Slog
News & ArtsTuesday, December 23, 2008
News The Morning News
Posted by Dominic Holden on Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 8:07 AM
Why the Roads Are Coated in Sheets of Ice: Transportation crews refuse to salt the roads—which would melt the snow—because salt is bad for Puget Sound. "We're trying to create a hard-packed surface," says Alex Wiggins, chief of staff for the Seattle Department of Transportation.
Closed: Seattle’s Greyhound station.
Roof: Collapses under snow in Marysville.
Consumer Confidence: Depression spurs run on five-finger discounts.
What Did You Expect? Obama, who is kind of a homophobe, still pushing the Warren invocation.
Gay Feelings: Angry 'mos send 27,000 letters to the LDS church.
Michael Jackson: His spokesman insists it’s a "total fabrication" that he needs a new lung due to a respiratory disease.
Innocent Children: Six-thousand soldiers in Sudan.
New Year’s Pleas: Sole brother number one set to go on trial on December 31.
Nuclear Escalation: India’s retaliation for the Mumbai attacks—which it blames on Pakistani militants—could blow the world sky high.
Trepidation: Thai king, the only nationally beloved figure, fails to impart confidence in the new coalition government. Citizens protested for months before ousting the previous government for election fraud.
Partnership for a Drug Free America: Cartels decapitate six soldiers.
The beheadings also came as Mexico prepares to use $400 million in U.S. aid to fortify its war on traffickers."We are well aware that these cowardly assassins are trying to terrorize the state and society," [President Felipe] Calderon said at a speech in Mexico City. "We will not take one step back in this fight nor will there be any deal or mercy for the country's clear enemies."
Windows Pain: Microsoft extends XP sales—for users afraid to upgrade to Microsoft’s other shitty OS’s.
Useless Feature! Print from your iPhone! No! Yes!
1
RE: Why the Roads Are Coated in Sheets of Ice
They are PACKING THE STREETS? WTFBBQKITTENS?!!?!?!?!? Are they out of their mind? I don't understand. Move the fucking snow off the streets!!! jesus fucking christ! we are all hills and they want to pack the snow?!?!?!
Holy fuck. They won't salt, and then make it worse by "packing" the snow into sheets of ice?
Goddamnit. Goddamnit. Goddamnit.
/end rant
They are PACKING THE STREETS? WTFBBQKITTENS?!!?!?!?!? Are they out of their mind? I don't understand. Move the fucking snow off the streets!!! jesus fucking christ! we are all hills and they want to pack the snow?!?!?!
Holy fuck. They won't salt, and then make it worse by "packing" the snow into sheets of ice?
Goddamnit. Goddamnit. Goddamnit.
/end rant
3
Something doesn't smell right. We have freshwater lakes and rivers coming out of our ears in Minnesota, but we dump tons of salt and deicers on the roads every winter. Yet Seattle is afraid of getting salt into the ocean?
5
Salt also rusts out the bottoms of cars and trucks. But no one talks about that problem with salt...not as glamourous as saying "The Enriomental Nazi's won't let us use salt" line.
6
A black man who is homophobic? That is so shocking and so rare in America!! Tell me it's not true!!
7
I don't understand all the "how you like him now" sentiment that's thrown around whenever Obama is criticized on Slog (I'm looking at you Non, but there are plenty of others doing it too).
First, these commentors accused us of deifying him. Then, when we point out that he is not perfect, they say "oh, he's not so great now, is he?"
Here's a shocker: Most of us never thought he was perfect. We were just pleased to have an intelligent, thoughtful, inspiring candidate who seems truly committed to turning around our country. I, for one, fully expected that I would not agree with everything he did. Anyways, Slog wouldn't be nearly as much fun if we didn't disagree with our politicians every once in a awhile....
First, these commentors accused us of deifying him. Then, when we point out that he is not perfect, they say "oh, he's not so great now, is he?"
Here's a shocker: Most of us never thought he was perfect. We were just pleased to have an intelligent, thoughtful, inspiring candidate who seems truly committed to turning around our country. I, for one, fully expected that I would not agree with everything he did. Anyways, Slog wouldn't be nearly as much fun if we didn't disagree with our politicians every once in a awhile....
8
Hey 5:
salt that you only put on the roads about oncet a year won't have but 1/100th the rust impact of what they deal with in Michigan and upstate NY every year.
And why do all those places use it?
Because it works.
Last I checked, Puget sound is salty aready. I think there's even a restaurant on it called.....Salty's!
The city also has a policy of having snow ploughs with rubber "scrapers."
Once again -- failure by consensus.
All the expense of buying and storing and maintaining 27 snowpows. Then, when they are used, they DON'T CLEAR THE ROADS AND MAKE THEM ICIER.
Every point of view has to be respected, even if wrong and counterporductive to the overall goal of the majority, thus every solution must be diluted down to the point of not working very well.
Failure then becomes celebrated as a sign of our unique distinctiveness.
salt that you only put on the roads about oncet a year won't have but 1/100th the rust impact of what they deal with in Michigan and upstate NY every year.
And why do all those places use it?
Because it works.
Last I checked, Puget sound is salty aready. I think there's even a restaurant on it called.....Salty's!
The city also has a policy of having snow ploughs with rubber "scrapers."
Once again -- failure by consensus.
All the expense of buying and storing and maintaining 27 snowpows. Then, when they are used, they DON'T CLEAR THE ROADS AND MAKE THEM ICIER.
Every point of view has to be respected, even if wrong and counterporductive to the overall goal of the majority, thus every solution must be diluted down to the point of not working very well.
Failure then becomes celebrated as a sign of our unique distinctiveness.
9
It isn't much of a problem if we're only salting once a year, but I'd be more concerned about millions of dollars in property damage than I would the sound. That said, calling the sound the "ocean" is a little bit of an ecological simplification, no?
"We're trying to create a hard pack" is a pretty boneheaded comment, though with the pitiful ROI we would get from a real plow/salt/sand fleet it's not surprising that they are trying to polish a turd. The hard pack was already created, the first night, and aside from heavy salting there's nothing we can really do about it now, especially with plows.
Does anyone actually know how much salting it would take to clear a solid 2" ice pack? How long would it take? I'm curious.
"We're trying to create a hard pack" is a pretty boneheaded comment, though with the pitiful ROI we would get from a real plow/salt/sand fleet it's not surprising that they are trying to polish a turd. The hard pack was already created, the first night, and aside from heavy salting there's nothing we can really do about it now, especially with plows.
Does anyone actually know how much salting it would take to clear a solid 2" ice pack? How long would it take? I'm curious.
10
Obama is "kind of a homophobe"? Really? A homophobe?
Hyperbole, thy name is Dominic.
Also, bravo Julie in Chicago. And to all the jerkoffs (non, et al)... news flash: the only people that thought Obama is perfect were YOU assholes. You all knew that compared to the total retards coming from the right, Obama is perfect. So you project, and meanwhile the rest of us non-assholes were (as Julie so aptly put it) just happy to have a guy with a brain in his head.
Hyperbole, thy name is Dominic.
Also, bravo Julie in Chicago. And to all the jerkoffs (non, et al)... news flash: the only people that thought Obama is perfect were YOU assholes. You all knew that compared to the total retards coming from the right, Obama is perfect. So you project, and meanwhile the rest of us non-assholes were (as Julie so aptly put it) just happy to have a guy with a brain in his head.
11
What is your evidence that Obama himself is a homophobe? Don't make stupid, patently untrue accusations because you're unhappy with Rev. Warren. It makes you sound like a dick.
12
Salt absolutely destroys car paint and bodies. I grew up in Cleveland, which did a lot of salting (salt mines were nearby and salt was cheap). Cars would rust out in a couple of years.
If you can't drive in snow then stay off the roads until it melts. It won't take long.
If you can't drive in snow then stay off the roads until it melts. It won't take long.
13
It's ridiculous -- everyone keeps talking about how this is a freak event and snow is totally rare and that's why we're not prepared. If it really is such a once a decade event -- is the salt we use now really going to have a major impact?
I doubt it.
45th is like the surface of the moon. The plows aren't being used effectively. I have never seen such an epic failure.
I doubt it.
45th is like the surface of the moon. The plows aren't being used effectively. I have never seen such an epic failure.
14
PC, are you on the rag again? You sound like it or is it just your yeast infection acting up again?
15
Do you just hope no one follows the links? Obama is not "still pushing the Warren invocation." The link is to an op-ed criticizing the Warren pick, not an article about Obama "still pushing" anything.
16
they should use the water from puget sound to salt the roads - there is no snow along alki where the waves come up on the walkway...
17
Julie totally called me on my shit!
I was just running with the incendiary "homophobe" comment that Dominic used
I was just running with the incendiary "homophobe" comment that Dominic used
18
when i was living in upstate new york, i bought a car. there they also have plentiful salt mines. unfortunately, i brought this car out here. it is rusting out from underneath me. when mechanics work on it, it takes them about 10-15 seconds to tell me "it's from the northeast, isn't it?"
i learned to hate salt there. to think of the amount of salt that goes into soil and water. and the HUGE detrimental effect it has on cars. and it gets everywhere.
yeah seattle is kindof lagging in snow removal. but i appreciate their unwillingness to use salt.
i also think that "WTFBBQKITTENS" is very funny. :)
i learned to hate salt there. to think of the amount of salt that goes into soil and water. and the HUGE detrimental effect it has on cars. and it gets everywhere.
yeah seattle is kindof lagging in snow removal. but i appreciate their unwillingness to use salt.
i also think that "WTFBBQKITTENS" is very funny. :)
19
Obama "kind of a homophobe"? Based on what? Do you want to clarify or back that up in any way, Dominic, or are you on a Joe the Plumber track now?
20
So salt is bad, but the mysterious "chemical de-icer" is ok? I know salt has it's drawbacks, but I'd rather have that over some unknown substance.
21
Another snow day! I'm more than happy to sacrifice a long commute today and not risk damaging the sound, urban gardens, cars, property, etc. It's snow--enjoy it!
Some of us like living in a city that has priorities on the right track.
Some of us like living in a city that has priorities on the right track.
22
I guess Melissa Etheridge is kind of a homophobe too, because I just read an article written by her about her meeting with Rick Warren and her call for working together with people who disagree.
23
I understand the salt comment, though. I went to college in NW PA, and campus was about 5 blocks from Lake Erie. They didn't salt that close to the lake because of the runoff into the lake. They did, however, plow the main streets. The side streets, however, they just drove the plow down them to flatten out the snow and turn it into ice. Fun when you are in college and don't have to drive. Less fun by the time you get to student teaching and do have to drive.
24
I called Obama "kind of a homophobe" because he invited Rick Warren--who has compared the marriage of two same-sex adults to incest and pedophilia--to open the inauguration. Do you call that "being inclusive"?
25
@24 - Yes, and your comment is WAY off-base. Rick Warren is not Barack Obama, and they publicly disagree about gay marriage. Now, Rick Warren is a homophobic douchebag, but he's a homophobic douchebag who's sold tens of millions of books to right-wingers all over this country, and is enormously influential. Things are about to get really bad with the economy, and the right-wing bigots will only get worse if we shut them out.
Reaching out - being inclusive - is not the same as giving in. You're acting like they are. You're treating Obama with bad faith: the inauguration is not Prop 8. Including or not including Rick Warren does nothing for or against gay rights in the short-term, and keeping them close and explaining ourselves -- aka being the rational, sensible people we are, the rational, sensible people that right-wing bigots are incapable of being, or else they wouldn't be bigots -- means that we have the advantage. We can figure out what makes them tick and de-fuse it. And that's the only way we're going to fix our right-wing bigot infestation in this country in the long term, especially since, as the economy tanks, more and more out-of-work people are going to be taking their angry selves to church.
You have decided that Obama can ONLY be up to no good, and have decided that you can't take him at his word, that he intends to fight for gay rights, and that Rick Warren doesn't speak for him. You may not see the reasons for it at this moment, but it's not taking anyone's rights away, it's just a prayer to an invisible deity. So why, now, does that make Obama a homophobe? And do you really want to cash in your credibility over this instead of, say, ACTUAL LEGISLATION that actually does something, and isn't just symbolic?
Reaching out - being inclusive - is not the same as giving in. You're acting like they are. You're treating Obama with bad faith: the inauguration is not Prop 8. Including or not including Rick Warren does nothing for or against gay rights in the short-term, and keeping them close and explaining ourselves -- aka being the rational, sensible people we are, the rational, sensible people that right-wing bigots are incapable of being, or else they wouldn't be bigots -- means that we have the advantage. We can figure out what makes them tick and de-fuse it. And that's the only way we're going to fix our right-wing bigot infestation in this country in the long term, especially since, as the economy tanks, more and more out-of-work people are going to be taking their angry selves to church.
You have decided that Obama can ONLY be up to no good, and have decided that you can't take him at his word, that he intends to fight for gay rights, and that Rick Warren doesn't speak for him. You may not see the reasons for it at this moment, but it's not taking anyone's rights away, it's just a prayer to an invisible deity. So why, now, does that make Obama a homophobe? And do you really want to cash in your credibility over this instead of, say, ACTUAL LEGISLATION that actually does something, and isn't just symbolic?
26
@ 24: oh, no, now you've sparked a whole new debate...
Obama is not a homophobe, Warren is. I don't like Warren, and I totally understand why everyone is pissed; but Obama is a long way from Warren.
There may be, juuuuust may be, some grey area between denouncing Warren & being a full on homophobe.
Obama is not a homophobe, Warren is. I don't like Warren, and I totally understand why everyone is pissed; but Obama is a long way from Warren.
There may be, juuuuust may be, some grey area between denouncing Warren & being a full on homophobe.
27
@ 26) Darn, not again... you know how I hate to spark debate.
I know that Warren is Warren and Obama is Obama and that Warren is not Obama. But if a president-elect invited a racist--who compared interacial marriage to bestiality--to his inauguration, I'd say the president-elect was a "kind of a racist." I know that's a guilt-by-association argument, but it takes some prejudice to seek out and promote a bigot at the freaking inauguration.
And, for the record, I don't think inviting Warren is a bad idea, politically speaking. Protests from liberal fags like me are exactly the sort of thing Obama needs to quiet the right-wing radio hounds.
I know that Warren is Warren and Obama is Obama and that Warren is not Obama. But if a president-elect invited a racist--who compared interacial marriage to bestiality--to his inauguration, I'd say the president-elect was a "kind of a racist." I know that's a guilt-by-association argument, but it takes some prejudice to seek out and promote a bigot at the freaking inauguration.
And, for the record, I don't think inviting Warren is a bad idea, politically speaking. Protests from liberal fags like me are exactly the sort of thing Obama needs to quiet the right-wing radio hounds.
28
Also, I've seen a lot of commentary remembering how Clinton threw gays "under the bus" in '92 and '93. Obama is also not Clinton.
Remember Rev. Wright? And how, when he was saying really controversial stuff ("God Damn America"), over and over again, Obama refused to disown him:
From a speech on 3/18/2008, via Sullivan
This is the way Obama's mind works. You can argue about its effectiveness, but you're completely missing the point if you think that Obama simply endorses whatever comes out of Warren's mouth.
So feel free to criticize and mock Warren all you want. But don't make the mistake of confusing him for Obama.
More...
Remember Rev. Wright? And how, when he was saying really controversial stuff ("God Damn America"), over and over again, Obama refused to disown him:
I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother - a woman who helped raise me, a woman who sacrificed again and again for me, a woman who loves me as much as she loves anything in this world, but a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe.
These people are a part of me. And they are a part of America, this country that I love.
Some will see this as an attempt to justify or excuse comments that are simply inexcusable. I can assure you it is not. I suppose the politically safe thing would be to move on from this episode and just hope that it fades into the woodwork. We can dismiss Reverend Wright as a crank or a demagogue, just as some have dismissed Geraldine Ferraro, in the aftermath of her recent statements, as harboring some deep-seated racial bias.
But race is an issue that I believe this nation cannot afford to ignore right now. We would be making the same mistake that Reverend Wright made in his offending sermons about America - to simplify and stereotype and amplify the negative to the point that it distorts reality.
The fact is that the comments that have been made and the issues that have surfaced over the last few weeks reflect the complexities of race in this country that we've never really worked through - a part of our union that we have yet to perfect. And if we walk away now, if we simply retreat into our respective corners, we will never be able to come together and solve challenges like health care, or education, or the need to find good jobs for every American.
Understanding this reality requires a reminder of how we arrived at this point. As William Faulkner once wrote, "The past isn't dead and buried. In fact, it isn't even past."
From a speech on 3/18/2008, via Sullivan
This is the way Obama's mind works. You can argue about its effectiveness, but you're completely missing the point if you think that Obama simply endorses whatever comes out of Warren's mouth.
So feel free to criticize and mock Warren all you want. But don't make the mistake of confusing him for Obama.
29
28--Warren is an asshat who does not need to be "included". He needs to be run out of town on a rail, and people like him need to be taught that society no longer has the stomach for stupid bigots. People like him need to be excluded from public celebrations. People like him need to be reminded what horrible, miserable fuckwads they are every day. We don't need to include them. We need to tell them to fuck off and leave the rest of to live our lives in peace. Their bigotry has no place in a free society to guarantees equal protection as part of our founding documents.
30
It doesn't?
He needs to be run out of town on a rail, and people like him need to be taught that society no longer has the stomach for stupid bigots.
It doesn't?
31
Warren is an asshat who does not need to be "included". He needs to be run out of town on a rail
True, but I hate to tell you; Warren is fucking mainstream. I completely agree with you about Warren, but demanding Obama run him out on a rail will only serve to divide this country further.
I hate to face it too, but this is our country; we have to make nice, no matter what the other side has said or done to us.
True, but I hate to tell you; Warren is fucking mainstream. I completely agree with you about Warren, but demanding Obama run him out on a rail will only serve to divide this country further.
I hate to face it too, but this is our country; we have to make nice, no matter what the other side has said or done to us.
32
31--I do expect Obama to be a leader, and I want him, so very much to stand up and point out that what Warren and his fucktard ilk stand for is fundamentally unAmerican and unconstitutional. He can stand on defending the constitution, not on religious or moral principles if he wants--he is a constitutional lawyer--but he should be a leader about this. He was supposed to be a shining example of a triumph over bigotry and he should stand up for those illegally discriminated against in this society, and do everything to point out how unAmerican and how unconstitutional these shitheads' irrational bigotry and how unAmerican and unconstitution it is to shove "their" religious interpretations down our throats by co-opting public policy to further their religious purposes.
33
@31 - I understand your anger, and I understand the injustice that these people want to and have perpetrated. We have the same goals: equality for all, living our lives in peace. And we agree that under no circumstances should we give an inch to these bigots. We want them, in the end, to understand how wrong-headed they are.
What we need to come to terms with is HOW to get there.
It's easy to think that if we just accuse them and scream at them loud enough, they'll magically disappear and we'll never have to worry about them again. However, fundamentalism doesn't work like that; it only hardens under confrontation and fighting.
Instead, if we show them the respect that they don't show us, by listening to them considerately, and acknowledging their concerns (even if they're imaginary), then showing them the way forward, and showing by example how we're not a bunch of hot-headed extremists, they may just begin to warm up to our message.
Remember, in the end what needs to change is not how they view gays but how they view God. They think they have some direct knowledge of the mind of God, and that's what lends them their supposed authority. Without the God-given certainty of their bigotry, it won't have a leg to stand on. This fight needs to happen within the domain of religion, and that means meeting people where they are today, and out-Jesus'ing them (as Jesus hung out with prostitutes and tax collectors, not with the pious!).
What we need to come to terms with is HOW to get there.
It's easy to think that if we just accuse them and scream at them loud enough, they'll magically disappear and we'll never have to worry about them again. However, fundamentalism doesn't work like that; it only hardens under confrontation and fighting.
Instead, if we show them the respect that they don't show us, by listening to them considerately, and acknowledging their concerns (even if they're imaginary), then showing them the way forward, and showing by example how we're not a bunch of hot-headed extremists, they may just begin to warm up to our message.
Remember, in the end what needs to change is not how they view gays but how they view God. They think they have some direct knowledge of the mind of God, and that's what lends them their supposed authority. Without the God-given certainty of their bigotry, it won't have a leg to stand on. This fight needs to happen within the domain of religion, and that means meeting people where they are today, and out-Jesus'ing them (as Jesus hung out with prostitutes and tax collectors, not with the pious!).
35
@33-- I don't care how they view god. there is no god, and their idea of god has nothing to do with me. nor should it have any bearing on laws that affect me and my family. i don't want to give them the respect they refuse to give us. their bigotry is based on some silly fairy tale that they have corrupted for their own purposes. it has nothing to do with me or my government. but my government is tasked fundamentally with protecting me from them, even when they are in the majority.
36
@35 - That's the point - there's a gap between what should be and what is, and if you want to get where we should be we need a plan to get there. Ignoring the problem or refusing to deal with it doesn't make it go away.
37
@36-My point is that we should be using the law to assert our rights, not trying to make nice with these people who are not living in the real world. Black students didn't get the right to attend white schools by making nice with the KKK--the court upheld the constitution and defeated the bigotry. Same thing with interracial marriage, women's rights over their own health, etc. This is another case where we don't need these people on our side--we need to focus on our constitutional right to equal protection and then they can either eventually come to their senses, or become as much of an anachromism as the klan.
38
@37 - Like I said, we can argue about the effectiveness of this approach - which I'm through with on this thread right now - but saying Obama is "kind of a homophobe" is completely missing the point of what he's doing here. You might say he's misguided, but homophobic he is not.
39
Salt does not rust out cars in a couple of years. It rusts out the cars of idiot people who never wash them.
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