts and shoot guns. That is pathetic.
I moved here from Manhattan to live in a real city, not redneckville.
Good riddance to all German History majors. The Stranger is right, these 'Seattle Natives' are creeps. I'm going to demand my condo board ban guns and anything having to do with Germany.
But can we PLEASE talk more about Israels great success in killing hundreds of Islamo-Fascists and their wives and chidren? Judaism is a religion of peace, and war will bring peace to the Middle East.
227
Who would win in a fight between Barf and Mondo from Blazing Saddles? I got money on Mondo, but Barf is one wily dog.
228
seattlest calls me, "completely naive (via Slog)," for suggesting that police officers ought to give people a chance to put down their weapon before firing.
nice.
it's not naive, it's pretty much the law. police usually identify themselves, and order the person to drop the weapon. the writer's opinion is tainted, in my view, if they have a problem with that.
nice.
it's not naive, it's pretty much the law. police usually identify themselves, and order the person to drop the weapon. the writer's opinion is tainted, in my view, if they have a problem with that.
229
Where's the Grand Theft Auto version of the Middle East? You could pick up the suicide bombing vest and take it to em. Or you could play the counter-terrorist expert trying to stop... naah, that's pretty played out. GTA: Marytrdom on shelves this summer.
230
Also: that's a Waffen-SS uniform he's wearing in the photo above. You can tell my the Totemkopf (Death's Head) on the hat band. That is to say, he's wearing the uniform of the Nazi fanatics who ran the death camps and carried out most of the worst atrocities of the war.
231
OMFG he had NAZI uniforms!!! And Russian uniforms, who were COMMIES and the mortal enemies of NAZIS!
Oh, and judging by that picture, the vintage WWII uniform had the swastikas removed.
I didn't know this guy, but he seems like an interesting character, a lot more interesting than most people. I wish he was my friend. There should be an investigation into this. The 5200 block of 17th is almost entirely college students, and the police should not have gone in there with guns blazing.
I smell a story, Stranger. You got your people on it?
Oh, and judging by that picture, the vintage WWII uniform had the swastikas removed.
I didn't know this guy, but he seems like an interesting character, a lot more interesting than most people. I wish he was my friend. There should be an investigation into this. The 5200 block of 17th is almost entirely college students, and the police should not have gone in there with guns blazing.
I smell a story, Stranger. You got your people on it?
232
I love how everyone is going against Miles and defending the police, who are notoriously racist. Police are known for targeting and setting up african americans, mexicans, etc. Yet one man dresses up in a German military outfit and he's a SICK RACIST FUCK?? Look at the military uniform Miles was wearing in that picture, do you SEE any swastikas? No. He did NOT support Nazis. He was simply fascinated by WWII. You can be fascinated in something and not support it. I don't see what is wrong with all of you. He was only 22, he was just a kid. He was brilliant, he was different, and he was killed for nothing. Have some fucking respect. Miles will be missed more than any of you can imagine.
233
I think a better story would be about an idiot named Matt thinking that a good story would be to glorify a kid could stayed awake past midnight on NYE and may have been drinking. It's time to end the madness people: alcohol abuse is an epidemic in our youth and must be extinguished. I say we put em on a boat and set it adrift. By the time they come out of their drunk stupors, they will not be able to remember where they came from. It may work with those dirty potheads, too. Let's try and find out. Anybody got a boat I can use?
234
231: Actually, the only thing that's been visibly removed from the uniform in that picture is the rank insignia. The totemkopf is still present, and the eagles on the hat and on the sleeve are each clutching a swastika in a wreath in its claws, although you can't really see either one in that picture.
Amusingly, he's not wearing the uniform properly. The hat belongs to a commissioned officer and the belt belongs to an NCO.
Amusingly, he's not wearing the uniform properly. The hat belongs to a commissioned officer and the belt belongs to an NCO.
236
LoL!
The Stranger should do a story about another DEAD Christian idiot good riddance.
As Seattle's only pro-war pro-Israel newspaper, The Stranger has always ridiculed anyone interested in German history.
I believe we shold boycott the German History department at UW and get it changed to Talmud studies. The money would be better spent.
As for killing University students, there is a war on and we must support Israel. During the Viet Nam war a few University Students were shot. I am GLAD the police are trained to go into the Univeristy Disctrict with a shoot to kill attitude. There could be some ant-Israel demonstrations as Obama spreads the war to Pakistan.
I believe the best way to handle University Student weirdos is to shoot first ask questions later.
Israel does the same in Palestine. Every effort must be made to kill German sympathizers and islamo-fascists.
The Stranger is right, this University of Washington student is better off dead. He was an idiot.
Mazel Tov!
The Stranger should do a story about another DEAD Christian idiot good riddance.
As Seattle's only pro-war pro-Israel newspaper, The Stranger has always ridiculed anyone interested in German history.
I believe we shold boycott the German History department at UW and get it changed to Talmud studies. The money would be better spent.
As for killing University students, there is a war on and we must support Israel. During the Viet Nam war a few University Students were shot. I am GLAD the police are trained to go into the Univeristy Disctrict with a shoot to kill attitude. There could be some ant-Israel demonstrations as Obama spreads the war to Pakistan.
I believe the best way to handle University Student weirdos is to shoot first ask questions later.
Israel does the same in Palestine. Every effort must be made to kill German sympathizers and islamo-fascists.
The Stranger is right, this University of Washington student is better off dead. He was an idiot.
Mazel Tov!
237
"He was brilliant, he was different, and he was killed for nothing. Have some fucking respect."
Different, like the VA tech shooter? Different, like the Columbine kids? Have some respect, like the respect he was showing his neighbors by firing off his rifle? The same respect he was showing to the Jewish community by dressing up in German military uniforms to celebrate 2009 with?
Different, like the VA tech shooter? Different, like the Columbine kids? Have some respect, like the respect he was showing his neighbors by firing off his rifle? The same respect he was showing to the Jewish community by dressing up in German military uniforms to celebrate 2009 with?
238
Whatever your opinion, perspective, level of knowledge, depth of understanding, ability to tolerate differences, let us ALL remember that a son, a brother, a friend, has died too soon in circumstances that are incomprehensible to most of us. May your words here be tempered with compassion and respect for all those affected by this tragedy.
239
232: I see evidence of at least three swastikas on that uniform -- one on the hat and one on each sleeve, in the claws of the eagles there. And the totemkopf is a symbol of equally horrifying import in the context of that uniform.
243
Issur- As a Jew who was friends with Miles I am telling you you are misinformed. Dont be ignorant, its better for you to just not say anything at all if you are not informed. I ran into Miles on the Ave this summer after I returned from Israel; he was interested to hear how my trip went and told me about a trip he went on. I dont know how many times it has to be said for people to understand it; Those of us who knew him are telling you who he was, and he was in no way a nazi or white supremacist of any kind and did not hold those views.
244
I dont care what uniform he was wearing, he was a student with a loaded gun who was confirmed firing it in a campus / student area.
If he had been a Virginia Tech style shooter, would anyone have complimented police on quick action?
I agree its sad, stupid and sad, this guy died.
But in the context of what police are looking at dealing with, how are they supposed to know kid + gun + reports of shots fired == nice charming eccentric intellect who can't follow directions while drunk, rather than shooting rampage about to start. Oh, and you have 2 seconds to decide, at most.
If he had been a Virginia Tech style shooter, would anyone have complimented police on quick action?
I agree its sad, stupid and sad, this guy died.
But in the context of what police are looking at dealing with, how are they supposed to know kid + gun + reports of shots fired == nice charming eccentric intellect who can't follow directions while drunk, rather than shooting rampage about to start. Oh, and you have 2 seconds to decide, at most.
245
Are you talking about Geddy or Van Cleef? Spaghetti could reference either and I love them both enough to dip my balls in whatever sauce is available for dipping- except for Jack in the Box's Sweet and Sour. Holy shit, what a nasty viscous liquid that is!
247
Dude!!! I hate J-in-da-B's S&S!!! It is the worst possible substance known to man! Thank you for spreading the gospel of nastyness- not to be mistaken for Nasty Nate's Jungle of Love, of course.
248
If you think your Shawn Kemp's only bartender, you are sadly delusional. Hint: he's cheating on you.
250
Comment thread is cooling down.... Time for the SLOG editors to bump this story to the top! You know you want to!
251
There's nothing cool about a thread that turns to Jack in the Box and it's bevy of gross sauces. What a foul thing indeed- looks like goo from the mouth of a vagina-faced alien.
252
How about if the young man would have dropped the weapon when he saw the police he would be alive today. At 2 a.m. in the morning, second chances are hard to come by.
253
Evidently, you sad trolls are not aware of the true impact of non vagina-faced aliens. The sauces that resemble NVFAs are far worse and not to be trusted in any manner, whatsoever. The saucy androgyny of it all!
254
228 (Infrequent): Reportedly the officers did order him to drop the weapon and there is absolutely nothing to indicate that the officers did not identify themselves.
And yes, I am saying "reportedly"--and did so in my post as well.
And yes, I am saying "reportedly"--and did so in my post as well.
255
Personally, I have no problems with VFAs as long as I can lick them till they spill their juices on me.
256
Am I in the right place? I don't understand the relevance of vagina-faced aliens and how they produce sweet and sour sauce from their vagina-like faces. How else would the canned ham dropped from a building expel the goo it was packed in?
261
To be honest, I find the Nazi out-fit far less ridiculous than skinny jeans, sleeve tattoos and long parted hair.
263
If a citizen kills someone in error, they are charged with manslaughter. Hell, when the police break down an innocent citizen's door in a no knock drug raid, and the occupant shoots an officer out of fear, that person often gets charged with murder. Why shouldn't the police be held to the same standard? The police should not have extra liberty to use deadly force simply because they are the police. Every time a shooting like this occurs people automatically blames the victim. The fact is having a gun is not a crime in this country, and the fact that he was holding one did not give officers the right to open fire.
I'm not saying the police were wrong, I'm saying it needs to be investigated.
I'm not saying the police were wrong, I'm saying it needs to be investigated.
265
I dunno, but if slog writers get paid by comment count, expect a lot more articles about young boys in nazi regalia.
266
@ 254
228 (Infrequent): Reportedly the officers did order him to drop the weapon and there is absolutely nothing to indicate that the officers did not identify themselves.
And yes, I am saying "reportedly"--and did so in my post as well.
Posted by Seattlest Jack
uh, if that's what happened, why is my comment naive?
because i'm suggesting that events may not have gone the way the police say they did? that's all i'm getting at. the first report was so happy to point out this was a neo-nazi, thus predisposing us to dislike the deceased. that's not playing fair by the police, or they made a mistake.
the police seemed (early on) to provide this information as if it were justification for the officer's actions -- and as you can see, it worked. that is one of the largest points of contention regarding the issue.
all i'm saying is that well-meaning police can make mistakes. i find both stories hard to believe, so i'm not sure what i'm left with. did an intelligent man point a gun at officers who ordered him multiple times to drop it? or did the police shoot when he answered the door holding a gun and didn't drop it fast enough or in the way they expected?
to ask this question is not naive -- it's asking for accountability.
228 (Infrequent): Reportedly the officers did order him to drop the weapon and there is absolutely nothing to indicate that the officers did not identify themselves.
And yes, I am saying "reportedly"--and did so in my post as well.
Posted by Seattlest Jack
uh, if that's what happened, why is my comment naive?
because i'm suggesting that events may not have gone the way the police say they did? that's all i'm getting at. the first report was so happy to point out this was a neo-nazi, thus predisposing us to dislike the deceased. that's not playing fair by the police, or they made a mistake.
the police seemed (early on) to provide this information as if it were justification for the officer's actions -- and as you can see, it worked. that is one of the largest points of contention regarding the issue.
all i'm saying is that well-meaning police can make mistakes. i find both stories hard to believe, so i'm not sure what i'm left with. did an intelligent man point a gun at officers who ordered him multiple times to drop it? or did the police shoot when he answered the door holding a gun and didn't drop it fast enough or in the way they expected?
to ask this question is not naive -- it's asking for accountability.
267
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We'd rather not moderate your comments, but off-topic, gratuitously inflammatory, threatening, or otherwise inappropriate remarks may be removed, and repeat offenders may be banned from commenting. We never censor comments based on ideology. Thanks to all who add to the conversation on Slog.
268
When an American refers to something as not having an ounce of truth to it, are the making a reference to the mass or the volume and do metric people say that there's not a gram or millilitre of truth in something?
269
Good thing for me that I get paid by the dead young Nazi. I'll be rich someday. Are there still Nazi-hunting positions being offered by anyone?
270
If they'd been re-enacting Charlie's Angels with pistols and bellbottoms, would this kid be alive today?
272
What if Charlie's Angels were really Nazis? That spirit crushing would bring America to its knees.
274
If Charlie's Angels came to the door with a gun, I would definitely obey them and lick their canned hams.
276
Lone Starr, I would not hesitate to tell them to take it all off. How would I get their goods if they had clothes on? Duh...
277
ok - so my stepson was in all this kids' classes 1st quarter freshman year. he says the kid was "kinda wierd" & "a nerd".
poor drunk kid.
poor drunk kid.
280
Did you really need a witness to tell you that he was weird and nerdy? Agreed it's too bad about him, but weird kids with no alcohol tolerance should be in better hands than his obviously shitty friends.
282
@277: You're right.
Who's going to be responsible for paying Miles's student loans? No one, his parents or the SPD?
Who's going to be responsible for paying Miles's student loans? No one, his parents or the SPD?
283
It'd be a nice gesture for Switzerland to make reparations and pay off his loans for all the blood money on their hands
285
You guys are sick- there is nothing funny about the greedy Swiss and the weak-ass Frenchies. They can suck my kosher nuts.
287
This comment is intended to compliment number 243: It's true that Miles would occasionally dawn uniforms bearing Nazi symbolism, but only when he was fully dressing up (for events or photo shoots.) Any German memorabilia incorporated into his day to day attire was always carefully censored - either offensive symbolism was covered or removed completely.
His interest in Nazi Germany was definitely a riddle to everyone who knew him, however, it was never expressed in such a way that suggested anything more than an academic/intellectual fascination. The few conversations that I had with him about the topic only revealed an encyclopedic knowledge of dates and facts... often bits of trivia about his most recent e-bay purchase. Having said that I want to clarify that said fascination was by no means limited to Nazi Germany or even WWII for that matter. For example, I remember him dressing up in full on Scottish garb complete with Kilt for NYE two years back.
The fact of the matter is, I never heard (nor have I heard of any instance) of Miles making a racist/antisemitic comment. In fact, he got on particularly well with one of our mutual Jewish friends.
Also, to 234: Miles would sometimes knowingly sacrifice accuracy to accommodate his limited wardrobe. He mentioned that officer pieces were becoming extremely expensive (I think considered his collection to be an investment in this way.)
His interest in Nazi Germany was definitely a riddle to everyone who knew him, however, it was never expressed in such a way that suggested anything more than an academic/intellectual fascination. The few conversations that I had with him about the topic only revealed an encyclopedic knowledge of dates and facts... often bits of trivia about his most recent e-bay purchase. Having said that I want to clarify that said fascination was by no means limited to Nazi Germany or even WWII for that matter. For example, I remember him dressing up in full on Scottish garb complete with Kilt for NYE two years back.
The fact of the matter is, I never heard (nor have I heard of any instance) of Miles making a racist/antisemitic comment. In fact, he got on particularly well with one of our mutual Jewish friends.
Also, to 234: Miles would sometimes knowingly sacrifice accuracy to accommodate his limited wardrobe. He mentioned that officer pieces were becoming extremely expensive (I think considered his collection to be an investment in this way.)
288
This slog is rather pathetic.... Miles actually enjoyed reading the Stranger every week on his lunch break. It is sad that so many people rather believe the cop's side of the story inside of the people who were actually there when it happened, or the people who really knew him. Miles was a cool, smart, funny guy and I feel lucky to have known him. He was an awesome co-worker who loved history. He shared his knowledge with us at work and kept us entertaining with his many stories.
He would have never intentionally pointed that gun at a cop. I also know for a fact that he was NOT give serveral warnings. When you have been drinking do you respond in just seconds to a question asked??
Miles was a great guy and did not represent Nazis in anyway. He bought almost all of his clothes and antique shops...including a vintage baseball uniform. That was his style. He shouldn't be remembered as a Nazi, because that is not what he was.
Miles had heart, style, and compassion. He should be remembered for the good person that he was.
He would have never intentionally pointed that gun at a cop. I also know for a fact that he was NOT give serveral warnings. When you have been drinking do you respond in just seconds to a question asked??
Miles was a great guy and did not represent Nazis in anyway. He bought almost all of his clothes and antique shops...including a vintage baseball uniform. That was his style. He shouldn't be remembered as a Nazi, because that is not what he was.
Miles had heart, style, and compassion. He should be remembered for the good person that he was.
290
I met Miles a few years ago when he was a summer exchange student in Sweden. He was a funny, smart, interesting fellow, and the group of UW undergrad classmates with whom he was traveling clearly admired him for his intellect and wit. This is a very unfortunate situation with a tragic ending for all involved. Any suggestion that his wide-ranging interest in history was rooted in neo-Nazism is way off the mark. He had a love of learning that UW would wish to see in all of its students.
291
sure Miles was kind of weird and a nerd but that's what made him so entertaining and awesome. He definitely wasn't a neo-nazi and wasn't dangerous by any means. This shouldn't be a forum to make fun of him because he was different, he is the kind of person we need more of in this world even if he did have his own problems. It wasn't a smart idea to drunkenly brandish a weapon but why do they use tazers on people screaming at political rallies but not on a college kid on New Years?
292
I had to stop reading these comments after about the 100th... I'm shocked at the lack of sensitivity and compassion expressed by all commenters who have chosen to rail on a dead man with nonsensical preoccupation towards "Nazi" garb, the science of the speed of bullets, and far-reaching assumptions of anti-semitism.
I didn't know Miles well, but there were some very real, obvious details of his character that weren't hard to comprehend: He had a superb intelligence. He possessed an unparalleled sense of humor. His attention to detail, be it in conversation or dress, was remarkable. His fashion choices stemmed from his fascination with history; never once did I consider that he had an association, affiliation, or sympathy for Nazism to any degree. He was a quirky college student with a passionate hobby.
I'm here in New York City; I don't know what happened that night. Any of you who weren't there, at that house, in that room, don't know what happened that night.
All that any of us can know is that a young, brilliant man is now dead, and that in itself is a tragedy.
Andrew, Spencer, friends of Miles: my deepest sympathies. I'm so sorry I can't be in Seattle right now.
Everyone else: cherish your friends. And please, for the sake of us compassionate people, think about what you say before you make assholish embarrassments of yourselves.
I didn't know Miles well, but there were some very real, obvious details of his character that weren't hard to comprehend: He had a superb intelligence. He possessed an unparalleled sense of humor. His attention to detail, be it in conversation or dress, was remarkable. His fashion choices stemmed from his fascination with history; never once did I consider that he had an association, affiliation, or sympathy for Nazism to any degree. He was a quirky college student with a passionate hobby.
I'm here in New York City; I don't know what happened that night. Any of you who weren't there, at that house, in that room, don't know what happened that night.
All that any of us can know is that a young, brilliant man is now dead, and that in itself is a tragedy.
Andrew, Spencer, friends of Miles: my deepest sympathies. I'm so sorry I can't be in Seattle right now.
Everyone else: cherish your friends. And please, for the sake of us compassionate people, think about what you say before you make assholish embarrassments of yourselves.
295
I'm amazed how quickly y'all notice when the cops kill a white kid AIMING A WEAPON AT THEM and y'all don't seem to give a shit when some Black or Latino kid gets killed for no apparent reason.
I'm sure this is a complete coincidence.
I'm sure this is a complete coincidence.
296
@295 you'll notice two things about slog, evident even in this monstrous post: 1) most people think this white kid deserved to get shot; and 2) in any thread about the police using aggression there are voices calling for accountability. in past posts, for example, more people were outraged than in this post.
what is interesting, i'll grant, is how many posts this thread has generated.
what might be of interest to you to note, is how many people think that because this kid is a racist, he deserved to get shot. (of course, he was neither kid nor racist.)
what is interesting, i'll grant, is how many posts this thread has generated.
what might be of interest to you to note, is how many people think that because this kid is a racist, he deserved to get shot. (of course, he was neither kid nor racist.)
297
LoL!
You idiot Christians should be glad that your herd has been thinned.
ANYONE who studies German history is a Nazi. My granpdarents taught me that all Germans are Christian idiots who deserve death. Period.
As a Jew I would be offended by anyone in a German costume, and wouldn't mind if they were shot.
As for the Univeristy. It had better get used to police shooting any students who don't act normal. War protestors and many pro-Islam or pro-German students are rabble rousers and Hamas sympathizers.
When Obama create his national para-military force, I am sure these troops will be allowed to shoot University students at will. Especially any that are against the war.
By the way, Israel has launched a ground war and needs our support! All Seattle Jews please get out and speak up for Israel and for the war. The Stranger is pro-War and pro-Israel. That is as it should be.
You idiot Christians should be glad that your herd has been thinned.
ANYONE who studies German history is a Nazi. My granpdarents taught me that all Germans are Christian idiots who deserve death. Period.
As a Jew I would be offended by anyone in a German costume, and wouldn't mind if they were shot.
As for the Univeristy. It had better get used to police shooting any students who don't act normal. War protestors and many pro-Islam or pro-German students are rabble rousers and Hamas sympathizers.
When Obama create his national para-military force, I am sure these troops will be allowed to shoot University students at will. Especially any that are against the war.
By the way, Israel has launched a ground war and needs our support! All Seattle Jews please get out and speak up for Israel and for the war. The Stranger is pro-War and pro-Israel. That is as it should be.
300
*pops another bottle champaign*
300 COMMENTS!!
is that a record for Slog?
Not even pit bulls or dogs in bars have seen this type of proliferation
300 COMMENTS!!
is that a record for Slog?
Not even pit bulls or dogs in bars have seen this type of proliferation
301
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We'd rather not moderate your comments, but off-topic, gratuitously inflammatory, threatening, or otherwise inappropriate remarks may be removed, and repeat offenders may be banned from commenting. We never censor comments based on ideology. Thanks to all who add to the conversation on Slog.
We'd rather not moderate your comments, but off-topic, gratuitously inflammatory, threatening, or otherwise inappropriate remarks may be removed, and repeat offenders may be banned from commenting. We never censor comments based on ideology. Thanks to all who add to the conversation on Slog.
302
DON'T CLICK ON THE LINKS IN 301 ABOVE UNLESS YOU WANT YOUR COMPUTER TO FREEZE UP AND YOUR BRAIN TO SUFFER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
304
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We'd rather not moderate your comments, but off-topic, gratuitously inflammatory, threatening, or otherwise inappropriate remarks may be removed, and repeat offenders may be banned from commenting. We never censor comments based on ideology. Thanks to all who add to the conversation on Slog.
305
Miles posed no danger to anyone when he celebrated the New Year by shooting blanks into the air, from his antique German rifle. A rapid escalation of events by police and inaction by Miles led to his death from multiple gunshot wounds.
It is truly a sad state of affairs when the police, who we employ to "protect and serve" us, have no other tools than lethal force to deal with this type of situation. This isn't the first time someone has been shot by police when there was no actual danger to anyone. The police need to have other methods to resolve these kinds of situations. The use of lethal force not only harms civilians but also destroys any good will towards law enforcement agencies. I wonder if Miles wasn't cornered into a difficult situation and the police merely acted in their own interests. I can't condone Miles' actions, but did the police do everything possible to avoid a lethal encounter? The use of lethal force should be the very last resort.
It is so easy to talk about gun rules - how you should never point a gun at someone or that you should always do what a police officer says. But, does everyone know those rules and do they know police protocols? Do they know
which actions, such as removing an object from a jacket pocket or glove compartment, could be misinterpreted as drawing a weapon? When the time comes, which of us would be able to recall that advice and make the right
decision under the extreme stress that they'll find themselves? I can't comprehend how frightening it must have been for Miles to have found himself surrounded by police, with all the lights, noise and demands. Police need empathy in a situation like this - to put themselves in the person's shoes and act beyond their immediate perceived fears. They need to understand that they are dealing with someone who is not trained as they are, and who may need more time, to talk or seek guidance.
When did we hand such power over to our police force? In one respect, the police were effectively able to judge Miles and sentence him to death, with no trial or jury. We have a legal system that gives people a right to explain their case and defend their actions. While we continue to allow lethal force as a legitimate police procedure, we allow the police to operate outside of the law.
I respect that police officers have a right to the best equipment, training and procedures to protect them in their line of duty. What I ask is that they be given the choice to defuse situations in a way that avoid unnecessary harm or death to civilians, that the current policy of lethal force should be reviewed and that change and education are needed to prevent more unnecessary deaths in the future.
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It is truly a sad state of affairs when the police, who we employ to "protect and serve" us, have no other tools than lethal force to deal with this type of situation. This isn't the first time someone has been shot by police when there was no actual danger to anyone. The police need to have other methods to resolve these kinds of situations. The use of lethal force not only harms civilians but also destroys any good will towards law enforcement agencies. I wonder if Miles wasn't cornered into a difficult situation and the police merely acted in their own interests. I can't condone Miles' actions, but did the police do everything possible to avoid a lethal encounter? The use of lethal force should be the very last resort.
It is so easy to talk about gun rules - how you should never point a gun at someone or that you should always do what a police officer says. But, does everyone know those rules and do they know police protocols? Do they know
which actions, such as removing an object from a jacket pocket or glove compartment, could be misinterpreted as drawing a weapon? When the time comes, which of us would be able to recall that advice and make the right
decision under the extreme stress that they'll find themselves? I can't comprehend how frightening it must have been for Miles to have found himself surrounded by police, with all the lights, noise and demands. Police need empathy in a situation like this - to put themselves in the person's shoes and act beyond their immediate perceived fears. They need to understand that they are dealing with someone who is not trained as they are, and who may need more time, to talk or seek guidance.
When did we hand such power over to our police force? In one respect, the police were effectively able to judge Miles and sentence him to death, with no trial or jury. We have a legal system that gives people a right to explain their case and defend their actions. While we continue to allow lethal force as a legitimate police procedure, we allow the police to operate outside of the law.
I respect that police officers have a right to the best equipment, training and procedures to protect them in their line of duty. What I ask is that they be given the choice to defuse situations in a way that avoid unnecessary harm or death to civilians, that the current policy of lethal force should be reviewed and that change and education are needed to prevent more unnecessary deaths in the future.
306
@296: just to make sure i put a finer point on my bitchtacular negroness, the kid didn't deserve to get shot, nor do i think he was a racist because he collected trappings of a racist era. i might be an angry black bitch, but that dog won't hunt. personally i kind of am happy people collect those trappings because someday they're all the evidence we're going to have of those eras. that and my sweet old white neighbor is one of those collectors and i always kind of worry about what people think of him.
he was white, and i think that contributes to it being noticed by the Stranger, but i don't think he deserved it. dumbassed behavior in light of knowing what assholes Seattle cops (in general, not all of them, duh) are? sure. however, shot? no. dead? hell no.
also everyone younger than me is "kid". it makes up for the fact i'm 31 and can't buy a lotto ticket without getting carded. that's another story, and i don't mean it to signal disrespect.
he was white, and i think that contributes to it being noticed by the Stranger, but i don't think he deserved it. dumbassed behavior in light of knowing what assholes Seattle cops (in general, not all of them, duh) are? sure. however, shot? no. dead? hell no.
also everyone younger than me is "kid". it makes up for the fact i'm 31 and can't buy a lotto ticket without getting carded. that's another story, and i don't mean it to signal disrespect.
307
Officers deal with the worst of the worst every single day. They don't have the luxury of "what-if" scenarios at 2 AM calls involving a guy shooting his gun...least of all if they're faced with someone pointing a rifle at them. Police have families to go home to, also.
If you don't want to get shot...don't play with guns in the city, and least of all don't point one at police.
If you don't want to get shot...don't play with guns in the city, and least of all don't point one at police.
308
Wow, Perseus (305) is living on another planet.
@307: It's not a matter of being liberal- 305's thinking is both utopian and delusional, though the former generally implies the latter...
@307: It's not a matter of being liberal- 305's thinking is both utopian and delusional, though the former generally implies the latter...
309
Never point even a toy gun at the cops, or really anyone that you don't know. But merely playing dressup should not be a death penalty offense, no more than Civil War reenactors who pick the Confederate side merit our disgust.
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