Slog
News & ArtsWednesday, December 31, 2008
City "The Salt Policy Is Now Changed."
Posted by Erica C. Barnett on Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 11:22 AM
The word from Mayor Greg Nickels's press conference, going on now: The city will use salt in future snowstorms "in very limited circumstances," despite lingering environmental concerns about salt's impact on freshwater streams and creeks and evidence that salt is not a panacea for ice.
3
What perfect timing to change that policy. Wait until all the snow/ice melts and it's no longer an issue, great.
4
I think we should commission a study, put all options on the next ballot, study the results of the vote, do a cost analysis of the different types of salt, then have another vote, and finally, vote again...
5
If "in very limited circumstances" means "every decade or so on the rare occasions where Seattle actually gets significant snow accumulation", then I'm all for it.
8
Hooray, now you can all go out for a drive to pick up your Mickey's tall boy and have Domino's pizza delivered on time during the next big snow storm! Fuck you, Puget Sound habitat!
9
I just love Seattle. Wait until the problem resolves itself or everyone is just too exhausted to care, and then say maybe, possibly, in the future, if this problem comes up again, we might do something about it. Maybe.
10
A delightfully pointless decision, as usual, since there are still next to no plow/trucks to deliver this theoretical salt to begin with. The problem wasn't a lack of salt.
Can Seattle/King County/Olympia do anything right?
Can Seattle/King County/Olympia do anything right?
12
Nothing like basing policy decisions on the screeching of right wing blogs.
Also? See the Viaduct replacement process.
Also? See the Viaduct replacement process.
14
"can I please change my 'B' snow grade to an 'A' now after the fact? and please please please re-elect me??? I mean, I told you we ARE Seattle City of Music..."
15
I think it's a good idea to use salt to keep roads open. Many healthcare workers in Seattle and the eastside (because of more affordable housing across the lake, north and south) couldn't make it to work because of horrible road conditions lasting so long. People in hospitals, nursing homes and assisting living facilities die when their caregivers don't show up.
17
@12,
If you think this is a view held only by those who post on right-wing blogs, you really need to get off of Capitol Hill more often.
If you think this is a view held only by those who post on right-wing blogs, you really need to get off of Capitol Hill more often.
20
addendum, with his salt quote at the end of the article: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/na…
21
@4 - "I think we should commission a study, put all options on the next ballot, study the results of the vote, do a cost analysis of the different types of salt, then have another vote, and finally, vote again..."
And then do the opposite of what we decide.
And then do the opposite of what we decide.
22
@13:
I wasn't advocating for sand; I was pointing out that people whined long and hard when they didn't want to take an extra hour on top of their two-hour, 15 mile commutes or get to the Broadway QFC without getting their hipster snow boots wet.
I wasn't advocating for sand; I was pointing out that people whined long and hard when they didn't want to take an extra hour on top of their two-hour, 15 mile commutes or get to the Broadway QFC without getting their hipster snow boots wet.
23
@22 Hipsters aren't the one's complaining... They're too poor to own cars on account of all that blow and PBR.
25
The City's current policy was based on really careful weighing of input from actual scientists who studied local conditions and risk factors related to salting vs. sanding. They came up with sanding, followed by sweeping up the sand and cleaning it for later reuse (that's what's happening right now) as the most prudent of the effective options, carrying the fewest and least damaging long term impacts to the variety of our actual local ecosystems. None of the options studied proved to be perfect, but that was suggested as the wisest option, and the City agreed.
But hey, fuck all that, right?
But hey, fuck all that, right?
26
Lack of salt had nothing to do with the problem. You can't just salt any old road and expect it all to go away. You need to plow it first. This does nothing except kill fish.
27
#23, or they actually care about suburbanites' children's futures regarding the environment, oil supply, safety, foreign wars, sprawl, car subsidies, road costs, etc.
30
Mmmm, now we get to drink down that Detroit Brown!
Once it gets into reservoirs, easily, it's difficult to get out. Salinity levels jump up, discoloration from easier seepage... good times.
Yum! Makes creating stocks and stews easier.
Once it gets into reservoirs, easily, it's difficult to get out. Salinity levels jump up, discoloration from easier seepage... good times.
Yum! Makes creating stocks and stews easier.
31
PLEASE READ THIS
I have 20 years of driving in snow experience. Never have I seen such a reckless disregard for human life as I saw with this city's mishandling of the snow. I can count 3-4 times where I almost got into a major accident, putting at risk my baby daughter, my wife, and myself, that could have been avoided with the use of salt. Cities that regularly get snow have solved this problem - let's learn from them. The use of a de-icer is critical to road safety.
PLEASE READ THIS
I have 20 years of driving in snow experience. Never have I seen such a reckless disregard for human life as I saw with this city's mishandling of the snow. I can count 3-4 times where I almost got into a major accident, putting at risk my baby daughter, my wife, and myself, that could have been avoided with the use of salt. Cities that regularly get snow have solved this problem - let's learn from them. The use of a de-icer is critical to road safety.
33
@31 why the fuck did you take your baby and wife in that situation? Did you not look outside and see the road conditions? Salt isn't magic, it can't stop other drivers from being retarded.
34
There is still an impassable intersection on my side street way up here at 500 feet. Does anyone at SDOT, on the council, or the mayor get that some parts of Seattle are at 500 feet? Could we get salt now?
35
@33 The road conditions in my area were fine. However, there were random patches of ICE at higher elevations because of the lack of a deicer. I would never take my family out if it looked unsafe.
This was TWO DAYS after the snow had finished falling. There is no excuse for ice at that point.
So, in short, FUCK YOU.
This was TWO DAYS after the snow had finished falling. There is no excuse for ice at that point.
So, in short, FUCK YOU.
37
In Tom Vanderbilt's excellent book Traffic, he explains how driving a car inherently lacks useful feedback to tell you if you are driving well or badly. Which is why most people think they are above average drivers. Even when we crash or get tickets, from the driver's seat it somehow looks like it wasn't our fault. We automatically rationalize excuses when our passengers complain about our driving, or other motorists honk at us.
Your spouse and your friends and the rescue crews prying you out with the jaws of life can all tell you your driving sucks, but our brains blithely reject this as faulty data.
It literally takes the extreme playing back video of hours of abysmal driving to convince someone their skills are lacking.
So when anyone talks about 20 years of driving experience, it doesn't mean much. Especially when they demonstrate a stubborn refusal to take responsibility for being aware of the current road conditions and judge whether or not to proceed.
Your spouse and your friends and the rescue crews prying you out with the jaws of life can all tell you your driving sucks, but our brains blithely reject this as faulty data.
It literally takes the extreme playing back video of hours of abysmal driving to convince someone their skills are lacking.
So when anyone talks about 20 years of driving experience, it doesn't mean much. Especially when they demonstrate a stubborn refusal to take responsibility for being aware of the current road conditions and judge whether or not to proceed.
38
Frankly people need to take some personal responsibility as well. Learn how your car handles in slippery conditions. Carry a shovel, chains, and a bag of sand/kitty litter/salt. Clean the fucking snow and ice off your car before you get on the road. Replace your tires before they go bald with all-season radials and consider getting a set of winter tires. Keep your gas tank full in the winter, especially if snow or ice are expected.
If it snows or gets icy please shovel and de-ice the sidewalk in front of your home or business, same thing for parking lots.
While I do think the various transportation agencies could do a much better job than they did, people also need to stop being such whiny ass titty babies.
Heaven forbid we have a major disaster in Seattle. It isn't so much the response of the powers that be I fear as the whining from those upset about anything that isn't working normally.
If it snows or gets icy please shovel and de-ice the sidewalk in front of your home or business, same thing for parking lots.
While I do think the various transportation agencies could do a much better job than they did, people also need to stop being such whiny ass titty babies.
Heaven forbid we have a major disaster in Seattle. It isn't so much the response of the powers that be I fear as the whining from those upset about anything that isn't working normally.
39
the rusting out cars argument seems counter to the standard agenda
older cars have worse emissions
rusting them out forced people to get new cars with better emissions and fuel economy
plus gives jobs to dockworkers unloading the cars from japan
it's a win win to rust out peoples cars
older cars have worse emissions
rusting them out forced people to get new cars with better emissions and fuel economy
plus gives jobs to dockworkers unloading the cars from japan
it's a win win to rust out peoples cars
40
@37 "So when anyone talks about 20 years of driving experience, it doesn't mean much."
So I guess that kind of negates the whole concept of experience, huh?
c'mon.
So I guess that kind of negates the whole concept of experience, huh?
c'mon.
41
Bitches please. Alaska salts the shit out of its roads for 9 FUCKING MONTHS and it sure as hell hasn't lost the fish and/or wildlife. I think we can handle salting for 1 or 2 days every few years. Jesus.
43
@40
Yes. Counterintuitive, isn't it? Look up DriveCam, and the psychology of driving, the Lake Wobegon Effect and so on. Or just look at the footnotes in Traffic.
Yes. Counterintuitive, isn't it? Look up DriveCam, and the psychology of driving, the Lake Wobegon Effect and so on. Or just look at the footnotes in Traffic.
44
So, no salt makes it hard to get to medical facilities. Can anyone show me hard evidence of actual deaths or unduly exacerbated medical conditions that are directly related to this situation?
Not talking about hyperbolic theorizing, but hard numbers that show a statistically significant increase during the last two weeks.
I'm so tired of the "imagine if..." arguments. In these cases I don't want to imagine. I want to know.
Not talking about hyperbolic theorizing, but hard numbers that show a statistically significant increase during the last two weeks.
I'm so tired of the "imagine if..." arguments. In these cases I don't want to imagine. I want to know.
45
If it snows or gets icy please shovel and de-ice the sidewalk in front of your home or business, same thing for parking lots.
#38 if you can show me where such equipment (and SALT!) is available for purchase within the city limits of Seattle... no actually within walking distance (1-2 miles) of my apartment during and after a snowstorm I would have bought some.
As it is, and as I've stated before, the economic realities of living in Seattle during a Snowpocalypse means that you're lucky if you can walk to a grocery store so you can stock up on just food since you're going to be trapped by impassible and outright dangerous roads for who knows how long.
Same goes for chains for one's car.
#38 if you can show me where such equipment (and SALT!) is available for purchase within the city limits of Seattle... no actually within walking distance (1-2 miles) of my apartment during and after a snowstorm I would have bought some.
As it is, and as I've stated before, the economic realities of living in Seattle during a Snowpocalypse means that you're lucky if you can walk to a grocery store so you can stock up on just food since you're going to be trapped by impassible and outright dangerous roads for who knows how long.
Same goes for chains for one's car.
Advertisement
Most Commented on Slog
-
Hating People Doesn't Make Them Thinner by Jen Graves
-
Los Angeles Gay Bar Bans Bachelorette Parties Until Marriage Equality Is Attained by David Schmader
-
Fill in the Blank by Grant Brissey
-
This Reminds Me of the Great Calculator Scare of the Late '70s/Early '80s by David Schmader
-
Idiot Tries to Defend Bigoted Anti-Gay-Marriage Preacher on Anderson Cooper by Paul Constant
-
SL Letter of the Day: Putting It In by Dan Savage
-
Six Moms with Too Much Time on Their Hands and a Shitty Website Decide to Fight Gay Superheroes by Paul Constant
-
Why Mayor McGinn's Wife Canceled Her Family's Seattle Times Subscription by Eli Sanders
-
What the Hell Is Wrong With Seattle's Pride Parade? by Dominic Holden
-
Meet the UW "Swagga Suit" by David Schmader
RSS
Facebook
Twitter
Comments (45) RSS