Friday, November 28, 2008
Boom Filling Up Frellingford—With Traffic?
Posted by Dominic Holden on Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 6:30 PM
The city approved an ambitious proposal this week for a block-long building on North 40th Street and Stone Way North (between Fremont and Wallingford). You may know the block as "that gaping chasm where the Safeway used to be."
The site's fate has been in flux for years. After the Safeway closed, QFC proposed a new grocery store and a handful of apartments but then backed out. Prescott Homes later submitted an alternative for less commercial space and more residences. In its decision, the Department of Planning and Development approved a five-story building containing 143 residential units, seven live-work units, 15,000 square feet of multi-purpose convenience store and 2,000 square feet for a restaurant. (I’ve written about the site here and here.)
Baylis Architects
Although building something—anything—is better than that damn hole, the specter of more traffic on the side streets raised hackles.
Alicia Van Buskirk led a push among neighbors to meet with the city and ask developers (starting with QFC) to modify their designs. The final plans require parking to be contained underground (not on top, as previously proposed) and limit vehicle access to North 39th Street (scratching a plan to allow parking access through a residential alley). Nonetheless, Van Buskirk says that the influx of hundreds of new residents and shoppers could result in dangerous traffic levels on side streets.
According to the city’s report (.pdf), the development will generate about 1,360 vehicle trips per day. But, the report continues, "the current proposal would generate less traffic than the previous operating Safeway store."
This specific conflict—between development on busy streets and neighbors on the side streets—is bound to increase exponentially as Seattle develops its arterials. The arguments are always the same: it's too big, it doesn't look like the houses nearby, the units are too expensive, there's too much traffic...
But arterials—which are zoned for taller buildings and situated on transit lines—are the ideal place for increasing density. People who live on arterials have long accepted their proximity to traffic and noise, but now, people set back 100 to 200 feet from an arterial have to accept the same fate. Van Buskirk deserves applause for seeking reasonable solutions, such as keeping cars on the arterial and contained in the building, rather than a knee-jerk anti-devlopment response too common among some neighborhood groups. But there's no two ways about it: Single-family neighborhoods will get more through-traffic as Seattle grows into a big city. Meanwhile in Frellingford, neighbors and the developers are preparing to meet next week to keep hashing out a traffic plan.
Prescott Homes did not return calls in time for this Slog post. So no word yet on how long this gaping hole will remain a gaping hole.
Share via
1
I was hoping for the QFC or a Whole Foods to open there. The QFC on 45th sucks. I was hoping to move back to Stone Way when I get out of the nursing home, but now there is no point. I need to live near a grocery store.
3
Freeford or Wallingmont. That's what the area between Stone Way and Aurora is actually known as by the Wallingford neighborhood association.
5
Hi, I'm Rula Lenska.
Why is Seattle self-destructing into a shithole?
Or was it always that way...
Why is Seattle self-destructing into a shithole?
Or was it always that way...
7
"Seattle grows into a big city." In bold, no less. That's always funny. But seriously, people who live set back from arterials have to accept "their fate"? Is predestination the newest trend in urban planning?
8
I like to drive - I think it's fun. And I accept that it's something I will do less of as the planet warms, gas prices go higher and - most importantly - Seattle grows into a "real city." But the aesthetic experience of driving in the North End has sucked for at least a decade. Going from Ballard to the U-district takes 30 minutes; on a sunny day in July probably 50 minutes. It's mostly stop and go nasty traffic too.
The only way driving could be made worse there would be to add more stop signs, so that we get the "you go" "no you go" Seattle driving nightmare like we have in Greenlake or Queen Anne. Since it can't get any worse--or, on the margins, I won't get any more frusturated when a shitty 30 minute drive turns into a shitty 33 minute drive--I say go for it!
The only way driving could be made worse there would be to add more stop signs, so that we get the "you go" "no you go" Seattle driving nightmare like we have in Greenlake or Queen Anne. Since it can't get any worse--or, on the margins, I won't get any more frusturated when a shitty 30 minute drive turns into a shitty 33 minute drive--I say go for it!
9
The best way to fuck up someone's day in Seattle would be to put 3 stop signs at a busy 4-way intersection.
10
Could you also inquire into how much longer we need a vacant lot parking lot where the cha cha/bimbos/bus stop/manray/kincoras used to be?
11
I miss that old Safeway. It was one of those late 1940's, Patricia Neal-ish style Safeway. And the parking lot sign was an awful lot of fun.
12
What we should do is shit-can any requirements that parking be a part of residential construction, and maybe consider a requirement that there be no parking. I've lived in Seattle for 7 years without a car and living by an arterial here is just as good as living by the red-line in Chicago, I did that for 1 year and lived by the blue-line for 2. Lots of apartments with no parking would mean lots of voters who don't think of driving conditions first.
Most people we know around here wouldn't dream of living in that location without parking, that's why we need new people. Until we increase the non-driving population, we'll still have to deal with the same NIMBY bullshit.
Although you're right that this neighborhood response is a huge improvement over what we're used to.
NIMBY community groups like these have to be marginalized or we never lose that suburban mentality that hangs over Seattle like a toxic cloud.
Most people we know around here wouldn't dream of living in that location without parking, that's why we need new people. Until we increase the non-driving population, we'll still have to deal with the same NIMBY bullshit.
Although you're right that this neighborhood response is a huge improvement over what we're used to.
NIMBY community groups like these have to be marginalized or we never lose that suburban mentality that hangs over Seattle like a toxic cloud.
13
This really is a uniquely important site, and is worth getting right. At the very least, I really hope that the generic 15,0000 sqf convenience store described in the decision means a significant food market of that size, and isn't allowed to be subdivided into a Plaid Pantry, Quizno's, and tanning salon halfway through construction.
Way way back when (as in, way before the QFC proposal), Wallingford objected rightly to locating the entrance for a rebuilt Safeway on NE 40th Street, as it would result in cars entering the uphill portion of the site instead of the part that faces onto Stone Way as it did when Safeway was still there. Doing so about guarantees permanent gridlock on 40th for cross town town commuters, and also creates a very strong likelihood that there will be a ton of rear-end collisions as westbound traffic crests the hill and is immediately confronted with a line of cars waiting to turn left into the Safeway lot against traffic.
While my recollection is that the neighbors used to consider the former Stone Way entrance route to be the best option, 39th was seen as a reasonable compromise.
Having looked at the decision, I can't help but be struck by how thoughtful and diligent the DRB and DPD were in reviewing the project, but how strangely disappointing the current plan appears to be despite all of their efforts.
@ 12 -
I was in Chicago a few months ago, and having actively sought out and read every local paper I could get my hands on, it seems to me that there are plenty of people there with similar concerns about the real-world effects of this kind of growth in their neighborhoods, too. Oddly enough, I found that the effective activism you dismiss as a "suburban mentality" in those in-city single family neighborhood folks was quite refreshing (as I have in Berkeley, LA, NYC, Berlin, Paris, and pretty much every other city I have picked up a neighborhood paper in).
But yeah, that said, if you live across the alley from this particular site, it's not as if you didn't know this day was coming.
More...
Way way back when (as in, way before the QFC proposal), Wallingford objected rightly to locating the entrance for a rebuilt Safeway on NE 40th Street, as it would result in cars entering the uphill portion of the site instead of the part that faces onto Stone Way as it did when Safeway was still there. Doing so about guarantees permanent gridlock on 40th for cross town town commuters, and also creates a very strong likelihood that there will be a ton of rear-end collisions as westbound traffic crests the hill and is immediately confronted with a line of cars waiting to turn left into the Safeway lot against traffic.
While my recollection is that the neighbors used to consider the former Stone Way entrance route to be the best option, 39th was seen as a reasonable compromise.
Having looked at the decision, I can't help but be struck by how thoughtful and diligent the DRB and DPD were in reviewing the project, but how strangely disappointing the current plan appears to be despite all of their efforts.
@ 12 -
I was in Chicago a few months ago, and having actively sought out and read every local paper I could get my hands on, it seems to me that there are plenty of people there with similar concerns about the real-world effects of this kind of growth in their neighborhoods, too. Oddly enough, I found that the effective activism you dismiss as a "suburban mentality" in those in-city single family neighborhood folks was quite refreshing (as I have in Berkeley, LA, NYC, Berlin, Paris, and pretty much every other city I have picked up a neighborhood paper in).
But yeah, that said, if you live across the alley from this particular site, it's not as if you didn't know this day was coming.
14
As long as the bar at the bottom of Stone Way doesn't change. This past June, I got shit-faced there during the Solstice parade. Good times. Not to mention bicycling to it from White Center. I took the bus back home.
16
If traffic is going to be such a problem on Stone Way N, then they should go back to two lanes in each direction so it can flow.
@ 12:
Actually, attitudes like yours are the ones that shold be marginalized. Cars will be smaller, lighter, cleaner, more ecologically sound, and more ubiquitous in the next 20-25 years, and the use of personal motorized transit will keep pace with the population growth.
When cars are running on biodiesel made from algae, what will your excuse be for banning them then? You won't have one, just like you don't have one now, except for "I don't like cars."
Well, cars are like abortions. If you don't like them, don't have one. But don't fuck with other people's choices.
@ 12:
Actually, attitudes like yours are the ones that shold be marginalized. Cars will be smaller, lighter, cleaner, more ecologically sound, and more ubiquitous in the next 20-25 years, and the use of personal motorized transit will keep pace with the population growth.
When cars are running on biodiesel made from algae, what will your excuse be for banning them then? You won't have one, just like you don't have one now, except for "I don't like cars."
Well, cars are like abortions. If you don't like them, don't have one. But don't fuck with other people's choices.
17
Yet another reason why we need better mass transit.
And here I go, about to respond to someone who's just obviously bating the likes of me:
Hey Ivan, no one mentioned banning cars. But anyway, cars aren't like abortions. I don't have a car and yet the quality of my life, though improved at times by cars (thanks to my friends), is also compromised by them (e.g. constant noise and exhaust in my neighborhood).
If hypothetically cars didn't exist and we could replace the freeways with a huge number of women having abortions in their place, it wouldn't increase area asthma rates in children, or pedestrian fatalities.
I understand why people like cars (convenience, independence, etc.) but they harm the environment in numerous ways (Again, they destroy the air quality--exhaust of any kind will do that, even biodiesel, particularly if the number of cars increases, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here. Highways take up space and are ugly. They're also dangerous because people abuse the privilege of driving and drive when they're intoxicated or sleep deprived or talking on their cell phones. They also isolate people from their environments.)
Plain and simple, an individual's actions affect others. This is why sometimes, yeah, we need to fuck with other peoples' choices when they don't seem to get that the world isn't their own instant-gratification-fest.
You know, I hope the ecologically sound cars you refer to actually come to be, even if they make the landscape ugly--if I can't have non-toxic and beautiful, non-toxic itself is better than nothing--but I'm not optimistic.
And here I go, about to respond to someone who's just obviously bating the likes of me:
Hey Ivan, no one mentioned banning cars. But anyway, cars aren't like abortions. I don't have a car and yet the quality of my life, though improved at times by cars (thanks to my friends), is also compromised by them (e.g. constant noise and exhaust in my neighborhood).
If hypothetically cars didn't exist and we could replace the freeways with a huge number of women having abortions in their place, it wouldn't increase area asthma rates in children, or pedestrian fatalities.
I understand why people like cars (convenience, independence, etc.) but they harm the environment in numerous ways (Again, they destroy the air quality--exhaust of any kind will do that, even biodiesel, particularly if the number of cars increases, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here. Highways take up space and are ugly. They're also dangerous because people abuse the privilege of driving and drive when they're intoxicated or sleep deprived or talking on their cell phones. They also isolate people from their environments.)
Plain and simple, an individual's actions affect others. This is why sometimes, yeah, we need to fuck with other peoples' choices when they don't seem to get that the world isn't their own instant-gratification-fest.
You know, I hope the ecologically sound cars you refer to actually come to be, even if they make the landscape ugly--if I can't have non-toxic and beautiful, non-toxic itself is better than nothing--but I'm not optimistic.
18
http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/darwi…
Feldman, that's a good story of drunken idocy. Power to ya for the bike ride and bus taking.
"we wonder who the real men are" - Joe Jackson
Feldman, that's a good story of drunken idocy. Power to ya for the bike ride and bus taking.
"we wonder who the real men are" - Joe Jackson
19
Ain't no serious bio-diesel effort with gasoline <$4/gallon kids.
Bio-diesel will always be more expensive than gasoline, because they can.
Everyone driving a diesel-enabled vehicle already raise your hand.
Everyone looking forward to buying a new diesel-enabled vehicle in the near future, raise your hand.
Bio-diesel will always be more expensive than gasoline, because they can.
Everyone driving a diesel-enabled vehicle already raise your hand.
Everyone looking forward to buying a new diesel-enabled vehicle in the near future, raise your hand.
20
To keep the arterial sidewalk friendly to walkers, it is good to put the driveway on the side street. A lousy arterial for walking has tons of driveway cuts, a good one has very few. Of course, the best business districts for walking were built before parking lots and garages were required by government.
21
"Bio-diesel will always be more expensive than gasoline, because they can. "
Oh, child of the Reagan era. You are indeed naive. Now that we are back in power, we can use government to totally change the paradigm.
Oh, child of the Reagan era. You are indeed naive. Now that we are back in power, we can use government to totally change the paradigm.
22
#17
you really don't know it all
hydrogen cars on on the road in California, test stage, 50 of them from GM and others from Toyota and Ford.
Peasants and serfs never left the Kings Farm. In the horse and buggy era poor people rarely left the small town.
Some how the use of transportation by the masses has come to mean something negative by the hot house babies.
Stupid does not begin to describe their concept of a modern functioning world.
Of course horse crap everywhere was a big bonus, or, was it?
By the way, in the days of wagons, rural people went to town once a month. Oh sure, all the wholesome isolation ... some of these posts are just so mind jerking silly.
On a global basis we will move to small cars with very high miles and whole new tecnology - mass transit - including personal vehicles, trucks and buses is here to stay.
Pray for jet packs, magna flux roads, central energy source autos, and on down the sci fi list. It will ALL happen with time.
Remember the market for advanced technology on a global basis is ten times what it was twenty years ago
and China and India are racing toward newer and newer engineering inroads. Both are now in space and will soon overtake American space science.
America has the problem doing anything really new. Look to China, tapping a market of tens of millions of
units a year.
By the way, under pressure form the Feds, American autos can be pushed to twice the miles. Thank Bush for the shit on another front.
Nothing wrong with the solar panels on your house charging the batteries of your car either.
you really don't know it all
hydrogen cars on on the road in California, test stage, 50 of them from GM and others from Toyota and Ford.
Peasants and serfs never left the Kings Farm. In the horse and buggy era poor people rarely left the small town.
Some how the use of transportation by the masses has come to mean something negative by the hot house babies.
Stupid does not begin to describe their concept of a modern functioning world.
Of course horse crap everywhere was a big bonus, or, was it?
By the way, in the days of wagons, rural people went to town once a month. Oh sure, all the wholesome isolation ... some of these posts are just so mind jerking silly.
On a global basis we will move to small cars with very high miles and whole new tecnology - mass transit - including personal vehicles, trucks and buses is here to stay.
Pray for jet packs, magna flux roads, central energy source autos, and on down the sci fi list. It will ALL happen with time.
Remember the market for advanced technology on a global basis is ten times what it was twenty years ago
and China and India are racing toward newer and newer engineering inroads. Both are now in space and will soon overtake American space science.
America has the problem doing anything really new. Look to China, tapping a market of tens of millions of
units a year.
By the way, under pressure form the Feds, American autos can be pushed to twice the miles. Thank Bush for the shit on another front.
Nothing wrong with the solar panels on your house charging the batteries of your car either.
23
#19 - honey, gas is 1.89 here in Seattle as we post.
My family had a Mercedes Diesel thirty five years ago - custom order from Germany - ran on stove oil - which then was dirt cheap
I think it is still in a garage on the family farm, we used it for twenty five years, god, the thing clattered a lot, but just fine transportation. (no speed in the passing lane, ever, but it would plane at 75 on the highway like a breeze ..)
My family had a Mercedes Diesel thirty five years ago - custom order from Germany - ran on stove oil - which then was dirt cheap
I think it is still in a garage on the family farm, we used it for twenty five years, god, the thing clattered a lot, but just fine transportation. (no speed in the passing lane, ever, but it would plane at 75 on the highway like a breeze ..)
24
@11, old Safeway signs don't count as Mid-Century Modern unless, of course, they have the two slender spires of different heights.
25
@ top photo: Looks like an underappreciated opportunity for a neighborhood personal-watercraft launch ramp.
26
@22,
Neither do you. Hydrogen is bunk. It will not come to pass, period. No one who's serious about energy or the environment would rely on that joke of a technology.
you really don't know it all
hydrogen cars on on the road in California, test stage, 50 of them from GM and others from Toyota and Ford
Neither do you. Hydrogen is bunk. It will not come to pass, period. No one who's serious about energy or the environment would rely on that joke of a technology.
27
Why do you guys hate our grocery store?
Especially since it's on the bus lines from the U Dist to Queen Anne, Seattle Center, and Fremont?
Seriously, GET ER DONE!
Especially since it's on the bus lines from the U Dist to Queen Anne, Seattle Center, and Fremont?
Seriously, GET ER DONE!
29
Rob dear, I said the parking lot sign was fun. NOT that the parking lot sign was "mid-century modern". There is a significant difference.
Chez Vel-DuRay is a tasteful Mid-Century enclave. It is not fun. At least not per se.
The Safeway parking lot sign was fun, in that 50's cartoonish sort of way, but not necessarily an example of Mid-Century Modernism.
Please make a note of it.
Chez Vel-DuRay is a tasteful Mid-Century enclave. It is not fun. At least not per se.
The Safeway parking lot sign was fun, in that 50's cartoonish sort of way, but not necessarily an example of Mid-Century Modernism.
Please make a note of it.
30
# 16 I agree with not fucking with other peoples' choices. What we really should do is get rid of all zoning laws and eliminate DCLU. I think if the market had been free since the 40's-- this means no national highway fund, no zoning etc., cities would be more dense and suburbs would be less violently retarded. Since the 40's, all construction has been dictated by community planners and the result has been increasingly hideous. If zoning must continue-- and I can't see it going away in any less than a few decades, let it favor the pedestrian and the renter. It's our fucking turn.
31
Oh, and I don't believe that climate change comes from your tailpipe. It has always happened and always will. I think we should do our best to burn all the fossil fuels on earth as soon as possible. But living in the city without a car is healthier and better for a variety of good reasons.
32
#26 - and fixed viewpoint produce change?
bunk
new interest in hot isotope nuke micro units - small - maybe the new auto fuel??
or maybe bunk, but let's not ask
call the know it alls for the answers, they have it all under control
not bunk, bullshit ten feet deep, sir
bunk
new interest in hot isotope nuke micro units - small - maybe the new auto fuel??
or maybe bunk, but let's not ask
call the know it alls for the answers, they have it all under control
not bunk, bullshit ten feet deep, sir
33
in a giant looming depression, they all got lucky not to have the gaping hole for a decade
I loved the OLD SAFEWAY - went there on purpose - tons of mark downs and good sales, sweet guys working the floor - bought dimes in the parking lot at the same visit
the best of all worlds - gone forever - and what's with the fucking sing, I do not remember that
oh well, with any size real grocery below, the units will rent well.... older folks like to be right near the grocery store, and VERY energy effiient and easy to carry....
good luck to the vanishing hole project
I loved the OLD SAFEWAY - went there on purpose - tons of mark downs and good sales, sweet guys working the floor - bought dimes in the parking lot at the same visit
the best of all worlds - gone forever - and what's with the fucking sing, I do not remember that
oh well, with any size real grocery below, the units will rent well.... older folks like to be right near the grocery store, and VERY energy effiient and easy to carry....
good luck to the vanishing hole project
Most Commented on Slog
-
Your Daily Douchebag by Dominic Holden
-
Health Care Passes the House by Paul Constant
-
The Procession for Officer Brenton by Dominic Holden
-
What She Said by Dan Savage
-
SL Letter of the Day: She Needs Oral by Dan Savage
-
Titties and Beer by Dan Savage
-
Rules for Waitstaff by Bethany Jean Clement
-
That's It: R-71 Wins! by Dominic Holden
-
What He Said by Dan Savage
-
This "Pledge of Allegiance" Drives Me Crazy, Teabaggers! by Paul Constant
RSS
Facebook
Twitter
Comments (33) RSS