Monday, November 24, 2008
City Human Spam
Posted by Dan Savage on Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 9:32 AM
So... a pair of street solicitors were working the entrance to the Ballard Market yesterday.
Which is fine, I suppose, and they have every right to do it, and it's all for some good cause or other. But I don't have much patience for spam in its human form, as I said for the record a couple of years ago. As with the email variety: if people didn't respond to human spam, it wouldn't be effective, and it would stop. But just as enough idiots respond to e-spam to make it worth the time and effort for spammers, enough browbeaten, guilt-tripped passersby must respond to human spam to make it worth the time and effort for human spammers.
Anyway, folks were being spammed as they entered the market, and most were streaming by. And then... the human spam started approaching people who couldn't walk on by, people who couldn't brush past 'em. You know, there really ought to be a law against human spam approaching actual humans standing in a line to buy hot dogs from a cart.
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1
That's fascinating Dan.
Where's the Marlee Ginter update? It looks like the old stories referring to goats have been changed to say she's a damn fine journalist. Did she apologize?
Where's the Marlee Ginter update? It looks like the old stories referring to goats have been changed to say she's a damn fine journalist. Did she apologize?
9
dan, all you have to do is say "not interested, sorry" and problem solved. was that so hard? i have a much easier time with that than the school trying to get me to pimp my kid around the neighborhood for school "sponsorships" for some kind of fundraiser walk, $ per mile, etc...just makes my skin crawl.
11
But my personal favorite Dan Savage post was the one making fun of the obese woman who accidentally smothered her child to death. How fucking funny was that?
12
This bothers me. I don't know how many times I've been hassled by not just one, but several 'human spammers'... all working for the same cause, all on the same day. I used to stop and kind of listen, and then tell them I had to go sell some shit for crack. But as I made my way down Broadway(these kids are also all up and down Pine), I would get stopped by more of them sometimes 4 or 5, telling me to listen the their BS, too.
I started doing the 'avoid eye contact at all costs' thing, but I guess that flagged me as more valuable target. Now I just keep walking, but I still feel bad to tell them to back the fuck up.
I started doing the 'avoid eye contact at all costs' thing, but I guess that flagged me as more valuable target. Now I just keep walking, but I still feel bad to tell them to back the fuck up.
13
I'm with you on this one Dan. In my neighborhood, everyday, on one particular block, on both sides of the block, are uniformed pieces of human spam. Sure they're for "worthy" causes (it cycles through Greenpeace, Save the Children, ACLU, ...) but that doesn't mitigate the need for them to be disappeared.
14
Furthermore, the only way to get those kids out there hustling with any amount of effort is to pay them on commission. They make decent hourly wages - I was a hard working fundraiser in that very league and made $15 an hour in 2000 as a teenager. I probably brought in about twice that in cash. I would be surprised if more than half of anything given to the street solicitors actually makes it to 'save the children' and then there are further costs of administration etc.
It's bullshit. That fundraising system is an awful, awful, awful way to give. And the economics of giving it cause it to perpetuate. Please never donate to those people.
It's bullshit. That fundraising system is an awful, awful, awful way to give. And the economics of giving it cause it to perpetuate. Please never donate to those people.
15
Here's how to have fun with them: no matter what their cause is, immediately ask their position on white slavery, then ask what they're gonna do about the Jews. Trust me.
16
I know Erly, life can be so annoying. For instance I just hate looking at veterans who have been disfigured in war. They've been wounded; they can no longer go off and fight for freedom. We don't have to say we support them anymore. Can't they just go away someplace and let us get on with our lives complaining about awful people blocking the sidewalks asking us to stop for a moment and perhaps think about something other than ourselves?
17
Oh Jason, you are so fucking hip! So snarky! So witty! Give Jason a column Dan. But you won't will you? Because then you won't be the snarkyist cocksucker at Slog.
20
When ever they accost me, I just smile and tell them I'm anti-environment, anti-civil rights, anti-child, anti-whatever-it-is-they're shilling for.
21
Hey Ron, we have this awesome new thing now. It's called "consolidating all of your replies into a single post." You should check it out.
22
Trever @6
"The right to shop" is a red herring. This problem applies to being accosted in public no matter what you're doing. What if the example was changed from standing in line for hot dogs to standing at a bus stop?
It's tough to strike a balance on this issue. And it's DEFINITELY not as simple as "free speech vs. the right to shop".
"The right to shop" is a red herring. This problem applies to being accosted in public no matter what you're doing. What if the example was changed from standing in line for hot dogs to standing at a bus stop?
It's tough to strike a balance on this issue. And it's DEFINITELY not as simple as "free speech vs. the right to shop".
23
i view this as social terrorism. it's one of my biggest pet peeves. i'm serious. if i was interested in your damn cause, i'd seek you out. if it only happened occasionally, i'd mind less but it's a never-ending stream of someone needing something from me. i'm just trying to go about my business. it's no different from panhandling as far as i'm concerned. and if i have my headphones on or AM on a phone call, please don't interrupt me -- it's rude!
24
I wonder if they were collecting signatures to get Dan to stop harassing Marlee Ginter. It must have worked, since Dan's posts suddenly have new titles, but with no explanation....
25
I was once human spam for WashPIRG. Lasted two whole days. I'm not good at talking to strangers, I don't like asking people for money (for anything), and WashPIRG is absolute bullshit. Don't ever give them money. You're paying for inaction and for people to stand in a street and/or go door to door.
26
DAN- I have been meaning to email The Stranger for months begging you to do a story of these people. THEY ARE ALL OVER. Broadway, Pike, Pine, in front of the downtown library, etc. I remember a few months ago spammers on Broadway would literally jump up and down like pogo sticks to get your attention. They must have been told in training certain, uh, techiques, for getting your attention.
Dan, if you are reading this, PLEASE, send someone to do an article about these people, and most importantly find out WHO's bright idea it was to send them out there. I don't like to be mean to these kids but I would LOVE to call the company HQ and explain how f-ing annoying they are. Who is the one with the organization who decided this is a legit way to raise money??? Give me their head on a platter.
Dan, if you are reading this, PLEASE, send someone to do an article about these people, and most importantly find out WHO's bright idea it was to send them out there. I don't like to be mean to these kids but I would LOVE to call the company HQ and explain how f-ing annoying they are. Who is the one with the organization who decided this is a legit way to raise money??? Give me their head on a platter.
27
this is such a seattle get-mad-at-something-and-rant-because-they-had-the-cajones-to-bother-me thing.
the street is public space. if greenpeace, peace corps, dying-kids-in-africa groups, jesus freaks, larue freaks, and ave rats looking for weed money want to get their word out, is it so disgusting that we have to pout and moan? or like another commenter said, headphones on or acting like your talking on your cellphone. are we that antisocial and angry that the only acceptable response is acting like the "spammers" dont exist?
"no thank you" always suffices.
the street is public space. if greenpeace, peace corps, dying-kids-in-africa groups, jesus freaks, larue freaks, and ave rats looking for weed money want to get their word out, is it so disgusting that we have to pout and moan? or like another commenter said, headphones on or acting like your talking on your cellphone. are we that antisocial and angry that the only acceptable response is acting like the "spammers" dont exist?
"no thank you" always suffices.
28
This is why I wear my earphones around all the time. I'm not even always playing music, but it looks like I am and I can pretend not to hear human spam shouting at me to get my attention.
30
All initiatives and fund raising efforts should by law be forced to buy ads in the Stranger where they wouldn't bother anybody.
31
A new batch of canvassers starts work on a quarterly basis in the neighborhood where I work, so I have to tell a whole new batch of bright-eyed kids no every three months or so.
BFD. Get a life, Dan. I bet the British hated those damn Colonists handing out their organizational Spam, too.
BFD. Get a life, Dan. I bet the British hated those damn Colonists handing out their organizational Spam, too.
32
It's crazy that people are asking for your Marlee Ginter update, because, DUDE, I just ran into Marlee Ginter on the sidewalk. She was standing right in front of the Christian Science Book Store on Cedar St. She appeared to be having another one of her visceral conversations with thin air. I shit you not, she was talking shit about your kids*, your man, your house, your paper, your shirts and your hands. I asked her what her problem was and she just started slavering and screaming at me. It was mostly gibberish, but I'm pretty sure it had something to do with your shaving skillz. Then she bolted.
*Does it make any of this more believable if one of her details is bogus?
*Does it make any of this more believable if one of her details is bogus?
33
This is not the Ballard Market. This is the Ballard Farmers' Market. They are not the same thing. But, you know, good journalism!
35
As I re-read Dan's last sentence, I think a follow-up post is in order.
No, Dan, there absolutely shouldn't be a fucking law banning this, period.
The irony of someone who makes their living because of the First Amendment writing a sentence as idiotic as that is simply staggering.
No, Dan, there absolutely shouldn't be a fucking law banning this, period.
The irony of someone who makes their living because of the First Amendment writing a sentence as idiotic as that is simply staggering.
36
The worst part is we can't just say "I gave everything to Obama" any more.
Sigh.
The First Amendment is about free speech, not about commercial fund raising - and had more to do with handbills and ranting on about taxes than what we do now.
Sigh.
The First Amendment is about free speech, not about commercial fund raising - and had more to do with handbills and ranting on about taxes than what we do now.
37
Seattle is full of the most retarded naive liberals on Earth. Even San Francisco liberals have more sense because Oakland is just across the bridge.
39
I've always thought these people were more irritating than telemarketers, because of the guilt-tripping and because you can't just hang up. I'm glad I now have a term to describe them. When they approach me, I immediately ask them if they're getting paid and they always say yes. I've always wanted to make a sign that said "These people are not volunteers, they're getting paid to guilt trip you."
40
don't suppose such a law would have an impact on say the several thousand spammers who marched against prop 8 would it now? How totally inconvenient that you had to deal with these folks.
42
Well gee Ron Reagan, it might be easier if I wasn't paying FT tuition out of my pocket and paying for my low-income apartment simultaneously.
Disfigured veterans? Where the fuck did you pull that out of? What does that have to do with people bombarding me on the way to get a money order for the electric bill? I did stop, and listen, and hell, I signed up for one. Then I had 5 people harrass me for the exact same shit further up the street.
And really - don't give me shit about disfigured veterans. You would be saluting me if I passed you on base and you were in uniform. Piss off.
Disfigured veterans? Where the fuck did you pull that out of? What does that have to do with people bombarding me on the way to get a money order for the electric bill? I did stop, and listen, and hell, I signed up for one. Then I had 5 people harrass me for the exact same shit further up the street.
And really - don't give me shit about disfigured veterans. You would be saluting me if I passed you on base and you were in uniform. Piss off.
43
@18: No stealing involved - I think the kids are probably actually convinced they're working for the greater good. The thing is, they're not volunteers - they're just getting paid for what they do, and because it's a shit job that few people want, it pays well. So there you have it, a *large* portion of money goes to support not the fund but the fundraiser.
Ron, you're a very boring troll, and you don't read anyone else's posts very closely.
Ron, you're a very boring troll, and you don't read anyone else's posts very closely.
44
@36
The 1st Amendment is about free speech, and that includes political speech and also includes soliciting for money. Canvassing is a protected form of free speech and there are numerous cases that have upheld this right.
There are many nonprofits in Seattle that raise money and find new members by using canvassers. I was a canvasser for a while. It's exhausting, demeaning work - lots of doors slammed in your faces, lots of vitriol from complete strangers. People sic their dogs on you. I know a few people who have had the police called on them (only to find out that, surprise, it's legal for people to do door-to-door canvassing.) I can only imagine the level of constant rejection that street canvassers receive.
Look, I don't often give money to street canvassers. I dodge them. If they're at the north door, I go in the south door. Sure. But if they're talking about something interesting, I'll stop and chat and maybe I'll give them money.
This is the most silly, whiny, bourgeois complaint I've ever heard from Dan Savage. How dare those pesky political people interfere with his God-given right to shop? Next he'll be complaining about those annoying cards that fall out of magazines when you're trying to read them. Or coffee- why is it so goshdarn hot? Why does newsprint get all over your hands when you're reading the newspaper? Why does the bus always come early on days when I'm running late? Gee, someone should pass a law.
Dan's turning into Andy Rooney before our very eyes.
The 1st Amendment is about free speech, and that includes political speech and also includes soliciting for money. Canvassing is a protected form of free speech and there are numerous cases that have upheld this right.
There are many nonprofits in Seattle that raise money and find new members by using canvassers. I was a canvasser for a while. It's exhausting, demeaning work - lots of doors slammed in your faces, lots of vitriol from complete strangers. People sic their dogs on you. I know a few people who have had the police called on them (only to find out that, surprise, it's legal for people to do door-to-door canvassing.) I can only imagine the level of constant rejection that street canvassers receive.
Look, I don't often give money to street canvassers. I dodge them. If they're at the north door, I go in the south door. Sure. But if they're talking about something interesting, I'll stop and chat and maybe I'll give them money.
This is the most silly, whiny, bourgeois complaint I've ever heard from Dan Savage. How dare those pesky political people interfere with his God-given right to shop? Next he'll be complaining about those annoying cards that fall out of magazines when you're trying to read them. Or coffee- why is it so goshdarn hot? Why does newsprint get all over your hands when you're reading the newspaper? Why does the bus always come early on days when I'm running late? Gee, someone should pass a law.
Dan's turning into Andy Rooney before our very eyes.
45
Mr X hit the nail on the head when he said,
"No, Dan, there absolutely shouldn't be a fucking law banning this, period.
The irony of someone who makes their living because of the First Amendment writing a sentence as idiotic as that is simply staggering."
Um, Dan...some people feel the same way about the Stranger editorializing about issues you don't care to really do your homework on. But I defend your right to say what you wish.
Just say no, Dan. It really isn't that hard. You don't have a right to a protected bubble. If you want that, move out of the city. What next, old man, banning clubs from Belltown?
"No, Dan, there absolutely shouldn't be a fucking law banning this, period.
The irony of someone who makes their living because of the First Amendment writing a sentence as idiotic as that is simply staggering."
Um, Dan...some people feel the same way about the Stranger editorializing about issues you don't care to really do your homework on. But I defend your right to say what you wish.
Just say no, Dan. It really isn't that hard. You don't have a right to a protected bubble. If you want that, move out of the city. What next, old man, banning clubs from Belltown?
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