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News & ArtsMonday, December 22, 2008
Homo Well, It's Something...
Posted by Dan Savage on Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 4:31 PM
Wisconsin Rep. Tammy Baldwin, the first openly gay non-incumbent to be elected to Congress, has been honored by President-elect Obama.Baldwin, one of three openly gay representatives who will be serving in the 111th Congress along with Massachusetts' Barney Frank and Colorado's Jared Polis, has been named an honorary co-chair of the Presidential Inaugural Committee.
And there's that marching band...
2
It's like. Thank you Mr. Obama. Thank you Mr. Obama. We're so grateful that you'll give us something. Honorary Co-Chair of the Presidential Inaugural Committee. Wow! High profile, will be seen and heard (oops, sorry just seen) by millions and millions of people. Well, maybe not seen but a few people might learn about it through word of mouth. Thank you so, so very much. It means shit.
4
Jesus, I just realized you guys are going to be on this for nearly another full MONTH.
I know nobody is hearing me, but I think you ought to consider spending this valuable time and bandwidth changing people's minds about gay civil rights, or helping those who are at work changing minds. Because that changes votes. See? Which is how you, you know, win?
Like any of you care about winning elections, right? Oh well. Get on with wallowing in being offended if that's what you love most...
I know nobody is hearing me, but I think you ought to consider spending this valuable time and bandwidth changing people's minds about gay civil rights, or helping those who are at work changing minds. Because that changes votes. See? Which is how you, you know, win?
Like any of you care about winning elections, right? Oh well. Get on with wallowing in being offended if that's what you love most...
6
Right. Lowery. The guy giving the benediction. Black civil rights leader who's pro gay-marriage, right?
8
Fuckin' A, time to move on...
What gets me is that other gay people are treating the Warren thing like it's the same as Prop 8. Bullshit! Prop 8 very directly affected (and continues to affect) tens of thousands of people, and should be vigorously attacked, even with, yes, street protest; the Warren thing affects...what? As someone suggested in another Warren thread, it's just symbolism, nothing more.
ATTENTION ALL HOMOS: Nobody's rights are being infringed upon by Rick Warren saying a prayer at the inauguration. So get the fuck over it.
What gets me is that other gay people are treating the Warren thing like it's the same as Prop 8. Bullshit! Prop 8 very directly affected (and continues to affect) tens of thousands of people, and should be vigorously attacked, even with, yes, street protest; the Warren thing affects...what? As someone suggested in another Warren thread, it's just symbolism, nothing more.
ATTENTION ALL HOMOS: Nobody's rights are being infringed upon by Rick Warren saying a prayer at the inauguration. So get the fuck over it.
10
@9:
I will not enjoy losing, cause thats no fun but it's temporary . Yet still, it's preferable than getting the god clap and fleas and permanent stench that are a result of lying down w/ the lying christianist dogs. Go ahead and win then, sucker.
I will not enjoy losing, cause thats no fun but it's temporary . Yet still, it's preferable than getting the god clap and fleas and permanent stench that are a result of lying down w/ the lying christianist dogs. Go ahead and win then, sucker.
11
Mark seems to be suffering from the affliction of expecting Obama to solve everything with a wave of his magic wand. Upon realizing that there's not much that Obama can do, even repealing DOMA is going to be hard work, Mark and others like him are determined to find a scapegoat.
@10,
It's nice to know you care more about moral perfection than getting results. Maybe you have more in common with those "lying christianist dogs" than you'd like to admit.
@10,
It's nice to know you care more about moral perfection than getting results. Maybe you have more in common with those "lying christianist dogs" than you'd like to admit.
13
It's nice to know you care more about moral perfection than getting results. Maybe you have more in common with those "lying christianist dogs" than you'd like to admit.
that probably would be true, but for the fact that I'm not a moral absolutist. And just that I've found I don't like hanging out with those that are, you know for the most part. I'm relatively cool w/ it.
that probably would be true, but for the fact that I'm not a moral absolutist. And just that I've found I don't like hanging out with those that are, you know for the most part. I'm relatively cool w/ it.
14
God I can't take another month of this. Does anyone have a solution to this? Really. What is there beyond Rick Warren, and what will the gay community do once the inauguration is over? If a year or two from now, ENDA is passed, Matthew Shepard act is passed, there is no DADT and no DOMA, then what?
Yes, I know, none of it will happen because Obama is a bigot, you knew it all along, didn't drink the kook-aid, and then got slapped in the face, thrown under the bus, and you will not shut up, no matter how many times evil gays and Melissa Etheridge tell you to.
Then what?
Yes, I know, none of it will happen because Obama is a bigot, you knew it all along, didn't drink the kook-aid, and then got slapped in the face, thrown under the bus, and you will not shut up, no matter how many times evil gays and Melissa Etheridge tell you to.
Then what?
15
sure ... NOW! now a few "the gays" turn up! after Obama has made an ass of himself! it's all so "let's make sure the help get its slice of christmas cake."
16
Watch and learn, my young Padawans -
The addition of Tammy Baldwin to a rather distinguished list of Presidential Inaugural Committee co-chairs is a significant action, and (no offense Ms. Baldwin) no one can fail to recognize it as a reaction from Obama to the outrage which the Gay and Allies community have been expressing.
We must give him credit - he IS listening, and he IS responding. Viewed from any lens of the political landscape that alone is amazing. That the first African American President Elect IS listening and IS responding to the Queer Community and Allies IS even more significant. Please give him the credit he deserves for this.
Whatever points he may have been receiving from those conservatives (i.e right wingnuts) who would have seen his selection of Warren and his refusal to rescind the invitation in the face of GLBT outrage as proof that he would not 'cave in' to the 'coercive tactics' of the queer activists (i.e. 'sexual jihadists' - isn't that what they're calling us now?), well he just tossed those points out the window - and he didn't have to.
The burden is now on us: if as a community we fail to acknowledge his response to us and our outrage - and his sacrifice of some amount of political bargaining chips with the right, and if we fail to do so without some minimal amount of grace, then we lose political standing, not only with him but with everyone - including our allies - who has been watching this issue (and remember we're the ones who raised the stink to get people to turn their attention on this).
Was his selection of Warren for this particular ceremony in the first place a poor choice? Yes. (what was he thinking, really!?).
Did we have good cause to be outraged and to express that? Yes.
Is Warren's role essentially ceremonial and ultimately of short duration? Yes. (It's not like he appointed Warren to the Supreme Court or even on his cabinet).
Is Tammy Baldwin's role essentially ceremonial and ultimately of short duration? Yes. (but the reason she was added to the committee is far more significant and will have longer lasting effects than her role - or Warren's role - will).
Obama has just offered us a political olive branch, and although it may not be the olive branch that has everything we want at this moment in time, it's a damn fine olive branch, and we really must offer him one in return. It's now our turn to put our integrity where our mouth is.
- From someone who has spent more years as a Gay Activist in a Red State than any of the previous commenters on this thread - watch and learn how the political game is played.
More...
The addition of Tammy Baldwin to a rather distinguished list of Presidential Inaugural Committee co-chairs is a significant action, and (no offense Ms. Baldwin) no one can fail to recognize it as a reaction from Obama to the outrage which the Gay and Allies community have been expressing.
We must give him credit - he IS listening, and he IS responding. Viewed from any lens of the political landscape that alone is amazing. That the first African American President Elect IS listening and IS responding to the Queer Community and Allies IS even more significant. Please give him the credit he deserves for this.
Whatever points he may have been receiving from those conservatives (i.e right wingnuts) who would have seen his selection of Warren and his refusal to rescind the invitation in the face of GLBT outrage as proof that he would not 'cave in' to the 'coercive tactics' of the queer activists (i.e. 'sexual jihadists' - isn't that what they're calling us now?), well he just tossed those points out the window - and he didn't have to.
The burden is now on us: if as a community we fail to acknowledge his response to us and our outrage - and his sacrifice of some amount of political bargaining chips with the right, and if we fail to do so without some minimal amount of grace, then we lose political standing, not only with him but with everyone - including our allies - who has been watching this issue (and remember we're the ones who raised the stink to get people to turn their attention on this).
Was his selection of Warren for this particular ceremony in the first place a poor choice? Yes. (what was he thinking, really!?).
Did we have good cause to be outraged and to express that? Yes.
Is Warren's role essentially ceremonial and ultimately of short duration? Yes. (It's not like he appointed Warren to the Supreme Court or even on his cabinet).
Is Tammy Baldwin's role essentially ceremonial and ultimately of short duration? Yes. (but the reason she was added to the committee is far more significant and will have longer lasting effects than her role - or Warren's role - will).
Obama has just offered us a political olive branch, and although it may not be the olive branch that has everything we want at this moment in time, it's a damn fine olive branch, and we really must offer him one in return. It's now our turn to put our integrity where our mouth is.
- From someone who has spent more years as a Gay Activist in a Red State than any of the previous commenters on this thread - watch and learn how the political game is played.
18
@17 Nice touch.
Keshmeshi @11:
No I don't think Obama has magical powers. Nor do I believe, like many of the kool-aid drinkers and apologists that he will heal the divisions in this country. I've stopped caring as to what Obama is or is not going to do once he is on the clock.
Rick Warren and Obama are friends. Obama made the decision to invite him to lead off his inauguration. I don't want Obama to rescind his invitation to Warren. Obama has made his bed and now he should have to lie in it. That means that Rick Warren may not be just a one hit wonder. Don't be surprised if Obama is calling on Warren for counsel and advice. Obama clearly doesn't get the insult he has made to gays and lesbians, nor does he really care. After all, equality for gays and lesbians is just another "issue" and when we speak up to defend ourselves we're just being "noisy."
All I care about now is that Obama does nothing to actually harm gays and lesbians while he is in office, because I don't believe he'll do anything meaningful to advance equality for gays and lesbians. Now I'll have to look to the liberal members of congress to play interference on anything careless that Obama might do.
Keshmeshi @11:
No I don't think Obama has magical powers. Nor do I believe, like many of the kool-aid drinkers and apologists that he will heal the divisions in this country. I've stopped caring as to what Obama is or is not going to do once he is on the clock.
Rick Warren and Obama are friends. Obama made the decision to invite him to lead off his inauguration. I don't want Obama to rescind his invitation to Warren. Obama has made his bed and now he should have to lie in it. That means that Rick Warren may not be just a one hit wonder. Don't be surprised if Obama is calling on Warren for counsel and advice. Obama clearly doesn't get the insult he has made to gays and lesbians, nor does he really care. After all, equality for gays and lesbians is just another "issue" and when we speak up to defend ourselves we're just being "noisy."
All I care about now is that Obama does nothing to actually harm gays and lesbians while he is in office, because I don't believe he'll do anything meaningful to advance equality for gays and lesbians. Now I'll have to look to the liberal members of congress to play interference on anything careless that Obama might do.
19
Point of clarification on my post @18:
While I don't care what Obama will or will not do once he's sworn in--I'm referring to his policies in general. Specifically I just hope there will be enough members of Congress to prevent him from doing any harm to GLBT Americans. He continues to show a careless attitude towards GLBTs: Donnie McClurkin in the primaries and now Tubby Warren.
But we do get a marching band! Yay! And Tammy Baldwin's name will be on a piece of paper that most people won't see or care about. Woohoo!!! Yeah, baby we're living the dream. You betcha.
While I don't care what Obama will or will not do once he's sworn in--I'm referring to his policies in general. Specifically I just hope there will be enough members of Congress to prevent him from doing any harm to GLBT Americans. He continues to show a careless attitude towards GLBTs: Donnie McClurkin in the primaries and now Tubby Warren.
But we do get a marching band! Yay! And Tammy Baldwin's name will be on a piece of paper that most people won't see or care about. Woohoo!!! Yeah, baby we're living the dream. You betcha.
20
Mark, do you want to bet me that Obama won't do at least two significant things to advance equality for Gays and Lesbians? Because I'm absolutely certain that he will, and you seem to be convinced that he won't. I could use the extra cash.
It's more than the cash, though. It's mostly the fact that four years from now, when DADT and DOMA are gone, you won't be the least bit remorseful for fussing over such a ridiculous thing, and believing it's indicative of some broad anti-gay sentiment that Obama supposedly has. You'll act like you were never doubtful of it happening, but you'll continue to be bitter because it didn't happen soon enough, and there's still more work to be done. Work that you apparently don't want to do.
It's more than the cash, though. It's mostly the fact that four years from now, when DADT and DOMA are gone, you won't be the least bit remorseful for fussing over such a ridiculous thing, and believing it's indicative of some broad anti-gay sentiment that Obama supposedly has. You'll act like you were never doubtful of it happening, but you'll continue to be bitter because it didn't happen soon enough, and there's still more work to be done. Work that you apparently don't want to do.
21
My fondest hope for what Obama will do for GLBT is to make the NCAA have a Division 1 football playoff.
Because the BCS is really gay.
Because the BCS is really gay.
22
My fondest hope for what Obama will do for GLBT is to force the NCAA to have a Division 1 football playoff.
Because the BCS is really gay.
Because the BCS is really gay.
23
Why do you forget that he has a prominent lesbian already in his Cabinet? I have been very vocal in my support for gay rights but right now- you are all pissing me off. He doesn't have the magic solution and if think anything is going to change overnight- then you need a reality check. Rick Warren is minor- he won't be making policy of any kind~ Focus on Lowery~ focus on the positive~ That will get you farther than this perpetual negativity- Follow Andrew Sullivan and Melissa Etheridges lead.
24
Mark,
You have my support in real terms - a vote.
I voted no on 8. And I'm one of the many necessary links between gays and christianists.
And yet you have attacked me and others in this forum for wanting to reach out to the other side. Whatever, I have a thick skin and it's an anonymous board, but I gotta ask you what your point is.
A lot of us who are supporting marriage equality are simply asking that you take a longterm view.
I would also ask that you please stop insulting religious people who don't agree with you 100% - we are going to need their support, too.
I fear that your insistence on painting all christians/christianists/fundamentalists as homophobes is not only canceling out the effectiveness of my vote in support of marriage equality, but is fuel for the culture wars, which we're all really sick of.
Guess what? Fundamentalists will never be 100% on board with you. Guess what? over 100 years after emancipation, many white people are still racist. The question is: how do we work with them (and we will need to work with them) to make sure NOT that they love you (that's up to you and them), but that you have full rights and privileges and protection.
This is like a long-distance car trip where you can't get the kid who's having a temper tantrum to get back in the car. So we're just stuck. In the middle of nowhere. Until you get over it so we can drive you to where you asked to go.
You have my support in real terms - a vote.
I voted no on 8. And I'm one of the many necessary links between gays and christianists.
And yet you have attacked me and others in this forum for wanting to reach out to the other side. Whatever, I have a thick skin and it's an anonymous board, but I gotta ask you what your point is.
A lot of us who are supporting marriage equality are simply asking that you take a longterm view.
I would also ask that you please stop insulting religious people who don't agree with you 100% - we are going to need their support, too.
I fear that your insistence on painting all christians/christianists/fundamentalists as homophobes is not only canceling out the effectiveness of my vote in support of marriage equality, but is fuel for the culture wars, which we're all really sick of.
Guess what? Fundamentalists will never be 100% on board with you. Guess what? over 100 years after emancipation, many white people are still racist. The question is: how do we work with them (and we will need to work with them) to make sure NOT that they love you (that's up to you and them), but that you have full rights and privileges and protection.
This is like a long-distance car trip where you can't get the kid who's having a temper tantrum to get back in the car. So we're just stuck. In the middle of nowhere. Until you get over it so we can drive you to where you asked to go.
25
feh -- I'm not against you. I'm with you.
The difference is that I no longer TRUST Obama and you still do. Good. I hope you are right and I am wrong. Because I am a sore winner.
The difference is that I no longer TRUST Obama and you still do. Good. I hope you are right and I am wrong. Because I am a sore winner.
26
First and foremost I must apologize to Elenchos.
He got the brunt force of my anger at those non-gays here on Slog who seem to "know best."
Elenchos, you are right. I responded in a most bigoted manner towards you. I really am sorry.
He got the brunt force of my anger at those non-gays here on Slog who seem to "know best."
Elenchos, you are right. I responded in a most bigoted manner towards you. I really am sorry.
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