Friday, December 12, 2008
Homo Peter LaBarbera Wants Me
Posted by Dan Savage on Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 10:07 AM
Or he wants us—me and the boyfriend, together with him, in a great, big, greasy heap. What else could possibly explain the man's sudden obsession with my sex life? Peter unloads—he he, loads—about me to the Concerned Women for America. Good As You has the audio.
Now I haven't listened to the audio yet... and I don't have time at the moment. But quickly...
The Concerned Women are concerned about my efforts to make non-monogamy "more acceptable in the heterosexual community." Hm. It seems to me that there's an awful lot of non-monogamy going on in the heterosexual community right now. What I'd like to make "more acceptable" in all communities is honesty (about the desire to sleep with other people, even if you never act on it) and realism (about the likelihood that, over the multi-decade course of a marriage, someone will cheat). Because as I wrote in The Commitment, the four year old book from which Peter is drawing these "new and shocking" revelations about my sex life, I'm pretty darn conservative when it comes to marriage. I'm opposed to divorce, particularly when there are kids involved. Seeing as adultery—what "non-monogamy" goes by in the heterosexual community—is pretty darn common, I believe that we should all emulate the Clintons and construct our marriages in such a way that they can weather a little non-monogamy. Because, again, I'm a conservative when it comes to marriage—and it's always seemed to me that being realistic about non-monogamy would actually help to conserve more marriages. And isn't conserving marriage what we conservatives want?
Not all of us, it seems. Peter LaBarbera and the Concerned Women for America are out there every day encouraging heterosexual couples to enter into marriage with highly unrealistic expectations about lifelong fidelity, unrealistic expectations that contribute mightily to our high divorce rates. If LaBarbera and the CWfA want to undermine the institution of marriage—the foundational institution of our society! so important for the health and safety of our children!—that's their right. But I sleep better at night knowing that I'm doing what I can to bring our divorce rates down, save marriages, and protect our children.
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1
Just for the sake of clarity, couldn't they just rename their group Finger-wagging Bluenose Fussbudgets of America? Or maybe the All Up In Your Business Bureau?
2
Dan - You should take great pride in the fact that you are now the Scariest Faggot in the World to LaBarbera and the CWA. Congratulations!
9
Most divorcing couples I've known absolutely hated each other. Infidelity had nothing to do with it.
10
This is one issue I just can't agree with you on, Dan. Because I know from personal experience (nearly 40 years) that relationships are damaged by non-monogamy. It might be "realistic" to assume when couples commit to each other they are lying, but that doesn't make it right. And so what if it is idealistic to want monogamy forever, it's also idealistic to want gay marriage. I would never knowingly hurt the man I love by cheating on him (and yes, three-ways are cheating, too), and I would be hurt if he cheated on me. So why do it? The fact is, Dan, people who love each don't find ways to hurt one another, in fact, they do every thing they can to avoid it. And that goes for children, too. So I will give you a bit of your own sex advice; if you want your marriage to last, stop cheating.
12
Where does one start with this Peter LaBarbera? Putting aside his obsession with Dan, he says things like "Gay people want to stop God ordained marriage!" as if gay people don't have the right to their own religious beliefs. If I believe that God is fine with us queers getting hitched, who is this guy to deny me that belief? LaBarbera, like other anti-gay religious wing nuts want to deny homosexuals their religious freedom. Since when are religious beliefs up to a majority vote in this country?
Why do folks like Peter LaBarbera get to force their definition of God ordained marriage on us? Nobody is asking him to believe as we do. He won't be forced to marry a man, or attend a gay wedding. (Although, I bet he has fantasies of licking Dan's shoe, like in that ad posted earlier.) It's his right to believe that God hates fags if he wants, but when he says I have to live by his religious beliefs, I take exception. Even gay people get the right to believe in God in their own way, and not have it dictated to them from the masses.
Why do folks like Peter LaBarbera get to force their definition of God ordained marriage on us? Nobody is asking him to believe as we do. He won't be forced to marry a man, or attend a gay wedding. (Although, I bet he has fantasies of licking Dan's shoe, like in that ad posted earlier.) It's his right to believe that God hates fags if he wants, but when he says I have to live by his religious beliefs, I take exception. Even gay people get the right to believe in God in their own way, and not have it dictated to them from the masses.
15
Fidelity is an ideal but striving for it makes us better.
Saying 'it's too hard, the hell with even trying' doesn't.
(The same is true of all ideals we strive for.)
Saying 'it's too hard, the hell with even trying' doesn't.
(The same is true of all ideals we strive for.)
16
Savage, this may come as a shock to you, but NO ONE really cares what you think. You are not going to have one bit of impact on the majority of Americans who, you know, vote. Go back to breaking laws by trying to make those who disagree with you sick. You didn't hear? Savage's answer to those who oppose gay marriage is to purposefully infect them with the flu! Please go away, and take your aging-vagina-baseball mitt-looking face with you.
17
@ 15. I don't think strict fidelity is necessarily an ideal for which all couples should strive, but being honest to one another, and being realistic are. We are all human, and should accept that.
@16, um wow.
@16, um wow.
19
@10--YOUR relationships in the past may have been damaged by non-monogamy. That's valid. That doesn't make it valid, however, to deduce that ALL relationships are always damaged by non-monogamy. It isn't cheating if both people agree to it, openly, cheerfully, and honestly. Like everything else in one's sex life, it's about consent. Besides, everyone has different definitions of what "cheating" is. For you, a threesome is cheating; for many other people, it's not. Some people consider watching porn cheating, while others don't consider anything short of penetrative sex cheating.
What matters is what works for the relationship in question. There is no one right answer of what level of monogamy is perfect. Each couple needs to discuss boundaries, set limits, and conduct their relationships in a way that works for them.
What matters is what works for the relationship in question. There is no one right answer of what level of monogamy is perfect. Each couple needs to discuss boundaries, set limits, and conduct their relationships in a way that works for them.
20
@10. The fact is, Dan, people who love each don't find ways to hurt one another, in fact, they do every thing they can to avoid it.
You're right, but what does this have to do with what Dan has said about monogamy? Or in context to this blog post on Peter LaBarbera?
@16. Savage, this may come as a shock to you, but NO ONE really cares what you think.
Obviously, LaBarbera does. Obviously, you do too.
You're right, but what does this have to do with what Dan has said about monogamy? Or in context to this blog post on Peter LaBarbera?
@16. Savage, this may come as a shock to you, but NO ONE really cares what you think.
Obviously, LaBarbera does. Obviously, you do too.
21
Once again, the unrealistic idealism and expectations can leave many couples hating each other. People stray, face it, despite promises, hopes, vows and pledges. Whats next shouldn't be fighting and yelling and hating. That's most important if there are children.
22
@19,
You mean my relationship, I've only been in one. And yes, I suppose you are right, intellectually speaking, it's all about "consent." However, my advice was directed specifically at Dan, who is in a committed relationship with his partner and is raising a child. Now, perhaps Dan and his partner "negotiated" their commitment before they became a couple, but somehow I doubt it. They probably just fell in love. So here is my warning, and maybe it will apply to you, too, someday. Don't fool yourself into thinking you can "consent" to being hurt - it doesn't work that way. And don't think "negotiated" cheating won't damage your relationship - it will. My point is - why risk it? Monogamy isn't easy, but the alternatives (negotiated or not) are a lot worse.
You mean my relationship, I've only been in one. And yes, I suppose you are right, intellectually speaking, it's all about "consent." However, my advice was directed specifically at Dan, who is in a committed relationship with his partner and is raising a child. Now, perhaps Dan and his partner "negotiated" their commitment before they became a couple, but somehow I doubt it. They probably just fell in love. So here is my warning, and maybe it will apply to you, too, someday. Don't fool yourself into thinking you can "consent" to being hurt - it doesn't work that way. And don't think "negotiated" cheating won't damage your relationship - it will. My point is - why risk it? Monogamy isn't easy, but the alternatives (negotiated or not) are a lot worse.
23
It's all so strange to me...
I mean, aside from the usual dog-and-pony show of Peter LaBarbera, who isn't nearly as influential as his delusions of grandeur would imply...
Personally, monogamy is what I want. The man I end up marrying will, by virtue of having made it into the position of marrying me, will also want that.
However, reality shows that, straight or gay, not all people are like that. And it's not just men either. We have an archetype in our society of the man cheating on his wife, but the reality is that women cheat on their husbands all the time -- many of them just happen to cover it up better. [The commenter is thinking of a friend of his right now...]
But, for Peter and his band of merry men (and Concerned Ladies), honesty NEVER trumps ideology, so the mere concept that a couple might not need or want exclusive monogamy, or that some version of non-monogamy might not actually be damaging to some relationships...they can't handle that. You see, the status quo works better for them. On some level, they know that spouses cheat on each other all the time, and some of them probably have cheated themselves, but as long as it's taboo, they can sweep it under the rug and pretend it doesn't happen.
It's all so odd and indicative of deeply ingrained psychological deficiencies on the part of The Peter and Matty Barber and crew.
Whatever.
Personally, I just don't think it's anyone else's business what makes a marriage work. That's for a couple to figure out.
I mean, aside from the usual dog-and-pony show of Peter LaBarbera, who isn't nearly as influential as his delusions of grandeur would imply...
Personally, monogamy is what I want. The man I end up marrying will, by virtue of having made it into the position of marrying me, will also want that.
However, reality shows that, straight or gay, not all people are like that. And it's not just men either. We have an archetype in our society of the man cheating on his wife, but the reality is that women cheat on their husbands all the time -- many of them just happen to cover it up better. [The commenter is thinking of a friend of his right now...]
But, for Peter and his band of merry men (and Concerned Ladies), honesty NEVER trumps ideology, so the mere concept that a couple might not need or want exclusive monogamy, or that some version of non-monogamy might not actually be damaging to some relationships...they can't handle that. You see, the status quo works better for them. On some level, they know that spouses cheat on each other all the time, and some of them probably have cheated themselves, but as long as it's taboo, they can sweep it under the rug and pretend it doesn't happen.
It's all so odd and indicative of deeply ingrained psychological deficiencies on the part of The Peter and Matty Barber and crew.
Whatever.
Personally, I just don't think it's anyone else's business what makes a marriage work. That's for a couple to figure out.
24
@10,22: It's at least as valid to say that relationships are damaged by *expectations of monogamy* as by *non-monogamy*.
One of the reasons I stay with my gf is that she does not require that I be sexual with her alone; she feels the same. It only strengthens our relationship.
One of the reasons I stay with my gf is that she does not require that I be sexual with her alone; she feels the same. It only strengthens our relationship.
25
24
face it, sd;
your gf doesn't care if you stray cause you're not that good.
no loss.
whatever.
of course she feels the same.
if she's going to get any it will have to be on the side.
lover.
face it, sd;
your gf doesn't care if you stray cause you're not that good.
no loss.
whatever.
of course she feels the same.
if she's going to get any it will have to be on the side.
lover.
26
It all reminds me of alcohol in Muslim countries. If you can't see it, it isn't happening, so it's okay to make it illegal, but the wealthy and poor alike will still partake.
Hell, at parties there are screens hiding the booze that people go behind, drink, and emerge from.
My point is that strict ideologies beget mass self-delusion and end up with mass hypocrisy, undermining the goals of the ideology in the first place.
Hell, at parties there are screens hiding the booze that people go behind, drink, and emerge from.
My point is that strict ideologies beget mass self-delusion and end up with mass hypocrisy, undermining the goals of the ideology in the first place.
27
Hey, Mr "new editor, please", or @ 16 if you prefer,
I seriously doubt that you have a platform where more people are interested in what you say than Mr. Dan Savage does. He has a nationally syndicated column and a podcast, not to mention all his other accomplishments(ie constant television appearances on major shows)...what do you have? Dan Savage has made a life and career out of helping people....looks like you have made a hobby of attacking people needlessly and acting as if anyone cares what you say.
I seriously doubt that you have a platform where more people are interested in what you say than Mr. Dan Savage does. He has a nationally syndicated column and a podcast, not to mention all his other accomplishments(ie constant television appearances on major shows)...what do you have? Dan Savage has made a life and career out of helping people....looks like you have made a hobby of attacking people needlessly and acting as if anyone cares what you say.
28
27
RGL, careful-
if you leave your lips planted on
Dan's ass too long
they'll dry out and stick
and then when you pull them away
the skin will tear off.
ouch.
RGL, careful-
if you leave your lips planted on
Dan's ass too long
they'll dry out and stick
and then when you pull them away
the skin will tear off.
ouch.
29
@28. You know, I'll bet if we look in the archives, Dan's addressed this problem in one of his past columns.
30
@29
I bet you are right.
What good is it to have
the Exalted One among us
if we do not study
and learn
from His past pronouncements?
I will flog myself for penance,
then go study the Holy One's words.
I bet you are right.
What good is it to have
the Exalted One among us
if we do not study
and learn
from His past pronouncements?
I will flog myself for penance,
then go study the Holy One's words.
31
@24
I forgot to mention, gf also doesn't care if I bathe, brush my teeth or wipe. It strengthens what we got.
I forgot to mention, gf also doesn't care if I bathe, brush my teeth or wipe. It strengthens what we got.
32
@30. I'm sure that if you search the archives, you'll find helpful hints from Dan on how to flog yourself safely, while still experiencing the ultimate in pain/pleasure.
33
is anyone else disappointed that there aren't more posts from labarbera's fans here? i mean, HIS blog linked to this post yesterday. clearly he has no following. so sad. i was hoping for a good argument.
34
Whatever works for married couple is what works. My husband and I agreed that neither of us valued constant monogamy but we both valued honesty a great deal. Our marriage worked for ten + years until he died accidentally. We were rigorously honest with each other. Either could ask for and receive a period of monagamy if either needed it. I asked for monogamy only once - for two days. He never asked for it. We both played and enjoyed recreational sex. We also enjoyed making love to each other. This agreement worked beautifully for us. My grief counselor and my Mom both say we were more "married" than most straight couples they know. Should all couples live as we did? NO! Every couple should agree on what works for them and then live by the rules - honestly and faithfully.
36
I don't think exposing Dan as a young-boy-obsessed, straight boy-obsessed whore has anything to do with whether or not gays get married. Though it sure doesn't help his credibility.
We like our spokesmen and women to be role models. Yeah...
We like our spokesmen and women to be role models. Yeah...
37
@ 20, @ 30: Jade, I <3 you!
@ 10, @ 22, crazycatguy: I get that non-monogamy wouldn't work *for you*, or in a relationship you are in, but you can't make lofty statements that dictate behavior for anyone else. Besides, you've only had the one relationship. Not that that's bad, but it means you haven't had many kinds of interactions. I've had both monogamous & open relationships. The open ones worked fine. There was one time, one weekend, I felt a little jealous, but any lover I have sent into the arms of another has been above board, with health checks, no lying & NO drama. & the partner who got to play around was always so very grateful. ;) The one I'm in now is monogamous, but I am lucky, because my lover is very creative.
I don't think non-monogamy, if VERY CAREFULLY examined, discussed & negotiated between STABLE, LONG_TERM partners, weakens relationships. I think *lying* weakens relationships. Cheating too. & if we disagree, that's okay crazycatguy. But that's what works for YOU, not flat-out everyone else.
@ Dan: Dan...oh Dan, I know your job is to provoke. But, can we wait w/ pressing the reality of human's brains & their essential nonmonogamy, until AFTER there's more established gay marriage? Hmmm? Closed-mindedness is a many-headed hydra. If you're gonna be all National Spokesgay, let's get as close as we can to lopping off that one ugly head - bigotry - before we ask folks to contemplate the wilder side of their own desires. Note that I didn't say act on them, necessarily. People can only handle so much change at a time.
@ 10, @ 22, crazycatguy: I get that non-monogamy wouldn't work *for you*, or in a relationship you are in, but you can't make lofty statements that dictate behavior for anyone else. Besides, you've only had the one relationship. Not that that's bad, but it means you haven't had many kinds of interactions. I've had both monogamous & open relationships. The open ones worked fine. There was one time, one weekend, I felt a little jealous, but any lover I have sent into the arms of another has been above board, with health checks, no lying & NO drama. & the partner who got to play around was always so very grateful. ;) The one I'm in now is monogamous, but I am lucky, because my lover is very creative.
I don't think non-monogamy, if VERY CAREFULLY examined, discussed & negotiated between STABLE, LONG_TERM partners, weakens relationships. I think *lying* weakens relationships. Cheating too. & if we disagree, that's okay crazycatguy. But that's what works for YOU, not flat-out everyone else.
@ Dan: Dan...oh Dan, I know your job is to provoke. But, can we wait w/ pressing the reality of human's brains & their essential nonmonogamy, until AFTER there's more established gay marriage? Hmmm? Closed-mindedness is a many-headed hydra. If you're gonna be all National Spokesgay, let's get as close as we can to lopping off that one ugly head - bigotry - before we ask folks to contemplate the wilder side of their own desires. Note that I didn't say act on them, necessarily. People can only handle so much change at a time.
38
It's interesting the way some people claim to be able to speak for all couples, claiming that strict monogamy is the only way to have a relationship. Maybe it is for you, but don't speak for me, thank you.
If you look at the percentage of relationships (straight and gay) in which there is infidelity, and you are pinning all your relationship hopes and dreams on monogamy, odds are you are going to be disappointed and hurt by either your own actions, that of your partner.
If you look at the percentage of relationships (straight and gay) in which there is infidelity, and you are pinning all your relationship hopes and dreams on monogamy, odds are you are going to be disappointed and hurt by either your own actions, that of your partner.
39
Oh, you stupid faggots. I can only be grateful for AIDS, when you queers spread your buttcheeks and receive this rightful prize. You fags have too much PDS, (poopy dick syndrome), where all that shit on your dicks has gone into your bloodstream and rotted your brains. Hey fags, when you suck dick, so you ever wonder how many assholes it has been up? You are getting what you deserve, and all we can say is HA HA!
40
@33: i am a super out smokin hot lezbo with a lot of downtime at work. one of my favorite wastes of time is AFTAH. to me it's tragically comic and comically tragic. i would definately not call myself a fan of mr barbarella (la barbara oops freudian) personally, just a fan of his verson of gay life. i posted here because i want you to know that there aren't necessarily any actual fans. i AM a fan of mr savage. i've been following him forver and miss the days of "hey faggot". as for the greasy pile... i'll just have the t shirt.
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