Monday, November 24, 2008
Media / Sex So Is KOMO's Marlee Ginter [a Damn Fine Journalist]? Or Isn't She [a Damn Fine Journalist]?
Posted by Dan Savage on Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 3:12 PM
Alert Slog readers noticed that my numerous posts about Marlee Ginter's inaccurate, sloppy, lying, sexphobic hit piece on the Center for Sex Positive Culture have been... amended. References to a certain breed of ruminant that shall remain nameless are out, replaced by a bracketed reference to Ginter's professed profession.
So, like, why?
I said that we wanted Ginter to retract and apologize—to the Center, to author Brian Alexander, to the viewers she and Dan Lewis lied to. The piece is already off KOMO's website, but Ginter and Lewis and KOMO haven't, so far as I'm aware, retracted the piece or apologized.
Now here's what happened behind the scenes: their lawyer called our lawyer in the middle of last week and asked us to stop being so darn mean. There was no threat of litigation because there wasn't any grounds for litigation—there were no copyright problems, no defamation issues, no liability on our part whatsoever, and the over the top stuff—some of the posts, the videos, references to ruminants—was clearly parody. So... that's where the lawyer-to-lawyer interactions ended. Then on Friday KOMO's general manager called and appealed to... well, you're never going to believe this. He appealed to our humanity. That's right, our humanity. Ginter was very, very, very, very upset and wouldn't we pretty please take her feelings into consideration and stop suggesting that she might be [a damn fine journalist]? Please?
And that's why Slog has been goat free since Sunday night. I know this answer won't satisfy some, and that it seems wildly out of character, but we're actually being... considerate. More considerate of Ginter's feelings than she's been of anyone else's. Now we don't have to be nice, and, after the hatchet job they did on Center, Ginter and KOMO have no right to expect gentle treatment.
I reserve the right to restore the posts to their original state—so the handful of Ginterphiles lurking in comments screaming and yelling about how we're gonna get our pants sued off might want to 1. talk to a lawyer and 2. refrain from pushing it. Ginter wants this [damn fine journalist] stuff to go away, after all, so you're not doing her any favors if you provoke me into putting all those [damn fine journalist] references back up.
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3
This is ridiculous, they have no grounds to sue you, and its Ginter's fault that she's in this mess for making shoddy work.
If she wants to clear her name she should run a piece apologizing and discussing the truth instead of all the crap she ran in the piece.
She should have to make the effort to make herself feel better, not you.
If she wants to clear her name she should run a piece apologizing and discussing the truth instead of all the crap she ran in the piece.
She should have to make the effort to make herself feel better, not you.
6
The KOMO piece was crap, but the Stranger's reaction was way over the top. IMO, it was like returning a shot fired by a bb gun with a canon.
7
I think as contrition, she and a goat should appear on the steps of The Stranger offices and be challenged to a tin can eating contest.
Only then will I be assuaged.
Only then will I be assuaged.
9
I think it's fine... the point was made, no need to crucify her forever. She's just out to make money, like most of us, and if she has to sell her soul to do it, like most of us, so be it.
10
So I finally watched it. She really buries the lead doesn't she? Anyway the stranger gets stupider every day. That's the best you can come up with? "Blows Goats"? That's very clever. Those are the big guns Dan brings out when he's really P.O.'ed.
11
You fucking bitch. Did their lawyers call Brian Alexander asking him to "please" start being a team player? Did you even want an apology, or did you just enjoy the attention? Doesn't matter. Nobody is getting an apology, but that obviously hasn't stopped you from throwing up your own words. You should apologize to us for being such a pushover.
Having fun with your points doesn't ruin them. Everything has been awesome up until the last post. Now it's all shit. What a waste.
Having fun with your points doesn't ruin them. Everything has been awesome up until the last post. Now it's all shit. What a waste.
14
Dan got the hack journalist's attention, has stopped stomping his feet and screaming, and has proven himself to be a complete wuss.
15
It was wrong from the beginning.
Really shows how much room you've got for improvement when you're taking your lessons in humanity from the general manager at KOMO.
And now, back to posting videos bashing Mormons...
Really shows how much room you've got for improvement when you're taking your lessons in humanity from the general manager at KOMO.
And now, back to posting videos bashing Mormons...
19
Ouch - people - easy. It was an interesting post-election trivial storyline for a while - and Dan proved a point quite well. It had to end somehow and had kinda run out of steam.
Hell, some of the best old SNL skits had no real ending.
Bottom line - this routine denouement hardly deserves the backlash (though I hear there is a seminar on back lashing at the center tonight...)
Keep on keepin on, Dan.
Hell, some of the best old SNL skits had no real ending.
Bottom line - this routine denouement hardly deserves the backlash (though I hear there is a seminar on back lashing at the center tonight...)
Keep on keepin on, Dan.
22
WUSS!
Given that KOMO has no ground to stand on, why don't you tell us the real reason you stopped, DAN?
YOU
GOT
BORED.
Since it seems that you have the attention span of an ADD afflicted gnat, your points come off as meek at best, and retarded at worst.
Really, you had a GOOD point for once. KOMO made a salacious story that was in error. It misinformed the Seattle public, and will get away with it without making a public retraction. Those who saw the report and don't read the online forums (you know, most people over the age of 50), are still misinformed. When they finally got caught at lying to capitalize on sweeps, the point gets dropped because of FEELINGS?!
Did Brian Alexander's feelings get considered in the abuse of his previous interview? Did the CSPC's feelings get considered in the making of the report? Should KOMO or Ginter's feelings be considered in the reporting of this? NO.
Your point hasn't been made. KOMO didn't get it. Ginter didn't get it. But, everybody else got the real point when we read this post: that the news behemoth's can do what they want without any actual repercussion.
Given that KOMO has no ground to stand on, why don't you tell us the real reason you stopped, DAN?
YOU
GOT
BORED.
Since it seems that you have the attention span of an ADD afflicted gnat, your points come off as meek at best, and retarded at worst.
Really, you had a GOOD point for once. KOMO made a salacious story that was in error. It misinformed the Seattle public, and will get away with it without making a public retraction. Those who saw the report and don't read the online forums (you know, most people over the age of 50), are still misinformed. When they finally got caught at lying to capitalize on sweeps, the point gets dropped because of FEELINGS?!
Did Brian Alexander's feelings get considered in the abuse of his previous interview? Did the CSPC's feelings get considered in the making of the report? Should KOMO or Ginter's feelings be considered in the reporting of this? NO.
Your point hasn't been made. KOMO didn't get it. Ginter didn't get it. But, everybody else got the real point when we read this post: that the news behemoth's can do what they want without any actual repercussion.
25
@22, like having the editor of an alt weekly making up a silly thing to make the rounds on the blog of the alt weekly and google are repercussions. people expect these childish antics from savage.
26
The only piece that I'm uncomfortable about is the way your comment about Ginter changes from an unfounded rumor ("may blow goats") to an out and out lie ("may be a damn fine journalist.)
I can't prove or disprove the first comment (not being or owning a goat.) but I've seen proof that the replacement isn't correct.
I can't prove or disprove the first comment (not being or owning a goat.) but I've seen proof that the replacement isn't correct.
27
Well, if she is suspected of sucking off goats I really think it's your responsibility to report it. News is news right? Isn't blowing goats a crime?
28
They think they can shit on us because we won't fight back.
I think those fuckers need to be afraid of us.
I'm not exactly sure who "us" is -- I wouldn't be caught dead in a sex club -- but I just hate bullying. Fucking local tv news.
I think those fuckers need to be afraid of us.
I'm not exactly sure who "us" is -- I wouldn't be caught dead in a sex club -- but I just hate bullying. Fucking local tv news.
29
You obviously had leverage, Dan. What did KOMO's general manager say he would do in return for you backing off? Or did he just say, "I don't want to apologize or make up for it in any way, I just want you to stop attacking us"?
'Cause if that's the case, well...you're lame. Quid pro quo is the name of the game.
'Cause if that's the case, well...you're lame. Quid pro quo is the name of the game.
30
The wet spot is a great place and a great public service.
Fuck this cunt with a red hot poker.
And I find your selective humanity, cowardly at best and fucking hypocritical at worst.
I want to know HOW bad this makes her feel. I want to see some fucking contrition. What a bunch of bullshit.
I want to see tears from this bitch for her hatchet job. And fuck her feelings. Life is about pain, and she had better learn from her mistakes, otherwise, its back to some third tier market like South Bend, IN.
I want to see some personal correspondence explaining how she can't sleep at night now.
Fuck you Dan for being a coward.
Fuck this cunt with a red hot poker.
And I find your selective humanity, cowardly at best and fucking hypocritical at worst.
I want to know HOW bad this makes her feel. I want to see some fucking contrition. What a bunch of bullshit.
I want to see tears from this bitch for her hatchet job. And fuck her feelings. Life is about pain, and she had better learn from her mistakes, otherwise, its back to some third tier market like South Bend, IN.
I want to see some personal correspondence explaining how she can't sleep at night now.
Fuck you Dan for being a coward.
31
@25 This could easily escalate into a report in the alt weekly which could be picked up by a paper like the Seattle Times/Seattle Weekly, or at least a rival news team. It doesn't take much to snowball things from the trivial (Dan's none-too-clever posts about goat sucking) to an actual frothy public outrage by various means.
32
Come on, Dan. You talked to the guy, did you ask him about that apology? Is there any indication that they will make an apology or correction? Because "stop being so mean" just isn't good enough.
33
Personally I feel that humanity should only be returned for like humanity, apologize for the hack job KOMO, and then and only then should it stop. Otherwise, Dan, if you're not going to hold these people accountable, I don't want to hear you bitching about any subsequent media outlets distortion of the facts. If not now then when?
34
You should put the goat comments back up. There was nothing wrong with them. You shouldn't have caved.
36
@29, @32 echo my sentiments. Why back off the goat references if KOMO and Ginter aren't going to apologize? LAME LAME LAME.
37
Well done, Dan. You made your point (hysterically) and you pulled the stinger when it was appropriate to do so.
I think Ms. Ginter owes you a couple thousand dollars for the graduate-level course in journalism you just gave her. In a word: schooled.
:-)
I think Ms. Ginter owes you a couple thousand dollars for the graduate-level course in journalism you just gave her. In a word: schooled.
:-)
40
I am glad that you put KOMO and Ms. Ginter on notice and will keep your word about hammering them the next time Ginter, or anyone over at KOMO, does such a shitty "expose." But hammer her over any story they fuck up. Don't wait for it to be about sex. And write new, and nastier, things about them.
You don't want to be accused of beating off a dead goat.
You don't want to be accused of beating off a dead goat.
41
It is time to book a SHITSTORM. Brendan - get on this.
On stage: Savage, Allena from the Center, Lewis, Ginter, KOMO producers, Alexander via phone, and all lawyers involved. And of course: the audience
Rendezvous is too small. Go for Town Hall.
On stage: Savage, Allena from the Center, Lewis, Ginter, KOMO producers, Alexander via phone, and all lawyers involved. And of course: the audience
Rendezvous is too small. Go for Town Hall.
42
you must think your readers are idiots, and some of them are. but it iwas nice of KOMO to lry you try to save face and pretend you did this out of the kindness of your heart. lol! they must have scared the shit out of you. actually censoring every single post?! yeah, you did that just to be nice, sure., dan!!
44
I'm pleased as punch that you folks down at the Stranger actually exhibit some humanity. I mean, other than Strangercrombie, of course.
Still, nowhere in this piece am I seeing an apology from Marlee Ginter, or from Dan Lewis, or from KOMO. Nor am I seeing any acknowledgment that there was anything at all wrong with their hit piece or standards of journalism. Nothing at all to indicate that they have gotten the point. All I have seen them do in response is (1) defend their gross mischaracterization of Brian Alexander's words, (2) pulled the video off their website, and (3) begged you to stop being mean to them.
So, fine, remove all references to the possibility of Ginter sucking off goats. Be nice all you want. But until I hear a sincere apology to Brian Alexander, the CSPC, or the public for their hack job, I will no longer consider KOMO a legitimate source of news. If that is what passes for journalism at KOMO, then I guess they are the Seattle local version of FOX, opinion thinly disguised as journalism, for whom actual facts or truth are meaningless.
Still, nowhere in this piece am I seeing an apology from Marlee Ginter, or from Dan Lewis, or from KOMO. Nor am I seeing any acknowledgment that there was anything at all wrong with their hit piece or standards of journalism. Nothing at all to indicate that they have gotten the point. All I have seen them do in response is (1) defend their gross mischaracterization of Brian Alexander's words, (2) pulled the video off their website, and (3) begged you to stop being mean to them.
So, fine, remove all references to the possibility of Ginter sucking off goats. Be nice all you want. But until I hear a sincere apology to Brian Alexander, the CSPC, or the public for their hack job, I will no longer consider KOMO a legitimate source of news. If that is what passes for journalism at KOMO, then I guess they are the Seattle local version of FOX, opinion thinly disguised as journalism, for whom actual facts or truth are meaningless.
45
Who the fuck cares....Might make her think twice the next time she's putting a story together. And the high road is a nice way to go sometimes.
"Fuck you Dan for being a coward." - ecce home
Thanks anonymous internet commenter. How are those double standards treating you?
"Fuck you Dan for being a coward." - ecce home
Thanks anonymous internet commenter. How are those double standards treating you?
46
For fucking hell people. The first posts about this were full of people whining about how mean Dan was being, how stupid this stunt was, and how likely it was that he was going to get sued.
Now it's all people whining about what a wuss Dan is (maybe, but whatever), how stupid it is to stop the stunt, and saying Dan doesn't have balls. Why exactly doesn't he have balls? As he explained (and I explained in an earlier comment and anyone with a elementary working knowledge of libel law would have explained), there really isn't a risk of Dan or the Stranger being sued here. The balls comment is idiotic, what is Dan backing down from?
I was fine with the initial post - it made a point at least - and I'm find with this decision. Dan got their attention (obviously) and now Ginter will surely be considering how Dan will react to a future piece of shit report of hers. Surely Dan is now in her head, which is probably the best thing that could happen for her reporting.
Now it's all people whining about what a wuss Dan is (maybe, but whatever), how stupid it is to stop the stunt, and saying Dan doesn't have balls. Why exactly doesn't he have balls? As he explained (and I explained in an earlier comment and anyone with a elementary working knowledge of libel law would have explained), there really isn't a risk of Dan or the Stranger being sued here. The balls comment is idiotic, what is Dan backing down from?
I was fine with the initial post - it made a point at least - and I'm find with this decision. Dan got their attention (obviously) and now Ginter will surely be considering how Dan will react to a future piece of shit report of hers. Surely Dan is now in her head, which is probably the best thing that could happen for her reporting.
48
you all of you are hateful people. komo does god knows how many stories a day and you're all still stuck on this one from a week ago. let it go. do something useful with your energy and time, and no, whining about a story and calling for the head of a local reporter is not a good use. BTW, marlee's done hundreds of stories since working here, is everyone here saying one bad one completely wipes out all of the good ones? jeez, get off your soapbox and try to think if the same standard was held to you.
50
Did any of this result in a retraction from KOMO or on=air apology from Ginter? No? Then what was the point of backing down? KOMO just proved they can get away with shitty non-stories like this with no real repercussions.
52
Sooo... we can still send angry letters demanding an apology and a retraction from the [damn fine journalist], right?
Thanks for the update - I was sending reference links to my proofreader friend before I sent in my angry letter and was wondering where the goat posts went.
Thanks for the update - I was sending reference links to my proofreader friend before I sent in my angry letter and was wondering where the goat posts went.
53
A lesson was learned, despite the lack of clear-cut retribution. We got a (or another) lesson about shitty journalism. Ginter probably (hopefully, maybe) will think again before spinning a bunch of bullshit, and reusing and misplacing old interviews. Seems like a good place to end it. I was entertained. I'm somewhat proud that Dan let it go like this. What was to be gained if it had continued? Not much.
54
@48: Uh, most of us are held to the same standard. Or do you have some kind of job where you're encouraged to deliberately distort facts when you don't find reality to your liking? I guess it's okay if you only do it once in a while, right?
55
Thank god all that goat blowing shits been taken down. NSFW. I can now resume slog watching at work until the next ruminant quadroped incident.
56
I think you should put the goat shit back up until there is a retraction. Local news needs to be put on notice, that the culture of fear is out of business.
57
Where's the apology? What are KOMO and Ginter? The Leibermans of media? And you represent the Democratic party?
58
I'm calling bullshit. You overplayed your hand perhaps but I'd prefer you stuck to your guns.
You can attach all the verbiage you want to the cowardly deed of abandoning your campaign against Marlee Ginter but we see you.
Playing artful bomber goes south real quick if you're not discriminating enough to take on the sure-win battles and fan on the well matched ones.
You know you didn't feel like showing up for court all the time and burning through the war chest over this transient dummy who's not even going to work in this market in 18 months. I may be mistaken but it even seems you got soft on your own journalistic ethics back pedaling off this one (quietly editing your blog posts instead of amending and noting them?)
Go fry some bigger fish with fewer legal resources I guess, but I really wish you'd roll up your sleeves and playout the fight you just picked more admirably.
You can attach all the verbiage you want to the cowardly deed of abandoning your campaign against Marlee Ginter but we see you.
Playing artful bomber goes south real quick if you're not discriminating enough to take on the sure-win battles and fan on the well matched ones.
You know you didn't feel like showing up for court all the time and burning through the war chest over this transient dummy who's not even going to work in this market in 18 months. I may be mistaken but it even seems you got soft on your own journalistic ethics back pedaling off this one (quietly editing your blog posts instead of amending and noting them?)
Go fry some bigger fish with fewer legal resources I guess, but I really wish you'd roll up your sleeves and playout the fight you just picked more admirably.
59
Great news. Now I can go back to blowing goats without it having the tawdry connotations that this shameful rag brought to mind.
My mouth and my goat thank you.
My mouth and my goat thank you.
60
You're right -- I'll never believe it. But I'm satisfied that this is as much as I'll know and I'm glad you didn't just clam up about it. Thanks for schooling the big kids.
61
That goat is so cute. I love goats, but not enough to sexually service them, contrary to popular opinion.
I'm so sorry I overreached myself in that sex club story. I'm a young woman trying to make a career for myself, and I had some encouragement from management to just "go for it" on that sex club story. I'm sorry. I'm from the midwest, and didn't know any better. I will endeavor to do better in future. Once again, my sincerest apologies to anyone I might have hurt.
I'm so sorry I overreached myself in that sex club story. I'm a young woman trying to make a career for myself, and I had some encouragement from management to just "go for it" on that sex club story. I'm sorry. I'm from the midwest, and didn't know any better. I will endeavor to do better in future. Once again, my sincerest apologies to anyone I might have hurt.
62
@61
Yeah that's nice. Nice and safe at #61 in a comments thread on a blog. Have you called Mr. Alexander yet? The way you treated him is the main thing that pissed me off.
Yeah that's nice. Nice and safe at #61 in a comments thread on a blog. Have you called Mr. Alexander yet? The way you treated him is the main thing that pissed me off.
64
@61, if you're going to fake post, at least get the facts right:
Marlee Ginter joined KOMO-TV as a reporter in August 2007. Marlee was born in the Philippines, and later moved with her family to the United States. She grew up in New York and later moved to Florida... Growing up on the East Coast, I never knew I was missing out on such a beautiful place.
http://www.komonews.com/about/people/fou…
Fucking stupid douchebag.
Marlee Ginter joined KOMO-TV as a reporter in August 2007. Marlee was born in the Philippines, and later moved with her family to the United States. She grew up in New York and later moved to Florida... Growing up on the East Coast, I never knew I was missing out on such a beautiful place.
http://www.komonews.com/about/people/fou…
Fucking stupid douchebag.
65
So, let's review.
Dan didn't like a story on the tv news. Dan threw a big ol' hissy fit and said a lot of nasty things about a reporter on his blog, while demanding an apology. A lawyer and a station manager told him that he's being a douchebag and to knock it off. They NEVER apologized or issued a retraction or correction. Dan changed the posts on Sunday, but didn't say why until Monday afternoon when commenters had taunted him enough. Then, he threatens in said post that he might (gasp) actually "restore the posts to their original state" if any commenters or "Ginterphiles" *dare* provoke him on this any further.
Nice work. You should get a big fat Christmas bonus for this fine piece of journalism.
Dan didn't like a story on the tv news. Dan threw a big ol' hissy fit and said a lot of nasty things about a reporter on his blog, while demanding an apology. A lawyer and a station manager told him that he's being a douchebag and to knock it off. They NEVER apologized or issued a retraction or correction. Dan changed the posts on Sunday, but didn't say why until Monday afternoon when commenters had taunted him enough. Then, he threatens in said post that he might (gasp) actually "restore the posts to their original state" if any commenters or "Ginterphiles" *dare* provoke him on this any further.
Nice work. You should get a big fat Christmas bonus for this fine piece of journalism.
66
Bullying behavior can be identified as early as pre-school age, and some children who are bullies continue this behavior into adulthood. Most children learn to control their anger and fighting instincts as they grow older, but not the bully. Bullies have particular behavior and personality traits.
* greater than average aggressive behavior patterns
* the desire to dominate peers
* the need to feel in control, to win
* no sense of remorse for hurting another child
* a refusal to accept responsibility for his/her behavior
* greater than average aggressive behavior patterns
* the desire to dominate peers
* the need to feel in control, to win
* no sense of remorse for hurting another child
* a refusal to accept responsibility for his/her behavior
67
#66:
Don't forget that bullies are usually leaders of dimwitted packs.
"so is it still okay to email nasty letters to KOMO?"
Really? Really?
Don't forget that bullies are usually leaders of dimwitted packs.
"so is it still okay to email nasty letters to KOMO?"
Really? Really?
68
It's fun and amusing to blow this particular news story by KOMO out of proportion, but we should be talking about the bigger lies told to us by not only the local, but the national media. And the control of information that occurs during media consolidation.
Anyone that puts their hope into local nightly news as the bastion of journalistic integrity and content are full of unrealistic expectations, egregiously uninformed or ignorant. The format alone of local nightly news only allows for fluff journalism, let alone the management and production decisions from the station heads. Live reporter on the street: entertaining, yes. truly informative, no. The sex club story: who would honestly remember this if The Stranger didn't make it explode? Marlee Ginter: it's the institution of media and local news that is to blame. She's only doing what she's been taught at the station and college. Not everyone is Howard Beale ("I'm mad as hell! And I'm not going to take it anymore!" - Network [1976]) or Edward Murrow (Good Night, and Good Luck [2005]).
The Stranger feeds off the mistakes of other institutions: media, political, and other; and rightfully so. I would even say that The Stranger battles the tyranny of the majority, local and national. But because The Stranger makes no claim (or desire I think) to be the bastion of journalistic integrity, it is sometimes hard to swallow and sift through the irony and sarcasm that borders on tyranny.
But the fact that The Stranger, an independent alternative newspaper, has the power to be tyrannical, is mighty impressive.
In a nutshell, don't blame the silly news reporter, blame the institution of media, which IS changeable. I hope.
www.freepress.net
www.reclaimthemedia.org
www.mediamatters.org
More...
Anyone that puts their hope into local nightly news as the bastion of journalistic integrity and content are full of unrealistic expectations, egregiously uninformed or ignorant. The format alone of local nightly news only allows for fluff journalism, let alone the management and production decisions from the station heads. Live reporter on the street: entertaining, yes. truly informative, no. The sex club story: who would honestly remember this if The Stranger didn't make it explode? Marlee Ginter: it's the institution of media and local news that is to blame. She's only doing what she's been taught at the station and college. Not everyone is Howard Beale ("I'm mad as hell! And I'm not going to take it anymore!" - Network [1976]) or Edward Murrow (Good Night, and Good Luck [2005]).
The Stranger feeds off the mistakes of other institutions: media, political, and other; and rightfully so. I would even say that The Stranger battles the tyranny of the majority, local and national. But because The Stranger makes no claim (or desire I think) to be the bastion of journalistic integrity, it is sometimes hard to swallow and sift through the irony and sarcasm that borders on tyranny.
But the fact that The Stranger, an independent alternative newspaper, has the power to be tyrannical, is mighty impressive.
In a nutshell, don't blame the silly news reporter, blame the institution of media, which IS changeable. I hope.
www.freepress.net
www.reclaimthemedia.org
www.mediamatters.org
69
@58
Sammie Cheese is right on. Sammie hit the nail on the head. The Stranger is gutless. The Stranger is a cowardly spent force, impotent, and all used up. Fuck the Stranger. Long live the King.
Sammie Cheese is right on. Sammie hit the nail on the head. The Stranger is gutless. The Stranger is a cowardly spent force, impotent, and all used up. Fuck the Stranger. Long live the King.
70
Call it Schadenfreude if you want, but I admit to getting some pleasure watching the Savage have his ass handed to him and trying to save face with a pathetic explanation several days after the fact. Marlee Ginter surely hasn't learned anything from this, except that Dan Savage is an asshole. But Savage maybe, possibly learned that you better think twice before you bully someone mercilessly who actually has access to a team of lawyers. In any case, Savage really lost all credibility with this one. If you were a real man, you'd at least admit the truth instead of pretending you censored all your posts, without even an apology from KOMO, just "to be nice." LAME
71
You shouldn't have changed the posts. You should have told KOMO to fuck off, let it drop, moved on to other things, and let the posts stand. Your decision was wrong and cowardly and sends KOMO the wrong message.
72
See what I get for being nice-ish?
I made my point, I pounded it home. They asked us to please not saddle Ginter with "goat blower" for the rest of her natural life, so we tweaked the posts. And now I've had my ass handed to me, caved, etc. Sheesh.
I made my point, I pounded it home. They asked us to please not saddle Ginter with "goat blower" for the rest of her natural life, so we tweaked the posts. And now I've had my ass handed to me, caved, etc. Sheesh.
73
Let's hope she learns the true spirit of [damn fine journalism] and produces a more sex-positive piece next time.
74
The real reason Dan gave up the fight was to put all his attention and resources into the Savage vs. Kutcher fight. I can't wait to read more of that fascinating email exchange.
76
Um, anne @ #71, Savage/Keck got threatened with a lawsuit and shit a brick. They don't care all that much about the principle of the KOMO/sex club thing if it might cost them a lot of money or inconvenience them in some way. The Stranger did exactly what KOMO told them to do. KOMO won.
77
KOMO GM: "Ginter was very, very, very, very upset and wouldn't we pretty please take her feelings into consideration and stop suggesting that she might be [a damn fine journalist]? Please?"
Dan: "So apologize."
KOMO GM: "???"
I'm really curious what excuse he gave for not doing the right thing himself.
Dan: "So apologize."
KOMO GM: "???"
I'm really curious what excuse he gave for not doing the right thing himself.
78
It is now time to restrict access to Slog. No more dropouts from court-ordered anger management class! Sheesh, this is about as tiresome as a Slog thread can get (which is saying something). Naturally, therefore, I (the dolt that I am) shall add my two cents.
@70 and friends, you are idiots. Either that, or you are part of the "team of lawyers" to which KOMO has access. Seriously, though, if you think this little story merits the attention of a "team of lawyers," you know very little. And may be little in some ways.
Is it possible--can you and your mad brethren commenters try to shake that toxic bolus of gelatin between your ears to ponder--d'ya think--that maybe just maybe Savage (who is very nice, really, at least most of the time) knows when a story is played out, knows when it's time to move on? Can you just try to apprehend the chance, however outlying it may be in your cramped, angry sphere, that letting Ms. Mar-lee Ginter off the hook in this way, rather than continuing to insist on an apology, is not only "nice," but concludes this story in a way that is more damning of her? After all, who but the most insignificant and harmless among us deserve such charity and consideration? De-fanged, perhaps she can now be ignored.
No? Not possible? You want to attack Savage for not being a "real man" instead? Thought so. That'll get him good.
@70 and friends, you are idiots. Either that, or you are part of the "team of lawyers" to which KOMO has access. Seriously, though, if you think this little story merits the attention of a "team of lawyers," you know very little. And may be little in some ways.
Is it possible--can you and your mad brethren commenters try to shake that toxic bolus of gelatin between your ears to ponder--d'ya think--that maybe just maybe Savage (who is very nice, really, at least most of the time) knows when a story is played out, knows when it's time to move on? Can you just try to apprehend the chance, however outlying it may be in your cramped, angry sphere, that letting Ms. Mar-lee Ginter off the hook in this way, rather than continuing to insist on an apology, is not only "nice," but concludes this story in a way that is more damning of her? After all, who but the most insignificant and harmless among us deserve such charity and consideration? De-fanged, perhaps she can now be ignored.
No? Not possible? You want to attack Savage for not being a "real man" instead? Thought so. That'll get him good.
79
Being nice, Dan? You mean it never occurred to you that it might hurt Marlee's feelings, your posting over and over again that she sucks off goats? It just never occurred to you that that wasn't "nice" until KOMO's lawyers told you? And then you forgot all about her hit piece on the sex club...cause you didn't want poor Marlee's feelings to be hurt? Um, yeah, right.
All you had to do was insist that KOMO issue an apology to the sex club and then nobody would have questioned your censoring the posts. It's not too late -- just tell them to apologize or the posts get un-censored and you continue your righteous crusade against Marlee.
All you had to do was insist that KOMO issue an apology to the sex club and then nobody would have questioned your censoring the posts. It's not too late -- just tell them to apologize or the posts get un-censored and you continue your righteous crusade against Marlee.
81
Beware Cult Of Dan faithful:
Your leader will, someday quite soon, grow weary --nay, bored-- of his "stalwart transplanted fag queen of Seattle" status and move on to larger, greener pastures. The writing, my friends, is on the wall. Regular and timely appearances on national teevee (Amen, Daniel!) programming, coupled with a resume headlined by capitalized Editorship Position, mean there are plenty of tasty big-league carrots dangling in front of his nose.
Who wants to wager on how long St. Dan will look over his shoulder after pulling up his drawers and walking out of Seattle's bedroom? I'm betting a quick wink is all you'll get.
You are forewarned.
Your leader will, someday quite soon, grow weary --nay, bored-- of his "stalwart transplanted fag queen of Seattle" status and move on to larger, greener pastures. The writing, my friends, is on the wall. Regular and timely appearances on national teevee (Amen, Daniel!) programming, coupled with a resume headlined by capitalized Editorship Position, mean there are plenty of tasty big-league carrots dangling in front of his nose.
Who wants to wager on how long St. Dan will look over his shoulder after pulling up his drawers and walking out of Seattle's bedroom? I'm betting a quick wink is all you'll get.
You are forewarned.
82
this stupid story merited one post, which would have been funny, but dan kept posting and posting and doing videos and so on. but he knows when a story is played out, 78? yeah right.
going after some pathetic tv reporter like that is just so bullying and nasty - but suddenly dan is nice? cause some lawyer asked him to be? you wonder why most people don't buy it dan?
going after some pathetic tv reporter like that is just so bullying and nasty - but suddenly dan is nice? cause some lawyer asked him to be? you wonder why most people don't buy it dan?
83
@82 if you were the Center for Sex and Everything it Stands For, or whatever it's called, or that writer Alexander, I don't think you'd find Dan's stories "bullying and nasty." How'd you like your perfectly legal, very popular business to be given the KOMO treatment?
That being said, I, like you, was ready for the story to conclude a while ago. But I'm ADD.
That being said, I, like you, was ready for the story to conclude a while ago. But I'm ADD.
84
I wonder how many references to Ginter being a [damn fine journalist] could be planted around the internet for search engines to find. It could almost be like a contest. Like a 'Ginter' siting. I am betting if people were really creative, placement could be far and wide.
Basically, the type of sensationalism that this [damn fine journalist] was attempting to do should be rewarded with a loss of job. The very least it should result in is a public appology. There is another avenue that can be pursued as well. A formal complaint to the FCC by each viewer that thought KOMO was abusing their use of the airwaves by trying to insight 'a problem' with their problem solvers.
What we permit, we promote. Dont let these cheeseballs get away with this and dont forget what they are. If they cant admit what they did was wrong. Dont forget what they did.
Thats my opinion. I am sure yours may vary.
Basically, the type of sensationalism that this [damn fine journalist] was attempting to do should be rewarded with a loss of job. The very least it should result in is a public appology. There is another avenue that can be pursued as well. A formal complaint to the FCC by each viewer that thought KOMO was abusing their use of the airwaves by trying to insight 'a problem' with their problem solvers.
What we permit, we promote. Dont let these cheeseballs get away with this and dont forget what they are. If they cant admit what they did was wrong. Dont forget what they did.
Thats my opinion. I am sure yours may vary.
85
I wonder how many references to Ginter being a [damn fine journalist] could be planted around the internet for search engines to find. It could almost be like a contest. Like a 'Ginter' siting. I am betting if people were really creative, placement could be far and wide.
Basically, the type of sensationalism that this [damn fine journalist] was attempting to do should be rewarded with a loss of job. The very least it should result in is a public appology. There is another avenue that can be pursued as well. A formal complaint to the FCC by each viewer that thought KOMO was abusing their use of the airwaves by trying to insight 'a problem' with their problem solvers.
What we permit, we promote. Dont let these cheeseballs get away with this and dont forget what they are. If they cant admit what they did was wrong. Dont forget what they did.
Thats my opinion. I am sure yours may vary.
Basically, the type of sensationalism that this [damn fine journalist] was attempting to do should be rewarded with a loss of job. The very least it should result in is a public appology. There is another avenue that can be pursued as well. A formal complaint to the FCC by each viewer that thought KOMO was abusing their use of the airwaves by trying to insight 'a problem' with their problem solvers.
What we permit, we promote. Dont let these cheeseballs get away with this and dont forget what they are. If they cant admit what they did was wrong. Dont forget what they did.
Thats my opinion. I am sure yours may vary.
87
@78 amen. Slog fights can be entertaining, but sometimes it's exhausting to watch the toxic mood swings in comments. Dan did something none of you did--putting himself out there with the attack in the first place and loads of people cheer. People jeer. People jump up and down in glee. Some people don't and call names.
So now he judges that his point is made. Disagree if you want, but his call on this doesn't warrant the tantrums spewed all over these pages. You want to keep it going? Go out and make your own videos and put them on youtube--nothing is stopping you. Take responisiblity into your own hands.
People love you then the same people hate you. Kind of head spinning making.
So now he judges that his point is made. Disagree if you want, but his call on this doesn't warrant the tantrums spewed all over these pages. You want to keep it going? Go out and make your own videos and put them on youtube--nothing is stopping you. Take responisiblity into your own hands.
People love you then the same people hate you. Kind of head spinning making.
88
Some people need to revise their anger management tactics. I'm still disappointed KOMO won't send an apology to the Center OR their viewers, but at least they pulled the story. And the goat sucking bit *was* a little over the top, even if I did snort cereal milk out my nose first time I heard it.
Keep up the satire, Dan. It's what we enjoy.
Keep up the satire, Dan. It's what we enjoy.
90
I would have kept it up, at least until she apologized. I don't care that she's hurt, she should apologize because her work was provably bad.
While its nice to appeal to feelings every once in a while, this kind of thing shouldn't be left to slide, and this tactic is much better than anything else done by more 'proper' or 'official' means.
Besides, it was hilarious.
While its nice to appeal to feelings every once in a while, this kind of thing shouldn't be left to slide, and this tactic is much better than anything else done by more 'proper' or 'official' means.
Besides, it was hilarious.
91
Dan, I will always love you for taking this issue as far as you have. And, people, one week is not "beating a dead horse."
Being nice is... nice, but I say change it back if you want to, Dan. The original line was *not* an over-reaction. She deserved it.
Being nice is... nice, but I say change it back if you want to, Dan. The original line was *not* an over-reaction. She deserved it.
92
@3 This. Humanity is definitely not a reason to take down your previous posts. If anything, humanity would be supporting the minority population you purportedly represent, and not caving to a spoiled small-town girl stomping her feet.
94
Dan, you're acting like a coward. You should have gotten your apology first. Poor, desparate goats are going un-blown and the crappy journalist is going to get away with more crappy journalism.
95
Calm down people!
I think The Stranger made its point. Marlee will certainly have a different perspective on her stories now though she may just see herself as the victim. The Stranger pointed out the errors it got noticed and they story hasn't been retracted. Unless the sex club is suffering repercussions, let it go.
It is over.
I think The Stranger made its point. Marlee will certainly have a different perspective on her stories now though she may just see herself as the victim. The Stranger pointed out the errors it got noticed and they story hasn't been retracted. Unless the sex club is suffering repercussions, let it go.
It is over.
97
As the director of the Center, I'm glad that Dan changed the goat piece. It was the only part of this whole mess that I wasn't comfortable with. You see, as much as I was unhappy with Ms. Ginter's story (which we really did end up benefiting a lot from, btw) she was doing her job (although badly) and the real culprits are her bosses who allowed it to air without fact checks and all the inaccuracies. I applaude Dan for taking the high road for once. :)
As for KOMO issuing an apology. Hah! That will never happen. Although I am looking forward to the check from them that they'll be sending the Center from all the Problem Solver Donations people have made. When that happens I'll make a copy of the check and frame it.
Allena
As for KOMO issuing an apology. Hah! That will never happen. Although I am looking forward to the check from them that they'll be sending the Center from all the Problem Solver Donations people have made. When that happens I'll make a copy of the check and frame it.
Allena
98
So, you stopped your name calling because they asked you to.
Ginter's story, though now appropriately maligned and made an example of, still remains without retraction, correction, or apology.
You let hurt feelings interfere with shining a light on an exploitative journalist who blatantly lied and misrepresented a business that many Seattleites favor.
Sorry, Dan, KOMO wins.
Ginter's story, though now appropriately maligned and made an example of, still remains without retraction, correction, or apology.
You let hurt feelings interfere with shining a light on an exploitative journalist who blatantly lied and misrepresented a business that many Seattleites favor.
Sorry, Dan, KOMO wins.
99
#72, if you really are dan, and i have to assume you are since the comment hasn't disappeared:
They asked us to please not saddle Ginter with "goat blower" for the rest of her natural life, so we tweaked the posts.
is an absurd excuse and an absurd description of the changes you made. why the fuck should you care what Ginter is saddled with? you made it immeasurably clear that you had no concern for her personal or professional well being since, to you, she was such a liar and so dishonest.
and "tweaked the posts"? you call re-naming them and taking out any reference to your original accusations "tweaking"? if this is a tweak, i'd love to see what a retraction would look like at the stranger.
the only thing i can imagine is that you either (a) got bored, (b) peed your pants when komo's lawyers gave you the option of 'being nice' or seeing them in court, or (c) truly believe you made your point. you're showing your true nature no matter what the reason: a bully and a coward.
They asked us to please not saddle Ginter with "goat blower" for the rest of her natural life, so we tweaked the posts.
is an absurd excuse and an absurd description of the changes you made. why the fuck should you care what Ginter is saddled with? you made it immeasurably clear that you had no concern for her personal or professional well being since, to you, she was such a liar and so dishonest.
and "tweaked the posts"? you call re-naming them and taking out any reference to your original accusations "tweaking"? if this is a tweak, i'd love to see what a retraction would look like at the stranger.
the only thing i can imagine is that you either (a) got bored, (b) peed your pants when komo's lawyers gave you the option of 'being nice' or seeing them in court, or (c) truly believe you made your point. you're showing your true nature no matter what the reason: a bully and a coward.
100
Once again - ALL of you who say that Dan caved because of the threat of a lawsuit really need to talk to a lawyer (or get some common sense). There was no threat of a lawsuit because there is nothing actionable in Dan's posts. LOOK IT UP. KOMO's lawyers know when they have a case and when they don't. There was no case here, so enough with the stupid-ass conspiracy theories. You'll just have to accept that Dan changed the posts because he wanted to. Disagree with that all you want, but you're going to have to find a different argument than these imaginary, would-never-happen legal threats.
Oh, and the posts surely had a serious effect, even without an apology from Ginter or KOMO (don't hold your breath). Every news outlet in this town will absolutely think twice before running a sex-negative piece like this again, regardless of whether they actually eventually apologized. And THAT'S THE POINT. Dan's posts were well-crafted satire that put everyone in the news industry in this town on notice. The fact that he didn't waste a month going after a literal apology is irrelevant. The effect is the same.
Oh, and the posts surely had a serious effect, even without an apology from Ginter or KOMO (don't hold your breath). Every news outlet in this town will absolutely think twice before running a sex-negative piece like this again, regardless of whether they actually eventually apologized. And THAT'S THE POINT. Dan's posts were well-crafted satire that put everyone in the news industry in this town on notice. The fact that he didn't waste a month going after a literal apology is irrelevant. The effect is the same.
102
@100 marlee would have an excellent case that dan was acting "with malice" by jamming the web with these references to sucking off goats, so that when you google her name that is what comes up on top. that clearly was meant to damage her and hurt her career, future earnings, etc. if a public figure can demonstrate malice, she can successfully sue for libel. and it is obvious to anyone with half a brain that dan got threatened with a lawsuit and backed down. 100, don't go lecturing about the law when you are ignorant of it yourself.
104
I have a sense that most people are generally good. And that given the opportunity to apologize for a misdeed, most people would do so... even if it takes some time for them to realize their misdeed.
In this case, Dan's response was so swift and directed, MG was left no room for contrition, only self-defense. She can't apologize, because, by our demands, we have made it impossible for her to claim that her apology is her own idea, instead of a response under duress.
I would suggest we stop with the references to our four-legged feta friend.
We are human after all.
I am a member of the Center for Sex Positive Culture.
In this case, Dan's response was so swift and directed, MG was left no room for contrition, only self-defense. She can't apologize, because, by our demands, we have made it impossible for her to claim that her apology is her own idea, instead of a response under duress.
I would suggest we stop with the references to our four-legged feta friend.
We are human after all.
I am a member of the Center for Sex Positive Culture.
106
Now that this is ending I want to take a look at it's effects. Who won and who lost.
Dan Savage and The Stranger are big winners. Page hits and views result in advertising dollars. That's what this was about. It was a slow week. Savage turned a non-issue into a raging controversy to generate traffic to his website. He created a piece of theater to keep his readers entertained. Every view and every post, including this one, helped to put money into his pocket.
KOMO also wins for the same reason. People visited their site to watch the story, view Ginter's profile, watch her past work and send a ton of hate mail. Increased viewership and web traffic result in greater advertising dollars.
The Sex Center wins. Their director is bragging a few posts up about how great this has been for them. All publicity is good publicity. The story was mild. Ginter did far more good than harm in her reporting. The center gets a ton of publicity and a ton of donatations. Why do you suppose they didn't take action against KOMO? Because they weren't harmed.
Ginter as a professional wins. She continues to make a name for herself in this town as a hard nosed journalist. Like it or not, her story was fair. She never had anything to apologize for. Her station never issued a retraction. She stood up to a bully and won. SLOG readers may not like it, but in mainstream culture (where most news viewers live) being attacked by The Stranger is a sign that you are doing something right.
Now for the losers.
SLOG readers are big losers here. You should expect more. While this was fun performance art, there was no real substance. An intelligent debate could have been framed, instead you got crass insults. This site has the power to educate and inform, instead you get juvenile name calling. You deserve better.
Free Speech loses. This site is stifling when it threatens to attack anyone with an unpopular view. (An interesting tactic for a minority group hoping to move their own points of view into the mainstream.)
Marlee Ginter as a person loses. Who would want to deal with this crap? I read on this site that she is a single mother. I suspect that it's hard enough raising a family on her own without having to endure the petty harassment of Dan Savage. She works to support her kids. Threats to her job are threats to her family.
What woman would want to read all of the threats on this site? I can only imagine what was in the hate mail you sent her. On this site I saw racial slurs, vulgar attacks, and numerous threats to rape her. Yes, when you threaten to perform involuntary sex acts to her, you are threatening to rape her. Maybe they intend to rape her, maybe it was "satire". Either way she has to live with those threats in the back of her mind.
The biggest losers in all of this are the Ginter children. Did you read the vile threats made to her kids? The Stranger deleted them after about a day, but the damage was done. Someone directly threatened one of her children with specific information. I read it. Thousands of people read it. At that point the Stranger should have pulled the plug, but the page hits were good and the money was coming in, so the show went on.
Kids can be cruel, but apparently Dan Savage, The Stranger and a portion of the readership don't feel that kids are cruel enough. Google Ginter's name and see what pops up. Think about what happens when her kids classmates google her. They will, she is on tv. Think about the years of harassment they will have to endure because of these childish attacks. The Stranger may have changed a few words, but it's still out there. In posts above people are bragging about this, and hoping to continue it.
At first I was inclined to give Savage a pass on this one. Chalk it up as an unintended consequence. Then one of the posts on this site informed me that Savage is a father. Surely he has dealt with this same issue. He has been attacked in the past. I can only imagine what his children will have to endure because of the things that are said about their father. It is not fair to his children, and it is certainly not fair to Ginters children. Their only crime was that their mom was an easy target on a slow news week when a website needed to make some money.
But hey, if some innocent kids need to suffer so Dan Savage can make a buck, so be it.
Just my opinion. I look forward to all of the "outrage" it will generate. I know Dan Savage will be happy for the page hits.
More...
Dan Savage and The Stranger are big winners. Page hits and views result in advertising dollars. That's what this was about. It was a slow week. Savage turned a non-issue into a raging controversy to generate traffic to his website. He created a piece of theater to keep his readers entertained. Every view and every post, including this one, helped to put money into his pocket.
KOMO also wins for the same reason. People visited their site to watch the story, view Ginter's profile, watch her past work and send a ton of hate mail. Increased viewership and web traffic result in greater advertising dollars.
The Sex Center wins. Their director is bragging a few posts up about how great this has been for them. All publicity is good publicity. The story was mild. Ginter did far more good than harm in her reporting. The center gets a ton of publicity and a ton of donatations. Why do you suppose they didn't take action against KOMO? Because they weren't harmed.
Ginter as a professional wins. She continues to make a name for herself in this town as a hard nosed journalist. Like it or not, her story was fair. She never had anything to apologize for. Her station never issued a retraction. She stood up to a bully and won. SLOG readers may not like it, but in mainstream culture (where most news viewers live) being attacked by The Stranger is a sign that you are doing something right.
Now for the losers.
SLOG readers are big losers here. You should expect more. While this was fun performance art, there was no real substance. An intelligent debate could have been framed, instead you got crass insults. This site has the power to educate and inform, instead you get juvenile name calling. You deserve better.
Free Speech loses. This site is stifling when it threatens to attack anyone with an unpopular view. (An interesting tactic for a minority group hoping to move their own points of view into the mainstream.)
Marlee Ginter as a person loses. Who would want to deal with this crap? I read on this site that she is a single mother. I suspect that it's hard enough raising a family on her own without having to endure the petty harassment of Dan Savage. She works to support her kids. Threats to her job are threats to her family.
What woman would want to read all of the threats on this site? I can only imagine what was in the hate mail you sent her. On this site I saw racial slurs, vulgar attacks, and numerous threats to rape her. Yes, when you threaten to perform involuntary sex acts to her, you are threatening to rape her. Maybe they intend to rape her, maybe it was "satire". Either way she has to live with those threats in the back of her mind.
The biggest losers in all of this are the Ginter children. Did you read the vile threats made to her kids? The Stranger deleted them after about a day, but the damage was done. Someone directly threatened one of her children with specific information. I read it. Thousands of people read it. At that point the Stranger should have pulled the plug, but the page hits were good and the money was coming in, so the show went on.
Kids can be cruel, but apparently Dan Savage, The Stranger and a portion of the readership don't feel that kids are cruel enough. Google Ginter's name and see what pops up. Think about what happens when her kids classmates google her. They will, she is on tv. Think about the years of harassment they will have to endure because of these childish attacks. The Stranger may have changed a few words, but it's still out there. In posts above people are bragging about this, and hoping to continue it.
At first I was inclined to give Savage a pass on this one. Chalk it up as an unintended consequence. Then one of the posts on this site informed me that Savage is a father. Surely he has dealt with this same issue. He has been attacked in the past. I can only imagine what his children will have to endure because of the things that are said about their father. It is not fair to his children, and it is certainly not fair to Ginters children. Their only crime was that their mom was an easy target on a slow news week when a website needed to make some money.
But hey, if some innocent kids need to suffer so Dan Savage can make a buck, so be it.
Just my opinion. I look forward to all of the "outrage" it will generate. I know Dan Savage will be happy for the page hits.
107
I don't want to hear any more whining from you about hack journalism. Not one freakin' word.
You had these asswipes. They were in the wrong, totally, clearly in the wrong. They lied, they did some creative editting, and they misled the subject of their hack job, and the people who watched the broadcast.
I loved your attack, and that's what it was, and I don't mean that in a bad way, and it's what they deserved.
Marlee Ginter, and Dan Lewis, and KOMO owed the Center and Mr. Andrews, and the viewers an apology, and a retraction. But as far as we can see, there has been no apology, no retraction, not even an admission that perhaps they misled the people about the story they presented. By taking it off their website, they are not admitting they made a mistake, but trying to hide the evidence.
You were making an excellent example of them, using their own tactics, and it was justified, and you had us with you. After all the politics, after all the division over Prop 8, we were once again united rallying for Dan, going after the bad guys.
But they cried foul, THEY had the nerve to cry foul, and you backed down.
Everyone is saying that they learned a lesson. I see no lesson learned here. I see that if you say pretty please, Dan Savage - what a misnomer -will back down. Someone should tell the Mormons, and the Californian African Americans.
But the part of this that smells the worst, is that you want us to believe that you did this because you're a nice guy. I don't think so, Dan. I just don't think so.
You had these asswipes. They were in the wrong, totally, clearly in the wrong. They lied, they did some creative editting, and they misled the subject of their hack job, and the people who watched the broadcast.
I loved your attack, and that's what it was, and I don't mean that in a bad way, and it's what they deserved.
Marlee Ginter, and Dan Lewis, and KOMO owed the Center and Mr. Andrews, and the viewers an apology, and a retraction. But as far as we can see, there has been no apology, no retraction, not even an admission that perhaps they misled the people about the story they presented. By taking it off their website, they are not admitting they made a mistake, but trying to hide the evidence.
You were making an excellent example of them, using their own tactics, and it was justified, and you had us with you. After all the politics, after all the division over Prop 8, we were once again united rallying for Dan, going after the bad guys.
But they cried foul, THEY had the nerve to cry foul, and you backed down.
Everyone is saying that they learned a lesson. I see no lesson learned here. I see that if you say pretty please, Dan Savage - what a misnomer -will back down. Someone should tell the Mormons, and the Californian African Americans.
But the part of this that smells the worst, is that you want us to believe that you did this because you're a nice guy. I don't think so, Dan. I just don't think so.
108
A filippino Pig Christian like Ginter has learned a valuable lesson. Sex negative Christians had better not mess with Dan Savage.
A a Jew living in Racist, Sexist, Sex Negative Seattle, I appreciate having an advocate on our side. When I moved here from Manhattan I was told how backwards Seattle is, but The Stranger is a breath of fresh air. A pro-Jewish, pro-Sex voice in the wilderness.
The filipino Christian Pig Ginter should leave town. Pig Christians and their piglets are not welcome here, lipstick or no lipstick. The Stranger rules Seattle now. Mazel Tov!
A a Jew living in Racist, Sexist, Sex Negative Seattle, I appreciate having an advocate on our side. When I moved here from Manhattan I was told how backwards Seattle is, but The Stranger is a breath of fresh air. A pro-Jewish, pro-Sex voice in the wilderness.
The filipino Christian Pig Ginter should leave town. Pig Christians and their piglets are not welcome here, lipstick or no lipstick. The Stranger rules Seattle now. Mazel Tov!
110
@106 - Oh no, we are not gonna go there. She doesn't get to play the single mom card, and common sense, you are not going to play it for her.
I read what you said, and my heart started to go out to her. See, I'm a single mom, and I'm just trying to make a living and support my child too.
But here's the thing. Before my daughter was born, I did do a few stupid things, maybe stuff I'm not so proud of. I never hurt anybody, and I didn't break any laws - possibly bent a few, but harmless, stupid stuff. After my daughter was born, I decided I would live my life like she was watching me all the time, even if she wasn't. I try to take the moral, ethical high road as often as I can. I don't claim to be perfect, and if/when I make a mistake, or wrong someone, I apologize, and I tell my daughter to do the same, and I am happy to have been told by her teachers that she is very respectful of others.
Marlee Ginter is a public figure, as you pointed out. And when you're in the public eye, and trusted to deliver the news, fairly and impartially, you should do so. If your bosses tell you to fabricate lies, you should refuse to do so. And if you do something wrong, you should own up to it. Set an example for your children.
And if you don't, and someone calls you out on it, and it ends up in the public eye, and your children and their friends see it, then suck it up, Princess. Karma's a bitch.
I read what you said, and my heart started to go out to her. See, I'm a single mom, and I'm just trying to make a living and support my child too.
But here's the thing. Before my daughter was born, I did do a few stupid things, maybe stuff I'm not so proud of. I never hurt anybody, and I didn't break any laws - possibly bent a few, but harmless, stupid stuff. After my daughter was born, I decided I would live my life like she was watching me all the time, even if she wasn't. I try to take the moral, ethical high road as often as I can. I don't claim to be perfect, and if/when I make a mistake, or wrong someone, I apologize, and I tell my daughter to do the same, and I am happy to have been told by her teachers that she is very respectful of others.
Marlee Ginter is a public figure, as you pointed out. And when you're in the public eye, and trusted to deliver the news, fairly and impartially, you should do so. If your bosses tell you to fabricate lies, you should refuse to do so. And if you do something wrong, you should own up to it. Set an example for your children.
And if you don't, and someone calls you out on it, and it ends up in the public eye, and your children and their friends see it, then suck it up, Princess. Karma's a bitch.
111
As Jews we have an obligation of Tikkun Olam. This Filipino Christian Pig Ginter chose to say it's not right to use public money to finance a sex club.
Christians are always anti-sex. So it is our duty in Tikkun Olam to teach this Christian Pig in lipstick, Ginter a lesson about Seattle. Ginter should have thought about her children before reporting anything anti-sex in Seattle.
The Stranger is the only consistently anti-Christian publication in Seattle. It takes balls to attack these Christian idiots and their children, but Dan Savage has always had balls enough to stand up for what's right.
If we keep up the attacks on Slog we can run the Filipino Christian pig in lipstick out of our town, she can pack up her Christian piglets and move to rural America.
Seattle is getting more like Manhattan where I moved from. We hate Christians there. Mazel Tov!
Christians are always anti-sex. So it is our duty in Tikkun Olam to teach this Christian Pig in lipstick, Ginter a lesson about Seattle. Ginter should have thought about her children before reporting anything anti-sex in Seattle.
The Stranger is the only consistently anti-Christian publication in Seattle. It takes balls to attack these Christian idiots and their children, but Dan Savage has always had balls enough to stand up for what's right.
If we keep up the attacks on Slog we can run the Filipino Christian pig in lipstick out of our town, she can pack up her Christian piglets and move to rural America.
Seattle is getting more like Manhattan where I moved from. We hate Christians there. Mazel Tov!
112
Her feelings were that hurt by an obvious parody suggesting she might suck off goats? Christ this woman needs a thicker skin.
113
KOMO is selectively refusing to pass on donations made me through its Problem Solvers webpage to people or organizations featured on it’s program.
I just got an e-mail that contained this:
KOMO is retuning or crediting your contribution to the Center for Positive Sex Culture or the Foundation for Positive Sex Culture.
Dan, I too am very, very upset. Please put the gloves back on and give them what they deserve
I just got an e-mail that contained this:
KOMO is retuning or crediting your contribution to the Center for Positive Sex Culture or the Foundation for Positive Sex Culture.
Dan, I too am very, very upset. Please put the gloves back on and give them what they deserve
115
Dan,
I, too, received the email returning/crediting my donations to the "Center for Positive Sex Culture" and "the Foundation for Positive Sex Culture." Notice that KOMO didn't even get the names right?!?! And they have done this only after having the combined total of the donations kept in their accounts for a week and collecting interest on them! (Ok, so that is probably a small amount, but it is still the principle of the issue.)
What have they been doing? Trying to find a way to legally redirect donated funds clearly marked as designated "to help someone featured in one of our stories," as explicitly stated on their website?
There are still no disclaimers on the KOMO site about their selectivity of donations they receive. How many other organizations or individuals featured in their "Problem Solvers" stories have they maliciously declared unworthy of donations due to their own personal and corporate biases? How many donations from other people have been redirected by KOMO away from the intended recipient of some story they have done in the past? Perhaps they were less clearly identified as for a specific individual/group or left a window of potential for KOMO's interpretation. How many donations were sent in for CSPC or FSPC that KOMO found a way to redirect rather than refund? How can a publicly operated "News" organization bound by the licensing rules of the FCC demonstrate such clear and malicious bias with impunity?
I donated to both the CSPC and the FSPC, so any potential claim that it is because of the CSPC's 501(c)7 status, rather than 501(c)3, would be irrelevant for returning my Foundation donation. Either of the organizations are still legally recognized as able to accept donations by the IRS. That cannot be said of the vast majority of stories on KOMO's "Problem Solvers" or the individuals involved. How dare they misrepresent themselves and their "Problem Solvers" as intending to benefit the community when they obviously only intend to benefit those with whom they agree, all while defaming everyone who believes otherwise?!?!? That's not news; it's propaganda!
The talking asses at KOMO are choosing to refuse donations to organizations that have been legitimately recognized by the IRS as non-profit and charitable organizations.
You were too kind, Dan, when you wrote that only "Marlee Ginter Might Be Blowing Goats," and you were certainly too quick to be gracious and compassionate to her in the end. Notice they waited until you did so before they "returned" what they deemed to be unsuitable donations?
I agree with #113. You need to put the gloves back on. AND This time, make them pay in currency! Don't take down or back off on the "Goat Blowing" reports and anything else you come up with until KOMO itself has paid CSPC and FSPC all the money for which they legitimately received donations through the "Problem Solvers Donation Page." Allena Gabosch should have receipts from many people who forwarded them to her. I want to see KOMO pay from THEIR OWN Pockets this time!
Seriously, Dan. If KOMO can be allowed to continue to misrepresent, distort, and fabricate "stories" like this to defame others all in an effort for sensationalism and ratings, who is going to be next? Who is deciding what is "news" here in Seattle? If this kind of behavior--from KOMO or any of the other "news" organizations--is allowed to continue unchecked, it will be our own PNW version of Joseph McCarthy!
Please help us fight off this latest version of McCarthyism, Dan!
More...
I, too, received the email returning/crediting my donations to the "Center for Positive Sex Culture" and "the Foundation for Positive Sex Culture." Notice that KOMO didn't even get the names right?!?! And they have done this only after having the combined total of the donations kept in their accounts for a week and collecting interest on them! (Ok, so that is probably a small amount, but it is still the principle of the issue.)
What have they been doing? Trying to find a way to legally redirect donated funds clearly marked as designated "to help someone featured in one of our stories," as explicitly stated on their website?
There are still no disclaimers on the KOMO site about their selectivity of donations they receive. How many other organizations or individuals featured in their "Problem Solvers" stories have they maliciously declared unworthy of donations due to their own personal and corporate biases? How many donations from other people have been redirected by KOMO away from the intended recipient of some story they have done in the past? Perhaps they were less clearly identified as for a specific individual/group or left a window of potential for KOMO's interpretation. How many donations were sent in for CSPC or FSPC that KOMO found a way to redirect rather than refund? How can a publicly operated "News" organization bound by the licensing rules of the FCC demonstrate such clear and malicious bias with impunity?
I donated to both the CSPC and the FSPC, so any potential claim that it is because of the CSPC's 501(c)7 status, rather than 501(c)3, would be irrelevant for returning my Foundation donation. Either of the organizations are still legally recognized as able to accept donations by the IRS. That cannot be said of the vast majority of stories on KOMO's "Problem Solvers" or the individuals involved. How dare they misrepresent themselves and their "Problem Solvers" as intending to benefit the community when they obviously only intend to benefit those with whom they agree, all while defaming everyone who believes otherwise?!?!? That's not news; it's propaganda!
The talking asses at KOMO are choosing to refuse donations to organizations that have been legitimately recognized by the IRS as non-profit and charitable organizations.
You were too kind, Dan, when you wrote that only "Marlee Ginter Might Be Blowing Goats," and you were certainly too quick to be gracious and compassionate to her in the end. Notice they waited until you did so before they "returned" what they deemed to be unsuitable donations?
I agree with #113. You need to put the gloves back on. AND This time, make them pay in currency! Don't take down or back off on the "Goat Blowing" reports and anything else you come up with until KOMO itself has paid CSPC and FSPC all the money for which they legitimately received donations through the "Problem Solvers Donation Page." Allena Gabosch should have receipts from many people who forwarded them to her. I want to see KOMO pay from THEIR OWN Pockets this time!
Seriously, Dan. If KOMO can be allowed to continue to misrepresent, distort, and fabricate "stories" like this to defame others all in an effort for sensationalism and ratings, who is going to be next? Who is deciding what is "news" here in Seattle? If this kind of behavior--from KOMO or any of the other "news" organizations--is allowed to continue unchecked, it will be our own PNW version of Joseph McCarthy!
Please help us fight off this latest version of McCarthyism, Dan!
116
Bwahhahahhahahaha. KOMO won. KOMO won. KOMO won. KOMO won. KOMO won. KOMO won. KOMO won. KOMO won. KOMO won. KOMO won. KOMO won. KOMO won. KOMO won. KOMO won. KOMO won. KOMO won. KOMO won. KOMO won. KOMO won. KOMO won. KOMO won.
117
@106, I am a member of the CSPC and I feel that a place I love has been attacked unfairly in the mainstream press. That piece was not accurate, and it was not 'fair' by any sense of the word I understand. I am a loser here. And I don't appreciate having my justifiable anger sacrificed on the altar of poor Ms. Ginter's wounded feelings and the delicate sensibilities of her children.
My membership fees are not tax-deductible. Portraying the center as a sex-club is a misleading half-truth. Using fake cheesy soft-porn and passing it off as a center activity is an insult. Calling Allena an 'owner' is a flat out lie. Saying that she's looking for state or federal funding for anything is also a big fat lie.
I do not insist that any piece about the center be positive. But I do insist that pieces at least not blatantly lie, and do not engage in creative editing to twist people's words into saying things they did not mean.
My membership fees are not tax-deductible. Portraying the center as a sex-club is a misleading half-truth. Using fake cheesy soft-porn and passing it off as a center activity is an insult. Calling Allena an 'owner' is a flat out lie. Saying that she's looking for state or federal funding for anything is also a big fat lie.
I do not insist that any piece about the center be positive. But I do insist that pieces at least not blatantly lie, and do not engage in creative editing to twist people's words into saying things they did not mean.
118
On the one hand, Ms. Ginter simply got back the same that she gave, but it is never wrong to show mercy when you have the position of power. I believe that Ms. Ginter will think twice before creating further defamatory work. You have shown her what it feels like to be on the receiving end.
119
I think targetting one journalist who *might* be inept and deceitful is justifiable but, ultimately, ineffective in changing the culture which led to what *might* have been such a deliberately deceitful report.
The management at KOMO must have approved that story. They have removed it but they haven't retracted it or apologized for it. Until they do, I suggest that some people *might* stop watching KOMO News on the basis that they *might* never know when KOMO News is telling the truth or deliberately misleading the viewers. Some people *might* want to switch to some other news program.
The management at KOMO must have approved that story. They have removed it but they haven't retracted it or apologized for it. Until they do, I suggest that some people *might* stop watching KOMO News on the basis that they *might* never know when KOMO News is telling the truth or deliberately misleading the viewers. Some people *might* want to switch to some other news program.
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