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News & ArtsFriday, December 19, 2008
Religion / Politics Hagee, Wright, Warren: Another Troublesome Priest
Posted by Dan Savage on Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 9:41 AM
Or preacher. Or pastor. Or whatever. Anyway, Rick Warren once had nothing but nice things to say about Syria—a state that hates Israel, occupies and terrorizes Lebanon, and backs terrorists groups like Hezbollah.
2
Looking at this purely as a matter of political strategy, this is Obama's first major failure since the election. He's managed to seriously piss off his liberal base while at the same time not really engendering any trust or support from the religious right (which seems to be what he was going for).
If this political gamble was "working", then you'd expect to see pundits and blogs on the right jumping up to defend Obama's decision to invite Warren. Do you see that happening? I don't.
If this political gamble was "working", then you'd expect to see pundits and blogs on the right jumping up to defend Obama's decision to invite Warren. Do you see that happening? I don't.
3
After people got indignant over the attacks on Rev. Wright, the second face comes 'round and gets all hypocritical. Yeesh, it's an invocation, and only means a nice round note to add to Warren's future dust jackets.
No wonder the gay rights movement is stuck in the mud, everyone thought it was suddenly okay to be passive-aggressive hand-wringers.
No wonder the gay rights movement is stuck in the mud, everyone thought it was suddenly okay to be passive-aggressive hand-wringers.
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I still stand by my prediction that if Obama does not pull of the greatest economic miracle in US history; he will be a one term President. Enjoy President Sarah Palin everyone, maybe President Rommney if we are lucky.....
You cannot piss off your base and expect to be re-elected. That goes for either party.
You cannot piss off your base and expect to be re-elected. That goes for either party.
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@4: Good thing his base does not consist solely of gay people or liberals, otherwise we would almost certainly have a President Palin in the next few weeks. And heck, 27% of gay folks wanted a McCain presidency anyway.
I like the choice of Warren, since Obama is not going to be President when Warren gives his invocation, but is certainly going to be President when the pro-GLBT Reverend Lowery gives his benediction. The symbolism is great, and amusingly lost on most gay people.
I like the choice of Warren, since Obama is not going to be President when Warren gives his invocation, but is certainly going to be President when the pro-GLBT Reverend Lowery gives his benediction. The symbolism is great, and amusingly lost on most gay people.
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Screw symbolism, AJ. Be thankful that you are not part of a minority that faces overt hatred every day of your life. There is no moral difference between homophobia and racism.
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@6: I'm gay and native american. I am also non-religious from a heavily religious family and hometown. I am also the only member of my family to not serve in the military and I am anti-war.
Assuming I'm straight and white is both homophobic and racist, oops.
"Screw symbolism", you say, "they want us to shut up" others shriek, and yet people expect evangelicals to simply vanish? Hypocrisy, much? It's like arming your enemies by saying "you, large group of americans that carried two elections in a row, you are now unwelcome to my political base".
Assuming I'm straight and white is both homophobic and racist, oops.
"Screw symbolism", you say, "they want us to shut up" others shriek, and yet people expect evangelicals to simply vanish? Hypocrisy, much? It's like arming your enemies by saying "you, large group of americans that carried two elections in a row, you are now unwelcome to my political base".
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@ 7,
Whatever, dude. This was a total asshole move by Obama.
I don't think he did it to piss us off, though this is amazingly cruel and insensitive; it seems obvious that he just doesn't care about the LGBT community.
There are other choices besides Jabba the Douchebag Master-Pastor that would've reached out to the evangelical community and been far less divisive.
Whatever, dude. This was a total asshole move by Obama.
I don't think he did it to piss us off, though this is amazingly cruel and insensitive; it seems obvious that he just doesn't care about the LGBT community.
There are other choices besides Jabba the Douchebag Master-Pastor that would've reached out to the evangelical community and been far less divisive.
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I believe Obama will support non-discrimination legislation including the U.N. declaration to legalise homosexuality which Bush has turned down (once again the only western country to do so). Then all this will be forgotten. I am disappointed just like everyone else about Warren, but I believe Obama when he says he wants to be about inclusion. And it seems to me that progressives were well aware of Obama's tendency toward religion of the more extreme kind. Rev. Wright is no prize either. And Obama, too, stated during the election that he was opposed to same sex marriage. That didn't seem to sway the left any.
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Am I the only person fucking sick of "straight liberals" telling gays and lesbians we are blowing this out of proportion?
Bottom line is we should be concerned that Obama does not get it. Seriously, Obama doesn't get how this is harmful to people.
Bottom line is we should be concerned that Obama does not get it. Seriously, Obama doesn't get how this is harmful to people.
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Vince @ 9,
People are pissed because we've been lied to and fucked over so many times by the Demoncrats. Deep down, this is probs an expression of the (increasingly justified) fear that Obama is gonna totally shut us out of the government. We're already being told that gay rights issues don't matter and won't be addressed until after 2010 at the earliest.
As I stated, there are other pastors out there who would've been fine choices. There's no fucking way he would have chosen a pastor that says blacks are rapists, criminals and pedophiles, for example.
People are pissed because we've been lied to and fucked over so many times by the Demoncrats. Deep down, this is probs an expression of the (increasingly justified) fear that Obama is gonna totally shut us out of the government. We're already being told that gay rights issues don't matter and won't be addressed until after 2010 at the earliest.
As I stated, there are other pastors out there who would've been fine choices. There's no fucking way he would have chosen a pastor that says blacks are rapists, criminals and pedophiles, for example.
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"There are other choices besides Jabba the Douchebag Master-Pastor that would've reached out to the evangelical community and been far less divisive."
Really? I can't think of a single pastor who supports gay rights that would be accepted or respected by the evangelical community. Who would you suggest?
Really? I can't think of a single pastor who supports gay rights that would be accepted or respected by the evangelical community. Who would you suggest?
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Hernandez @ 12,
Mel White immediately springs to mind--I'm not religious and don't follow the evangelical community--but I'm sure there are plenty of others. They just don't make the news.
Mel White immediately springs to mind--I'm not religious and don't follow the evangelical community--but I'm sure there are plenty of others. They just don't make the news.
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#12. I can't think of a single pastor who supports gay rights that would be accepted or respected by the evangelical community.
That's not the point. I don't need that, and I'm comfortably saying that most of us didn't need that. Hell, Obama doesn't support gay marriage and we voted for him anyway.
We don't need a liberal Unitarian. It would be nice, but it wasn't an absolute necessity. But what we don't need either is a hateful, cruel preacher who basically preaches violence against us. THAT'S what our problem is. Obama could have picked a conservative minister. We all probably expected that. Why did he pick a hateful one?
Anyone he would have chosen--it didn't need to be someone famous--we'd have looked him up and learned about him, and his conservative leanings would have been well-known and the base would have been happy and blah, blah, blah. There are plenty of conservative ministers out there who aren't hateful.
Yes, he has a gay-friendly pastor. The opposite of gay-friendly isn't hate. Hate doesn't provide "balance" to acceptance.
Obama has elevated this guy to Billy Graham's position. This is inexcusably irresponsible of him. I expected better from him.
That's not the point. I don't need that, and I'm comfortably saying that most of us didn't need that. Hell, Obama doesn't support gay marriage and we voted for him anyway.
We don't need a liberal Unitarian. It would be nice, but it wasn't an absolute necessity. But what we don't need either is a hateful, cruel preacher who basically preaches violence against us. THAT'S what our problem is. Obama could have picked a conservative minister. We all probably expected that. Why did he pick a hateful one?
Anyone he would have chosen--it didn't need to be someone famous--we'd have looked him up and learned about him, and his conservative leanings would have been well-known and the base would have been happy and blah, blah, blah. There are plenty of conservative ministers out there who aren't hateful.
Yes, he has a gay-friendly pastor. The opposite of gay-friendly isn't hate. Hate doesn't provide "balance" to acceptance.
Obama has elevated this guy to Billy Graham's position. This is inexcusably irresponsible of him. I expected better from him.
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