Monday, December 8, 2008
Homo / Religion Gay People Exist...
Posted by Dan Savage on Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 2:32 PM
...and some people out there actually, kinda, sorta like us. I know, I know: it's enough to blow your mind, huh? It's also enough to get your artworks yanked from a student show at Utah's Brigham Young University.
Says the artist...
Apparently the topic of homosexuality is a bit much for the BYU audience and my part of our Fine Art Classes show was taken down today. It seems that censorship is favored over support and love. This really saddens me. I found out because a friend of mine went to the show and said that my peices had been removed and the show had been rearranged.
The show was rearranged so that no one who attended would realize that the works on display had been censored for political/religious reasons. So... shhh. Don't tell anyone.
The student artist took pictures of openly gay BYU students—openly gay and openly ballsy—and a companion portrait of a supportive friend or family member. The artist didn't label the portraits; you don't know who in each pair of portraits is the fearsome, terrible, ungodly gay, and who is the tragically deluded enabler of evil—excuse me, "the supporter." You can see the pictures without the big red "censored" here. But they deserve a wider viewing—hey, maybe the Salt Lake City Weekly ("We Not All Crazy Bigots Down Here, You Know!") could put them on its cover.
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3
hmmm... me thinks some BYU students are going to get expulsion notices.
(which upon further reflection, is not such a bad thing.)
(which upon further reflection, is not such a bad thing.)
5
It's easy to move away to a big liberal city and live your life how you see fit. But it takes a lot of courage to stay in a place you might love surrounded by bigoted people and live your life how you see fit.
Good for these students. The more a part of the world, the less power the hate mongers have.
Good for these students. The more a part of the world, the less power the hate mongers have.
7
Totally off-topic, but there's a big banner ad for Silver Platters at the top of Slog that misspells the word "indepenent" (as they put it). It's driving me even crazier than the Mormons do.
8
Wow. This story is almost too bigoted to be true. It almost makes me think that there is some fact that we don't know here.
But that is just wishful thinking I suppose. I can't believe they took it down without even consulting him first!
But that is just wishful thinking I suppose. I can't believe they took it down without even consulting him first!
9
wow, this reminds me of Federal Way school district's policy of not allowing any mention of homosexuality in curriculum or school activities. fortunately, I think they have since removed the policy.
as everyone knows, once you hear that gay people exist or if you look on of them in the eye you get turned gay!
as everyone knows, once you hear that gay people exist or if you look on of them in the eye you get turned gay!
10
In times of papers dying the internet has become so crucial to survive. Slog does a great job of reaching a huge audience by posting stories that everyone cares abut. Just kidding, only queers care about 80% of this shit.
12
I'd like to see a pic of those boys without that big red stamp. Some of them look like they have potential.
13
It's a fun game to play...which one's gay?
Click through to his site to play.
1. Left
2. Tough one...I'll say left.
3. Right.
Click through to his site to play.
1. Left
2. Tough one...I'll say left.
3. Right.
14
Sweet, maybe there should be a protest...since this is the only subject worthy of protest and getting upset about according to the Stranger.
15
I'm not into art much, but I like this kid's idea... if you can't tell gays and straights apart, are they really any different? Too bad the people who actually need to see it never will.
Reason # 88,561 why I will never refer someone to BYU.
Reason # 88,561 why I will never refer someone to BYU.
17
Given all post-election anti-Mormon outrage, it's easy to look at this and focus on the fact that yes, Mormons in general are still not fond of homosexuals.
But beyond that, and - in my opinion - more importantly, this is a great project. A good idea executed brilliantly (read his explanation of focus, etc. on the other side of the link in the post if you haven't already).
As was mentioned on Slog a few days ago, as soon as something is censored or banned, it becomes more sought after... Perhaps BYU's censorship can help this project reach the wider audience it deserves?
But beyond that, and - in my opinion - more importantly, this is a great project. A good idea executed brilliantly (read his explanation of focus, etc. on the other side of the link in the post if you haven't already).
As was mentioned on Slog a few days ago, as soon as something is censored or banned, it becomes more sought after... Perhaps BYU's censorship can help this project reach the wider audience it deserves?
18
Hey, Dan - here's a SLC Weekly story about an anti-Prop 8 rally: http://slweekly.com/index.cfm?do=article…
19
@13 & @16 - Gay kid's on the left for the one Dan posted. Even though many straight folks would choose the one on the right because he has "softer" facial features, the kid on the left has The Gay Hair.
20
And, yes, it sucks that something this innocuous and lacking in any "ick factor" got censored, but the fact that it has a quasi-political message I'm sure made it seem more dangerous in the eyes of the BYU folks. Sheesh. But you know what? We're gonna have to put up with foolishness like this for a good while longer, I'm afraid.
21
BYU is crazy. Growing up in Montana i knew another gay kid in his twenties who was hooked up to electrodes at BYU and shown images of gay porn and shocked, he still has some scars from it. this would have been done in the 90's too. Not that long ago.
22
BYU is so bizarre - what a fucking crock to censor this - I had hope for pubic hair at least.
Shitheads, no - do not go there - the whole place must be rift with this control fetish.
Juk.
Shitheads, no - do not go there - the whole place must be rift with this control fetish.
Juk.
23
Is the artist really all that surprised? I grew up in Provo, and it's very clear that BYU censored art shows (a traveling Rodin exhibit had many pieces removed for the BYU showing) and has a student code of conduct which is clear on it's prohibition of homosexual behavior. I don't know if I think the artist is brave or stupid. Maybe both.
27
@10..I think you're kidding, but just in case you're not, I'm straight and I care deeply about these things. I know many non-queer persons who also care deeply. When any one human being is diminished, all of humanity is diminished.
@23..I think the artist was brave, because I'm sure he knew he'd get some sort of backlash for this piece. (Which was excellent.) But isn't that what art is supposed to do? Get people talking and thinking. And change doesn't happen without those brave enough to go out on a limb for what they believe in. The censorship is unfair, but if students at this particular institution know going in that they have to follow these "codes of conduct" then I'm sure he knew what he was up against. I think brave, possibly naive, but not stupid.
@23..I think the artist was brave, because I'm sure he knew he'd get some sort of backlash for this piece. (Which was excellent.) But isn't that what art is supposed to do? Get people talking and thinking. And change doesn't happen without those brave enough to go out on a limb for what they believe in. The censorship is unfair, but if students at this particular institution know going in that they have to follow these "codes of conduct" then I'm sure he knew what he was up against. I think brave, possibly naive, but not stupid.
29
@21: *Shiver* They probably borrowed some Mormon "apostle"'s (or the BYU President's) e-stim apparatus to do the shocks.
31
Everyone of the students, supporters and the gay ones will probably be expelled and excommunicated.
32
A(nother) pathetic attempt to draw attention to ones self.
Everyone knows the rules at BYU.
This is about "oh, look at poor oppressed gay me. look at me! LOOK AT ME!"
Everyone knows the rules at BYU.
This is about "oh, look at poor oppressed gay me. look at me! LOOK AT ME!"
34
The Mormon Church still uses aversion therapists, they are just more careful about how they are recommended.
35
33
exactly, we can hope that they will get away from that cult. Maybe the jolt will be enough to clear out years of brainwashing
exactly, we can hope that they will get away from that cult. Maybe the jolt will be enough to clear out years of brainwashing
37
this has more to do with just the mormon church people everywhere judge and this just makes you think. Look at #13 it makes you wonder and then who knows, and DOES IT EVEN MATTER? Discrimination is everywhere and just because you don't know for certain which one is gay means what?
39
I'm a little surprised about how tame these comments were. I was expecting to hear all the dirty things that SLOG posters usually thought about young gay boys.
40
@23. The honor code prohibits homosexual activity, but not identifying as a homosexual. This was clarified last year. This exhibit did not encourage homosexual activity, but simply tried to give notice to the community that there are homosexual students attending BYU, and that there is no real way to identify them.
see: http://honorcode.byu.edu/index.php?optio…
see: http://honorcode.byu.edu/index.php?optio…
42
If they're expelled, they should try Westminister down the road. My friend, the 5' dancing gay cowboy with a snap-up (instead of button-up) shirt found a very supportive environment there.
43
I live in Utah (with my openly gay brother and his partner) and many of our friends go to BYU. I've been on campus for church activities (since technically, I'm baptized in the LDS religion, though I've been inactive for the past 5 years and certainly not getting back into it any time soon), and I'm not that surprised that it's been censored out. BYU's obviously a private university and has the rights to censor and prohibit things on campus. But I'm really glad and proud that this artist entered this piece in the show! I've only met one gay guy that attends BYU (who was closeted from his family and many of his friends), so definitely, props to these people who are putting themselves out there!!!
44
I attended high school across the street from BYU and used to skip classes to check out shows in the galleries on campus. I remember when a VERY tame exhibit about rape was censored back in the 90s. I think it was called the Clothesline Project or something...
Mormons love any damn excuse to fee righteous, and they love it even more if they can get a little persecution out of the deal. This latest act of censorship was just more cream in their pie.
And the Purple Turtle was good, but could anything beat the mushy spaghetti from the Bamboo Hut? Fuck no!
Mormons love any damn excuse to fee righteous, and they love it even more if they can get a little persecution out of the deal. This latest act of censorship was just more cream in their pie.
And the Purple Turtle was good, but could anything beat the mushy spaghetti from the Bamboo Hut? Fuck no!
45
I am one of the eight BYU students that was photographed for this project. I'd love to talk to Dan Savage and give my story, but I could be kicked out of BYU for "advocating" homosexuality. As a senior, it would be bad to be kicked out and it makes little sense to transfer.
Some have asked why a gay man would attend BYU in the first place since it is one of the top 10 most discriminatory schools towards gays according to the Princeton review. I went to BYU because I didn't want to be gay and I thought BYU could make me straight.
After going through BYU's "gender affirmative therapy" and other experiences (like an LDS mission) I found that I was still gay. I realized that it wasn't going away, and after a lot of soul searching, I came to accept my sexual orientation for what it was.
My life before this acceptance was hell. I participated in Michael's photography project because I thought his project could reach out to others who were struggling to accept their orientation. I felt it sent the message that A. It's ok to acknowledge/accept the fact that you are gay and B. There are people at BYU who will support you. My participation in the project was safe because school policy states, "One's stated same-gender attraction is not an Honor Code issue."
For the record, this project had the complete support of BYU's art department. Several BYU faculty members fought to keep the show up, and expressed disappointment when the administration took it down. I am proud to have participated in the project and hope that others at BYU struggling to accept themselves can find the peace that I found.
Some have asked why a gay man would attend BYU in the first place since it is one of the top 10 most discriminatory schools towards gays according to the Princeton review. I went to BYU because I didn't want to be gay and I thought BYU could make me straight.
After going through BYU's "gender affirmative therapy" and other experiences (like an LDS mission) I found that I was still gay. I realized that it wasn't going away, and after a lot of soul searching, I came to accept my sexual orientation for what it was.
My life before this acceptance was hell. I participated in Michael's photography project because I thought his project could reach out to others who were struggling to accept their orientation. I felt it sent the message that A. It's ok to acknowledge/accept the fact that you are gay and B. There are people at BYU who will support you. My participation in the project was safe because school policy states, "One's stated same-gender attraction is not an Honor Code issue."
For the record, this project had the complete support of BYU's art department. Several BYU faculty members fought to keep the show up, and expressed disappointment when the administration took it down. I am proud to have participated in the project and hope that others at BYU struggling to accept themselves can find the peace that I found.
47
#32...what is truly pathetic is your acceptance of the rules - some rules are just meant to be broken.
Further, it appears that the exhibit didn't violate the rules as much as the administrations sensibilities rather than adhering to the rules.
P.S. if you are so desperate for someone to look at you, perhaps you should try looking in a mirror first rather than denigrating others. And consider whiping the smug look of self-righteousness of your face as well it isn't flattering at all.
Further, it appears that the exhibit didn't violate the rules as much as the administrations sensibilities rather than adhering to the rules.
P.S. if you are so desperate for someone to look at you, perhaps you should try looking in a mirror first rather than denigrating others. And consider whiping the smug look of self-righteousness of your face as well it isn't flattering at all.
49
Oh no. When this kind of stuff happens, I always worry about things like, being "admitted" into an ex-gay camp against your will.
53
Yet another reason i am thankful to have moved to NC from Utah (Motto: Our religion is better than yours).
54
Romney is already begun swooning the conservative right and plans Mormon and Christian alliance for the next election cycle. It is imperative that friends and family of gays and the gay community as a whole be prepared politically for the assault that in effect with Prop 8, has already begun.
Continued deligence and through the internet their success will prove to be what it is; bigotry, intolerance and hateful.
Continued deligence and through the internet their success will prove to be what it is; bigotry, intolerance and hateful.
55
By the way, BYU put the photos back up. Here's a story about it: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,514…
56
Let me get this straight, he attends an insanely conservative, mormon university and he is surprised to receive homophobic treatment??? Sorry, but you make your bed, you lie in it. Wake up and move. Leave BYU to the crazies.
57
That's right, because art, once censored, is all gone. The artist never tells anybody, and nobody wants to find out what was so powerful and authority-threatening that it needed to be censored. That's totally how art works.
58
@45
Thanks for sharing that. I think this project was fantastic; it has achieved what it set out to achieve. Not only did it get people talking at BYU about this issue it has, ultimately, shown that there is support, that not everyone will turn on you. I'm glad you have come to accept who you are and I hope you can also love who you are.
I'm not gay but several of my friends are and my partner is bi. This is not simply about gay people, it is about all people.
Thanks for sharing that. I think this project was fantastic; it has achieved what it set out to achieve. Not only did it get people talking at BYU about this issue it has, ultimately, shown that there is support, that not everyone will turn on you. I'm glad you have come to accept who you are and I hope you can also love who you are.
I'm not gay but several of my friends are and my partner is bi. This is not simply about gay people, it is about all people.
59
According to the story, the artwork was taken down because of a "administration miscommunication." If this is true and the work was quickly placed back up again censorship never took place. Mistakes happen, so don't get frustrated and see things that aren't really there. Isn't that the point of your artwork anyways?
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