Slog
News & ArtsMonday, November 24, 2008
Politics Re: Human Spam
Posted by Dominic Holden on Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 12:01 PM
Dan's back at his crusade against canvassers on the sidewalk. He argues that if we would just stop talking to the "human spam" and giving them money, they would go away. But they shouldn't go away. If we don't like them, we should go away—just walk right past them. However, some people want to stop and listen, as Dan's photo shows...
Yesterday in the Pike Place Market, an ACLU canvasser asked for my time. Being considerate of people with shitty jobs—especially those taking low-end jobs for a good cause—I talked him. (I'm also a former canvasser and former ACLU employee.) The ACLU is part of the central legal effort to reverse California's bigoted Proposition 8. That measure was funded, as we know, by a multi-million dollar infusion orchestrated by the Mormon Church. Secular liberals don't have a church that calls on me and my ilk to give money to stuff we care about (although some good individuals go to great lengths to help fund great projects, but that's no match for the steady, year-round work of a national organization). The ACLU needs those trusty card-carrying members to pay for its lawyers, it's Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transgender Project, etc. One of the best ways to find new members is by talking to folks on the street. And it works! That's why the ACLU does it.
Sure, it's kind of annoying. But so were those ads for Christine Gregoire every five minutes in October... and those are the sort of minor inconveniences that help our side to win.
And it could be worse, ya know. Those folks on the street could be like the Clearwire people just selling us crap. Or it could be those crazy screaming Christians with the signs the size of sails. Or the canvassers could be coming to our doors.
1
Door canvassers for WashPIRG aren't likely to come to your door if you live somewhere in Capitol Hill. I think they branch out to the suburbs and they work from 3 to 10, I believe. Day canvassers go for the hot spots like Republican and Broadway, the Peet's next to the Fremont bridge, et al. Doors = "families" Sidewalks = "density"
2
Did you even read Dan's post? You completely missed what he was saying..
If we don't like them, we should go away—just walk right past them.
Did you even read Dan's post? You completely missed what he was saying..
And then... the human spam started approaching people who couldn't walk on by, people who couldn't brush past 'em. You know, there really ought to be a law against human spam approaching actual humans standing in a line to buy hot dogs from a cart.
3
They come to Fremont all the time.
Look, I'm a member of some of the groups, but it really gets annoying being asked to help even more.
And where did you find hot dogs? Are they bratwursts, N?
Look, I'm a member of some of the groups, but it really gets annoying being asked to help even more.
And where did you find hot dogs? Are they bratwursts, N?
4
I'm opposed to canvassers--or homeless people or anyone, really--babbling at a captive audience. But that was a secondary point. Dan's central idea in today's post and a couple years ago is that we should never give to these fundraisers. And I don't buy it. These people are building several of the organizations that drive the progressive agenda. The tactics may be annoying, but they're worth it.
5
Dan lives in his own world of wealth and phobia ...sort of Howard Hughes ...
In the FREE America which we all should cherish, folks are FREE to earn a living by many means, and selling is certainly one of them.
In fact, Dan sell his shit too. Just not on the sidewalk.
I have never had a problem with a friendly - "not at all interested, thanks" - seems to work fine.
What is the rub? I am sure street prospecting is outlawed in most communist countries and in many Asia mind control - all control regimes. Not in a FREE country.
Want that? I don't.
You fear them, stay home in the bubble.
Remember, a little attitude and a firm no thanks works.
In the FREE America which we all should cherish, folks are FREE to earn a living by many means, and selling is certainly one of them.
In fact, Dan sell his shit too. Just not on the sidewalk.
I have never had a problem with a friendly - "not at all interested, thanks" - seems to work fine.
What is the rub? I am sure street prospecting is outlawed in most communist countries and in many Asia mind control - all control regimes. Not in a FREE country.
Want that? I don't.
You fear them, stay home in the bubble.
Remember, a little attitude and a firm no thanks works.
6
I think the only reason people stop to talk to them is they always pick the hotties to do the chugging.
7
Memo to everybody who's pissed off about these folks: STFU!
This is an aquisition strategy, one that looses money on new members' initial membership investments. Panning for members is extremely expensive, as the payoff only comes when members renew or make additional investments in addition to their membership dues.
The reason WashPIRG, ACLU, Greenpeace, etc... use these expensive aquisition strategies is not, as Dan Savage concludes, that "enough browbeaten, guilt-tripped passersby must respond to human spam to make it worth the time and effort for human spammers."
No, it's that enough of you all-talk, no-walk, so-called progressive jackasses never go beyond slapping on a half-witted bumper sticker or anonymously attacking Religious zealots online in your quest for change that these groups have to resort to guilt to get you to invest.
Real change takes MONEY because it takes TIME and EFFORT and political SKILL, which requires people to be PAID. Until enough of you well-meaning but functionally useless progressives start investing generously and on your own impulse, "human spam" will remain one of the only effective ways of aquiring you as real participants in our progressive movement.
This is an aquisition strategy, one that looses money on new members' initial membership investments. Panning for members is extremely expensive, as the payoff only comes when members renew or make additional investments in addition to their membership dues.
The reason WashPIRG, ACLU, Greenpeace, etc... use these expensive aquisition strategies is not, as Dan Savage concludes, that "enough browbeaten, guilt-tripped passersby must respond to human spam to make it worth the time and effort for human spammers."
No, it's that enough of you all-talk, no-walk, so-called progressive jackasses never go beyond slapping on a half-witted bumper sticker or anonymously attacking Religious zealots online in your quest for change that these groups have to resort to guilt to get you to invest.
Real change takes MONEY because it takes TIME and EFFORT and political SKILL, which requires people to be PAID. Until enough of you well-meaning but functionally useless progressives start investing generously and on your own impulse, "human spam" will remain one of the only effective ways of aquiring you as real participants in our progressive movement.
8
I keep waiting for Dan to post Marlee Ginter's apology... she's no longer blowing goats, so she apologized, yes?
9
You know what happens after you give money to the ACLU? They sell your name and address to everyone that's willing to buy it, and then they send you dozens of letters a year begging for more money. I know many people that quit being members of the ACLU because of these policies, even though they would love to support their work with a small donation every year.
10
I almost took a job with these folks before I realized what it was... Most of them are from "Grassroots Campaings Inc", which takes contracts for canvassing work. I read up on GCI a bit and canceled my interview.
Most of what I read was from the 04/06 elections, but it sounds like they put their workers through hell and it is basically a progressive cause pyramid scheme. Reportedly the average canvasser lasts two weeks, which is why you constantly see the signs and craigslist ads.
I almost signed up because of the "help the ACLU!" thing. If you really want to help the ACLU (I'm a member and have done volunteer work for them) join and give directly.
Most of what I read was from the 04/06 elections, but it sounds like they put their workers through hell and it is basically a progressive cause pyramid scheme. Reportedly the average canvasser lasts two weeks, which is why you constantly see the signs and craigslist ads.
I almost signed up because of the "help the ACLU!" thing. If you really want to help the ACLU (I'm a member and have done volunteer work for them) join and give directly.
11
I am annoyed by the Mall Human Spam (especially the cell phone booth guys) and those who come a knocking at the family door during dinner hours.
12
@ 10) I said this an another thread, but it's worth repeating:
Giving money directly to a nonprofit does not mean all of the money goes to the organization's work, exactly. All organizations have a large staff [contracted or formally part of the organization] dedicated to fundraising--usually one of the largest in any successful nonprofit--called development. So whether you give online, in the mail, by phone, or to a canvasser on the street, some of your money is going to the staff that raises and administers the money. ... Without raising money on the streets, these organizations would raise less of it. You can't expect an organization to sit back idly and wait for people to send them cash. Those organizations die.
Giving money directly to a nonprofit does not mean all of the money goes to the organization's work, exactly. All organizations have a large staff [contracted or formally part of the organization] dedicated to fundraising--usually one of the largest in any successful nonprofit--called development. So whether you give online, in the mail, by phone, or to a canvasser on the street, some of your money is going to the staff that raises and administers the money. ... Without raising money on the streets, these organizations would raise less of it. You can't expect an organization to sit back idly and wait for people to send them cash. Those organizations die.
13
Yes, I am aware that some of your money goes back into fundraising. But if you give to a contractor (middleman) on the street, more of your money will go there than giving directly, yes?
14
@ 13) Most of the people who give on the street wouldn't have given anything directly, so most of what goes to the organization is a net benefit. In addition, a big chunk of these new members who otherwise would not have joined renew their memberships directly to the organization.
15
Dominic,
Dan won't talk... did Marlee Ginter issue an apology? If so, why won't Dan run it? If not, why did he change his posts? If KOMO didn't issue an apology or retraction, and Dan changed his posts and dropped the issue, then it seems that his whole rant was pointless. What gives?
Dan won't talk... did Marlee Ginter issue an apology? If so, why won't Dan run it? If not, why did he change his posts? If KOMO didn't issue an apology or retraction, and Dan changed his posts and dropped the issue, then it seems that his whole rant was pointless. What gives?
16
Human Spam alert : LaRouchies are accosting people outside the Safeway on 87th and Greenwood. For a moment I thought it was 1987, though I did express amazement that Lyndon was still alive. Jebus.
17
Dan acts like we are in peril of door to door canvassers. Only people that live in houses have that problem. Sucker.
18
If you don't like canvassers, don't talk to them. They have a 1st Amendment right to do their job, and you have a 1st amendment right to ignore them.
If you have questions about their finances, ask them. Any canvasser worth their salt will be able to show you a breakdown of where their revenue goes. Ask for their business license if you're feeling especially Dan-Savage-level paranoid. But they have a right to do their job. It's a very effective way of locating new members for many nonprofits.
Also - most nonprofits I know will mark in their records if you don't want your name sold or rented.
If you have questions about their finances, ask them. Any canvasser worth their salt will be able to show you a breakdown of where their revenue goes. Ask for their business license if you're feeling especially Dan-Savage-level paranoid. But they have a right to do their job. It's a very effective way of locating new members for many nonprofits.
Also - most nonprofits I know will mark in their records if you don't want your name sold or rented.
19
"Secular liberals don't have a church that calls on me and my ilk to give money to stuff we care about."
Oh, speak for yourself. I belong to the Council for Secular Humanism. Not quite a church (eupraxophy, anyone?), but that's who I funnel my tithing through.
Oh, speak for yourself. I belong to the Council for Secular Humanism. Not quite a church (eupraxophy, anyone?), but that's who I funnel my tithing through.
20
It's kind of unfortunate, really. Canvassers are out there, raising money (most of the time) for really good causes. I've known my fair share of canvassers, and let me tell you, the bottom line is not the cause. The whole system is based on quota, and that's how they get paid. So if the underlying drive behind gay rights, saving darfur, or ending the war in iraq is a paycheck, I think there is a conflict of interest. I think a lot of people REALLY hate canvassers on capitol hill. Most people know walking down Broadway is really more of a game to count how many times complete strangers will ask you a question. Excuse me sir do you smoke? Excuse me sir do you have thirteen cents? Excuse me sir can you spare three minutes of your time to save the world? Canvassing is like a weird gray area of good and bad.
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