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News & ArtsTuesday, December 9, 2008
News Homophobia Kills
Posted by Dan Savage on Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 10:19 AM
And it doesn't just kill gay people. NYT:
The two brothers from Ecuador had attended a church party and had stopped at a bar afterward. They may have been a bit tipsy as they walked home in the dead of night, arm-in-arm, leaning close to each other, a common tableau of men in Latino cultures, but one easily misinterpreted by the biased mind.Suddenly a car drew up. It was 3:30 a.m. Sunday, and the intersection of Bushwick Avenue and Kossuth Place in Bushwick, Brooklyn, a half-block from the brothers’ apartment, was nearly deserted — but not quite. Witnesses, the police said, heard some of what happened next.
Three men came out of the car shouting at the brothers, Jose and Romel Sucuzhanay — something ugly, anti-gay and anti-Latino. Vulgarisms against Hispanics and gay men were heard by witnesses, the police said. One man approached Jose Sucuzhanay, 31, the owner of a real estate agency who has been in New York a decade, and broke a beer bottle over the back of his head. He went down hard.
One of the two brothers—Jose Sucuzhanay—died of his injuries this morning. His assailants beat him with an aluminum baseball bat... because they thought he was gay.
1
You may be on to something this time. Remember how nobody would pay attention to AIDS until it started killing straight people?
5
second ecuatoriano to be killed in new york in the last 2 months. the anti gay, anti latino immigrant bigots are all over the place.
10
Quick! Call Pat Boone! I'm sure he'll be outraged at the hate not held in check against gays. Oh wait. Nevermind.
11
#8
DON'T THINK SO - BULLY BOYS WITH BATS - HARLY CHURCH RELATED - COMMON ATTACKERS OF GAY MEN OVER DECADES
NEED TO KEEP FACTUAL - EVEN WHEN TEMPTED TO BE CATTY
DON'T THINK SO - BULLY BOYS WITH BATS - HARLY CHURCH RELATED - COMMON ATTACKERS OF GAY MEN OVER DECADES
NEED TO KEEP FACTUAL - EVEN WHEN TEMPTED TO BE CATTY
12
@8 Not so fast. The story reads "... the assailants, described only as black men by the police, ..."
That should help the ol' prop 8 debate.
That should help the ol' prop 8 debate.
14
The saddest part is that the killers probably are gay. The worst bigots are always the closeted ones.
15
Sorry, @14, but I hate when people say things like that. We don't know ANYTHING about these attackers, let's find out who they are before we start playing Freud.
Get @2 a map.
Get @2 a map.
16
I am really suprised this would go down in Bushwick, not b/c its a community open to gays, but b/c its HEAVILY Hispanic, and I can't believe that Hispanic slurs being shouted out would not draw a response from those on the street, regardless of their disposition to homosexuals......last time I was in Bushwick I saw few blacks, more whites, but vast majority Hispanic. For what thats worth, which isn't much. Ugly story, obviously
18
This almost happened in Seattle a few years back, my friend was almost beaten to death with a lead pipe. He had a metal plate inserted in his head where his skull was crushed. These guys drive in from the suburbs in their SUVs to beat up people they suspect might be gay in our city. He also happened to be straight not that's just not the point. The point is how do we keep these thugs out of our city?
So... Toll Bridges?
So... Toll Bridges?
19
that's really sad. it's strange how different american culture is to absolutely be horrified by the sight of men being affectionate. i went to an international college with a lot of men from india, africa and south america and they were so warm and affectionate with each other all the time. at all of the parties they would be the ones dancing with each other and holding hands just like the american girls do with their friends. they're straight, but their culture is just different. it really freaked out a lot of the male american students and definitely opened my eyes to how beautiful male relationships can be. it's just not something we see very often here in the states.
20
Time to amp up the fucking outrage, people. Not only have you had your marriage rights taken away, you were relegated to second class citizens the moment your rights were put to a vote. Come-fucking-ON. I say "you" only because I live in Canada, and while it's not perfect here, I at least feel like my existence is as valid as that of someone who only sleeps with the opposite sex. You are not second-class, your sexuality and your rights are not up for debate or vote or veto. You don't need to be kept in check and regulated with special [anti]marriage laws that only apply to you. And when someone is murdered because he is suspected to have a bit of "the gay," enough is enough. I definitely place blame on the homophobes in power and the shitbags who attack people, but seriously people, pour into the fucking streets and demand your rights.
21
It is always extremely disconcerting to hear about this. I live in Brooklyn and for the vast majority of the time don't feel threatened in the slightest about my orientation. This certainly makes me think otherwise though. I would be curious to know which part of Bushwick it is, though. Bushwick is massive, and could be all manner of places. Something tells me this was an event that occurred far from anywhere most gay people would be likely to be out and about flaunting their gayness.
23
I used to live in the neighborhood and I'm glad I got out in one piece. I was subject to homophobic and/or race-based slurs and attacks almost weekly. It sucks living in constant fear of leaving one's home. Some advice to young gay men looking to move to NYC, but too poor to live in Manhattan: Try Queens first.
24
@14... i thought you were talking about The Killers for a second there, who happen to be Mormon, and often the subject of closeted gossip.
The saddest part is that the killers probably are gay. The worst bigots are always the closeted ones.
The saddest part is that the killers probably are gay. The worst bigots are always the closeted ones.
26
Perhaps they didn't reach out enough to their black assailants because, as we know from Prop 8, any homophobia in the black community is the gays' own fault.
28
20 - I know you're trying to help, but being a self-righteous prick to people who completely agree with you isn't very effective.
29
The article says the group also shouted "anti-latino vulgarisms". But Dan you only mention "homophobia" in your headline. Shocking. And this thread is now full of woe is me, gay people have it worse then anybody ever has or ever will. Makes me think homophobia is ok, if you guys weren't so selfish I might have a little sympathy.
30
We residents of big cities seriously need to step up and organize anti-hate-crime volunteer street patrols--like the Q Patrol used to be here, with teams trained in deescalation, etc., who regularly patrol neighborhoods with high incidences of hate crime reports and don't just step in when someone's attacked by violent racists, immigrant-bashers, or homophobes, but also take down license plates of folks who shout threats or hate speech from their cars and report those incidents and info to the police. And also forge alliances with the community to get people on the street aware of the issue of gay-bashing, immigrant-bashing, homeless-bashing, etc., and concerned about its impact. Is anyone doing that around here?
32
This is so sad.
And yes in some Latin American cultures people are much more physically affectionate than North Americans are. Depends on the country and city, but male friends may walk arm in arm, or may walk with arm around the other's shoulder. Women may hold hands etc. Body contact is much more common.
And then there are the countries where everyone greets each other hello and goodbye with a kiss. Men kiss men, women kiss women. I lived in Argentina for a while and remember having to get used to the fact that to leave a party of friends and even just acquaintances I'd have to kiss EVERYONE THERE on the cheek before leaving the room. Seemed weird at first, but later, it seemed really nice.
And yes in some Latin American cultures people are much more physically affectionate than North Americans are. Depends on the country and city, but male friends may walk arm in arm, or may walk with arm around the other's shoulder. Women may hold hands etc. Body contact is much more common.
And then there are the countries where everyone greets each other hello and goodbye with a kiss. Men kiss men, women kiss women. I lived in Argentina for a while and remember having to get used to the fact that to leave a party of friends and even just acquaintances I'd have to kiss EVERYONE THERE on the cheek before leaving the room. Seemed weird at first, but later, it seemed really nice.
33
@16,
It did happen at 3:30 in the morning. Even in Manhattan the street's pretty empty that late.
It did happen at 3:30 in the morning. Even in Manhattan the street's pretty empty that late.
34
@28,
self-righteous prick? Hardly. And if people "completely agreed" with me, they'd be out protesting and demanding their rights. I'm aware most people here agree that homophobia is awful, but I'm speaking more precisely about what people are doing about that. And resorting to insults and name-calling when all I've done is ask why the hell people aren't more outraged is far less helpful than trying to encourage protest. Thanks for the lesson on being effective, though...
self-righteous prick? Hardly. And if people "completely agreed" with me, they'd be out protesting and demanding their rights. I'm aware most people here agree that homophobia is awful, but I'm speaking more precisely about what people are doing about that. And resorting to insults and name-calling when all I've done is ask why the hell people aren't more outraged is far less helpful than trying to encourage protest. Thanks for the lesson on being effective, though...
35
I was walking with a friend just off Maryland Pkwy in Vegas a few years ago and a truck full of redneck-looking douchebags (probably from Alamo, NV, or St. George, Utah) rolled up alongside us and yelled threatening slurs ("fuck you your fucking faggots" etc.) and threatened to beat our asses. I think they were surprised when I accepted the challenge, and quickly drove off. Basically my friend and I looked unusual--I was dressed up and slightly "metrosexual" looking (i.e. well dressed) and my friend had a kind of punk/metal look going. It might have just been because were were unusual looking city folk and set off their general xenophobia radars, but I suspect they meant something more by the "faggot."
36
um, actually among just the people I know, there have been at least 3 incidents of completely unwarranted violent attacks in Bushwick & Bed Stuy lately. It has less to do with gays or latinos specifically and more to do with a gentrification resentment building. Young kids just go up and start a fight. Or just crack you in the back of the head with a bottle or punch you in the face and keep going.
Of the recent 3 incidents, 1 was a woman, and random violent assaults on women are actually very unusual in brooklyn. Most assaults on women are from people they know (ie husband, boyfriend, father, brother etc).
Of the recent 3 incidents, 1 was a woman, and random violent assaults on women are actually very unusual in brooklyn. Most assaults on women are from people they know (ie husband, boyfriend, father, brother etc).
37
Now that I think about it...it does seem off to overlook the Latino-hatred. The title of Dan's post could have been "Latinophobia kills" too.
38
also @ 30, in new york, only people belonging to each individual neighborhood can hope to patrol streets. If I, a young white woman, presumed to attempt to de-escalate something in Bushwick, very bad things would happen to me.
Also, one of the biggest problems in Brooklyn is that calling the police doesn't help.
Even when I do call the police about something, they either don't show up at all, or they show up and hassle some random innocuous group of kids on the street that had nothing to do with the incident. Or they show up and refuse to do anything.
And truthfully, having lived in Bed Stuy for more than 10 years now I have to say that even with all the shit that still happens, you cannot imagine how much safer and more tolerant it is than it was.
Also, one of the biggest problems in Brooklyn is that calling the police doesn't help.
Even when I do call the police about something, they either don't show up at all, or they show up and hassle some random innocuous group of kids on the street that had nothing to do with the incident. Or they show up and refuse to do anything.
And truthfully, having lived in Bed Stuy for more than 10 years now I have to say that even with all the shit that still happens, you cannot imagine how much safer and more tolerant it is than it was.
39
back in da day, bed stuy and bushwick were as bad as brownsville or north philly. ok, maybe not north philly.
40
@15
Don't kid yourself-
the killers were Downlow Black Homophobes!
Dan tried to warn you!
Nobody would listen and now somebody is dead.
I hope you're happy.
Don't kid yourself-
the killers were Downlow Black Homophobes!
Dan tried to warn you!
Nobody would listen and now somebody is dead.
I hope you're happy.
41
See? This is something to cry about.
The whiny.."they keep asking straight actors what it was like to kiss a guy" crap. Not so much.
The whiny.."they keep asking straight actors what it was like to kiss a guy" crap. Not so much.
43
34 - Except that people have been out protesting and demanding their rights. You talk like no one here is doing a damn thing.
You can tell Americans to pour into the streets and demand their rights, but it's ineffective when the Americans you're scolding are the ones who are already there.
You can tell Americans to pour into the streets and demand their rights, but it's ineffective when the Americans you're scolding are the ones who are already there.
44
@29:
Let's see: two innocent people are attacked randomly. Homophobic and racist comments are heard by witnesses. One of the attacked is now dead, the other hopitalized and all you can say is:
"Makes me think homophobia is ok, if you guys weren't so selfish I might have a little sympathy."
because the headline only referenced the the anti-gay comments?
Save your sympathy. You'll probably need it. It doesn't sound like you have any to spare.
Let's see: two innocent people are attacked randomly. Homophobic and racist comments are heard by witnesses. One of the attacked is now dead, the other hopitalized and all you can say is:
"Makes me think homophobia is ok, if you guys weren't so selfish I might have a little sympathy."
because the headline only referenced the the anti-gay comments?
Save your sympathy. You'll probably need it. It doesn't sound like you have any to spare.
45
@20: Living in Canada, I also feel a lot less like I'm in danger of being beaten to death, for whatever reason, straight or gay. This isn't just homophobia. There's something wrong with Americans that makes them kill each other.
46
43 - I never said no one was doing a damn thing. I disagree that I "talk like" that's the situation. And I certainly wasn't scolding. I'm not sure how you got that. I made sure to point out where I lay the blame, and it definitely wasn't at the feet of people being victmized. I look at protests that have happened around the world in the last few years (students in France over labour laws, kids in Greece [though I'm not advocating violence]) and that just doesn't seem to be happening in the US.
And again, I'm not going around calling people self-righteous pricks because of my immediate [mis]interpretation of the things they say. If anyone between the two of us is scolding, or has a negative self-centred attitude, it ain't me.
And again, I'm not going around calling people self-righteous pricks because of my immediate [mis]interpretation of the things they say. If anyone between the two of us is scolding, or has a negative self-centred attitude, it ain't me.
47
Canadians are sooo full of shit.
"There's something wrong with Americans that makes them kill each other. "
This from a country where a teen was beaten by a mob of teens last year.
a country where prostitutes are killed by a pig farmer and the cops dont do shit. a country where a married couple goes on killing sprees and a country with a colorful history of serial killers.
A country where natives are treated worse than garbage ( just like here)
A country that just last year was talking about the year of the gun when gun violence spiked.
Fuck u fucking fucks, regina has just as much murders as any american small town. vancouver has its share of crime. toronto is the closest thing u have to a big city.
And Canadian football sucks!
"There's something wrong with Americans that makes them kill each other. "
This from a country where a teen was beaten by a mob of teens last year.
a country where prostitutes are killed by a pig farmer and the cops dont do shit. a country where a married couple goes on killing sprees and a country with a colorful history of serial killers.
A country where natives are treated worse than garbage ( just like here)
A country that just last year was talking about the year of the gun when gun violence spiked.
Fuck u fucking fucks, regina has just as much murders as any american small town. vancouver has its share of crime. toronto is the closest thing u have to a big city.
And Canadian football sucks!
48
It is scary, and I think attacks need to be publicized no matter whom they happen to. My husband and I were gay-bashed on the island of Kawaii of all places, walking home from a restaurant. I'm a very tall lady and we were walking arm in arm--somehow this prompted a couple of redneck knuckleheads to throw a full beer can at my head while shouting "fucking fags" and peeling out. Not much has changed since 1992.
49
Dan Savage rocks. I live in NYC and this is a travesty. Also, Dan, I just watched you go up against Tony Perkins on Anderson Cooper's show and you kicked that evil, lying scum to the curb. THANK YOU!
50
As someone who is both latino and gay, I feel there are oppressive forces in this country that focus against gays and also anti-immigrant/anti-latino forces, and hopefully the good that come out of this is to have the two communities join forces against the hatred and oppression, instead of competing for attention on which group is hated more. Fight against homophobia and anti-latino sentiment. There has been a 40% increase in latino hate crimes in this country, since 2003, and it is expected to get worse. Plus, latinos are less likely to report crimes than white gays.
51
@21 - "Something tells me this was an event that occurred far from anywhere most gay people would be likely to be out and about flaunting their gayness."
So what, now I'm only allowed to walk arm-in-arm with my girlfriend in one of NY's gay ghettos? How is that "FLAUNTING" my gayness? How is sexuality anything to be FLAUNTED?! The right to love whom I choose, and to choose my own family, that is a RIGHT, not just a privilege. Exercising my human rights is hardly FLAUNTING.
Straights don't get beaten just for flaunting their affection towards their partners; does it somehow justify this atrocity that the men were thought to be gay? If I'm attacked outside of Park Slope, do I deserve it, because I dared to wander outside of the accepted area of gay-ness, where all the homophobes think they have kept track of us?
No. I'm not going to live in fear and without my human rights because I'm afraid I might offend someone's delicate sensibilities.
I'm here. I'm queer. And its times like these that I actually wish I DID carry a handgun.
So what, now I'm only allowed to walk arm-in-arm with my girlfriend in one of NY's gay ghettos? How is that "FLAUNTING" my gayness? How is sexuality anything to be FLAUNTED?! The right to love whom I choose, and to choose my own family, that is a RIGHT, not just a privilege. Exercising my human rights is hardly FLAUNTING.
Straights don't get beaten just for flaunting their affection towards their partners; does it somehow justify this atrocity that the men were thought to be gay? If I'm attacked outside of Park Slope, do I deserve it, because I dared to wander outside of the accepted area of gay-ness, where all the homophobes think they have kept track of us?
No. I'm not going to live in fear and without my human rights because I'm afraid I might offend someone's delicate sensibilities.
I'm here. I'm queer. And its times like these that I actually wish I DID carry a handgun.
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