Saturday, November 29, 2008
Books Reading Today
Posted by Paul Constant on Sat, Nov 29, 2008 at 10:07 AM
There is an open mic today. There are no other readings. See yesterday's post for the importance of shopping at independent bookstores.
Here is Robert Anton Wilson talking with someone about his "IlluminAYtus TriloGEE" and conspiracy theories.
Full readings calendar, including the next week or so, is here.
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2
I love how R.A.W. was the king of the unhinged conspiracy theories in his novels, but when you hear him speak here he sounds completely reasonable, like somebody with a keen grasp of politics and a healthy skepticism about grand sweeping theories. Especially when he's distinguishing how real-world conspiracies work from how they work in the minds of paranoid schizophrenics.
I'll bet he had to listen to a lot of paranoid schizophrenics in his line of work.
I'll bet he had to listen to a lot of paranoid schizophrenics in his line of work.
4
@2: If that's directed at me, then no. I'm speaking in earnest (this time.)
After reading some of his books, I kinda figured dude was halfway crazy himself, but when I've seen him interviewed he seemed sane and reasonable.
After reading some of his books, I kinda figured dude was halfway crazy himself, but when I've seen him interviewed he seemed sane and reasonable.
5
This interview is awful, because the interviewer is a giant douche nozzle. Watching this idiot interview RAW is like watching a monkey play with a rubics cube.
RAW is one of the best philosophers in the 20th century. This maybe logic video contains more truth then a year at a university:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=…
I will share an occult secret.
If you smoke a sploint and drop mushoyete, and watch this maybe logic video while intentionally trying hard to trick yourself into believing that God is speaking through RAW in this movie, you will become enlightened, and may subsequently be contacted by your local chapter of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Noon to receive your assignment toward helping the illuminati establish the new world order and fight the black magicians who control society with the puppet strings your education put in your head.
RAW is one of the best philosophers in the 20th century. This maybe logic video contains more truth then a year at a university:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=…
I will share an occult secret.
If you smoke a sploint and drop mushoyete, and watch this maybe logic video while intentionally trying hard to trick yourself into believing that God is speaking through RAW in this movie, you will become enlightened, and may subsequently be contacted by your local chapter of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Noon to receive your assignment toward helping the illuminati establish the new world order and fight the black magicians who control society with the puppet strings your education put in your head.
6
I mean, look. Almost the first words out of his mouth are the Discovery Institute's stock canard against evolution, right? And then he follows by rattling off a list of disjointed factoids, which are supposed to just assemble themselves in your mind to carry a point.
This is a hallmark of nutters. Instead of connecting facts together with a glue of logic, they pepper you with these factual-sounding statements and let the weight of them make an impression. The intent is to unbalance and disturb you, rather than to persuade.
Note also the total reliance on inductive reasoning. There was a conspiracy in Italy, which fell apart. Therefore, the there are similar conspiracy all over, and they all fall apart. Maybe so, but not because of they way this guy tries to prove it.
Since his books are plain goofy, it's fair to say he sounds more reasonable than his books. But that isn't saying much.
This is a hallmark of nutters. Instead of connecting facts together with a glue of logic, they pepper you with these factual-sounding statements and let the weight of them make an impression. The intent is to unbalance and disturb you, rather than to persuade.
Note also the total reliance on inductive reasoning. There was a conspiracy in Italy, which fell apart. Therefore, the there are similar conspiracy all over, and they all fall apart. Maybe so, but not because of they way this guy tries to prove it.
Since his books are plain goofy, it's fair to say he sounds more reasonable than his books. But that isn't saying much.
7
@6: Um, I thought that quote about monotheism and polytheism was actually from another person, and Wilson was using it to make an analogy to his own belief that the world has many small conspiracies and not one overarching one. Maybe I misheard?
Then the examples he gives are meant to support his position, that in the real world conspiracies tend to collapse under their own weight before they get big enough to be an Illuminati. Ergo, doesn't seem particularly unreasonable to me. Did I miss something?
As far as the existence of small, non-world-controlling conspiracies goes, please consult the previous entry, entitled "Morning News."
Then the examples he gives are meant to support his position, that in the real world conspiracies tend to collapse under their own weight before they get big enough to be an Illuminati. Ergo, doesn't seem particularly unreasonable to me. Did I miss something?
As far as the existence of small, non-world-controlling conspiracies goes, please consult the previous entry, entitled "Morning News."
9
The single hallmark of the true 'nutters' is that they believe their perspective to be the only possible perspective.
10
@9
No way. For example, one kind of true nutter that doesn't think their perspective alone is the one and only truth is stoners. Or "discordians" if you want to give stoners a fancy name. Stoners think every perspective is at least partly true, and in the case of stoners like Robert Anton Wilson, they get all smug about it.
No way. For example, one kind of true nutter that doesn't think their perspective alone is the one and only truth is stoners. Or "discordians" if you want to give stoners a fancy name. Stoners think every perspective is at least partly true, and in the case of stoners like Robert Anton Wilson, they get all smug about it.
11
@10
sooo you're dismissive of people who lack the massive ego to not regard their reality as all consuming? and you are calling them smug while flippantly labelling them stoners. nice.
sooo you're dismissive of people who lack the massive ego to not regard their reality as all consuming? and you are calling them smug while flippantly labelling them stoners. nice.
12
@11
Um, watch the video. Do you not know a stoner when you see one?
The name of the fallacy you're committing in your comment is "false dilemma". You use it to construct a "straw man attack," whereby you pretend that if I dismiss stoners (er, discordians) then I must be utterly exclusive in my worldview.
Um, watch the video. Do you not know a stoner when you see one?
The name of the fallacy you're committing in your comment is "false dilemma". You use it to construct a "straw man attack," whereby you pretend that if I dismiss stoners (er, discordians) then I must be utterly exclusive in my worldview.
13
no I took offense because I'm a stoner too dude. I'm sorry if some Discordian types were acting smug to you, but it doesn't look good on you to keep the cycle going.
14
actually, I'll bite: so do you agree that all perceptions of reality are at least partly true, so long as the claim isn't being expressed smugly? because if so, we have no quarrel. it's just you were being remarkably dickish.
15
Robert Anton Wilson is fantastically overrated. Point that out and you stir up a hornet's nest. Somebody might even call you a dick. That's nothing compared to when I unload on JRR Tolkien, so I suppose I shouldn't complain.
I think it is possible to be so intellectually lazy, so drug-addled, so self-indulgent, so ignorant, that whatever sliver of truth originally existed in a defective perception of reality can be be eradicated, leaving behind no truth whatsover.
I think it is possible to be so intellectually lazy, so drug-addled, so self-indulgent, so ignorant, that whatever sliver of truth originally existed in a defective perception of reality can be be eradicated, leaving behind no truth whatsover.
16
okay. I sort of agree with you. while I like Wilson (and Tolkien for that matter) I am by no means a fanboy who can't take legitimate criticism of peoples who aren't myself. the Illuminatus books were brilliant when I was 16, but you can only carry so much of that over into adulthood without seeming to be full of shit. but in this particular interview, he seemed to still be fairly coherant and suprisingly his brand of paranoia came off as rational. so much so that were I to believe in conspiracies, I'd have to agree with his main thesis that it's unlikely a single global conspiracy was responsible for thwarting human history.
18
@15: Hmmm. Well, my only complaint was that you seem to be responding to things the person in the video didn't say, but rather things you imagine he said, or things that a guy like him probably would say. And it all seems to be part of some dismissive attack on something or another -- stoners? discordians? conspiracy theorists? trekkies? who knows? -- that seems to be more about some personal preferences you have than anything else. So I guess you didn't enjoy the Lord of the Rings or something?
Which is fine, but I have this weird feeling that you and I just watched two different videos, and the one I watched showed me something I didn't expect (Robert Anton Wilson: surprisingly cogent) and the one you watched showed you exactly what you expected (Robert Anton Wilson: Big stoner wackadoodle) probably as a result of you not paying very careful attention.
You may now feel free to say something terribly clever that will put me in my place.
Which is fine, but I have this weird feeling that you and I just watched two different videos, and the one I watched showed me something I didn't expect (Robert Anton Wilson: surprisingly cogent) and the one you watched showed you exactly what you expected (Robert Anton Wilson: Big stoner wackadoodle) probably as a result of you not paying very careful attention.
You may now feel free to say something terribly clever that will put me in my place.
19
Off-topic:
Americans have said they want to devote more than 22 percent of transporation funds to pedestrian and bicycle use.
Please, read the following and petition Pres-Elect Obama if you agree...
http://support.railstotrails.org/recover…
Americans have said they want to devote more than 22 percent of transporation funds to pedestrian and bicycle use.
Please, read the following and petition Pres-Elect Obama if you agree...
http://support.railstotrails.org/recover…
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