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News & ArtsTuesday, December 9, 2008
City "Road-Dieting" Fauntleroy: The Comments
Posted by Erica C. Barnett on Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 5:42 PM
As I've written before, residents of West Seattle turned out en masse a couple of weeks ago to oppose a proposal to shrink Fauntleroy Way SW from four lanes to three, arguing that streets are for cars, not bikes. (Not surprisingly, the majority of those present were drivers from either West Seattle or Vashon Island, although a fair number of cyclists showed up as well.) The Seattle Department of Transportation just provided me with a copy of all the public comments submitted in writing at that meeting (which, as I've noted elsewhere, are not votes—he who screams the loudest does not automatically win), a selection of which I've reproduced (in some cases editing slightly for spelling) below. Taken together, the 109 written comments constitute an interesting dialectic—illustrating that no solution can make everyone happy, and that cyclists' and drivers' perceived needs will never really intersect. Also—and I say this as a journalist and profligate note-taker—I am shocked at the current state of penmanship in America.
The comments:
We do not need bicycle lanes on Fauntleroy Way—somebody will get killed. Bicycles have no business on Fauntleroy.
This is the worst idea in the history of the DOT. It would create a very large backup at the intersection of Fauntleroy and Alaska, including both directions, If I were a bicyclist I would not take my life by riding on Fauntleroy. The ferry traffic is too fast paces as the rush to catch their boat. Fauntleroy does need to be repaved, though.
Thank goodness! Bicyclists in W. Seattle will have a safer route to get to work and play, and more cyclists will be interested in trying bike commuting. Thanks!
Drivers are very good about moving over for bicycles and there are almost no left turners to worry about. If the lanes are reduced to only one in each direction the congestion will be terrible.
I would love to ride my bike down Fauntleroy, but traffic is too heavy. Maybe this will encourage people to use public transportation more, carpool or bike. We need less cars on the road.
Penny-wise and pound foolish! Makes more sense to ENFORCE SPEED LIMITS and ticket jaywalkers... I suggest you repave the street AND make a separate bike lane on the sidewalk!
A center turn lane would benefit cars and pedestrians trying to cross what has been a very busy speedway. Anything that would reduce speed on Fauntleroy would be great.
We need to have a quick way to move people from the ferry (as well as others in West Seattle). Taking away lanes to allow a few bicycles to have a dedicated lane is unfair.
Anything that slows down traffic on this stretch is a good thing for safety.
This plan is full of shit! Back to the drawing board!
Bicycles pay NO TAX they must not have priority over autos, trucks that do.
I commute to Ballard from the Endolyne neighborhood and the longest part of my commute is getting to the freeway entrance at 35th & Fauntleroy. This will only make my commute longer and no I can't take the bus or ride my bike.
Sure safety is a concern—but is this the only idea you have? What about having only one side of street parking (or none)? What about increasing the roadway width?
Turn so-called "parking strips" into true parking strips for cars. I'll personally help move (transplant) small trees or even cut down older trees to accommodate all the cars parked on both sides of the street. This frees up 2 lanes pronto—PLEASE CONSIDER. Let's change the law if necessary.
Reducing lanes slows up traffic and YOU KNOW IT! Be reasonable and listen to WE THE PEOPLE!
I have lived in West Seattle for 23 years. I never travel on Delrdige because it is 2 lanes and you always get behind someone going twenty-five mph and you have to pass them.
I'm totally in favor with the proposed plan. Speeds on this corridor are too fast above the speed limit and there is no good bike route through this area except residential streets that do not have street lighting.
The volume of traffic as it currently exists during peak hours is too great and will be delayed by at least a minute due to this change. One minute times the number of commuters is a lot of time.
Decrease Fauntleroy speed limit to 30 MPH for the entire boulevard.
I've met people here tonight from the other side of Fauntleroy that I didn't know existed! They are on the other side of that great gulf! Calmer streets = community. Calm traffic!
1
Indeed, reeding alot of the postes on the Web wood have ani one in shock. Is it ani wunder Amercans are no longer leeders on the werld seen? And I'm all for bike lanes.
2
Remember all those other times The Stranger encouraged everyone to attend public hearings and have their say? Just kidding! Public comment is a waste of time and nobody listens to the cranks who go to those things. All those times Dominc Holden told his readers to show up at a design review meeting? Kidding! That time when The Stranger trooped half the kids in town to city hall to denounce the Teen Dance Ordinance? Also kidding!
Public comment: Stupid and wrong. Everyone should shut up. Shut up now.
Public comment: Stupid and wrong. Everyone should shut up. Shut up now.
3
That last comment really is true. Fauntleroy is calmer and much more bike friendly south of Morgan. I remember when the stretch between Morgan and the ferry dock was 4 lanes and it was hell for bikes and peds. You actually increase lanes with a revision of the pattern (2 bike, 3 car).
4
I want to slap NO TAX with my penis. My property tax subsidies the SLUT, the Ferry and that fucking road I don't drive on. Oh and the sales tax I paid for my bike and not to mention my federal taxes. I bet even a cut of my social security is supporting that wicked moron.
5
As one who values accuracy over faux civility, I'd say the comment that the plan was full of shit was dead on.
7
The only way to get adequate bicycle resources -- resources the majority of Americans approved of -- is to create an independent agency whose job it is to fight specifically for bike-pedestrian access.
Once you have a building full of bureaucrats, whose self interest depends on expanding their parvenu -- we'll get real bike ways and walkways.
Once you have a building full of bureaucrats, whose self interest depends on expanding their parvenu -- we'll get real bike ways and walkways.
8
I understand the concern over gridlock, but people are worried about being forced to slow down (to the speed limit, presumably) and seeing their commutes increase by one minute? Fuck them.
11
why can't bikes follow a signed route mostly through non arterial streets?
Better to get more pie than to fight over size of slices.
Better to get more pie than to fight over size of slices.
12
As a resident of WS, the bigger problem is the lack of transportation alternatives besides a few bus lines that go downtown and driving in and out WS via the west seattle bridge. That being said, I'm not surprised that people are complaining about getting squeezed by the potential subtraction of a driving lane. For christsakes, give us some light rail to make it easier for us to get around so we don't end up giving much of a damn about losing a lane and don't give us shit about making the choice of living in west seattle. As taxpayers, we've got as much of a right to have our transportation needs respected as the residents of capitol hill or the U District.
14
How 'bout we just demolish the Fauntleroy ferry dock? Getting ride of the Vashon commuters would make that street a lot more pleasant. If they really want off that dismal island so badly, run the ferries to pier 52 downtown.
16
@6,
Right-O, then pal.
So when the City Planners show up and invite you to a hearing - and piously swear up and down that they don't have a preset agenda and/or they haven't made up their minds and still invite community input, only to subsequently reject it out of hand - we're all supposed to be nice and polite after it's patently obvious we've been lied to?
Um, not to be mean or direct or unduly honest or anything untoward like that, would you pretty please go ride a long bike off of a short pier?
Right-O, then pal.
So when the City Planners show up and invite you to a hearing - and piously swear up and down that they don't have a preset agenda and/or they haven't made up their minds and still invite community input, only to subsequently reject it out of hand - we're all supposed to be nice and polite after it's patently obvious we've been lied to?
Um, not to be mean or direct or unduly honest or anything untoward like that, would you pretty please go ride a long bike off of a short pier?
17
@14, would you really like to compete for housing in Seattle with all those people from Vashon -- as well as the commuters from Southworth, who everyone seems to have forgotten (as usual).
It sounds petty to complain about a minute added to one's commute, but a minute or two added to a ferry commuter's bus commute can lead to a missed ferry, which can add a couple of hours onto our already long commutes.
I'm all for bike lanes, but whatever the solution, we need to have the buses running as close to schedule as possible. And some more coordination between bus and ferry schedules would help, too.
It sounds petty to complain about a minute added to one's commute, but a minute or two added to a ferry commuter's bus commute can lead to a missed ferry, which can add a couple of hours onto our already long commutes.
I'm all for bike lanes, but whatever the solution, we need to have the buses running as close to schedule as possible. And some more coordination between bus and ferry schedules would help, too.
18
I have been driving or riding buses on Fauntleroy Way SW for 32 years now, at all hours and under all kinds of conditions.
SDOT's plan will be a clusterfuck of the first magnitude. They are claiming, with a straight face, that they can cram ten pounds of shit into a five-pound bag, and that the bag will not burst.
I have said this to their faces, and I say it again here: Eric Widstrand and Peter Lagerwey have no credibility whatever. I do not quarrel with their data. I do quarrel with their assumptions and their conclusions.
Population will grow along this corridor. No one disputes that. With those people will come more cars. This will happen whether the Erica C. Barnetts of the world like it or not.
It is only a matter of time until daily traffic on Fauntleroy exceeds the 20,000-car benchmark over which roads do not go on "diets." Widstrand had the gall to dispute this. It was all I could do not to laugh in his face.
The ferry dock isn't going anywhere. Give it up, @ 14. WSF has said this already. And Southworth ferries aren't going downtown, either. Colman Dock is maxed out. Would you disgorge all those cars into downtown traffic? With your precious idiotic "surface option?"
Fauntleroy needs to remain two lanes in each direction, period. Everybody has experienced driving behind some fucker talking on a cell phone who is driving 5 to 10 mph below the speed limit, whatever that speed limit is. There has to be a lane to get around them.
Is it unsafe for bicycles? Absolutely yes. Does it need to be made safer for bicycles? Certainly.
There's only one way to achieve that -- remove the on-street parking in the S-curves and put bike lanes there, both directions. They'd be nice and wide. As for the straightaways, paint sharrows and be done with it. Put in more pedestrian-operated stoplights to slow the traffic down.
I drive 35, the posted speed limit, because the road surface is so fucked up that you risk a front-end alignment if you go any faster. This is not about being able to speed. This is about just trying to drive at the posted speed limit.
I'd gladly settle for a 30-mph speed limit if they would keep that second lane in each direction. But I have no confidence in this most fucked of all city departments to keep our traffic flowing smoothly.
More...
SDOT's plan will be a clusterfuck of the first magnitude. They are claiming, with a straight face, that they can cram ten pounds of shit into a five-pound bag, and that the bag will not burst.
I have said this to their faces, and I say it again here: Eric Widstrand and Peter Lagerwey have no credibility whatever. I do not quarrel with their data. I do quarrel with their assumptions and their conclusions.
Population will grow along this corridor. No one disputes that. With those people will come more cars. This will happen whether the Erica C. Barnetts of the world like it or not.
It is only a matter of time until daily traffic on Fauntleroy exceeds the 20,000-car benchmark over which roads do not go on "diets." Widstrand had the gall to dispute this. It was all I could do not to laugh in his face.
The ferry dock isn't going anywhere. Give it up, @ 14. WSF has said this already. And Southworth ferries aren't going downtown, either. Colman Dock is maxed out. Would you disgorge all those cars into downtown traffic? With your precious idiotic "surface option?"
Fauntleroy needs to remain two lanes in each direction, period. Everybody has experienced driving behind some fucker talking on a cell phone who is driving 5 to 10 mph below the speed limit, whatever that speed limit is. There has to be a lane to get around them.
Is it unsafe for bicycles? Absolutely yes. Does it need to be made safer for bicycles? Certainly.
There's only one way to achieve that -- remove the on-street parking in the S-curves and put bike lanes there, both directions. They'd be nice and wide. As for the straightaways, paint sharrows and be done with it. Put in more pedestrian-operated stoplights to slow the traffic down.
I drive 35, the posted speed limit, because the road surface is so fucked up that you risk a front-end alignment if you go any faster. This is not about being able to speed. This is about just trying to drive at the posted speed limit.
I'd gladly settle for a 30-mph speed limit if they would keep that second lane in each direction. But I have no confidence in this most fucked of all city departments to keep our traffic flowing smoothly.
19
I thought "penmanship" referred to a person's actual handwriting - isn't this just poor grammar and punctuation?
21
The most sane guy was the one that suggested enforcing the current speed limit. Odd that it's not in the city's plans.
22
@16 and 18
Your tales of automobile Armageddon are way overblown. Fauntleroy doesn't work well for cars, peds, bikes or the neighborhood right now. You two may not care because it appears your highest value is getting to your destination in the shortest amount of time in your automobile.
Once again, this is only PAINT. If you two fabulous gentlemen are right about the effects, the street can be returned to the current configuration. But if you are wrong we will have a much better street.
And if you are late for your ferry, you should leave earlier.
Your tales of automobile Armageddon are way overblown. Fauntleroy doesn't work well for cars, peds, bikes or the neighborhood right now. You two may not care because it appears your highest value is getting to your destination in the shortest amount of time in your automobile.
Once again, this is only PAINT. If you two fabulous gentlemen are right about the effects, the street can be returned to the current configuration. But if you are wrong we will have a much better street.
And if you are late for your ferry, you should leave earlier.
23
Westside @ 22 says:
People who work for a living will understand that quitting time is when the boss says it is.
Only the terminally naive would believe that once this roadway was restriped, we could ever get the former configuration back.
I already suggested ways to make this roadway work better for bicyclists and pedestrians. If they want to put up a robo-radar speed trap, that's OK with me, too.
But the notion that Fauntleroy "doesn't work well" is certainly not an opinion that I share, especially when the alternatives are far worse.
The proposed restriping absolutely will cause traffic jams every single time a ferry discharges traffic. There will be 10-15-minute backups at Morgan Junction during the morning rush hour. How in heaven's name is this in any way acceptable? How can they even consider this, and lie about it to people who know better, with a straight face?
And if you are late for your ferry, you should leave earlier.
People who work for a living will understand that quitting time is when the boss says it is.
Only the terminally naive would believe that once this roadway was restriped, we could ever get the former configuration back.
I already suggested ways to make this roadway work better for bicyclists and pedestrians. If they want to put up a robo-radar speed trap, that's OK with me, too.
But the notion that Fauntleroy "doesn't work well" is certainly not an opinion that I share, especially when the alternatives are far worse.
The proposed restriping absolutely will cause traffic jams every single time a ferry discharges traffic. There will be 10-15-minute backups at Morgan Junction during the morning rush hour. How in heaven's name is this in any way acceptable? How can they even consider this, and lie about it to people who know better, with a straight face?
24
They're going to need bicycles during the massive traffic jams when they tear the Viaduct down for at least 3-5 years.
The protesters had better rethink their positions.
The protesters had better rethink their positions.
26
I work for a living too. And when I stay late, I miss my bus. Last I checked, living on Vashon was a choice, not a requirement. We all have to live with the pluses and minuses of our neighborhood.
The Vashon ferry can carry 140 cars max. Not all head up Fauntleroy, although most do. Fauntleroy is already one lane for the first two miles. Cars will move through in a pack under any scenario.
The Vashon ferry can carry 140 cars max. Not all head up Fauntleroy, although most do. Fauntleroy is already one lane for the first two miles. Cars will move through in a pack under any scenario.
27
@ 26:
This affects more people who don't commute from Vashon than it does people who do. It's not just about the ferry.
This affects more people who don't commute from Vashon than it does people who do. It's not just about the ferry.
28
@19: No, I meant penmanship. These were all from hand-written forms, and many were completely illegible.
29
Seriously Ivan, FUCK YOU, its not my problem you chose to live in some cheap ass rambler in vashon, and you somehow think you have the right to shit all over my neighborhood because you might be late otherwise. I don't come down to your work and slap the dick out of your mouth. I don't need your stupid island living ass telling me that my wife and kids don't need a crosswalk because it will slow you down.
30
@30,
He was talking about the pure idiocy of eliminating a traffic lane on a road that carries close to 17,000 cars a day, not whether or not a crosswalk should be added.
He was talking about the pure idiocy of eliminating a traffic lane on a road that carries close to 17,000 cars a day, not whether or not a crosswalk should be added.
31
@17, you're more than welcome to come live in Seattle. I'm 100% in favor of more density in the city. That's what cities are for.
@18, I know the ferry dock isn't going anywhere. And the boats aren't going to run to pier 52. We're stuck with them at Fauntleroy. But the "no one can try anything different because it might add one minute to my commute" argument is pretty weak. @26 is right, we all make our choices, and if your choice has been to commute down Fauntleroy for the past 32 years then more power to you. But that doesn't mean that the status quo need be preserved for your benefit.
@18, I know the ferry dock isn't going anywhere. And the boats aren't going to run to pier 52. We're stuck with them at Fauntleroy. But the "no one can try anything different because it might add one minute to my commute" argument is pretty weak. @26 is right, we all make our choices, and if your choice has been to commute down Fauntleroy for the past 32 years then more power to you. But that doesn't mean that the status quo need be preserved for your benefit.
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