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News & ArtsFriday, December 19, 2008
Politics "A Lose-Lose For Obama"
Posted by Dan Savage on Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 11:45 AM
Rachel Maddow on Rick Warren:
1
Oh, Rachel. Rev. Wright preaches to Obama for years, and yet he's off limits-- Rev. Warren closes the Bush Administration with a quickie prayer and suddenly Obama is satan. Where's your messiah now, gay people?
The focus on this ignores both the amazingly vocal pro-gay Rev. Lowery (the first person to pray at a national ceremony under a newly minted President Obama) and the inclusion of the first gay group to EVER _EVER_ ___**EVER**___ march in an inaugural parade. I'm starting to think people were merely voting for the "D" rather than the person.
The focus on this ignores both the amazingly vocal pro-gay Rev. Lowery (the first person to pray at a national ceremony under a newly minted President Obama) and the inclusion of the first gay group to EVER _EVER_ ___**EVER**___ march in an inaugural parade. I'm starting to think people were merely voting for the "D" rather than the person.
4
Cato,
Obama ISN'T FUCKING PRESIDENT YET. He makes promises on his website but HE CAN'T DO ANYTHING UNTIL HE IS PRESIDENT.
Please make a note of it.
Obama ISN'T FUCKING PRESIDENT YET. He makes promises on his website but HE CAN'T DO ANYTHING UNTIL HE IS PRESIDENT.
Please make a note of it.
7
David @ 5,
As I stated in another thread, people are pissed because we've been lied to and fucked over so many times by the Demoncrats. Deep down, this is probs an expression of the (increasingly justified) fear that Obama is gonna totally shut us out of the government.
We're already being told that gay rights issues don't matter and won't be addressed until after 2010 at the earliest.
He can say whatever he wants on his website; what he actually does is what matters, and it sure as hell doesn't look good.
As I stated in another thread, people are pissed because we've been lied to and fucked over so many times by the Demoncrats. Deep down, this is probs an expression of the (increasingly justified) fear that Obama is gonna totally shut us out of the government.
We're already being told that gay rights issues don't matter and won't be addressed until after 2010 at the earliest.
He can say whatever he wants on his website; what he actually does is what matters, and it sure as hell doesn't look good.
8
I second Andrew. I can read what Obama WANTS to do. But Bill Clinton was all warm and fuzzy about the gays, too, and we got DOMA and DADT.
With friends like these. . .
With friends like these. . .
9
I think straight people don't have a leg to stand on with this issue. Sorry, but you don't. And reading this thread we know who the breeders are. Don't we?
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@7 - Your response is much more reasonable than Cato's. I can totally understand the frustration: Warren is a bigoted douchebag and you've been screwed six ways to sunday by just about every politician you've supported in the past. Welcome to being on the left in America. I just think that this move is being blown out of proportion. I agree that if Obama fails the gays, we need to all be in the streets about it. I just don't think the Warren thing signals failure. It's not a policy commitment. If Obama were to put gays on the back burner, or actively betray them with bad policy, that would be one thing, but that's not what this is. There's understandably a lot of emotion around this, but we need to see things clearly. See what Sullivan has to say:
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/th…
@9 - As a straight guy, living in Capitol Hill, I see where you're coming from. You feel this pain in a way that I can't. I hear you. But I too rejected my small-town close-minded fundamentalist parents and their religion and have been cast out from my family because of it. I have my own reasons to loathe Rick Warren and everything he stands for. But we need to look at this move for what it is and not mistake it for something that it isn't. Obama has repeatedly spoken out against this guy's stance on gays. If we're ever going to get anywhere in this country, it's not going to be by freezing out the bigots. We've got to win them over somehow, and it's not easy, and people's feelings get trampled on. It's one thing to invite a bigot to represent the 46% of people who didn't vote for Obama and listen to what they have to say. It's another thing to implement their policies. As long as we keep shutting them out they're going to keep resenting us.
So yeah, the minute Obama says or does anything that negatively affects gays, I'm on your side. I don't expect him to be perfect and we have to keep an eye on him to make sure he keeps his word. I just don't think this represents him breaking it just yet.
More...
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/th…
@9 - As a straight guy, living in Capitol Hill, I see where you're coming from. You feel this pain in a way that I can't. I hear you. But I too rejected my small-town close-minded fundamentalist parents and their religion and have been cast out from my family because of it. I have my own reasons to loathe Rick Warren and everything he stands for. But we need to look at this move for what it is and not mistake it for something that it isn't. Obama has repeatedly spoken out against this guy's stance on gays. If we're ever going to get anywhere in this country, it's not going to be by freezing out the bigots. We've got to win them over somehow, and it's not easy, and people's feelings get trampled on. It's one thing to invite a bigot to represent the 46% of people who didn't vote for Obama and listen to what they have to say. It's another thing to implement their policies. As long as we keep shutting them out they're going to keep resenting us.
So yeah, the minute Obama says or does anything that negatively affects gays, I'm on your side. I don't expect him to be perfect and we have to keep an eye on him to make sure he keeps his word. I just don't think this represents him breaking it just yet.
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All that said, I think it's high time Obama throws you guys a bone. Let's hope he makes a point of some big gesture - repealing DOMA or DADT? - his first month in office.
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DADT has a timeline for repeal-- that is more than anyone has given us regarding DADT _EVER_.
2010 Obama says, and being a Chicago democrat, he'll do what he says and say what he wants. I doubt he's suddenly cowed by having Rick Warren talk for a few seconds.
2010 Obama says, and being a Chicago democrat, he'll do what he says and say what he wants. I doubt he's suddenly cowed by having Rick Warren talk for a few seconds.
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@2,
He fought for anti-discrimination legislation in the Illinois and U.S. Senate. While it failed in Congress, it succeeded in Illinois. This is something you could have found out if you did a little googling, but I guess you'd rather whine.
He fought for anti-discrimination legislation in the Illinois and U.S. Senate. While it failed in Congress, it succeeded in Illinois. This is something you could have found out if you did a little googling, but I guess you'd rather whine.
14
Fierce? Really? He's trying to take our slang, now. Think Christian Siriano would describe this as "fierce?"
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As a straight woman and a future breeder, I DO have something to say on this issue. I am saddened and disappointed and feel that this is a mistake, that hopefully Obama will learn from. I hope the response that is occurring nationwide will let him know that he has the opportunity to become a legend for his advancement of human rights. My heart hurts right now.
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Okay, so Obama's choice doesn't signal that he's "cowed" by Rick Warren. Fine, having Warren speak at the inauguration doesn't indicate that Obama's all talk and no action.
But why pick Rick Warren? People say he can't afford to keep the evangelicals at arm's length.
But the opposite of keeping someone at arm's length isn't inviting him to speak at the inauguration.
But why pick Rick Warren? People say he can't afford to keep the evangelicals at arm's length.
But the opposite of keeping someone at arm's length isn't inviting him to speak at the inauguration.
17
@9 Please don't attack all of us straight people. I certainly can't entirely understand your hurt over this, but I can see the effect of denying an entire group of people their fundamental right of equality supposedly promised to us in this country on my friends and family members.
@10 What if someone asked you to take one for the team by giving up the right to raise children with your spouse or lover, to walk down the street holding her hand, to make medical decisions for that person, or to sit by the bedside of the person you love while she dies? It's offensive and obscene, and the choice of Rick Warren should be deeply upsetting to every person who believes in equal rights.
@10 What if someone asked you to take one for the team by giving up the right to raise children with your spouse or lover, to walk down the street holding her hand, to make medical decisions for that person, or to sit by the bedside of the person you love while she dies? It's offensive and obscene, and the choice of Rick Warren should be deeply upsetting to every person who believes in equal rights.
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