Tuesday, November 25, 2008
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz A Modest Proposal for College Newspapers
Posted by Brendan Kiley on Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:55 AM
I'm personally depressed at the turn the Daily has taken—it used to be a boot camp for The Stranger and DJs for KCMU/KEXP.
Daily alumnus who work/have worked at The Stranger include: art director Aaron Huffman, writer/editor Sean Nelson, writer/designer Evan Sult (all of whom were/are also in Harvey Danger, which I think started as a college-paper house band), and, um, me.
Which is to say, the Daily was always staffed by half-wits. But they used to be half-wits who at least stood for the principles of fun and urbanism and basic human decency.
Though I'm sure we're all glad that most of the Dailies we wrote, edited, and designed were pre-internet. That's a luxury Mr. Fay doesn't have.
Embarrassing oneself in the college paper is a venerable tradition. But someday, when he's older, he'll be mortified at what a cocksure, ill-educated, ill-bred kid he used to be.
(His Christian-marriage-predates-the-Constitution argument is especially idiotic—the tradition of slavery predates the Thirteenth fucking Amendment. So that invalidates abolition? Whatever professor or philosopher put that argument in your head, Mr. Fay, has done your brain a great disservice.)
And the internet never forgets. I feel a little pity for Future Fay.
A modest proposal for the Daily and other college papers: Maybe consider only doing print editions, to give your writers and editors a chance to fuck around and fuck up without embarrassing yourselves for all time.
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1
I kinda feel sorry for him too... he's probably just an ignorant kid. When he gets older, hopefully he'll have learned something, but he'll still be stuck forever with the stuff he writes now.
4
It's also a good lesson that if you teach your kids to be assholes, give them common names like John Fay and not uncommon names like Marlee Ginter, so employers and girl/boyfriends can't find their dumbass rants in Google.
5
I used to write for The Cooper Point Journal, the weekly school paper at The Evergreen State College, twenty years ago, and I am embarrassed about 100% of the stuff I wrote.
6
Amen Brother Brendan. As a former Daily columnist, I'm very happy that my Kiley-Era columns on cunnilingus are buried beyond the net's reach.
7
Just to give a little perspective, John Fay and I are within months of the same age and started at UW at the same time. He may be young, but to earn the excuse of not knowing any better, he'd have to be mentally disabled, have Asperger's or something equally limiting. Otherwise I'm not cutting him any slack!
9
When did right-wing assholes start taking over the college newspapers? The College Republicans have their own section already: the Letters to the Editor.
I'm glad that shit gets published, though. It just turns students away from their cause.
I'm glad that shit gets published, though. It just turns students away from their cause.
10
It's just sad how every time someone gets on The Stranger's shit list, you don't stop at arguing with them. Why to there have to be threats of retribution? Does it always have to escalate to harassment? Is it really going to be your business to make this follow the guy for the rest of his life?
And more generally, are you guys going to calm down after the Prop 8 defeat and get ahold of yourselves?
And more generally, are you guys going to calm down after the Prop 8 defeat and get ahold of yourselves?
11
We're exploring ways of bringing our paper archives going back through the 1900's online. Are you saying this is a bad idea?
12
did the Stranger not do a funny endorsement of a Republican college kid once upon an election?
so why all the big big surprise? yes, some of them are right wingers, good main stream conservative parents, oh, my the horror
and he will be this way for 77 years to go
and should not be censored, but, mocking is fine
bet he admires/desires to the max, Palin and her comely daughter to the max
so why all the big big surprise? yes, some of them are right wingers, good main stream conservative parents, oh, my the horror
and he will be this way for 77 years to go
and should not be censored, but, mocking is fine
bet he admires/desires to the max, Palin and her comely daughter to the max
13
The Cooper Point Journal is finally on line (I haven't read it yet) and I fear the day they start digitizing the archives and reach 1988. I am going to be really embarrassed.
14
The Western Front for the win. Though I'm still embarassed about my ironic pro-global warming article. Sometimes irony doesn't come through in online archives.
15
It is the publisher of the paper that oversees these articles. When Oren Campbell was the Daily publisher, he would instruct young writers when they used lazy arguments and taught them to be better at their craft. When he stepped down two years ago, so did the quality of The Daily.
16
he'll find his way. growing pains are embarrassing. i hope he keeps a positive attitude. i don't agree with his pov, but being young isn't easy and a tamp-down by the big kids probably isn't the village hillary encourages us to be the citizens of.
17
New Media: I would love to see the Daily's archives online, but be forewarned that it will throw the current state of the paper into even sharper relief.
18
I second that idea. Not only does internet publication saddle inexperienced writers with their bottom of the learning curve crap for the rest of their lives, it keeps possibly more talented writers from experimenting in the daily. I can speak for myself and a couple of other people who thought about submitting something to the paper, but the idea of some future employer/girlfriend/critic being able to use it against us was a big reason we chickened out. As a result only the most bold, boorish people such as Mr. Fay are actually ballsy enough to publish.
The college newspaper is meant to serve the writers more than its audience. Its supposed to be a sandbox where you can publish crap, learn from it, and smooth the whole thing over with a shovel without tagging it to your post college reputation.
If the daily went print only, the content would improve, people will be able to write dumb shit without getting flamed by slog, and everyone would be happier.
The college newspaper is meant to serve the writers more than its audience. Its supposed to be a sandbox where you can publish crap, learn from it, and smooth the whole thing over with a shovel without tagging it to your post college reputation.
If the daily went print only, the content would improve, people will be able to write dumb shit without getting flamed by slog, and everyone would be happier.
20
The principles of urbanism? Really? I can't even express how uninterested I am in "principles" like urbanism. How does one stand on that principle? Will I even know if it's being attacked?
Four question marks so far in this comment. Is that too many?
Four question marks so far in this comment. Is that too many?
21
I'm choosing to read this as, "Like me, the guys in Harvey Danger are half-wits who stand for the principles of fun and urbanism and basic human decency."
22
This former Daily staffer is also very grateful that the '90s archives are no longer available online. They were lurking around for years, ready to leap out at any time and embarrass me, and then one day they just disappeared. Phew. That said, I just came across the (hard copy) travel supplement my now-husband (then-editor) and I produced ten years ago, and it made me feel all warm and squishy.
Kamala @6: Did I work with you? Do we need to meet up with Brendan and have a Daily reunion to talk about how much better it was back in the day?
Brendan: Hi!
Kamala @6: Did I work with you? Do we need to meet up with Brendan and have a Daily reunion to talk about how much better it was back in the day?
Brendan: Hi!
23
@22: They're around, but they were all in hand-written HTML files and the server hosting them died. I wanted to bring them all back, but I'm waiting until I can find a good way to integrate them into the main site.
Watch out, they might sneak up and surprise you a year or so from now.
Watch out, they might sneak up and surprise you a year or so from now.
24
my favorite line in his piece is:
"There’s also a social consideration. The potential of open homosexuality for creating social dysfunction has been made manifest in the protests against Prop 8 since Nov. 4. "
Ahh yes of course I knew there was something I didn't like about homosexuality and it was homsexuals proclivity to demonstrate against the state for redress of grievances. First they want the right to marry now they want freedom of speech. What is this country coming to.... a democracy?
"There’s also a social consideration. The potential of open homosexuality for creating social dysfunction has been made manifest in the protests against Prop 8 since Nov. 4. "
Ahh yes of course I knew there was something I didn't like about homosexuality and it was homsexuals proclivity to demonstrate against the state for redress of grievances. First they want the right to marry now they want freedom of speech. What is this country coming to.... a democracy?
26
hey newmedia@thedaily, it might be time to invest in another server since it appears lychee is down from all the comment traffic.
27
@26: It was down for about 5 minutes, seems to be fine now. Investing in a new server would probably be a bad move, with the UW budget cuts and all...
28
elswinger, I am going to be embarrassed when the CPJ gets around to posting stuff from 1985. We were really big on the in-jokes back then. I'm not sure they made sense to anyone else on campus.
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