Slog
News & ArtsWednesday, December 31, 2008
Politics "Horrific."
Posted by Erica C. Barnett on Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 2:05 PM
That's the Seattle Transit Blog's assessment of Gov. Christine Gregoire's no-new-taxes transportation budget, which reduces or delays funding for projects from the Puget Sound to Yelm. That's usually, but not always, a bad thing from the perspective of transit advocates, as STB found:
The Yelm loop and the new SR 167 freeway will be delayed indefinitely.
The Regional Mobility Grant program, which funds things like park-and-rides and rush-hour transit service, will be cut by 43 percent, or $30 million.
Gregoire's budget includes no new funding for the Alaskan Way Viaduct, beyond the $2.4 billion already allocated.
HOV improvement projects in Tacoma and at the intersection of SR167 and I-405 will be delayed two years.
Amtrak's operating budget will be cut by 5.7 percent, or $2.1 million.
Fares on Washington State Ferries will increase by 2.5 percent—the maximum annual increase allowed by law.
Delaying transit-related improvements to the state's transportation system is shortsighted for obvious reasons, but delaying capital improvements like HOV lane upgrades will only lead to higher expenditures in the future, as the cost of labor and materials inevitably increase.
1
Like the governor, a lot of us business people are forced to be what you call "shortsighted" these days, when cash flow is lacking. You have to be able to pay this month's bills before you can invest in long-range initiatives.
2
Keep in mind that tax revenues for 2009 will plummet, probably requiring some Federal bailout. Even if magical elves improve the economy in '09, there won't be state revenues for quite a while after that. I'm as much in favor of improved regional transportation as you are, but WTF do you suggest instead? What money should be cut to preserve the transportation budget?
5
The costs for labor and materials usually decline in a recession. Look what has happened to oil and other commodities.
7
Hmmmm..... you have more money going out than comming in. This means you are loosing money. Either you raise taxes to increase the money going in, or you cut back on the money going out.
Would you prefer cutbacks to education? Cutbacks to medicare and medicaid?
Something has to be cut. What would you propose?
I'll tell you what I propose. You want a new viaduct or a tunnel or whatever? Toll it to cover the cost. Dont wanna pay the toll? Won't get enough from tolls because nobody pay? Must mean it isn't needed--the market has spoken. Spend the money to improve the link between I5 and the W. Seattle Bridge to handle the slack. The viaduct is really a luxury route, if we had to pay for taking it, everybody would use alternate routes. That is why we the people are so wishy washy about it--we really know in our heart of hearts we dont need any replacement.
520? It is gonna be tolled. People seem willing and able to pay the toll. The market has spoken.
While I dont commute on them, the WSF is the one that needs money. Have you seen the condition of the boats up in San Juan Islands? If we don't spend some money on maintenance (like a paint job), we are gonna have to pull a lot of ferries out of our ass really quick when they start getting big holes or cracks in their hulls.
Would you prefer cutbacks to education? Cutbacks to medicare and medicaid?
Something has to be cut. What would you propose?
I'll tell you what I propose. You want a new viaduct or a tunnel or whatever? Toll it to cover the cost. Dont wanna pay the toll? Won't get enough from tolls because nobody pay? Must mean it isn't needed--the market has spoken. Spend the money to improve the link between I5 and the W. Seattle Bridge to handle the slack. The viaduct is really a luxury route, if we had to pay for taking it, everybody would use alternate routes. That is why we the people are so wishy washy about it--we really know in our heart of hearts we dont need any replacement.
520? It is gonna be tolled. People seem willing and able to pay the toll. The market has spoken.
While I dont commute on them, the WSF is the one that needs money. Have you seen the condition of the boats up in San Juan Islands? If we don't spend some money on maintenance (like a paint job), we are gonna have to pull a lot of ferries out of our ass really quick when they start getting big holes or cracks in their hulls.
8
The really ugly thing in the transportation budget is the continued under capitalization of the ferry system.
We've lost 4 boats recently and the current budget proposal is to only replace one of those. Of the up to 8 ferries that will need replacing in the next 20 years no funding is provided until at least 2016.
This is setting the ferry system up for another crisis in 10 years if funding isn't forthcoming at that time for new boats. Even with the drastic ferry service cuts proposed it is likely the ferry service will be forced to further cut service if because of deferred maintenance and age another class of ferries has to be pulled from service.
Furthermore expect both passenger and vehicle ferry fares to continue to increase until 100% of the operating costs are covered by riders. This will really hurt low-income people and seniors who depend on the ferry service.
We've lost 4 boats recently and the current budget proposal is to only replace one of those. Of the up to 8 ferries that will need replacing in the next 20 years no funding is provided until at least 2016.
This is setting the ferry system up for another crisis in 10 years if funding isn't forthcoming at that time for new boats. Even with the drastic ferry service cuts proposed it is likely the ferry service will be forced to further cut service if because of deferred maintenance and age another class of ferries has to be pulled from service.
Furthermore expect both passenger and vehicle ferry fares to continue to increase until 100% of the operating costs are covered by riders. This will really hurt low-income people and seniors who depend on the ferry service.
11
Looks like Gregoire is giving the environment a double-whammie... no green measures, and cutting funding on our hopes of "greener" transportation. Yeah, the economy's fucked and we're all fucked along with it, but I'd rather pay more in taxes if it meant that our public transportation system wouldn't be screwed to such a degree.
12
more important than saving pet projects or special interests of weekly writers, is ensuring that state debt obligations are paid.
13
@9, I agree. But I think it is because we don't need it but nobody wants to admit it. We should focus on 520 and the ferry system. Seriously. I was amazed how ghetto the ferries have gotten. You can't let those things go without routine paint jobs or they will rust. And guess what? They are rusting. We are gonna have a huge problem if we dont maintain those things. You can't just pull a new one out of your ass.
As for Sound Transit? I hope to god somebody can find a way to get our ass in line for federal money. More money = faster completion. Faster completion = good.
As for Sound Transit? I hope to god somebody can find a way to get our ass in line for federal money. More money = faster completion. Faster completion = good.
15
I should point out most of this will be infilled by Obama's double match in the Rebuilding America plan.
But I'm sure you know that ... right?
But I'm sure you know that ... right?
18
Ugh. The FEDERAL government can and does issue more debt at any and all times. Even if it's a bad idea. The STATE government cannot and does not. See how that works?
Who would you tax, Erica? Oh, right, the mileage tax. I forgot. Or tried to forget.
Who would you tax, Erica? Oh, right, the mileage tax. I forgot. Or tried to forget.
19
@18, that was the point in reference to Will in Seattle. Is it a good idea in a deflationary period to increase your debt load on the premise it will result in a pip of GDP? The feds need to think long and hard about how they are going to manage the interest payments on current debt before they create new debt.
20
Oh, Mr. Poe, debt is good.
After all, we already borrowed your earnings for the next 40 years ...
After all, we already borrowed your earnings for the next 40 years ...
22
@21, this explains why you're utterly clueless. Deficit spending is not sustainable when it is the status quo of government operation (and when people only take half of Keynesian Theory to heart) Keynesian Economics doesn't work when anything under the sun can be justified for the government to throw money at because it "stimulates the economy".
Keynes had great insight in certain areas but much has been taken to the extreme under his name.
Keynes had great insight in certain areas but much has been taken to the extreme under his name.
24
Those of you advocating against spending because of debt don't seem to realize that a shrinking economy means even less revenue, which means that you get a double whammy of lower GDP and higher debt. In a recession the sensible thing to do is to spend on policies that produce long-term economic growth and full employment. It's counter-intuitive but in our current situation spending more in the short term will reduce debt in the long term. These policies have been proven to work empirically, which is why even many conservative economists are recommending them now.
In non-depressionary times, monetary policy can manage the economy more efficiently, though there is still a role for sensible government investment in infrastructure. However, when the Fed's rate is effectively zero as it is now, there is no more monetary policy yet. We either spend our way out of this mess, or enter a deflationary spiral.
But if you really want to get an informed discussion of why all this is so, read Paul Krugman's blog: http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/. He supports this view with charts, statistics, calculus, and a Nobel-winning intellect.
In non-depressionary times, monetary policy can manage the economy more efficiently, though there is still a role for sensible government investment in infrastructure. However, when the Fed's rate is effectively zero as it is now, there is no more monetary policy yet. We either spend our way out of this mess, or enter a deflationary spiral.
But if you really want to get an informed discussion of why all this is so, read Paul Krugman's blog: http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/. He supports this view with charts, statistics, calculus, and a Nobel-winning intellect.
25
At least Queen Christine wants to start deporting illegal aliens who are in jail.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/6420…
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/6420…
27
Wait till the Legislature and the Gov. and Seattle finds out the $6+ billion dollar price tag and SR 520 option K--one of the SR 520 designs to be discussed 1/6/08 at 5:30pm in the City Council Chambers.
The land under the Montlake cut has to be frozen for 5 months before any construction can begin on the risky 1500' Option K tunnel which would have a 7-8+% grade, slowing buses in mixed traffic and a sharp curve that reduces speed to less than 25 MPH. The K and L option's interchanges, one above ground and one under-water, are located in McCurdy Park/MOHAI. The north portals are located on University of Washington property, dedicated for educational purposes, and in the U of W Master Plan for buildings to expand the Medical School/Hospital. What a waste of limited state Transportation BUCKS!
KUSS50
The land under the Montlake cut has to be frozen for 5 months before any construction can begin on the risky 1500' Option K tunnel which would have a 7-8+% grade, slowing buses in mixed traffic and a sharp curve that reduces speed to less than 25 MPH. The K and L option's interchanges, one above ground and one under-water, are located in McCurdy Park/MOHAI. The north portals are located on University of Washington property, dedicated for educational purposes, and in the U of W Master Plan for buildings to expand the Medical School/Hospital. What a waste of limited state Transportation BUCKS!
KUSS50
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