Thursday, January 1, 2009
City Seattle Police Shoot, Kill Man In Nazi Uniform
Posted by Jonah Spangenthal-Lee on Thu, Jan 1, 2009 at 1:24 PM
Two Seattle Police officers are on paid administrative leave after an early morning shooting in Ravenna.
Police were called to the 5200 block of 17th ave NE around 2am after neighbors reported two men firing off weapons.
When officers arrived at the scene, a man approached them wearing a Nazi uniform and carrying a rifle and bayonet.
The man pointed the gun at police and two officers opened fire. The man died at Harborview several hours later.
Police say they found a large collection of Nazi regalia inside the man's home.
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4
#3. you beat me to the post. The fact that this guy was living in Ravenna probably has the jewish community concerned there.
Speaking of Jewish communities, I had a dream last night that I was shopping at an all Kosher grocery store that was the size of a QFC.
Speaking of Jewish communities, I had a dream last night that I was shopping at an all Kosher grocery store that was the size of a QFC.
5
I wouldn't be surprised at all if the deceased turned out to be Jewish. It happens more than you'd think.
Personally, I always withhold judgment in a case like this until all the facts come out. Did this individual actually do anything that warranted being killed by the police? Sorry, but wearing an offensive uniform is not a capital crime.
Also, #1, you're certainly entitled to your opinions, whatever they may be, about gun ownership/gun control, but a rifle and bayonet is not "heavily armed".
Personally, I always withhold judgment in a case like this until all the facts come out. Did this individual actually do anything that warranted being killed by the police? Sorry, but wearing an offensive uniform is not a capital crime.
Also, #1, you're certainly entitled to your opinions, whatever they may be, about gun ownership/gun control, but a rifle and bayonet is not "heavily armed".
7
What happened to the other guy witnesses said was shooting a gun? And the other four in Nazi uniforms, where did they go? And is it just a coincidence that this was near where notorious Nazi/slumlord enforcer Keith Gilbert lived before he went to prison for selling machine guns? Didn't Gilbert have a posse of young dudes around him? There's a lot more to this story than one guy with a gun.
8
You know, I'm one of those bleeding-heart liberals who worries about things like excessive force and police accountability, and I gotta say: I'm pretty much okay with this.
9
What if the guy was just dressing up apart of some real-life simulation of WW2 and the cops freaked and shot at them?
The problem with plain clothes off-duty cops is no one knows you are a cop. There have been plenty of incidents where plain-clothes off-duty officers have pulled a pistol on someone and do not properly identify themselves as officers.
The problem with plain clothes off-duty cops is no one knows you are a cop. There have been plenty of incidents where plain-clothes off-duty officers have pulled a pistol on someone and do not properly identify themselves as officers.
10
I'm putting my money on mentally ill person committing suicide-by-cop in some sort of ill-conceived martyrdom/protest of Israel's bombing of Palestine.
@9, Where does it say they were plain-clothed or off-duty. If they were called to the scene, they probably weren't off-duty.
@9, Where does it say they were plain-clothed or off-duty. If they were called to the scene, they probably weren't off-duty.
11
@ 9 --
The problem with people who assume the cops were "plain clothes off-duty" and "freaked" is ... ?
Maybe the guy was just playing. Maybe he was shooting blanks. Maybe he was drunk as a skunk. Whatever. When somebody points a rifle at an officer dispatched to investigate a shooting, Darwin gets the last word.
Police, who were in uniform, "identified themselves as Seattle police very loudly and ordered him to drop the weapon several times," Kappel said. "The suspect failed to comply," and police continued to identify themselves and order him to drop the weapon, Kappel said.
When the suspect pointed the rifle at police, two uniformed officers "fired (several times) in defense ...
The problem with people who assume the cops were "plain clothes off-duty" and "freaked" is ... ?
Maybe the guy was just playing. Maybe he was shooting blanks. Maybe he was drunk as a skunk. Whatever. When somebody points a rifle at an officer dispatched to investigate a shooting, Darwin gets the last word.
12
Does Hugh Sisley own any properties that far south? That sounds like it could be one of his buddies.
16
Frohes Neues.
Was it expensive Nazi regalia or cheap Nazi regalia? I know a local plastic surgeon with odd tastes...
Was it expensive Nazi regalia or cheap Nazi regalia? I know a local plastic surgeon with odd tastes...
17
I knew this man and he was not mentally ill or unstable. I will say he was a stupid by playing with his gun and shooting BLANKS, but he did not deserve to die for this. This man was not a neo-nazi and the media should stop trying to make him out to be. People are so easily influenced by what the press has to say. Did it ever occur to you that the Police or the media change stories in order to favor them or make them more interesting?
This man will be greatly missed. RIP
This man will be greatly missed. RIP
18
Insightful comment, "greg wire". You nigger-haters always have the cleverest things to say, don't you? Buy why are you commenting here, when your mom is lying there waiting for you back in the pile of filthy rags you call your bed? Go to her, son; go to her.
19
@17
Go on! Go on! What really happened? Who was he and why did he do that? And what about the other four guys that the witnesses called in? Do you know them? Were you there?
Go on! Go on! What really happened? Who was he and why did he do that? And what about the other four guys that the witnesses called in? Do you know them? Were you there?
22
I'm sorry, but you just don't randomly dress up in a fucking nazi uniform and have a stable mental health at the same time.
I'm calling bullshit @17 already...
I'm calling bullshit @17 already...
23
@17 - You're telling me that a perfectly sane person, regardless of their clothing, who pointed a gun at a police officer didn't deserve to die. Ok, so maybe he didn't deserve it.
However, if you point a gun at a police officer, you'll get shot. They're not required to verify that the gun is functional/has live ammo before assuming that someone pointing a gun at them intends to shoot them.
However, if you point a gun at a police officer, you'll get shot. They're not required to verify that the gun is functional/has live ammo before assuming that someone pointing a gun at them intends to shoot them.
24
I'm a bleeding heart liberal too but I absolutely cannot argue against #23's facts.
"if you point a gun at a police officer, you'll get shot. They're not required to verify that the gun is functional/has live ammo before assuming that someone pointing a gun at them intends to shoot them."
Maybe someday we will get those crazy phasers, but for now, if you aim a weapon at a police officer either a) intend to die -or- b) intend to shoot and spend the rest of your life (DIE) in jail for doing that to a police officer -----if the details are as basic as in this case-----
"if you point a gun at a police officer, you'll get shot. They're not required to verify that the gun is functional/has live ammo before assuming that someone pointing a gun at them intends to shoot them."
Maybe someday we will get those crazy phasers, but for now, if you aim a weapon at a police officer either a) intend to die -or- b) intend to shoot and spend the rest of your life (DIE) in jail for doing that to a police officer -----if the details are as basic as in this case-----
25
He said he didn't deserve to die for being stupid and shooting blanks in an alley; "playing with his gun". And then he implied that the police are lying about how he was shot; i.e. perhaps that he did not point the gun at them. I don't know which is true but before you go off with a righteous screed, at least try to read.
26
I'm more inclined to believe that #17 is lying than that the police are. And I don't particularly like police.
28
Yes we should wait until the details come out to make any judgements. Until then all we have to comment on is the incomplete version of events presented by the media. With only that to go on I think anyone who is seen appearing to be firing a working firearm in the middle of the city should expect the neighbors to call police. And when the police arrive (presumably in uniform and identifying themselves as police) and repeatedly order you to put the gun down and put your hands up, and instead you point your gun at the police (whether on purpose or by accident) should expect to get gunned down by the police. I can't count how many reports I've read about incidents in this city where the police arrive and order someone to stand back, or put their hands up, or whatever, and instead the person argues with the police or raises their weapon or just plain doesn't comply with the police orders and as a result winds up being shot, killed, or beaten to the ground and handcuffed. I'm not saying the police are always right, what I'm saying is then and there is not the time to argue that point. Just comply and sort it out later with a lawyer and a lawsuit against the city if the police were out of line. Its this failure of common sense here that seems so bizarre. Sort of like when I saw the campaign here about "move right for sirens and lights" a couple years ago - because apparently people here don't have the common sense or the common courtesy to get out of the way of fire trucks and ambulances, and our tax dollars had to be spent on educating them. WTF?!?!
29
typical seattle. all the bicyclists, yuppies and soulless developmers are making it so that nazis can't fire guns off in their backyards anymore.
30
Funny how cops seem to have no sense of humor whatsoever when someone points a gun at them (real or not).
Darwin wins again.
Darwin wins again.
32
I am not lying about this man's character or about the situation at hand. He wasn't even wearing a Nazi uniform if you want to get into the details. He was wearing a uniform that happened to have a German flag on it. Does that make him a Nazi? He wasn't a Nazi and he didn't act like a Nazi either. The police are saying he resembled one in order to make their actions acceptable. They did not need to kill him for his poor judgement in holding a gun in his own front yard.
This man will be missed dearly.
This man will be missed dearly.
33
@32: Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that anybody deserves to die in such an instance. Simply that I don't blame the cops for shooting somebody who points a gun at them. The uniform is really icing on the cake, although I imagine presenting as a mentally unstable person just increases the likelihood of being shot. If this part of the story is inaccurate that should come out in any investigation (I'm assuming the police aren't going to posthumously dress a corpse up in a Nazi uniform.)
I'm sorry if this person was your friend.
I'm sorry if this person was your friend.
34
Fnarf dear, I know you live on the north end, but how can you say that Ravenna is "the closest thing Seattle has to a Jewish neighborhood"? Have you never heard of Seward Park? You should visit sometime: Lovely homes, charming people, and oodles of synagogues. really quite nice.
35
if it was an old german military jacket... that does not make one a nazi.
the funny thing is how one bit of information can completely taint our opinion. in many cases, people here are at least skeptical of the police report when the office says they had no other choice but to fire. such as the many no-knock drug raid examples.
but we all think the type of person who would dress like a nazi is the of person who would point a gun at the police.
of course, if they weren't really a nazi, and where just wearing a german military jacket -- rather popular items really -- then the entire story must be viewed through a different lens.
being a police office is tough. i would love there to be an alternative -- but i understand why they are trained to shoot to kill when someone points a gun at them. if that's what happened here, then it is a sad, but ultimately unavoidable outcome.
but if that's not what happened here -- and we our system needs to verify these matters -- then the outcome is a breach of justice.
the funny thing is how one bit of information can completely taint our opinion. in many cases, people here are at least skeptical of the police report when the office says they had no other choice but to fire. such as the many no-knock drug raid examples.
but we all think the type of person who would dress like a nazi is the of person who would point a gun at the police.
of course, if they weren't really a nazi, and where just wearing a german military jacket -- rather popular items really -- then the entire story must be viewed through a different lens.
being a police office is tough. i would love there to be an alternative -- but i understand why they are trained to shoot to kill when someone points a gun at them. if that's what happened here, then it is a sad, but ultimately unavoidable outcome.
but if that's not what happened here -- and we our system needs to verify these matters -- then the outcome is a breach of justice.
38
I just realized I know this man as well. He is definately NOT a neo-nazi to all the gossipers. A very likeable guy and highly educated. This is quite an unfortunate turn of events.
39
@5- He wasn't shot for wearing a Nazi uniform, he was shot because he pointed a gun at the police. To protect their own safety, police always shoot anyone who points a gun at them. Always.
40
They did not need to kill him for his poor judgement in holding a gun in his own front yard.
If we're to believe the police, the guy wasn't just "holding a gun" -- he was pointing a gun at the police. Don't you think there's a difference there?
If we're to believe the police, the guy wasn't just "holding a gun" -- he was pointing a gun at the police. Don't you think there's a difference there?
41
now for something more important...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFpbZ-aLD…
NIST report on 9/11 has been debunked and an investigation coming soon into the engineers and scientists whose names are included on it. WTC evacuated numerous times the week before 9/11/01 for "electrical work"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFpbZ-aLD…
NIST report on 9/11 has been debunked and an investigation coming soon into the engineers and scientists whose names are included on it. WTC evacuated numerous times the week before 9/11/01 for "electrical work"
42
Yes, Catalina, I've heard of Seward Park, and I know that's the other contender for "closest thing to a Jewish neighborhood" in Seattle. But only someone who's never lived in a city with a lot of Jews would say Seward Park (or Ravenna) has "oodles" of synagogues. Seattle is one of the least Jewish big cities in America. It's also one of the least Italian, and least black, and least Mexican. All four of these facts are cultural tragedies, notwithstanding the many charms of Norwegians and Anglos.
But it makes no matter mind because the guy didn't live in Ravenna; he lived near Frat Row.
But it makes no matter mind because the guy didn't live in Ravenna; he lived near Frat Row.
43
Fnarf dear, I fear I must protest; Seattle simply isn't an old enough city to have your apparently MGM-esque vision of what a "Jewish" neighborhood should be. True, there are no pushcarts, no penchant for Yiddish (that I've ever noticed, at least), no lower eastside coldwater flats, but Seward Park and Mercer Islands are the only places in the Northwest, and one of the very few places in the west that have Eruv's. That's pretty Jewish.
45
@ 40 This man was caught off guard and told to put the weapon down. Within seconds the police decided to unload on him. He wasn't even given time to think about the situation he was in until it was too late. The police saw this man as a threat and therefore unleashed on him. Why they couldn't first do a warning shot or maybe even shoot him is the leg, we will never know. I didn't know it was a crime to dress in civil war attire and this was this man's choice in hobbies. He was a good person and would of never hurt a fly. He could barely open a jar of sauerkraut! Let it be know that this man meant no harm to anyone. The gun was NOT loaded, it had blanks in it and that is a FACT. The police have messed up and that should be know. They executed my friend today and have filled a lot of people's hearts with sorrow.
46
How are the police supposed to know the gun is filled with blanks? If police are pointing their guns at you, you better damn well drop whatever weapon you are holding, whether it is loaded or not. No time to fire "warning shots" when your life, and the lives of others, might be danger.
47
@ 46 Would you be able to comprehend what was happening in 3 seconds? He should have not been holding the gun (please note that I said holding the gun, not pointing it at an officer), but he was not given enough time to drop the weapon.
Only an idiot truly believes everything they read. Also I bet you anything that they will never reveal that the gun only had blanks in it. The Police are trying to save face with this story and the media is only helping. You can choose to believe what the news is telling you, but be forewarned that it is NOT the truth.
Only an idiot truly believes everything they read. Also I bet you anything that they will never reveal that the gun only had blanks in it. The Police are trying to save face with this story and the media is only helping. You can choose to believe what the news is telling you, but be forewarned that it is NOT the truth.
48
There are fewer Jews in the state of Washington than in just about any square mile in, say, LA. Or even SF. I'm not talking about coldwater flats, I'm talking about Jewish neighborhoods. Like the ones we don't have. I'm not sure what the criteria is, precisely; it's probably expressible in delis per block. White folks always overestimate the numbers of minorities in their midst; "I saw a black guy" becomes "there are lots of blacks in my neighborhood". But the numbers don't lie.
It's a shame the cops don't have a ten-page questionnaire they can hand out to loons waving guns on the street, with questions like "are you a harmless nut, or an actual gunman?", "hey, are those blanks you're shooting, or what?" and "would you like to have a free shot at us before we blow you to Kingdom Come, or can we get this over with?"
Face it: if you're pointing a gun at cops, or even just kinda waving it around in the general direction of cops, they're going to kill you first. Shooting a nut with a gun in the leg first is a good way to get shot and killed yourself. So is giving the gunman "time to think about the situation". If your sweet harmless buddy wanted to see the rest of 2009, he SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN OUTSIDE IN THE CITY HOLDING A RIFLE. Cops aren't psychic.
It's a shame the cops don't have a ten-page questionnaire they can hand out to loons waving guns on the street, with questions like "are you a harmless nut, or an actual gunman?", "hey, are those blanks you're shooting, or what?" and "would you like to have a free shot at us before we blow you to Kingdom Come, or can we get this over with?"
Face it: if you're pointing a gun at cops, or even just kinda waving it around in the general direction of cops, they're going to kill you first. Shooting a nut with a gun in the leg first is a good way to get shot and killed yourself. So is giving the gunman "time to think about the situation". If your sweet harmless buddy wanted to see the rest of 2009, he SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN OUTSIDE IN THE CITY HOLDING A RIFLE. Cops aren't psychic.
49
It does not matter if the gun had blanks in it or not. If you are a police officer and someone has a gun in their hands, I'm pretty sure they assume its loaded and has real bullets. To not assume that is to put your own life at risk.
They're not going to pleasantly ask, "Hey Sir, can we see that fancy rifle you're holding there to check the bullets in it to see if their blanks or not"??
I could care less if the guy was wearing a nazi uniform or not, but IF he was pointing the gun at police, than he's going to get shot.
They're not going to pleasantly ask, "Hey Sir, can we see that fancy rifle you're holding there to check the bullets in it to see if their blanks or not"??
I could care less if the guy was wearing a nazi uniform or not, but IF he was pointing the gun at police, than he's going to get shot.
52
I love the comment at 45. The cops should have shot him in the leg or fired a warning shot. They should have known there were blanks and not live rounds in the gun. In other words, they should be superhuman mind readers with out of this world aim.
When you find a brain, please let us know. Until then, I'll make it damned simple for you: when you point a gun at the cops, you should expect to get killed.
When you find a brain, please let us know. Until then, I'll make it damned simple for you: when you point a gun at the cops, you should expect to get killed.
53
I don't think it is appropriate to release his name or identity unless his family is ok with it. Please respect his families wishes and refrain from posting such information until the time is right.
54
@ 52 Just because the cops said that he POINTED the gun at them does not make it true. As I said before, don't believe everything you read unless you plan on being a dumbass for the rest of your life. My friend was there with him when it happened and the way the Police are telling the story is not true. Just because Police have authority, does not mean they are always telling the truth. They are trying to save face and after reading many of your comments I see that they are succeeding. Don't make stupid comments unless you know the facts. Reading the paper is not going to give you the truth.
55
the cops can't fire warning shots, or shoot for the leg. those strategies are not effective.
but this was a college student studying german history playing with friends.
perhaps they could have given a little more time or warning before shooting. not a form -- fnarf. no one's is suggesting that. but is anyone happy with this outcome? people shouldn't get shot for playing with guns as toys or wearing military uniforms. do we really want mistakes like this to happen so easily.
everyone had a problem with the nazi uniform. but it looks like he wasn't a nazi. now do you see that maybe the police officers' version of events may be questionable?
but this was a college student studying german history playing with friends.
perhaps they could have given a little more time or warning before shooting. not a form -- fnarf. no one's is suggesting that. but is anyone happy with this outcome? people shouldn't get shot for playing with guns as toys or wearing military uniforms. do we really want mistakes like this to happen so easily.
everyone had a problem with the nazi uniform. but it looks like he wasn't a nazi. now do you see that maybe the police officers' version of events may be questionable?
56
One of the problems is that people don't trust the police anymore. I have family that work for the police department and I don't want any of them to wait until they ask someone, "Are you drunk and just kidding around" or "Does that thing have live ammunition?" When you are the police you tend to get pretty sick of people shooting at you. Anyone, including career criminals will tell you, "They go to the shooting range, trying to shoot it out with the police is a no win situation unless you are a war weary sniper or something." No matter who you are, if you are carrying a gun and someone aims a gun at you, are you going to hesitate to see if he is serious? Hell no, a private citizen wouldn't even identify himself, just shoot.
57
After thinking about everything that was posted here I decided to add this. If this guy was a 17 year old, you can say he was too young to know better. If he was not sober, so be it. When the police aim a gun at you and tell you to drop it, you would either shit yourself and drop it or try to defy them. Why would a 17 year old with blanks try to shoot it out with the police if they identified themselves. Even if they didn't, a seventeen year old wouldn't hold a gun he knew had blanks in it at someone aiming pistols at him if he wasn't completely stupid. It doesn't make sense.
58
I am in no way posting this comment to discredit the SPD or try to defend the man who was shot. I am just going to try to post up a few unbiased facts about the man who was shot.
I have known the man who was shot since junior high. Yes, he was eccentric but he was not a nazi, neo nazi and in no way shape or form a racist. I did not get to know him until our senior year and I will not lie, it was easy to make a snap decison and judge Miles, but when you actually got to know him you saw that he was a very smart and very kind person. We were not good friends, more like buddies if anything. We just talked at school and whatnot.
Police officers are trained to trust no one in this day and age. This makes them seem arrogant, they act like everyone is a felon; but they have families to go home to at night. Having that attitude is a necessary evil for them to stay safe.
Plain and simple if Miles was armed and pointing a rifle at them (I dont know the exact circumstances obviously) I would assume you dont have much time to try to call the cops bluff when the firearm you are holding is already pointed towards them.
Like I said before, I am not taking any sides. Miles was a good person and he will be sorely missed by many. People who did not know him should not pop off and make false comments.
I have known the man who was shot since junior high. Yes, he was eccentric but he was not a nazi, neo nazi and in no way shape or form a racist. I did not get to know him until our senior year and I will not lie, it was easy to make a snap decison and judge Miles, but when you actually got to know him you saw that he was a very smart and very kind person. We were not good friends, more like buddies if anything. We just talked at school and whatnot.
Police officers are trained to trust no one in this day and age. This makes them seem arrogant, they act like everyone is a felon; but they have families to go home to at night. Having that attitude is a necessary evil for them to stay safe.
Plain and simple if Miles was armed and pointing a rifle at them (I dont know the exact circumstances obviously) I would assume you dont have much time to try to call the cops bluff when the firearm you are holding is already pointed towards them.
Like I said before, I am not taking any sides. Miles was a good person and he will be sorely missed by many. People who did not know him should not pop off and make false comments.
59
You could be wearing a Barney the Purple Dinosaur suit.
If you point a weapon at the police -
You are going to get shot.
You could be wearing a Barney the Purple Dinosaur suit.
If you point a weapon at the police -
You are going to get shot.
61
As someone who actually knew this kid, he was not a neo-nazi. Just someone who was fascinated by an era. And made some monumentally bad decisions like firing blanks in his backyard. Granted: completely idiotic, but he was NOT a threat. Seattle police are just fucking gun happy. And if you're gonna shoot, you'd better kill someone so they can't testify against you, right?
62
As one fairly new to Seattle, I am amazed that your gun-happy police force would - out of a population in the millions - be able to find the ONE person against which they had a vendetta, the one solitary person whom the SPD wanted to kill.
I mean - it's obvious that the officers set out on patrol last night with the intent to kill this one particular chap.
Right?
I mean - it's obvious that the officers set out on patrol last night with the intent to kill this one particular chap.
Right?
63
Wowww #62.
Keep telling yourself that.
Are you one of this little Nazi's friends he was playing with?
Keep telling yourself that.
Are you one of this little Nazi's friends he was playing with?
64
I'm sorry your friend was shot and killed today. That's a tragedy, it sounds like he didn't deserve to die like that. You have my sympathies. I'm sorry you're hurting. I'm not sure that posting on a blog - especially one as snarky as Slog - is a great idea when the pain is that fresh. However, what was he thinking shooting blanks in his yard in the middle of the night? That's not a quiet activity. Did any of his friends tell him that was a dumb idea? Imagine what little information the police had: a call to 911 from about someone shooting a rifle in their yard on new years eve. They may had no more information than that and would have had to question the mental state of anyone engaged in that activity: was he drunk, was he high, was he on angel dust, was he having a psychotic break? Was he even capable of responding rationally?Was he a drunk enraged ex-husband attempting to kill his ex-wife by going to her house and shooting.her through her bedroom window? Was this someone about to go on a shooting rampage like the virginia tech shootings? Ther's no way the police who arrived on the scene would have anyway of knowing the answer to all those questions, but I bet all those questions went through their mind as they drove to the scene. The rules that govern what police can and shouldn't do and what they must do as part of their duties are very different than you would think. Don't ever assume you are having a conversation with a police officer because you are not. You are complying with their order or you are not. No in between. And no, police have no obligation to explain that to you. The police have no need to make something up, they will have no need to 'supress' the fact that it turned out he was shooting blanks. Because (based on what little available info we have right now) the police did nothing wrong. Your friend's family can bring a wrongful death lawsuit if they want, but they will lose (again based on available info right now). Is this a terribly unfortunate tragedy? Absolutely. But then maybe this wouldn't have happened if this fellow and his friends hadn't made the unfortunate choice to go fire what appeared to be a lethal weapon in the middle of the night in the middle of an urban neighborhood.
More...
67
64 most certainly does NOT have it.
it was NEW YEARS EVE.
it would have been another thing altogether had it been a sunday afternoon, had it been at a school, had it been a time and place where drunken revelry isnt commonplace.
and you are right...the lawsuit will not be successful. but NOT because the police are in the right. its because these lawsuits just are rarely ever successful at showing the police at fault. you cant win these things ever. cops take care of their own.
a drunk kid, playing with a toy gun, reflexes and reaction times slowed, unable to comprehend what is happening and unable to follow orders to the satisfaction of jittery cops. thats the best case scenario here. the worst? that he wasnt even slightly pointing the weapon at officers, didnt charge...just got shot by a nervous cop. period. and that one shot sparked the rest from other officers.
the kid was a nerd. but with many friends. his isnt the loners profile of the columbine idiots. or the guy from montana that shot up that party before killing himself in capital hill a couple years ago.
he was silly, but had every intention of just partying in his "re-enactment" style on NEW YEARS EVE, in a neighborhood that didnt like celebratory explosions. the neighbors overreacted when calling the cops (no-ones talking about THEIR fault in any of this), who in turn completely overreacted.
it was NEW YEARS EVE.
it would have been another thing altogether had it been a sunday afternoon, had it been at a school, had it been a time and place where drunken revelry isnt commonplace.
and you are right...the lawsuit will not be successful. but NOT because the police are in the right. its because these lawsuits just are rarely ever successful at showing the police at fault. you cant win these things ever. cops take care of their own.
a drunk kid, playing with a toy gun, reflexes and reaction times slowed, unable to comprehend what is happening and unable to follow orders to the satisfaction of jittery cops. thats the best case scenario here. the worst? that he wasnt even slightly pointing the weapon at officers, didnt charge...just got shot by a nervous cop. period. and that one shot sparked the rest from other officers.
the kid was a nerd. but with many friends. his isnt the loners profile of the columbine idiots. or the guy from montana that shot up that party before killing himself in capital hill a couple years ago.
he was silly, but had every intention of just partying in his "re-enactment" style on NEW YEARS EVE, in a neighborhood that didnt like celebratory explosions. the neighbors overreacted when calling the cops (no-ones talking about THEIR fault in any of this), who in turn completely overreacted.
69
67 you can talk about New Years Eve all that you WANT. Take a look at this kid's pictures.
He dressed like this 7 days a week.
He dressed like this 7 days a week.
70
WHAT HE WAS WEARING WAS NOT A NAZI UNIFORM!
JEsus!
the cops just said it was. thats all we have.
and if you look at his myspace page you wont find a single nazi uniform in the DOZENS of photos of him in different world war 2 outfits.
THE COPS FUCKED UP.
and they know that the more they push this "nazi" angle the less people in this city are gonna question their fuck up.
they killed a kid.
JEsus!
the cops just said it was. thats all we have.
and if you look at his myspace page you wont find a single nazi uniform in the DOZENS of photos of him in different world war 2 outfits.
THE COPS FUCKED UP.
and they know that the more they push this "nazi" angle the less people in this city are gonna question their fuck up.
they killed a kid.
71
@69
i am looking. and he dressed 7 days a week in nerdy WW2 uniforms. and if i saw him i wouldnt immediately think he was a threat. i would think he's a harmless nerd.
i'm with 70.
the cops are pushing this nazi angle to make people like you, who i assume dont like it when cops overreact and kill kids, think he deserved it.
i am looking. and he dressed 7 days a week in nerdy WW2 uniforms. and if i saw him i wouldnt immediately think he was a threat. i would think he's a harmless nerd.
i'm with 70.
the cops are pushing this nazi angle to make people like you, who i assume dont like it when cops overreact and kill kids, think he deserved it.
72
Okay, here is the deal:
The police will shoot at someone if they point a gun at them. It's how they've been trained. They can't let themselves get shot down and thus allow the armed person to get away and endanger other citizens who may be totally unarmed and unable to protect themselves. If they didn't shoot this guy and this guy went off to kill some family, what would people say then? They'd say, "wtf was that cop thinking! he/she shouldn't have let him get away!" Basically, if a person has the guts to point a gun at a trained & armed official, then it wouldn't take much courage for them to point it in the direction of random citizens.
The police will shoot at someone if they point a gun at them. It's how they've been trained. They can't let themselves get shot down and thus allow the armed person to get away and endanger other citizens who may be totally unarmed and unable to protect themselves. If they didn't shoot this guy and this guy went off to kill some family, what would people say then? They'd say, "wtf was that cop thinking! he/she shouldn't have let him get away!" Basically, if a person has the guts to point a gun at a trained & armed official, then it wouldn't take much courage for them to point it in the direction of random citizens.
73
Comment 1:
One less heavily armed Neo-Nazi. 2009 is already looking up!
The facts:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/3944…
Hattie Taylor, a 20-year-old UW student at whose sorority house the deceased man worked, described him as a kind, if likably odd, young man.
"He wasn't a Nazi," Taylor said. "He was just fascinated with the past. ... He liked to dress up and have fun."
Taylor and others said he often showed up to work at Red Mill wearing antique clothing -- he recently went to work in a Union Civil War uniform -- and collected historical memorabilia. During his first day of work at Taylor's sorority, she said, he arrived wearing a military waistcoat decorated with military ribbons hoping to impress the girls there.
The morning of the shooting, the man had been firing blanks to celebrate the new year, Taylor said. It was a contention held by many of the 18 Red Mill employees gathered at the restaurant, who'd been told so by another co-worker who was at the deceased man's apartment when he was killed.
They also disputed police claims that the man pointed the gun at officers and criticized officers for firing on the man.
One less heavily armed Neo-Nazi. 2009 is already looking up!
The facts:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/3944…
Hattie Taylor, a 20-year-old UW student at whose sorority house the deceased man worked, described him as a kind, if likably odd, young man.
"He wasn't a Nazi," Taylor said. "He was just fascinated with the past. ... He liked to dress up and have fun."
Taylor and others said he often showed up to work at Red Mill wearing antique clothing -- he recently went to work in a Union Civil War uniform -- and collected historical memorabilia. During his first day of work at Taylor's sorority, she said, he arrived wearing a military waistcoat decorated with military ribbons hoping to impress the girls there.
The morning of the shooting, the man had been firing blanks to celebrate the new year, Taylor said. It was a contention held by many of the 18 Red Mill employees gathered at the restaurant, who'd been told so by another co-worker who was at the deceased man's apartment when he was killed.
They also disputed police claims that the man pointed the gun at officers and criticized officers for firing on the man.
74
as long as he actually trained the gun on the cops. which is the question.
i'm not a gun nut, or a nazi supporter. i just know of way too many instances where cops have fired on people brandishing everything from hairbrushes to cell phones. and the defense is always what you just wrote.
of course i agree that if someone is pointing a gun at a cop that they should expect death.
i am just saying that in this particular instance that theres alot of questions. and the fact that he was dressed in an old german soldiers outfit is allowing the cops to go unquestioned.
it is my belief that they should be questioned, investigated, and held accountable for their actions.
i'm not a gun nut, or a nazi supporter. i just know of way too many instances where cops have fired on people brandishing everything from hairbrushes to cell phones. and the defense is always what you just wrote.
of course i agree that if someone is pointing a gun at a cop that they should expect death.
i am just saying that in this particular instance that theres alot of questions. and the fact that he was dressed in an old german soldiers outfit is allowing the cops to go unquestioned.
it is my belief that they should be questioned, investigated, and held accountable for their actions.
76
The cops said they found nazi regalia in his apartment, what's that all about?
I feel badly for asserting the nazi thing.
I feel badly for asserting the nazi thing.
77
dude was obsessed with old war stuff. reenactments, the whole nine....history buff times a zillion. among his collection was probably, no doubt, the odd german WW2 artifact. i knew him. he was kind of a geek, but definitely not unhinged enough to go on a shooting spree, and he wasnt a nazi. he wanted to live in a different era.
79
Cops did it on purpose.
I mean - no excuse for their over-reaction. NO law enforcement type has EVER been killed in the Pac Norwest. Right?
So get this: cops interrupt the doughnut break and go out of their way to find this chap. He was just minding his own business - did nothing to attract attention. It's common practice in Seattle to shoot rounds off. Right?
And everyone should have known these were blanks. Especially the neighbors. Right?
And SPD knew beforehand (omniscience, see) that this chap was a benign, harmless, oddster. A "good guy" with a weapon that was loaded with blanks and that had attached a harmless (probably rubber) bayonet. Should have (magically) known. Right?
And the police can foretell the future. They know everything, and what is the actual situation, and what will happen next. Right?
And the cops (and the press) know after going through the effort and out of their way to accomplish this task, that they have to lie about it afterwards. Right?
So, I rage on the cops. They alone are totally responsible for what happened to this victim. Rage rage rage.
I mean - no excuse for their over-reaction. NO law enforcement type has EVER been killed in the Pac Norwest. Right?
So get this: cops interrupt the doughnut break and go out of their way to find this chap. He was just minding his own business - did nothing to attract attention. It's common practice in Seattle to shoot rounds off. Right?
And everyone should have known these were blanks. Especially the neighbors. Right?
And SPD knew beforehand (omniscience, see) that this chap was a benign, harmless, oddster. A "good guy" with a weapon that was loaded with blanks and that had attached a harmless (probably rubber) bayonet. Should have (magically) known. Right?
And the police can foretell the future. They know everything, and what is the actual situation, and what will happen next. Right?
And the cops (and the press) know after going through the effort and out of their way to accomplish this task, that they have to lie about it afterwards. Right?
So, I rage on the cops. They alone are totally responsible for what happened to this victim. Rage rage rage.
80
t-prop:
nice story. if you think that's what people here are saying you are more of an idiot than then the young man who was just shot.
police need to give someone == ANYONE == enough time to drop their weapon. of course they didn't intentionally seeking him out to kill him. of course their job is a dangerous one. but that risk is unavoidable. people still deserve a change to drop the gun.
everyone here at first thought the police were right because the guy was a nazi -- well, he wasn't. he wasn't even in nazi attire. the police lied -- or at best -- made a mistake about that.
so, what we know is that the police make mistakes. they make mistakes. and when they can make mistakes that cost a young man his life, well, there is something wrong.
you wouldn't want grumpy neighbors calling the police on your, your kids, or your friends who were celebrating new year's eve in a harmless way -- to have the police shoot a loved one of yours. that is not the sort of policing we need.
nice story. if you think that's what people here are saying you are more of an idiot than then the young man who was just shot.
police need to give someone == ANYONE == enough time to drop their weapon. of course they didn't intentionally seeking him out to kill him. of course their job is a dangerous one. but that risk is unavoidable. people still deserve a change to drop the gun.
everyone here at first thought the police were right because the guy was a nazi -- well, he wasn't. he wasn't even in nazi attire. the police lied -- or at best -- made a mistake about that.
so, what we know is that the police make mistakes. they make mistakes. and when they can make mistakes that cost a young man his life, well, there is something wrong.
you wouldn't want grumpy neighbors calling the police on your, your kids, or your friends who were celebrating new year's eve in a harmless way -- to have the police shoot a loved one of yours. that is not the sort of policing we need.
81
@80,
Thanks, but - nothing original in my post, really.
I simply bring into awareness/cognition the recurrent assumptions underpinning many previous posts.
Thanks, but - nothing original in my post, really.
I simply bring into awareness/cognition the recurrent assumptions underpinning many previous posts.
83
I met Miles my freshmen year and had many classes with him. While he loved his hobbies and loved to show them in the way he dressed we was one of the most mild mannered and soft spoken men I have ever known. Having worked with him on several occasions I can honestly say he was gentle, shy, and always dedicated to portraying whatever character he was representing (either side in WWII of which he did both often) with complete accuracy and conviction. I am offended to no end that people could see students exploring their love for the past as a reason he deserved to be killed. Anyone who thinks that he got what he had coming just because he happened to have been chosen to play the German side that day should be ashamed of themselves. While he may have been slow in putting down his gun, and I do not pretend to know the details of this, I think it a travesty that a police officer was quicker to shoot just because of the costume a student was wearing. It is a great loss whenever the world looses someone with as great conviction and creative passion to explore the past in the way that Miles did. I have always supported the police but today I am heartily ashamed that we live in a society that could condone such an act.
84
If I saw a white man in a Nazi uniform and a gun I would not think "Oh look- a history buff!". I'd think nut job about to engage in a shooting spree.
85
Statistically speaking, police are more likely to die in a car accident then by being shot, whether intentionally or accidentally. In 2008, 38 (36 intentional, 2 accidental) law enforcement officers (police, sheriff and highway patrol) died by gunfire in the United States, while 39 died in automobile accidents (http://www.odmp.org/year.php?year=2008).
According to 2005 FBI statistics there were 969,070 full-time police enforcement officers employed, meaning that there is roughly a .00004 % chance of an officer being shot to death on duty.
I'm in favor of police officers assisting in maintaining peace, especially when I call them, however, it seems that the degree and methods use don't always match the situation. Of course, none of these details, aside from the fatal shooting, can actually be counted on, so I'll hold judgement against either the student or police.
Regarding the "Nazi regalia" being found in the house, this just seems ridiculous to assume that the man aspires to be a Nazi. If I am wearing "Seattle Seahawks regalia" around town I doubt that anyone really believes that I am a Seahawk football player. If the man was a history buff, I would think that he would also have British, Russian, American, Japanese and even Italian "regalia".
Anyway, he is dead for making a mistake. The real question is whether his mistake justifies his death.
According to 2005 FBI statistics there were 969,070 full-time police enforcement officers employed, meaning that there is roughly a .00004 % chance of an officer being shot to death on duty.
I'm in favor of police officers assisting in maintaining peace, especially when I call them, however, it seems that the degree and methods use don't always match the situation. Of course, none of these details, aside from the fatal shooting, can actually be counted on, so I'll hold judgement against either the student or police.
Regarding the "Nazi regalia" being found in the house, this just seems ridiculous to assume that the man aspires to be a Nazi. If I am wearing "Seattle Seahawks regalia" around town I doubt that anyone really believes that I am a Seahawk football player. If the man was a history buff, I would think that he would also have British, Russian, American, Japanese and even Italian "regalia".
Anyway, he is dead for making a mistake. The real question is whether his mistake justifies his death.
86
I wonder where on his body was he shot. WHY didnt he just drop the rifle??? Why didnt the cops shoot him in a nonvital area? Like the side of his midsection or in the kneecap to incapacitate him....:-/
87
FYI: According to a Spring 2006 report by the Seattle Police Office of Professional Accountability, there were 165 complaints filed against the SPD for use of excessive force. The report concludes that 14% (23) of the complaints were sustained (ruled in favor of the complaint filer). The report also states:
"that in 2004 and 2005, SPD officers responded to an average of 251,481 dispatched calls, made an average of 168,764 on-view citizen stops or contacts, and arrested about 50,806 people in the two-year period. This translates to a use of force rate of just 0.157% for 2004 and 0.153% for 2005 relative to total public contacts."
"that in 2004 and 2005, SPD officers responded to an average of 251,481 dispatched calls, made an average of 168,764 on-view citizen stops or contacts, and arrested about 50,806 people in the two-year period. This translates to a use of force rate of just 0.157% for 2004 and 0.153% for 2005 relative to total public contacts."
88
Here is what Greek citizens did recently when a police officer shot and killed a 15-year-old, and in this situation, the group of youths were throwing firebombs at police.
http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2008/12…
This could never happen here, of course...
http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2008/12…
This could never happen here, of course...
90
@83,
I think the problem that upset the police was not the uniform or exploring his love for the past, but rather the (alleged) weapon, combined with reports of rounds being fired.
Perhaps the police would be quicker to shoot at someone in German military regalia than one attired in a Barney the Purple Dinosaur or Santa suit, but - unfortunately - there are no controlled studies to support the assumption.
I think the problem that upset the police was not the uniform or exploring his love for the past, but rather the (alleged) weapon, combined with reports of rounds being fired.
Perhaps the police would be quicker to shoot at someone in German military regalia than one attired in a Barney the Purple Dinosaur or Santa suit, but - unfortunately - there are no controlled studies to support the assumption.
91
Darwin, party of one. Your table is ready.
Read more about this mess here:
http://lagniappeslair.blogspot.com
Read more about this mess here:
http://lagniappeslair.blogspot.com
92
LoL!
As a Jew I am glad the police killed this Christian idiot! The Univeristy district is a lot safer. It is creep he was into military uniforms.
Personally I like to dress in a Japanese Schoolgirl outfit and have my girlfriend do me with a dildo shouting Keanu, Keanu Baby!. That is a perfectly normal and healthy fantasy.
Anyone who wears any kind of German clothes, even to study history in, is simply a sick Christian idiot who is better off dead. The Stranger is pro-Jewish and pro-Israel and has always been against Christians.
So if you are pro-German, pro-Christian please read another Seattle paper.
As a Jew I am glad the police killed this Christian idiot! The Univeristy district is a lot safer. It is creep he was into military uniforms.
Personally I like to dress in a Japanese Schoolgirl outfit and have my girlfriend do me with a dildo shouting Keanu, Keanu Baby!. That is a perfectly normal and healthy fantasy.
Anyone who wears any kind of German clothes, even to study history in, is simply a sick Christian idiot who is better off dead. The Stranger is pro-Jewish and pro-Israel and has always been against Christians.
So if you are pro-German, pro-Christian please read another Seattle paper.
94
You guys are idiots. It doesn't matter if the guy was wearing a WWII Nazi uniform or a large adult diaper. If you aim a gun, fake or real, at a cop, at night, on any night, of any week, ever, YOU SHOULD EXPECT TO BE SHOT DEAD.
Cops in any city, anywhere in the world should deal with situations like this in just this way. They should not be required to wait until being fired upon.
Cops in any city, anywhere in the world should deal with situations like this in just this way. They should not be required to wait until being fired upon.
95
Miles was not a Nazi. How non-Nazi of all of you to approve when someone is killed because he doesn't seem to have the same views as you!
96
So...
Where were his "friends?"
Why did they not accompany him outdoors to help him?
- tell the cops "it's only blanks"
- encourage Miles to drop the weapon??
They abandoned him.
Some "friends."
They are just as much to blame for this tragedy.
Where were his "friends?"
Why did they not accompany him outdoors to help him?
- tell the cops "it's only blanks"
- encourage Miles to drop the weapon??
They abandoned him.
Some "friends."
They are just as much to blame for this tragedy.
97
In this corrupt country of ours we have what is called freedom of speech. Now I'm not saying what the Nazi did was correct but I won't deffend the cops either. I mean can you take a dude in a Nazi uniform seriously especially if his rifel has a goddamn bayonett on it? Thats my problem with the whole of the human race. As a group we are destructive and hateful theres no love theres no peace only anger and rage. Whats wrong with us?
98
Ignorance!!! Never ceases to amaze me how SHALLOW people are, and how easily they CONSUME a pre-fabricated “opinion” with out spending a SECOND to think for them selves and to actually LOOK into the issue, and that is precisely why MEDIA gets away with BRAINWASHING so easily.
The guy was not wearing a Nazi uniform, it was a German Wermaht uniform, a picture of which you can actually see on his ms page, which is one of MANY different costumes and uniforms that he had. He was a history senior in UW, and had absolutely no links to any kind of neo-nazi group.
He was a member of a historical re-enactment community, just like the red-necks that dress up and reenact civil war battles.
The rifle he was holding was a standard issue Mouser 98 with a bayonet, he was shooting BLANKS, and that’s exactly what he was trying to say to the “officers” when they as usual began BLASTING first and asking questions later.
Allen Murphy was fatally struck by SEVEN bullets, and it is currently not know how many shots in total both “officers” actually fired, but statistically when they shoot they empty their magazines and continue to shoot to KILL, because that’s how they are TRAINED.
Let me repeat it, “police officers” are OFFICIALLY TRAINED to shoot to KILL ONLY, meaning that when they draw their weapons, they are in the KILL mode, and will empty their magazines once they begin to fire. No other civilized nation in the world trains their CIVILIAN officers for KILL shots, and US has the WORLDS HIGHEST rate of police shooting deaths.
So let me explain this one because it’s no different from the ever repeating cycle of government sanctioned murder; cops showed up to find a guy in a uniform holding a rifle with a bayonet, yelled “drop it” and opened fire, and that’s exactly what the witnesses have clearly stated.
“Ray was at his computer in his hallway, directly above the basement stairwell, when he heard officers identify themselves and order Murphy to drop the weapon.
He then heard shots.
"It seemed to happen super, super fast," Ray said.
"I don't know if he was stunned, and not used to the police yelling at him or what, but he might have just froze," Ray said.”
Oh, did I mention that this tragedy took place in Ravena? “The” Jewish neighborhood of Seattle? And that certain neighbors were witnessed yelling at the guy for wearing a German uniform?
Keep gloating you ignorant fools. I hope that one day you’ll get to know how it feels when an armed cop hopped up on adrenaline is barking at you while pointing his gun at your heads, so have fun “cooperating” and “obeying” instructions. Maybe then somebody will wonder where the expression “like a deer in headlights” and “never knew what hit him” came from.
More...
The guy was not wearing a Nazi uniform, it was a German Wermaht uniform, a picture of which you can actually see on his ms page, which is one of MANY different costumes and uniforms that he had. He was a history senior in UW, and had absolutely no links to any kind of neo-nazi group.
He was a member of a historical re-enactment community, just like the red-necks that dress up and reenact civil war battles.
The rifle he was holding was a standard issue Mouser 98 with a bayonet, he was shooting BLANKS, and that’s exactly what he was trying to say to the “officers” when they as usual began BLASTING first and asking questions later.
Allen Murphy was fatally struck by SEVEN bullets, and it is currently not know how many shots in total both “officers” actually fired, but statistically when they shoot they empty their magazines and continue to shoot to KILL, because that’s how they are TRAINED.
Let me repeat it, “police officers” are OFFICIALLY TRAINED to shoot to KILL ONLY, meaning that when they draw their weapons, they are in the KILL mode, and will empty their magazines once they begin to fire. No other civilized nation in the world trains their CIVILIAN officers for KILL shots, and US has the WORLDS HIGHEST rate of police shooting deaths.
So let me explain this one because it’s no different from the ever repeating cycle of government sanctioned murder; cops showed up to find a guy in a uniform holding a rifle with a bayonet, yelled “drop it” and opened fire, and that’s exactly what the witnesses have clearly stated.
“Ray was at his computer in his hallway, directly above the basement stairwell, when he heard officers identify themselves and order Murphy to drop the weapon.
He then heard shots.
"It seemed to happen super, super fast," Ray said.
"I don't know if he was stunned, and not used to the police yelling at him or what, but he might have just froze," Ray said.”
Oh, did I mention that this tragedy took place in Ravena? “The” Jewish neighborhood of Seattle? And that certain neighbors were witnessed yelling at the guy for wearing a German uniform?
Keep gloating you ignorant fools. I hope that one day you’ll get to know how it feels when an armed cop hopped up on adrenaline is barking at you while pointing his gun at your heads, so have fun “cooperating” and “obeying” instructions. Maybe then somebody will wonder where the expression “like a deer in headlights” and “never knew what hit him” came from.
99
I'm so incredibly stunned by what has happened and by the ignorance and "oh so liberal thinking and open minded" individuals" that supposedly inhabit Seattle.
Im truly going to miss seeing Miles around, at parties, around the neighborhood, but mostly, everyday in the library amongst all the other students where he always stood out and made me smile just for that.
Im truly going to miss seeing Miles around, at parties, around the neighborhood, but mostly, everyday in the library amongst all the other students where he always stood out and made me smile just for that.
101
>>>> Cops lie.Cops ALWAYS lie.<<<<<
I’ve read enough police reports to know that cops don’t lie, they simply follow procedure.
Remember what Nixon said? “When a president does it it’s not a crime”.
Witnesses and accused make inaccurate and false statements; police officers make “mistakes”, and their reports are not “scrubbed”, they are “corrected” for “accuracy”.
Again, in overwhelming number of cases it has less to do with the actions of the officer or his/hers attempts to cover their butts, but with the departmental policy of protecting their budgets first, and the rights of the people second.
Don’t blame the cops, blame the suits that empower them and then cover it up.
I’ve read enough police reports to know that cops don’t lie, they simply follow procedure.
Remember what Nixon said? “When a president does it it’s not a crime”.
Witnesses and accused make inaccurate and false statements; police officers make “mistakes”, and their reports are not “scrubbed”, they are “corrected” for “accuracy”.
Again, in overwhelming number of cases it has less to do with the actions of the officer or his/hers attempts to cover their butts, but with the departmental policy of protecting their budgets first, and the rights of the people second.
Don’t blame the cops, blame the suits that empower them and then cover it up.
102
Oh gee, whatdaaya know, just came in on the news, yet another police shooting, this time on New York subway, where a 24 year old was on the ground, in handcuffs, and was shot in the back, point blank.
Yeah, everything is just fine; cops are just doing their jobs, nothing to see here, moving on.
I do recall clearly stating that the majority of such cases create victims on both sides, the victims of systematic violence against civilian population, and the cops that have to live with PTSD, substance abuse and severe emotional problems after they realize what actually took place, what they were a part of and why.
War veterans that managed to survive, come back into the world and retain a portion of their sanity have IDENTICAL questions of “WHY?”, and they too have to live and struggle with the consequence of violence.
Yeah, everything is just fine; cops are just doing their jobs, nothing to see here, moving on.
I do recall clearly stating that the majority of such cases create victims on both sides, the victims of systematic violence against civilian population, and the cops that have to live with PTSD, substance abuse and severe emotional problems after they realize what actually took place, what they were a part of and why.
War veterans that managed to survive, come back into the world and retain a portion of their sanity have IDENTICAL questions of “WHY?”, and they too have to live and struggle with the consequence of violence.
103
LoL!
As a Seattle Jew with friends in Ravenna, I can say I am glad Seattle Police killed this Christian idiot.
The Stranger is PRO-JEWISH! Get over it. As long as Christians are being killed, and Christian churches are being burned to the ground, all is well in this world.
As an oppressed Seattle Jew, I for one am glad The Stranger is a voice of reason in this town of Christian idiots.
As a Seattle Jew with friends in Ravenna, I can say I am glad Seattle Police killed this Christian idiot.
The Stranger is PRO-JEWISH! Get over it. As long as Christians are being killed, and Christian churches are being burned to the ground, all is well in this world.
As an oppressed Seattle Jew, I for one am glad The Stranger is a voice of reason in this town of Christian idiots.
104
Hey issur, the “oppressed Seattle Jew”, let me help you out. Ever seen the “On the Wings of Eagles” infomercials? You know, the ones that offer an opportunity to “save an oppressed Russian Jew from the evil Soviet Empire which hasn’t existed since 1991, only for mere $300 price of an airline ticket”, well heck, since you are so oppressed here in Seattle, I’ll put up $300 to send your butt to the Promised Land right now!
At the moment IDF definitely need fresh cannon fodder for their latest “defensive military action” of invading and reducing to rubble other people’s land, so how about it, care to stop trolling and step up to the plate to blow up some UN TV stations, hospitals, schools and such?
p.s. An old friend of mine did serve in IDF back in the 90s, he run around GS/WB with a Galil (a 5.56 re-chambered, AK based Finnish Valmet Rk 62 manufactured under license), and did figure out what a bunch of B.S. it all is, returned back to US, started working in UW ER while going to med school, and now he’s a doctor, saving lives instead of taking them.
And by the way, if you are going to pretend being Jewish, try not to make it that obvious, because so far it makes you look what Jews refer to as a “schmuck”.
Cheers all.
At the moment IDF definitely need fresh cannon fodder for their latest “defensive military action” of invading and reducing to rubble other people’s land, so how about it, care to stop trolling and step up to the plate to blow up some UN TV stations, hospitals, schools and such?
p.s. An old friend of mine did serve in IDF back in the 90s, he run around GS/WB with a Galil (a 5.56 re-chambered, AK based Finnish Valmet Rk 62 manufactured under license), and did figure out what a bunch of B.S. it all is, returned back to US, started working in UW ER while going to med school, and now he’s a doctor, saving lives instead of taking them.
And by the way, if you are going to pretend being Jewish, try not to make it that obvious, because so far it makes you look what Jews refer to as a “schmuck”.
Cheers all.
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