Friday, November 21, 2008
Sex / Media KOMO's Marlee Ginter Might Be [a Damn Fine Journalist]...
Posted by Dan Savage on Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 4:08 PM
...and then again she might not. But, hey, anything might be happening. The Center for Sex Positive Culture might be spending your tax dollars throwing sex parties. They probably aren't but they might be and so long as "might be" is the standard KOMO and Ginter use to determine what news is fit for their 11 o'clock broadcast, we can use the same standard to determine what posts are fit for Slog. Personally? I don't think Marlee Ginter is [a damn fine journalist]. But we can't rule it out definitively. I mean, does anyone know where Marlee Ginter is right now?
But if someone out there does know where Marlee is right now, could you ask her to please read this? Because there's something I want to say to Marlee:
Welcome to Seattle.
According to your bio on KOMO's website, you arrived in Seattle in August of 2007. Before getting a job at KOMO you worked as a reporter and an anchor at television stations in Gainesville, Florida; Savannah, Georgia; Spartanburg, South Carolina; and Indianapolis, Indiana. Judging from your age and your resume, you've moved from place to place, never staying in one city for very long, before you finally wound up here in Seattle a little more than a year ago. So you're just another one of those rootless, itinerant teevee news reporters who comes and goes—and that's not your fault. That's how careers work in your business: a teevee news reporter starts out in a small market, moves on to slightly larger market, and gradually works her way up to a big market.
The downside—for you itinerant teevee news reporters, for us viewers in bigger markets—is that by the time one of you gets a job in a place like Seattle, a big liberal city, you've spent a great deal of time living and working in tiny towns, in churchy places, in markets where people don't have liberal views about sex or sexuality or much of anything else. Before KOMO offered you a job, Marlee, you spent most of your professional life in much smaller and more conservative cities—all but one of them in the South.
Now sex sells, even in smaller markets, and sweeps are sweeps. So teevee news reporters in smaller markets are expected to find and report stories about sex, stories that allow them to show steamy, suggestive video. 
But a teevee news reporter working in a small market—where all teevee news reporters learn their craft—has to be careful to pitch her sex stories so that they play to the prejudices and hypocrisies of viewers in those smaller and more politically conservative markets. Oh, they want to watch sex stories for the same reason we all do—they're titillating—but they don't want to admit that they're watching them to be titillated. So sex stories in smaller markets are presented to the viewers only after they've been carefully wrapped in condemnation and outrage: "Look at this disgusting sex club/sex shop/sex haver—isn't this sex club/sex shop/sex-haver shocking and loathsome? Isn't this an affront to our community's values? Now let's look at this shocking thing some more, shall we? My goodness, isn't it indecent!"
In a small media market, teevee news reporters frequently file distorted, unfair, sloppily reported pieces about sex stores and sex clubs and people that get caught having sex. Why waste time with, oh, accuracy and fairness and ethics when the point of the piece isn't the sex toys being sold or the guys getting it on in the rest stops or the tax-exempt status of a sex-related social club. The point is boosting the ratings with a little titillating video and then moving on to weather and the sports. And in small markets teevee news reporters can get away with this, they can shit all over sex stores and clubs and havers with impunity, they beat the fuck out of people who are doing dirty, dirty SECKS!—because in a place like Savannah, Georgia, or Indianapolis, Indiana, it's extremely unlikely that someone, anyone, is going to come to that person's or that group's defense. Because, my goodness, they were doing the SECKS! And SECKS is dirty and shocking!
Welcome to Seattle, Marlee.
Seattle isn't Georgia or South Carolina. Seattle isn't just "the mountains and the water." And it's not just Starbucks and Microsoft and the Seahawks and the rain. Seattle is also Babeland and the Lusty Lady and “Savage Love” and amateur porn festivals and sex-positive community centers and nude bicyclists and one of the nation's biggest burlesque scenes. 
When the city of Seattle passed a law crafted to put local strip clubs out of business—and throw local strippers out of work—Seattle residents voted overwhelmingly to repeal it. 
People around here fall into two categories: they're either pretty progressive about sex, a.k.a. "sex-positive," or they believe that people who aren't bothering anyone else should be left the hell alone. If someone wants to open a non-profit club that offers sex education and hosts sex parties, no one around here really cares so long as the sex club is operating legally. 
And the Center, which is operating legally, got on just fine for nine years before you got to town. If there was going to be an outcry about what goes on behind its closed doors—and about its non-profit status—there would've been one long before KOMO hired you.
You’re not in a red state anymore, Marlee. You're free to file sensationalistic stories about sex for KOMO. We certainly sensationalize sex here at the Stranger—but because we think sex is, or should be, sensational. What you can’t peddle here is sex-negative bullshit. And you can't lie about sex-related businesses or sex-related non-profits with impunity here. You can't beat up on sex clubs and sex shops the way teevee news reporters in small towns beat up on sex clubs and sex shops. And if you try that crap here, Marlee, you're going to get some blowback. Because there are too many people here who aren't embarrassed to be seen coming to the defense of sex clubs or sex shops or sex workers or sex havers. Make a note of it.
Finally, Marlee, I've heard through the media grapevine that you're upset about all this [damn-fine-journalist] stuff on Slog. So let's make a deal: KOMO has already yanked your story from its website—so why not officially retract the piece and issue an apology to the Center? On air would be great, but in writing would do. We'll probably yank our obnoxious YouTube videos, and pull down or re-title these posts, whatever you do. Because, hey, we've more than made our point. But I still think you need to do the right thing and apologize.
And again, Marlee, welcome to Seattle.
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3
If she doesn't issue a retraction pretty damned quick, "gintering" is going to become slang for bestiality. If anyone doesn't think that can happen, I suggest they research the origin of the term "santorum."
4
Good point - this story was more the fault of Dan Lewis (who has been in Seattle over 20 years - longer than Dan Savage) and whatever editors KOMO uses.
5
"the south" doesn't include Indianapolis. It's no more nor less conservative than Seattle. Knowing both cities well, I'd say they're pretty much equals, except Indy has less vocal flaming idiots.
Buy a map, do some homework.
Buy a map, do some homework.
7
"the south" doesn't include Indianapolis. It's no more nor less conservative than Seattle. Knowing both cities well, I'd say they're pretty much equals, except Indy has less vocal flaming idiots.
Buy a map, do some homework.
Buy a map, do some homework.
8
Marlee needs to just move to Utah and stay the fuck away from Seattle. There she can do stories about 43 year old men marrying their 14 year old cousins. Or gigantic cows made out of butter; that one seems to fit her journalism skills best.
10
I actually refreshed because I thought my browser didn't load Slog again.
That is, I'VE READ THIS SHIT 20 TIMES ALREADY.
That is, I'VE READ THIS SHIT 20 TIMES ALREADY.
11
p.s. Dan never said anything about Indy being in the south you morons. He mentioned her working there, but when he spoke about the south, he was speaking about Georgia and South Carolina.
13
I agree with #4. Ginter's report was obviously BS, but the producers and others at KOMO are just as responsible for it as she is. She is just the smiling Barbie that reads the script.
14
She's in your head savage. Wait till you call Terry, Marlee while having some missionary hate sex cause your dinner was cold.
15
I love the rants Dan, but your grammar is sloppier than Marlee's reporting:
"a teevee news reporter starts out in a small market, moves on to slightly large market"
"Now let's look this shocking thing some more, shall we?"
"The point is boosting the rating with some titillating video"
"You can't beat up on our sex clubs and sex shops they way teevee news reporters"
Great rant otherwise.
"a teevee news reporter starts out in a small market, moves on to slightly large market"
"Now let's look this shocking thing some more, shall we?"
"The point is boosting the rating with some titillating video"
"You can't beat up on our sex clubs and sex shops they way teevee news reporters"
Great rant otherwise.
16
@11--It seems based on #12 that perhaps you were reading the later version? I know what I read. You may apologize at any time.
Blessings.
Blessings.
18
It's really a shame you used Slog's page rank and overall google juice to tag Ms. Ginter with something as completely lame as "blows goats".
19
Two things:
1) The Stranger needs to run a front page story next week on how Marlee Ginter might be sucking off goats. 3-page minimum. Using the same KOMO journalistic standards (i.e., interview past friends and associates, edit it properly, etc).
2) The Stranger needs to formally invite Marlee to be a judge for next year's HUMP contest. Give her VIP treatment. This is an educational service, extended to her.
P.S. Additionally - she obviously need to get laid. Someone out there take care of that, please.
1) The Stranger needs to run a front page story next week on how Marlee Ginter might be sucking off goats. 3-page minimum. Using the same KOMO journalistic standards (i.e., interview past friends and associates, edit it properly, etc).
2) The Stranger needs to formally invite Marlee to be a judge for next year's HUMP contest. Give her VIP treatment. This is an educational service, extended to her.
P.S. Additionally - she obviously need to get laid. Someone out there take care of that, please.
20
Chicago transplants aren't allowed to welcome people to Seattle.
Also, please stop all the posting on this non-controversy.
Also, please stop all the posting on this non-controversy.
21
local news is targeted to suburbanites. i guaruntee you the people out in bothel ate that shit up.
22
Too bad for Marlee and KOMO.
"To ginter" and "To KOMO" have already made it into the lexicon of some sex-positive circles.
Definitions?
KOMO: v. 1. Using misrepresentation, distortion, and/or fabrication as an instrument to produce scandal. 2. To present a façade of self-righteous indignation.
Example: Mayor Nickels has been KOMOing Seattle's nightlife for years.
Ginter: v. 1. Any act of bestiality involving humans and goats, most often used in reference to oral sex acts involving humans and goats.
Example: Marlee has not replied to my e-mail yet. She might be busy gintering her way through a herd of goats.
(Many thanks to he who documented the usage and started writing up the definitions. He knows who he is. :D )
"To ginter" and "To KOMO" have already made it into the lexicon of some sex-positive circles.
Definitions?
KOMO: v. 1. Using misrepresentation, distortion, and/or fabrication as an instrument to produce scandal. 2. To present a façade of self-righteous indignation.
Example: Mayor Nickels has been KOMOing Seattle's nightlife for years.
Ginter: v. 1. Any act of bestiality involving humans and goats, most often used in reference to oral sex acts involving humans and goats.
Example: Marlee has not replied to my e-mail yet. She might be busy gintering her way through a herd of goats.
(Many thanks to he who documented the usage and started writing up the definitions. He knows who he is. :D )
23
you've obnviously never worked in tv, nor in those cities. there has to be something real to write about instead of this b.s over and over. also, watched the piece again, the old interview wasn't cut up, just some fancy graphics in the middle, so when you make your youtube videos try to be equal and not worse.
26
The Stranger needs to produce a porn involving a Marlee look-a-like.
It was okay for Sarah Palin, it was okay for Joe the plumber, why is it not okay here?
This pussy "understaaaaaaanding/let's make a deeeeeeal" crap is gross.
I hate her so much. Her actions in this event have been entirely unprofessional, dirty and gross. And here you are, basically apologizing for everything and licking her crusty butthole with this retarded "deal."
What the FUCK? She took Brian Alexander's own words and slapped him in the face with them. She responds to his reactions by basically telling him to go fuck himself. She offers no apology then, and you aren't even requiring her to apologize for it now.
If she's going to play the tabula rasa card here, she needs to apologize for EVERYTHING, and she needs to back up that apology with some heavy details.
Like, say,
"I used Brian Alexander's interview for my report by cutting up his own words and positioning him towards my side."
"I was objective by making everyone feel comfortable with me. I made it seem like I just wanted to be 'in the know' and report on what I found, not report about how awful these people and this place are."
"I responded to Brian Alexander's problem with my editing by telling him I did nothing wrong. I still think I did nothing wrong, because these people are sick, but if I make this apology, everything will be okay with The Stranger."
"This is what apologizing is all about. I've done something wrong, I knew I was doing something wrong, I don't think it's necessarily wrong because I truly believe what I was covering is wrong, but I'm going to say I was wrong because APOLOGIZING FIXES EEEEEEVERYTHING!!!"
"If I do anything else nasty or news worthy, please remember that I have a alcohol/rehab card to play."
AKSLKJFHSADAKJGFHB
More...
It was okay for Sarah Palin, it was okay for Joe the plumber, why is it not okay here?
This pussy "understaaaaaaanding/let's make a deeeeeeal" crap is gross.
I hate her so much. Her actions in this event have been entirely unprofessional, dirty and gross. And here you are, basically apologizing for everything and licking her crusty butthole with this retarded "deal."
What the FUCK? She took Brian Alexander's own words and slapped him in the face with them. She responds to his reactions by basically telling him to go fuck himself. She offers no apology then, and you aren't even requiring her to apologize for it now.
If she's going to play the tabula rasa card here, she needs to apologize for EVERYTHING, and she needs to back up that apology with some heavy details.
Like, say,
"I used Brian Alexander's interview for my report by cutting up his own words and positioning him towards my side."
"I was objective by making everyone feel comfortable with me. I made it seem like I just wanted to be 'in the know' and report on what I found, not report about how awful these people and this place are."
"I responded to Brian Alexander's problem with my editing by telling him I did nothing wrong. I still think I did nothing wrong, because these people are sick, but if I make this apology, everything will be okay with The Stranger."
"This is what apologizing is all about. I've done something wrong, I knew I was doing something wrong, I don't think it's necessarily wrong because I truly believe what I was covering is wrong, but I'm going to say I was wrong because APOLOGIZING FIXES EEEEEEVERYTHING!!!"
"If I do anything else nasty or news worthy, please remember that I have a alcohol/rehab card to play."
AKSLKJFHSADAKJGFHB
27
"People around here fall into two categories: they're either pretty progressive about sex, a.k.a. "sex-positive," or they believe that people who aren't bothering anyone else should be left the hell alone."
This statement is fundamentally wrong. There are a ton of liberal politicing but morally puritanical people in Seattle. There is a very strong puritan streak running through the Seattle hoity-toity echelon, and has been ever since the Methodist Denny Party. These people are pro Teen Dance Ordinances, for regressive liquor sales policies, against sex, and against drug reform. Get off Capitol Hill. These are the ultra-liberals but morally uptight who live on Upper Queen Anne, Laruelhurst, Magnolia, Broadview, and etc. They can afford to max out donations to political campaigns and they have the ears of the mayor and city council.
Seattle politics has always been fairly left, but from its founding the schism in Seattle politics has always been the rabble versus the rich. Doc Maynard, the bar owner, versus Denny, the methodist. Salaciousness versus prohibitionist.
Ginter was aiming her story at suburban and rural viewers, but the anti-sex brigade has an audience in the city as well.
This statement is fundamentally wrong. There are a ton of liberal politicing but morally puritanical people in Seattle. There is a very strong puritan streak running through the Seattle hoity-toity echelon, and has been ever since the Methodist Denny Party. These people are pro Teen Dance Ordinances, for regressive liquor sales policies, against sex, and against drug reform. Get off Capitol Hill. These are the ultra-liberals but morally uptight who live on Upper Queen Anne, Laruelhurst, Magnolia, Broadview, and etc. They can afford to max out donations to political campaigns and they have the ears of the mayor and city council.
Seattle politics has always been fairly left, but from its founding the schism in Seattle politics has always been the rabble versus the rich. Doc Maynard, the bar owner, versus Denny, the methodist. Salaciousness versus prohibitionist.
Ginter was aiming her story at suburban and rural viewers, but the anti-sex brigade has an audience in the city as well.
29
Kudos to you, Dan, for your open and honest explanation of what this is about. I would just ammend your letter ever so slightly:
In addition to group I ("Sex is cool! Let's talk about sex!") and group II ("What you do in private is nobody else's buisness."), there actually is a group III ("Sechs! Icky!") here. To be sure, there are fewer of them than in the bible belt. They are a tiny minority in Seattle proper, but there are a fair number of them in Bothell and Renton and Kent and other suburbs in your broadcast area. Given the demographics of television news, group III might will be the majority of viewers of KOMO evening news, so the tone of your story might have made good business sense.
But you see, we are engaged in a culture war against group III, and the Stranger is culture war headquarters. We are trying to erridicate them, and anyone who shows sympathy with their views counts as a collaborator against whom all attacks are justified. As you can see, we do not shirk from character defamation and extortion. And we will not rest until every last group III member has been exterminated! Sieg... Ahm.
Welcome to Seattle, Marlee.
In addition to group I ("Sex is cool! Let's talk about sex!") and group II ("What you do in private is nobody else's buisness."), there actually is a group III ("Sechs! Icky!") here. To be sure, there are fewer of them than in the bible belt. They are a tiny minority in Seattle proper, but there are a fair number of them in Bothell and Renton and Kent and other suburbs in your broadcast area. Given the demographics of television news, group III might will be the majority of viewers of KOMO evening news, so the tone of your story might have made good business sense.
But you see, we are engaged in a culture war against group III, and the Stranger is culture war headquarters. We are trying to erridicate them, and anyone who shows sympathy with their views counts as a collaborator against whom all attacks are justified. As you can see, we do not shirk from character defamation and extortion. And we will not rest until every last group III member has been exterminated! Sieg... Ahm.
Welcome to Seattle, Marlee.
31
Welcome to Seattle, Marlee.
Let me tell you how it works here. If you DARE to do a news story at the behest of your editors that Dan Savage doesn't like, he will torment you on his blog for days and days and days.
You see, Marlee, a lot of "journalists" here in Seattle are really just petty attention whores that have nothing better to do than rag on other reporters to prove their own self-worth as writers, or to make themselves seem hip and snarky to the kool kidz.
Now, truth be told, your story was bullshit, and demonstrated the journalism skills of a 10th-grade school newspaper reporter. You twisted facts, made some dubious claims, misrepresented people, and showed some steamy soft-porn to get your story on tv. How much of that was you and how much was your editors is only for you to know.
Regardless, Dan could have taken the high road, pointed out the errors of your ways, and challenged you to uphold good journalistic practices.
Instead, he used his blog to say all kinds of mean, nasty, disgusting, insulting shit about you in the never-ending search for attention and comments to his posts. Which really makes him no better than you. But, there you have it.
So, welcome to Seattle, Marlee. Don't ever piss off Dan Savage EVER, EVER AGAIN.
Let me tell you how it works here. If you DARE to do a news story at the behest of your editors that Dan Savage doesn't like, he will torment you on his blog for days and days and days.
You see, Marlee, a lot of "journalists" here in Seattle are really just petty attention whores that have nothing better to do than rag on other reporters to prove their own self-worth as writers, or to make themselves seem hip and snarky to the kool kidz.
Now, truth be told, your story was bullshit, and demonstrated the journalism skills of a 10th-grade school newspaper reporter. You twisted facts, made some dubious claims, misrepresented people, and showed some steamy soft-porn to get your story on tv. How much of that was you and how much was your editors is only for you to know.
Regardless, Dan could have taken the high road, pointed out the errors of your ways, and challenged you to uphold good journalistic practices.
Instead, he used his blog to say all kinds of mean, nasty, disgusting, insulting shit about you in the never-ending search for attention and comments to his posts. Which really makes him no better than you. But, there you have it.
So, welcome to Seattle, Marlee. Don't ever piss off Dan Savage EVER, EVER AGAIN.
33
What's sad is that she and KOMO could just as easily have done the exact same piece, with the same videos and pictures, but made it sex positive and said something like, "look at what a progressive place this is, the rest of the country seems backwards by comparison!"
Of course, then the religious fundies would have shit on her.
Of course, then the religious fundies would have shit on her.
34
OMG, this is the least interesting controversy of ALL time. Does the Stranger fund the Sex Center or something??? Who the fuck cares??
Is someone going to counter with "First they come for the sex center and then the gays, and then you!"
This is so boring I have to actively campaign against you posting anymore about it rather than just ignore it. Give it a rest or I'm going to write fanmail to Marlee just to spite you.
Is someone going to counter with "First they come for the sex center and then the gays, and then you!"
This is so boring I have to actively campaign against you posting anymore about it rather than just ignore it. Give it a rest or I'm going to write fanmail to Marlee just to spite you.
35
Local news generally means gawking at some car chase on a major freeway, hearing about someone who got shot in a bad neighborhood or staring at flames from the fire du jour. So who REALLY watches local TV news other than those who need to get a life? The answer may surprise you...
37
Jesus people -- read Dan's post one more time, it's pretty clear why he's doing this.
What makes this story particularly infuriating for Dan is that this is in Seattle, and if he feels like he has the platform to take her down, then he should try. Symbolically, I think this is a more important controversy than people think. I think it's crystal clear that this Marlee fiasco is simply the straw that broke the camel's (goat's) back. It comes after a long run of persecutory local news coverage from all over the country, normally targeting non-mainstream members of the community (stories that Dan has also covered), and it shouldn't be happening here.
Marlee Ginter should be publicly embarrassed for that atrocious story, and should lose her job. And yes, 'gintering' should become a colloquialism for some bestiality act.
What makes this story particularly infuriating for Dan is that this is in Seattle, and if he feels like he has the platform to take her down, then he should try. Symbolically, I think this is a more important controversy than people think. I think it's crystal clear that this Marlee fiasco is simply the straw that broke the camel's (goat's) back. It comes after a long run of persecutory local news coverage from all over the country, normally targeting non-mainstream members of the community (stories that Dan has also covered), and it shouldn't be happening here.
Marlee Ginter should be publicly embarrassed for that atrocious story, and should lose her job. And yes, 'gintering' should become a colloquialism for some bestiality act.
39
Keep up the pressure! KOMO stepped outside the realm of journalism into salacious, cynical bullying with this "story." Marlee Ginter seems smart enough to know right from wrong. Dan Lewis certainly has enough experience to know better. But they created and aired a story packed with lies and prurient soft-core sanitized under a veil of moral judgment. What they did is wrong and they obviously want to hide the story now. Don't let them.
40
I think it's funny as fuck. KOMO rolls snake eyes and their bet pays off a crisp slapping around.
41
I'm a liberal southerner, and I feel slighted - albeit inadvertently...which makes me miss the bigger point of this blog entry.
42
When I Googled "Marlee Ginter" I kind of felt sorry for her. I would say she is ruined, but since none of this will be on TV, she'll be OK. (I don't feel sorry for her, BTW).
44
This just get's better and better.
I'm glad you offered an olive branch to her, though. Though her segment was a truly aweful bit of sex-negativs BS, she's probably suffered enough for it.
I'm glad you offered an olive branch to her, though. Though her segment was a truly aweful bit of sex-negativs BS, she's probably suffered enough for it.
45
@7:
Hahahahahahahaha....
Hahhahahahahahahaha....
I'm from Indiana too. Have you EVER read the Indianapolis Star? Have you EVER watched rtv-6 (known as WRTV if you want to be picky, but nobody local calls it that...)?
I'll grant that, geographically, Indianapolis is north of the Mason-Dixon line, but frankly, any part of the state south of Crown Point and due east and south of South Bend is far more southern in its mentality and culture than probably any other state in the Midwest. (South by southeast Ohio is more Appalacian than Southern.)
Yes, I'm sure you'll bring up Hamilton Township and Bloomington and maybe West Lafayette and maybe even Speedway. You'll even, maybe, bring up some examples of the surprising influence the African-American community has had in the city over the years. But trust me, Indy, and much of Indiana, is a Midwestern place with a big dollop of Southern in it.
And Indy is NOT like Seattle. (Not that even Seattle, as is, is like Seattle as idealized.)
Hahahahahahahaha....
Hahhahahahahahahaha....
I'm from Indiana too. Have you EVER read the Indianapolis Star? Have you EVER watched rtv-6 (known as WRTV if you want to be picky, but nobody local calls it that...)?
I'll grant that, geographically, Indianapolis is north of the Mason-Dixon line, but frankly, any part of the state south of Crown Point and due east and south of South Bend is far more southern in its mentality and culture than probably any other state in the Midwest. (South by southeast Ohio is more Appalacian than Southern.)
Yes, I'm sure you'll bring up Hamilton Township and Bloomington and maybe West Lafayette and maybe even Speedway. You'll even, maybe, bring up some examples of the surprising influence the African-American community has had in the city over the years. But trust me, Indy, and much of Indiana, is a Midwestern place with a big dollop of Southern in it.
And Indy is NOT like Seattle. (Not that even Seattle, as is, is like Seattle as idealized.)
46
Leave Marlee Ginter ALONE boo-hoo. All she wants to do is suck off goats (maybe). She lost her purse in a sex club, her camera gal got hit on at the sex club, and all you people want is MORE MORE MORE (goat sucking). LEAVE MARLEE GINTER ALONE (boo-hoo boo-hoo).
48
What Ginter did is horrendous journalism and a disservice to the community. It also serves to take away even more credibility from the local media, which is something that shouldn't happen. It's broadcast news shit like this that ruins it for the rest of the hard-working journalists who are losing jobs left and right while the Ginters of the world can continue to (maybe) blow goats and falsely accuse people of things. They should be issuing a complete and public retraction on television and their Web site. Immediately.
51
I would hope that Ginter has a long, drunk, dark night of the soul and comes back next year to do a Sook-Yin Lee / "Shortbus"-type vid for HUMP!
52
I see the lawyers have gotten to you Dan. Already covering your ass. Setting the stage so people will think you decided to take this stuff down, instead of a judge.
What you did was malicious. That is the standard. If she made a mistake you could simply point it out. But no, you set out to do her harm. You caused harm for her and her family. You encouraged others to harm her and her family. When it became apparent that you were causing her harm you could have backed off, but you decided to push harder and harm her further. That is malice. That is the legal standard by which you are being judged. Satire and criticism are only acceptable under the law if they are free of malice. Get ready to pay her a lot of money.
What you did was malicious. That is the standard. If she made a mistake you could simply point it out. But no, you set out to do her harm. You caused harm for her and her family. You encouraged others to harm her and her family. When it became apparent that you were causing her harm you could have backed off, but you decided to push harder and harm her further. That is malice. That is the legal standard by which you are being judged. Satire and criticism are only acceptable under the law if they are free of malice. Get ready to pay her a lot of money.
55
Annnnd also, since you're shit was so stupid, I'm going to automatically assume you work at KOMO. Please go back to trolling at your shitty broadcast news station. kthxbai.
56
On a side note, Gary Indiana looks exactly like the blasted hellscape, complete with flame-belching smokestacks, at the beginning of Blade Runner.
59
@57--Well, it depends on what part of Indiana the guy was from. Most anything south of Interstate 70 is Inditucky. It's where census takers get mauled by packs of dogs and Santa Claus comes down the chimbley. But north of I-70 is a whole different thing outside of the pockets of people who migrated north to work at the (now dying) auto factories.
60
@ "common"- take away the perameters of the story, and you have a person who misquoted (by sound byte), misled (having ALL the right information, but not giving it), and is recieving a dressing down for that action. As a straight male who has sex, I'm offended. As an AMERICAN who believes in the sanctity of the free press, I'm pissed!!...A.
61
I am glad you are standing up to this Dan. I may be biased as a member of the Center, although I have never had sex in the place, but here is my persepctive.
I am fed up with right wing religious people trying to legislate morality. What I do that does not cause harm to others are what I consider my civil rights. This story was aired under the guise of "Problem Solvers." Who the heck contacted KOMO and said that a members only "sex club" located in an industrial area was a "problem?" The only person I can imagine is someone with a holier than thou attitude about sex. Much the same kind of people who think that people choose their sexuality and if it isn't the same as theirs then it is appropriate to legislate against it. It brings to mind the word theocracy.
I have an alternative sexuality, on the outside I may look like a frumpy 50 years old married soccer mom, inside I am kinky and have an extended family group. I appreciate voices like Dan and Alena who can take a public stand. I hope I live long enough to not feel fear or concern about being "outed." And btw, I am also hoping I can still throw a flogger :)
I am fed up with right wing religious people trying to legislate morality. What I do that does not cause harm to others are what I consider my civil rights. This story was aired under the guise of "Problem Solvers." Who the heck contacted KOMO and said that a members only "sex club" located in an industrial area was a "problem?" The only person I can imagine is someone with a holier than thou attitude about sex. Much the same kind of people who think that people choose their sexuality and if it isn't the same as theirs then it is appropriate to legislate against it. It brings to mind the word theocracy.
I have an alternative sexuality, on the outside I may look like a frumpy 50 years old married soccer mom, inside I am kinky and have an extended family group. I appreciate voices like Dan and Alena who can take a public stand. I hope I live long enough to not feel fear or concern about being "outed." And btw, I am also hoping I can still throw a flogger :)
62
The story was not saying close the club. The story was simply asking should a sex club be a non profit. I think there are probably some legitimate benefits to the club such as the books and counseling. But let's not mince words here New Horizons is a sex club and they don't dare to ask for any public funding. I don't choose to go to either club, I don't want to help fund either club so therefore I shouldn't have to. At least New Horizon's doesn't ask me to. This club is ostensibly a sex therapy clinic. If this is a legitimate community clinic why did you have to change the name from the "Wet Spot" .
attack the journalism if you want, but leave the girl alone. I wonder how Dan Savage would feel if KOMO aired a story that said Dan Savage "might be a Pedophile". Knock it off, grow up and quit your ranting.
Mr Savage you are simply jealous that mainstream media is not interested in your extreme views and lack of interesting content. Shock media is passe, your numbers are dropping fast soon you will just be a lonely angry never has been.
Welcome to Seattle
attack the journalism if you want, but leave the girl alone. I wonder how Dan Savage would feel if KOMO aired a story that said Dan Savage "might be a Pedophile". Knock it off, grow up and quit your ranting.
Mr Savage you are simply jealous that mainstream media is not interested in your extreme views and lack of interesting content. Shock media is passe, your numbers are dropping fast soon you will just be a lonely angry never has been.
Welcome to Seattle
63
Could we also just address the fact that Marlee Ginter has ALWAYS been a terrible and crass excuse for a journalist? I wasn't the least bit surprised by her antics.
It's unfortunate, because I've seen KOMO from the inside and the way they operate is pretty legitimate. Steve Pool is a nice guy. Mike Dardis is awesome, and hot, and a totally sweet person.
But as soon as a Ginter report comes on, the whole tone of the broadcast just dies. Example: one piece she did on some candle light vigil type thing jumps back to her live shot with her sticking a CANDLE right in the camera, and then having the camera man take a few steps back before she goes into her report. WHAT THE EFF? I mean..LOOK. CANDLE. It is a CANDLELIGHT VIGIL, folks. The poor camera man even had to re-focus. If I were KOMO's news director (who is a nice lady) I would've fired her just for sheer abuse of format.
And why does everyone feel the need to hate on Dan all the fucking time? You aren't perfect either, and your sense of humour is not as good. He's got a syndicated column and national recognition and you don't: get over it.
It's unfortunate, because I've seen KOMO from the inside and the way they operate is pretty legitimate. Steve Pool is a nice guy. Mike Dardis is awesome, and hot, and a totally sweet person.
But as soon as a Ginter report comes on, the whole tone of the broadcast just dies. Example: one piece she did on some candle light vigil type thing jumps back to her live shot with her sticking a CANDLE right in the camera, and then having the camera man take a few steps back before she goes into her report. WHAT THE EFF? I mean..LOOK. CANDLE. It is a CANDLELIGHT VIGIL, folks. The poor camera man even had to re-focus. If I were KOMO's news director (who is a nice lady) I would've fired her just for sheer abuse of format.
And why does everyone feel the need to hate on Dan all the fucking time? You aren't perfect either, and your sense of humour is not as good. He's got a syndicated column and national recognition and you don't: get over it.
64
It's always nice to see Dan show his true colors. Every once in a while I'll start thinking he might be a decent guy, but then he helps me out by reminding me that he's just a whiny self-centered asshole, and we are unlucky enough to live in the same city as he does. Stop acting like a third grader.
65
"...they believe that people who aren't bothering anyone else should be left the hell alone." Unless you're a church who meets at Neumos and then the gloves are coming off!
66
@ 56 - so freakin' true! I had to make a pit stop there once, on a roadtrip to Chicago, & it was like hell, if hell was more sad than angry. It's the first time I have seen an actual tent revival on a city's main street, & all the small items in a local grocery store were locked up behind a metal grid. *shudder* I got in, bought aspirin, & fled.
Look, the reporter misrepresented someone badly AND messed with a local institution it seems that nobody has a real problem with AND twanged our country's favorite phobia..again..OMG THE SECKS. There may have been a producer above her who wrote/approved the story, but she's the public figure reading it..therefore, she takes the heat.
..& you know what to do if you can't take the heat.
Look, the reporter misrepresented someone badly AND messed with a local institution it seems that nobody has a real problem with AND twanged our country's favorite phobia..again..OMG THE SECKS. There may have been a producer above her who wrote/approved the story, but she's the public figure reading it..therefore, she takes the heat.
..& you know what to do if you can't take the heat.
67
I heart what you are doing, keep it up. Don't let the haters stop you from saying what needs to be said. The proof is in the pudding, or should I say santorum? Look on FL and see how many people have "into Dan Savage" or "curious about watching gintering" as fetishes. You are leading the way for us all to have our voices heard over the absurd corporate "news-fomercials."
One of my fave sayings: The moral majority is neither!
One of my fave sayings: The moral majority is neither!
68
the thing is that even for native seattleite komo peeps as well as seattle long timers, it has to be an embarrassment. and a challenge. even to them, our fellow seattleites stuck at fucking komo. theres a line here that seattleites define themselves on. all the sudden seattle has to deal with newby bullshit? even newby ceo bullshit? no, i don't think so.
69
This isn't about criticizing a reporter. That standard has been far exceeded. This is about maliciously causing harm to someone. That is the standard. Dan caused her harm. He did it on purpose. When it was brought to his attention that he was causing her harm he maliciously continued to cause her harm.
This was about attacking her. This was about causing harm to her. This was about causing harm to her family. No mater how funny you may think it is, it is still a malicious act.
Yes she is a public figure. She is open to criticism. She is open to be the subject of satire. This was not criticism or satire. This was malicious harassment. He wanted to ruin her reputation. He wanted her to lose her job. He wanted her family to suffer. That is not criticism. That is not comedy. That is someone who is out to maliciously harm another person. Freedom of speech and the fact that she is a public figure will not protect you when your actions are malicious.
Dan acted with malice. That is what defines this subject. She did not attack him. She did not provoke him. He is the one on the crusade to harm her.
Let me say it again for those who don't understand. Dan acted with malice.
I wish I was her lawyer. I would like a chunk of that settlement.
This was about attacking her. This was about causing harm to her. This was about causing harm to her family. No mater how funny you may think it is, it is still a malicious act.
Yes she is a public figure. She is open to criticism. She is open to be the subject of satire. This was not criticism or satire. This was malicious harassment. He wanted to ruin her reputation. He wanted her to lose her job. He wanted her family to suffer. That is not criticism. That is not comedy. That is someone who is out to maliciously harm another person. Freedom of speech and the fact that she is a public figure will not protect you when your actions are malicious.
Dan acted with malice. That is what defines this subject. She did not attack him. She did not provoke him. He is the one on the crusade to harm her.
Let me say it again for those who don't understand. Dan acted with malice.
I wish I was her lawyer. I would like a chunk of that settlement.
70
@ 69, are you, in fact, a lawyer? Please answer truthfully.
@ everyone else talking about Indiana - I once stopped at a truck stop on I - 64 (which is way south Indiana) that had a giant, hideous Santa Claus statue with a bullet hole in the beard, and which sold these little novelty cactus plants. The cacti were the exact shape and length of a typical pinky finger, and the little pot was of an old duffer holding his pants open.
On the way out, we saw an old 70s car pull out. They had covered the brakelights with stencils which read EAT SHIT.
@ everyone else talking about Indiana - I once stopped at a truck stop on I - 64 (which is way south Indiana) that had a giant, hideous Santa Claus statue with a bullet hole in the beard, and which sold these little novelty cactus plants. The cacti were the exact shape and length of a typical pinky finger, and the little pot was of an old duffer holding his pants open.
On the way out, we saw an old 70s car pull out. They had covered the brakelights with stencils which read EAT SHIT.
73
Let me get this straight. Some hack, out-of-town journalist is bitching about how a hack, out-of-town TV reporter has moved to Seattle?
74
Um, if you don't like what Dan has to say, why are you here?
If you don't want to fund a sex club, or a sex-positive community center, don't become a member. No one is stealing your money to fund the CSPC.
I, for one, think a poor reporter should be pointed out so that her/his credibility can be considered by the viewer before fully accepting the "news". Not just Ginter here, but any poor reporter. And given the type of reporting she did, and the specific community she attacked, I think Dan's method of dealing with Ginter is both hilarious and effective. And yet, his peace offering is appropriate and I think Ms. Ginter would be wise to accept it.
As a side note, as a member of the CSPC (and while I attend events regularly I have never had sex there, btw) I'm proud of my community for standing up and refusing to be ashamed of who we are and what we do.
Ms. Ginter chose the wrong group to pick on.
<3 you, Dan!
If you don't want to fund a sex club, or a sex-positive community center, don't become a member. No one is stealing your money to fund the CSPC.
I, for one, think a poor reporter should be pointed out so that her/his credibility can be considered by the viewer before fully accepting the "news". Not just Ginter here, but any poor reporter. And given the type of reporting she did, and the specific community she attacked, I think Dan's method of dealing with Ginter is both hilarious and effective. And yet, his peace offering is appropriate and I think Ms. Ginter would be wise to accept it.
As a side note, as a member of the CSPC (and while I attend events regularly I have never had sex there, btw) I'm proud of my community for standing up and refusing to be ashamed of who we are and what we do.
Ms. Ginter chose the wrong group to pick on.
<3 you, Dan!
75
@65 said:
"...they believe that people who aren't bothering anyone else should be left the hell alone." Unless you're a church who meets at Neumos and then the gloves are coming off!
Any church, such as Antioch currently holding services Sundays at Neumos on Capital Hill, which arbitrarily condemns homosexuality, is persecuting gays and lesbians. There isn't two ways about it unfortunately.
"...they believe that people who aren't bothering anyone else should be left the hell alone." Unless you're a church who meets at Neumos and then the gloves are coming off!
Any church, such as Antioch currently holding services Sundays at Neumos on Capital Hill, which arbitrarily condemns homosexuality, is persecuting gays and lesbians. There isn't two ways about it unfortunately.
76
@69
Ginter claims to be a journalist. She broke all the rules of journalism and deserves to be called out by her contemporaries.
True, the Stranger staff stretches the rules of journalism on a regular basis, but that doesn't mean the Stranger can't point to corrupt b.s. sensationalism that stains the ideals of the craft of journalism.
Ginter is getting what she deserves, and KOMO should pay attention to what they are hearing from us.
Also @69, you need to go back and re-learn what satire is all about. Malice is the motive, malice is the art. If you don't get that, don't ever write again... I'm serious about that.
To beat the dead horse/goat on the Indiana subject, do some reading about Indiana's difficutlies with the Civil War, as well as the popuarity of the KKK in that state, lynching statistics, etc.
(One note: My mother's family is from South Bend and they are wonderful, non-racist, hard-working, beautiful people. So I know what the good parts of Indiana are all about.)
Ginter claims to be a journalist. She broke all the rules of journalism and deserves to be called out by her contemporaries.
True, the Stranger staff stretches the rules of journalism on a regular basis, but that doesn't mean the Stranger can't point to corrupt b.s. sensationalism that stains the ideals of the craft of journalism.
Ginter is getting what she deserves, and KOMO should pay attention to what they are hearing from us.
Also @69, you need to go back and re-learn what satire is all about. Malice is the motive, malice is the art. If you don't get that, don't ever write again... I'm serious about that.
To beat the dead horse/goat on the Indiana subject, do some reading about Indiana's difficutlies with the Civil War, as well as the popuarity of the KKK in that state, lynching statistics, etc.
(One note: My mother's family is from South Bend and they are wonderful, non-racist, hard-working, beautiful people. So I know what the good parts of Indiana are all about.)
77
All you people complaining about Dan being an out-of-towner: You realize that that's a provincial, small-town attitude, don't you? The sort of thing you better give up if you really want Seattle to join the big leagues, right? How long does he have to live there before he can be accepted as a legit resident?
Putzes.
Putzes.
78
Well, I want to get my two cents worth in. Adult consentual sex should be protected from jealous, blue nosed, self righteous blowhards. KOMO should stop sniffing around other people's secks organs.
81
I think it's very telling that Mrs. Ginter has not responded to any of this. Dan is like a 3 year old throwing a tantrum. He just keeps crying and crying and crying, but can't get his way. Next he'll start stomping his feet and then holding his breath. It must be killing him that he's not getting the attention that he so desperately craves.
Mrs. Ginter is obviously a professional. I think it's admirable that she does not cower to the whims of this bully, no matter how vile his personal attacks are.
Dan's claim that he is a journalist on par with Mrs. Ginter is laughable. That's like claiming Nader is on Par with Obama because they both ran for president. Or claiming the the Aquasox could compete with the Mariners because they both play baseball. Dan is out of his league. He is simply a cyberbully who writes crass insults to try and draw a very tiny audience onto a fringe website.
Anyone can call themselves anything they want. Mrs. Ginter is proving herself to be a professional journalist. Dan has also exposed himself for who he truly is. Don't look now, but I think he's lying on the floor stomping his feet.
Mrs. Ginter is obviously a professional. I think it's admirable that she does not cower to the whims of this bully, no matter how vile his personal attacks are.
Dan's claim that he is a journalist on par with Mrs. Ginter is laughable. That's like claiming Nader is on Par with Obama because they both ran for president. Or claiming the the Aquasox could compete with the Mariners because they both play baseball. Dan is out of his league. He is simply a cyberbully who writes crass insults to try and draw a very tiny audience onto a fringe website.
Anyone can call themselves anything they want. Mrs. Ginter is proving herself to be a professional journalist. Dan has also exposed himself for who he truly is. Don't look now, but I think he's lying on the floor stomping his feet.
82
dan's babysitter is marlee's goat supplier!
ginter's hardly a professional, unless you consider being a talentless hack a profession.
ginter's hardly a professional, unless you consider being a talentless hack a profession.
83
Didn't Slog post, like a year or more ago, some TV news story about a dildo shop in some town and y'all wanted everyone to write because the reporter was ludicrous (not Ludacris). I can't find that article, but I remember the reporter looking somewhat like Ginter, and now that you've mentioned she's lived in other cities... Was it her?
84
Dan's hardly a professional, unless you consider being a talentless hack a profession.
Fixed it for you.
Dan's hardly a professional, unless you consider being a talentless hack a profession.
Fixed it for you.
85
Never mind. It was Kandiss Crone. I tend to get my black southern female sensationalist TV sex news reporters confused.
87
@81 - No response you say? I suppose that's why KOMO took the "report" down within 12 hours of publishing it to the net?
It certainly isn't their usual when all those other "problem solver" stories are still up after months of being posted on their site.
That crap they are trying to pass off as journalism would still be up if not for Dan Savage, those writing in support of CSPC, and those making donations through KOMO's "Problem Solver Donation Page," embarrassing KOMO in the process. This one backfired on KOMO and Ginter BIG Time.
Great Job DAN! You are Our Sex-Positive HERO!
It certainly isn't their usual when all those other "problem solver" stories are still up after months of being posted on their site.
That crap they are trying to pass off as journalism would still be up if not for Dan Savage, those writing in support of CSPC, and those making donations through KOMO's "Problem Solver Donation Page," embarrassing KOMO in the process. This one backfired on KOMO and Ginter BIG Time.
Great Job DAN! You are Our Sex-Positive HERO!
89
Yoo hoo, "common sense." Where are you? I asked you a question @ 70. Just to save you from scrolling back up there, I asked you if you're a lawyer? I'm going to ask another question: If yes, do you have any experience with libel litigation?
90
It is not uncommon for media companies to remove stories in preparation for legal action. Watch out Dan. I think your big mouth is about to catch up with you.
91
@77, I have no desire to see my city join the "big leagues." And I have little tolerance for Chicago carpetbaggers (or people currently living in Denver) telling me what Seattle should be.
93
Matt @77 asked a good question. How long DOES someone have to live in Seattle before they are no longer considered an out-of-towner? Ten years? Twenty years? Do they have to be born here? What if they were born here but one or both parents were born somewhere else? Do they have to be able to trace their ancestry to the pioneers who came out here in the 1850s? What if someone is born here, went to college somewhere else, and returned? Do they lose their status as a true Seattleite? Can they regain it if they get a tattoo of the Space Needle on their ass? And who gets to decide these things? Should every resident be subject to a citywide referendum on who really belongs here?
94
@52
Not all humor is satire based. Some humor uses surprise. Surprise based humor is hard to pull off on the Internet as it lacks the possibilities for inflection and timing of a live performance.
I found your post to be dry and uninteresting and I almost stopped reading it. I'm glad I didn't stop though as there was a great punch-line at the end; posted by common sense.
Now that's fucking funny, and the timing of the delivery is perfect.
Here's the thing though, even if the build up changes when you keep using the same punch-line over and over it starts to get rather droll. I think a changeup and some new material could restore your humor to its former luster.
Not all humor is satire based. Some humor uses surprise. Surprise based humor is hard to pull off on the Internet as it lacks the possibilities for inflection and timing of a live performance.
I found your post to be dry and uninteresting and I almost stopped reading it. I'm glad I didn't stop though as there was a great punch-line at the end; posted by common sense.
Now that's fucking funny, and the timing of the delivery is perfect.
Here's the thing though, even if the build up changes when you keep using the same punch-line over and over it starts to get rather droll. I think a changeup and some new material could restore your humor to its former luster.
95
To the one KOMO stooge posting here: Savage probably gets 1000x more threats than Ginter ever will. Sure this is an elephant crushing a gnat. But the gnat has it coming.
This story was outrageous, and the absence of a journalistic retraction is outrageous. I see corrections EVERY DAY in the Wall Street Journal or New York Times. This story was about willfully misleading the viewer for precisely the reasons Dan has listed. I COULD INVENT STORIES LIKE THIS ALL DAY but they are not journalism and how are they SOLVING PROBLEMS?
Ignoring the fact Lewis and Ginter are tools is like ignoring the fact G.W. Bush is one, too. Screw your cynicism! Let's clean house of these hacks.
This story was outrageous, and the absence of a journalistic retraction is outrageous. I see corrections EVERY DAY in the Wall Street Journal or New York Times. This story was about willfully misleading the viewer for precisely the reasons Dan has listed. I COULD INVENT STORIES LIKE THIS ALL DAY but they are not journalism and how are they SOLVING PROBLEMS?
Ignoring the fact Lewis and Ginter are tools is like ignoring the fact G.W. Bush is one, too. Screw your cynicism! Let's clean house of these hacks.
96
@common sense, you're fucking delusional, and I say that with malice aforethought.
Marlee Ginter, and by her representation of them, KOMO, was attacking and slandering a perfectly harmless and socially beneficial organization and all of the 10,000* past and present members of that organization in her report.
Dan is simply responding in kind, and doing a hell of a great job of it, in my opinion. There won't be any lawsuit, there won't be any settlement, and you clearly don't have any grasp of the law. KOMO embarrassed themselves, Dan and lots of other folks are just taking the opportunity to exercise their right of free speech and vigorously point this out. Even if KOMO or Ginter *were* silly or stupid enough to file a lawsuit (because in this country anyone can sue anyone for anything. Whether or not they stand a snowball's chance in hell of winning is another matter), it would simply serve the purpose of dragging the embarrassment and public mockery out further.
And in case you haven't noticed, KOMO has done everything that was in their power to make the story disappear. I'm grateful for public spirited folks like Dan Savage who refuse to let them.
You need to do something about that cranial-rectal inversion you're suffering from.
(*yes, that's accurate, and it's probably more than that by now)
Marlee Ginter, and by her representation of them, KOMO, was attacking and slandering a perfectly harmless and socially beneficial organization and all of the 10,000* past and present members of that organization in her report.
Dan is simply responding in kind, and doing a hell of a great job of it, in my opinion. There won't be any lawsuit, there won't be any settlement, and you clearly don't have any grasp of the law. KOMO embarrassed themselves, Dan and lots of other folks are just taking the opportunity to exercise their right of free speech and vigorously point this out. Even if KOMO or Ginter *were* silly or stupid enough to file a lawsuit (because in this country anyone can sue anyone for anything. Whether or not they stand a snowball's chance in hell of winning is another matter), it would simply serve the purpose of dragging the embarrassment and public mockery out further.
And in case you haven't noticed, KOMO has done everything that was in their power to make the story disappear. I'm grateful for public spirited folks like Dan Savage who refuse to let them.
You need to do something about that cranial-rectal inversion you're suffering from.
(*yes, that's accurate, and it's probably more than that by now)
100
Let me help you out here--
Ginter: lies, distortion, exploitation, manipulation, hypocrisy, dishonesty.
Savage: Indignation, outrage, satire, parody, invective and rebuttal.
Which of these should be filed under the category of "malice"?
No, don't bother... you've proven yourself wrong multiple times already, can't be expected to start getting it right now.
Ginter: lies, distortion, exploitation, manipulation, hypocrisy, dishonesty.
Savage: Indignation, outrage, satire, parody, invective and rebuttal.
Which of these should be filed under the category of "malice"?
No, don't bother... you've proven yourself wrong multiple times already, can't be expected to start getting it right now.
101
@97
Nor did Ginter “act” with skill. By my critique her abilities as an actress are even worse than her abilities as an alleged journalist. She was unable to convince her audience that her self-righteous indignation as a sexophobic was genuine. While we might speculate on whatever else Marlee is and is not blowing, the consensus is that she blew this bit.
Ironically her acting performance as a self-righteous sexophobic was so poor, it seems to have brought more attention to this particular minor piece than any of her other prior performances. It's almost like a cult following only built on distain rather than admiration, her performance was trashy but it was in no way campy. I suspect because of all this in the unlikely event that she is given any future acting auditions; she may be forever doomed to be type-casted into this type of role.
I'm sure there are plenty of narrow-minded small towns were soap operas dressed up as news play well, this town just isn't one of them.
Nor did Ginter “act” with skill. By my critique her abilities as an actress are even worse than her abilities as an alleged journalist. She was unable to convince her audience that her self-righteous indignation as a sexophobic was genuine. While we might speculate on whatever else Marlee is and is not blowing, the consensus is that she blew this bit.
Ironically her acting performance as a self-righteous sexophobic was so poor, it seems to have brought more attention to this particular minor piece than any of her other prior performances. It's almost like a cult following only built on distain rather than admiration, her performance was trashy but it was in no way campy. I suspect because of all this in the unlikely event that she is given any future acting auditions; she may be forever doomed to be type-casted into this type of role.
I'm sure there are plenty of narrow-minded small towns were soap operas dressed up as news play well, this town just isn't one of them.
102
Don't kid yourself. This entire slog is nothing but a sick soap opera. It is a haven for small minded people. Just because you fringe group resides within a minor subculture of a big city does not lend you additional credibility.
This entire discussion is an example of narrow minded hate. The group think here is epic. A classic example of simpletons lining up to follow an idiot. Dan may be the tallest midget, but he can't play with the big boys.
Don't pretend that this site represents Seattle. This site represents a tiny fringe of the fringe.
This entire discussion is an example of narrow minded hate. The group think here is epic. A classic example of simpletons lining up to follow an idiot. Dan may be the tallest midget, but he can't play with the big boys.
Don't pretend that this site represents Seattle. This site represents a tiny fringe of the fringe.
103
Common sense, since you aren't answering my questions, I will take it that you are not a lawyer, let alone one who knows anything about libel. Please stop pretending that you understand the situation.
104
@ 91, My name is Matt FROM Denver, not Matt IN Denver. When we ASSUME...
I'll take it, from the rest of your comment, that you aren't a party to the "Seattle ought to be a Big City" crowd? Because if you are, then you're going to have to listen to those of us that know a bit about Big Cities. (And no, I'm not talking about Denver...)
I'll take it, from the rest of your comment, that you aren't a party to the "Seattle ought to be a Big City" crowd? Because if you are, then you're going to have to listen to those of us that know a bit about Big Cities. (And no, I'm not talking about Denver...)
105
When anticipated sick soap operas are awesome! I would like to thank the majority of the folks who have left comments here that have lived up to my high expectations for low vulgarity.
106
#102 hits the nail on the head. Two great examples: (1) Dan's recent whiny, bullying performance on CNN; (2) Dan's worshippers parroting everything out of his mouth event down to his snarky, petty "SECKS" spelling.
You're being as ignorant, bullying, and narrow-minded as the most zealous of the far right. The Falwells, Limbaughs and Buchanans got nothin' on you.
You're being as ignorant, bullying, and narrow-minded as the most zealous of the far right. The Falwells, Limbaughs and Buchanans got nothin' on you.
109
MARLEE GINTER SUPPORTS PIT BULL OWNERS!!!!
SHE'S 0 FOR 2.
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/34727…
just to piss of everyone at the stranger, she'll soon feature pieces favoring rebuilding the viaduct or something....
SHE'S 0 FOR 2.
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/34727…
just to piss of everyone at the stranger, she'll soon feature pieces favoring rebuilding the viaduct or something....
113
I am surprised that for all the sexually liberal attitudes here, people still don't seem to know basic anatomy - i.e., they don't know their arses from a hole in the ground.
You are blaming the wrong person. Ms. Ginter was instructed to do this story by the people who employ her. This was pitched and approved by others, including some people who have been in Seattle upwards of 20 years. Perhaps you should take this up with them.
Do YOUR research first. This is pathetic. Find the truth of the situation, and the facts, then move forward. Your investigative techniques are as shoddy as those you criticize.
You are blaming the wrong person. Ms. Ginter was instructed to do this story by the people who employ her. This was pitched and approved by others, including some people who have been in Seattle upwards of 20 years. Perhaps you should take this up with them.
Do YOUR research first. This is pathetic. Find the truth of the situation, and the facts, then move forward. Your investigative techniques are as shoddy as those you criticize.
118
This is unbelievable, do you know what this does to a single mother. Her child has been threatened and called goat sucker. Her life has been threatened. For a silly sex club piece.
I would have agreed with you up to a point but please stop this, it is much more hateful then anything she or KOMO have ever done.
You have undone anything you may have done to help your cause. Shame Shame Shame on you!
I would have agreed with you up to a point but please stop this, it is much more hateful then anything she or KOMO have ever done.
You have undone anything you may have done to help your cause. Shame Shame Shame on you!
119
maybe she's single cos the goat ate her husband.
goats have been known to eat all kinds of crazy sh*t.
but if she's teaching her kid to suck off goats, CPS should be called. that is not appropriate.
goats have been known to eat all kinds of crazy sh*t.
but if she's teaching her kid to suck off goats, CPS should be called. that is not appropriate.
120
well if she is so hurt... maybe it's time for her to apologize for this shitty piece of trash she calls journalism? and apologize to alexander? and apologize to SCPSC?
No? No apology yet?
carry on....
No? No apology yet?
carry on....
121
Is anyone from the stranger paying attention? Is it ok with you that people are attacking innocent children on your web site? Is that something that you approve of?
How can you possibly argue that Mrs. Ginter's children are fair game for your attacks?
Dan, I hope you are proud. This is quite an accomplishment to add to your resume. Maybe you can make a trophy for your mantel commemorating the time you formed an angry mob to attack little kids.
I don't know if you are a parent Dan. I suppose not. I can't imagine that any parent would ever lead this kind of attack against innocent children. I hope no one else (including you and your family, Dan) ever has to endure the type of harassment Mrs. Ginter and her children have at your hands.
The damage that you have already caused can not be undone. Please end this now. You made your point. Don't raise questions about the club where you like to have sex or you will attack in the most vulgar and damaging way possible, and children are fair game. We get it! It's time to move on.
How can you possibly argue that Mrs. Ginter's children are fair game for your attacks?
Dan, I hope you are proud. This is quite an accomplishment to add to your resume. Maybe you can make a trophy for your mantel commemorating the time you formed an angry mob to attack little kids.
I don't know if you are a parent Dan. I suppose not. I can't imagine that any parent would ever lead this kind of attack against innocent children. I hope no one else (including you and your family, Dan) ever has to endure the type of harassment Mrs. Ginter and her children have at your hands.
The damage that you have already caused can not be undone. Please end this now. You made your point. Don't raise questions about the club where you like to have sex or you will attack in the most vulgar and damaging way possible, and children are fair game. We get it! It's time to move on.
123
A mob attack on little kids, Please? Can you provide a link to any report of that? Ms. Ginter and KOMO are being called out on what THEY did.
125
If Ginter can't stand the heat, she needs to apologize or get out of the kitchen. Baseless attacks need to stop. If not, you WILL get blowback. TV stations need to consider the pieces they run. They basically attacked this club, implying that they are using government $. She needs to say that the club is NOT using federal funds, it is a simple nonprofit, no different then the sportsman's fishing/hunting club I belong to, and say she is sorry for a misleading piece. KOMO brought it on themselves. They could have nipped it in the bud and retracted right away, but refused. It's the same as Fox going to the Castro to cover fundies egging on gayz right after the 8 vote and saying the gayz are unstable and violent. It's hack journalism.
126
Um, to all of you asking if Ginter has apologized... since when has Dan *ever* apologized for his own hack journalism? Like his personal attacks on Jamie Pedersen during his first run for state legislature? Or that stupid piece of Halloween "parody" that listed home addresses of people with Republican election signs in their yards, which caused a big Internet shitstorm, which the Stranger subsequently pulled from their site, and for which they issued a snarky non-pology?
If Dan is willing to apologize, *then* he can demand one from Ginter. Until then, he should just STFU. Whatever point he was trying to make (that Ginter and her report were wrong and that she should publicly correct the record) got lost when he launched a personal attack on her. Dan is in his what, 40's? And yet he still hasn't learned that calling people names and bullying them probably isn't the best way to get what you want. If anything, it makes you look like an immature, vindictive asshole. In the end, it makes it easier for Ginter and KOMO to write him off, because to apologize now just looks like they're caving in to a lunatic. He would have been much better served by taking the high road and forcing the issue of journalistic integrity without the personal insults.
In the end the whole think just looks self-defeating. Ginter and KOMO haven't apologized (and probably never will), Savage looks like a jerk, and the story will probably never get corrected. Nice work!
If Dan is willing to apologize, *then* he can demand one from Ginter. Until then, he should just STFU. Whatever point he was trying to make (that Ginter and her report were wrong and that she should publicly correct the record) got lost when he launched a personal attack on her. Dan is in his what, 40's? And yet he still hasn't learned that calling people names and bullying them probably isn't the best way to get what you want. If anything, it makes you look like an immature, vindictive asshole. In the end, it makes it easier for Ginter and KOMO to write him off, because to apologize now just looks like they're caving in to a lunatic. He would have been much better served by taking the high road and forcing the issue of journalistic integrity without the personal insults.
In the end the whole think just looks self-defeating. Ginter and KOMO haven't apologized (and probably never will), Savage looks like a jerk, and the story will probably never get corrected. Nice work!
127
Although this paper is primarily RE: Seattle, Savage Love is a nationally syndicated column, & there are folks reading SLOG/the Stranger from all around the country (upstate NY here). Yes, it's primarily Seattle issues, but some topics are bigger. Although Ms. Ginter may not have written the story, she's the one who read it on TV; her expression of mock horror is what people are gonna remember; & that's why she's the one catching the flack. I feel sorry for her, a little, but you should be able to stand behind the story you present. That is part of your duty as a public figure.
Dan IS a parent, actually. He had to fight to become one. I don't recall him mentioning anyone's kids. Leave them out of it. This is an adult issue.
This is a bigger problem because the news has been fudged slightly, here & there, for years now, & we all just take it. There's celebrity talkin' heads, blingy graphics, only 6 independent feeds for most major news stories & countless uses of "unnamed sources", sensationalism & smoke & mirrors. (Does anyone else want to bitch-slap Nancy Grace?) I remember there being a magazine called Brill's Content where the media was called to task for its various inaccuracies. It is *long* defunct.
Like we need people casting an evil eye on a sex club, which is one fo the few places people can get there kinky groove on, fairly safely? AND like we need people getting deliberately misquoted, with their own words?
The bells & whistles have to go. I'd like to see someone talking on the news & not have to sift their opinion, or some producer's opinion, from the facts. The day the OJ verdict was read, I canceled the cable TV subscription to my home, no shit. There's no difference between news & entertainment. It's fucked. There has been no TV connected in my home since. It's a box for playing DVD's & the Wii.
I'm glad the story was pulled. There should be some form of apology to the author & to the club, even if it's just something unofficial. Something.
More...
Dan IS a parent, actually. He had to fight to become one. I don't recall him mentioning anyone's kids. Leave them out of it. This is an adult issue.
This is a bigger problem because the news has been fudged slightly, here & there, for years now, & we all just take it. There's celebrity talkin' heads, blingy graphics, only 6 independent feeds for most major news stories & countless uses of "unnamed sources", sensationalism & smoke & mirrors. (Does anyone else want to bitch-slap Nancy Grace?) I remember there being a magazine called Brill's Content where the media was called to task for its various inaccuracies. It is *long* defunct.
Like we need people casting an evil eye on a sex club, which is one fo the few places people can get there kinky groove on, fairly safely? AND like we need people getting deliberately misquoted, with their own words?
The bells & whistles have to go. I'd like to see someone talking on the news & not have to sift their opinion, or some producer's opinion, from the facts. The day the OJ verdict was read, I canceled the cable TV subscription to my home, no shit. There's no difference between news & entertainment. It's fucked. There has been no TV connected in my home since. It's a box for playing DVD's & the Wii.
I'm glad the story was pulled. There should be some form of apology to the author & to the club, even if it's just something unofficial. Something.
128
#126 - Why would Dan apologize for articles he didn't write? Certainly not because he's the "editor" (term used very loosely here) or anything.
Dan isn't going after the editors or superiors of the reporter because this is his very personal, self-admitted "obsessive" issue.
I'm not surprised the Cult Of Dan faithful have all jumped on his coattails here, even knowing how absurd and inconsequential the entire matter is.
High-larious.
Dan isn't going after the editors or superiors of the reporter because this is his very personal, self-admitted "obsessive" issue.
I'm not surprised the Cult Of Dan faithful have all jumped on his coattails here, even knowing how absurd and inconsequential the entire matter is.
High-larious.
130
@77 - We (Seattleites) don't want to be big-time. Anyone arriving after June 30, 1995 please go home.
131
I haven't seen anywhere on the interned where Ms. Ginter has asked for an apology. I haven't seen any place where she has ever addressed this matter.
This is a pretty one sided fight. In fact this is not a fight at all. It is a public harassment. Dan just keeps attacking and she goes on with her work. I've been watching her on the news, and I think she is doing a nice job. Seattle news need more reporters like her.
Dan keeps demanding an apology. I suspect he is just looking for some way to justify the harm which he has caused. He wants to claim that Ms. Ginter started this. She did not, nor has she participated in it. She simply filed a news report that Dan Savage did not like, and then moved on to her next assignment. Ms. Ginter is obviously a classy professional. It is admirable that she has not bowed to the depths of Dan Savage. It is obvious who's the journalist and who's the immature bully screaming for attention.
This is a pretty one sided fight. In fact this is not a fight at all. It is a public harassment. Dan just keeps attacking and she goes on with her work. I've been watching her on the news, and I think she is doing a nice job. Seattle news need more reporters like her.
Dan keeps demanding an apology. I suspect he is just looking for some way to justify the harm which he has caused. He wants to claim that Ms. Ginter started this. She did not, nor has she participated in it. She simply filed a news report that Dan Savage did not like, and then moved on to her next assignment. Ms. Ginter is obviously a classy professional. It is admirable that she has not bowed to the depths of Dan Savage. It is obvious who's the journalist and who's the immature bully screaming for attention.
132
it wasn't a news report
classy? journalist? professional?
none of these words describe that annoying turd eating, goat suckin ginter.
classy? journalist? professional?
none of these words describe that annoying turd eating, goat suckin ginter.
133
@117. How about you read comment #12. I'll wait. . . . Good, good. Now you can go fuck yourself.
Blessings.
Blessings.
134
Ginter wrote the story, she even wrote the intro Dan Lewis read, at least that is how it usually goes in TV news land. She is the one who presented it to the public and thus gets the glory (or the shame of the story)
Geri22 @113 I'd like to know how you did YOUR research? Do you perhaps work at KOMO? How could you know who decided the story should be done otherwise?
Besides, my "favorite" Ginter story is when she went around to local convenience stores and accused them of selling "crack pipes" "close to local schools", when they were obviously bongs/pipes for pot use.
She wants to be a hard hitting journalist, asking tough questions, but really she just interrupts people a lot and isn't willing to do the research which is the root of the issue here. She didn't do her job as a journalist.
And also those terrible fake contacts make her look like some horror movie zombie.
Geri22 @113 I'd like to know how you did YOUR research? Do you perhaps work at KOMO? How could you know who decided the story should be done otherwise?
Besides, my "favorite" Ginter story is when she went around to local convenience stores and accused them of selling "crack pipes" "close to local schools", when they were obviously bongs/pipes for pot use.
She wants to be a hard hitting journalist, asking tough questions, but really she just interrupts people a lot and isn't willing to do the research which is the root of the issue here. She didn't do her job as a journalist.
And also those terrible fake contacts make her look like some horror movie zombie.
136
Good note Dan, but understand this as a person who does work in the media. I do not think she has a choice on airing an apology. And I heard through the "media grapevine" that she was not the one to pitch this story. I even heard she did not even want to do it from the start.
But I do not work as a journalist because of stories like the one she produced. I work in it for the better. All stations have done a lot of great things for the community and also a lot of controversial and even slanted stories. But I have come to learn over my many years that you cannot satisfy everyone. Voice your concerns, protest, write letters if you feel a story is not represented well. And never stop until you hear back. But to degrade, humiliate, or demonize a person you do not even know is just as wrong as the story Marlee produced.
Her rude interruptions during a story do bother me and her aggressive style is a bit over the top. But I hear she is a nice person and a great coworker to work with.
But I do not work as a journalist because of stories like the one she produced. I work in it for the better. All stations have done a lot of great things for the community and also a lot of controversial and even slanted stories. But I have come to learn over my many years that you cannot satisfy everyone. Voice your concerns, protest, write letters if you feel a story is not represented well. And never stop until you hear back. But to degrade, humiliate, or demonize a person you do not even know is just as wrong as the story Marlee produced.
Her rude interruptions during a story do bother me and her aggressive style is a bit over the top. But I hear she is a nice person and a great coworker to work with.
137
@ 130, (and also @ joykiller), you better make sure all the other "native Seattlites" [drop the silent e] feel like you do before you speak for them, because there are no shortage of them who talk about making this place "world class."
138
It's funny, in the days before the internet, public blowback, or gathering support for defense against unfair treatment, wasn't so easy. Ok so this Ginter thing is much more trivial, but think about these: the Right didn't know what to do about all the viral emails and fact-checking during the election, and the anti-gays have been bewildered with the scope of the negative response (mobilized via internet) to Prop 8.
It's great - one of the things that the internet does is it makes it really easy to call people out on bullshit. Before internet, only KOMO had the power to broadcast its crap to the thousands. WITH internet, Dan can "broadcast" via a simple itty bitty blog, a response to the bullshit. And he can get a ton of regular people to help out. And we can do it for FREE.
People still aren't used to this, but it is totally rad.
It's great - one of the things that the internet does is it makes it really easy to call people out on bullshit. Before internet, only KOMO had the power to broadcast its crap to the thousands. WITH internet, Dan can "broadcast" via a simple itty bitty blog, a response to the bullshit. And he can get a ton of regular people to help out. And we can do it for FREE.
People still aren't used to this, but it is totally rad.
140
I see all you fresh-faced kidlets, sitting there in your neat little rows, and you're all just pods. Pods, waiting for your instructions. Now, some of you are gonna get zapped right away and be 15-year-old prodigies, little midget Olympic gymnasts with their pictures on cereal boxes. Some of you will go on to college, and you'll find your rhythm there, then go chase down the titans of industry, or maybe straighten out our problems at the UN. But some of you, and this is the group that no one ever comes into Career Day and addresses, and it's criminal. Some of you are just gonna float along, eating spicy foods, humming black people's music into your 30s. Well into your 30s, languishing. This group of pods is gonna do a lot of languishing. And you're gonna take some heat for it. Sadly, you will. Europe's a little easier. They seem to understand a little better. So does South America. I went to Argentina one time, and everyone seemed to be sitting around. It was beautiful. But, that's okay. You stay loose. Stay liquid. Laugh a lot. But be ready. That's what Dupree's doing with his life's little pod. Staying nimble, till I get the call from the mother ship. My raison d'etat. Then I fight. Then you'll see Dupree coming in here throwing seven different kinds of smoke!
141
Way out west there was this fella I wanna tell ya about. Goes by the name of Jeff Lebowski. At least that was the handle his loving parents gave him, but he never had much use for it himself. See, this Lebowski, he called himself "The Dude". Now, "Dude" - there's a name no man would self-apply where I come from. But then there was a lot about the Dude that didn't make a whole lot of sense. And a lot about where he lived, likewise. But then again, maybe that's why I found the place so darned interestin'. See, they call Los Angeles the "City Of Angels"; but I didn't find it to be that, exactly. But I'll allow it as there are some nice folks there. 'Course I ain't never been to London, and I ain't never seen France. And I ain't never seen no queen in her damned undies, so the feller says. But I'll tell you what - after seeing Los Angeles, and this here story I'm about to unfold, well, I guess I seen somethin' every bit as stupefyin' as you'd seen in any of them other places. And in English, too. So I can die with a smile on my face, without feelin' like the good Lord gypped me. Now this here story I'm about to unfold took place in the early '90s - just about the time of our conflict with Sad'm and the I-raqis. I only mention it because sometimes there's a man... I won't say a hero, 'cause, what's a hero? Sometimes, there's a man. And I'm talkin' about the Dude here - the Dude from Los Angeles. Sometimes, there's a man, well, he's the man for his time and place. He fits right in there. And that's the Dude. The Dude, from Los Angeles. And even if he's a lazy man - and the Dude was most certainly that. Quite possibly the laziest in all of Los Angeles County, which would place him high in the runnin' for laziest worldwide. Sometimes there's a man, sometimes, there's a man. Well, I lost my train of thought here. But... aw, hell. I've done introduced it enough.
More...
142
Hi. Welcome to the future. San Dimas, California, 2688. And I'm telling you, it's great here. The air is clean. The water's clean. Even the dirt... is clean. Bowling averages are way up. Mini-golf scores are way down. And we have more excellent waterslides than any other planet we communicate with. I'm telling you, this place is great. But it almost wasn't. You see, 700 years ago the Two Great Ones ran into a few problems. So now I have to travel back in time to help them out. If I should fail to keep these two on the correct path, the basis of our society will be in danger. Don't worry. It'll all make sense. I'm a professional.
143
The Facts about the Story from me, the person Interviewed.
According to Ms. Ginter she is the one who pitched the story. Someone from KOMO was reading America Unzipped and mentioned us in the newsroom and Marlee told me she thought it would be an interesting story. She told me she was going to focus on our non profit status. I really had no issues with that (and still don't). However she did lie to me (said she interviewed Brian Alexander for the piece) and she did lie by omission(Never mentioned this was for Problem Solvers....I'm still curious what the problem is).
She totally manipulated Brian and my quotes and garbled most of the facts. (such as our members being able to deduct dues...wrong....me being the "owner" ....wrong). I am not surprised she didn't apologize to Brian Alexander. When I wrote her and told her that I was unhappy with story she replied that she was "stunned" that I didn't like it. She actually thought I'd appreciate the story. sigh
And KOMO pulled the piece in less than 11 hours. Makes you wonder.
As for all this brouhaha...well it got me an hour long radio interview with Schram and Carlson (very fun and positive) and it got us a lot of attention, new members and some donations. All in all, not bad.
Oh, and honestly, I'm not crazy about the "sucking goats" blog...but I do appreciate all the other blogs.
Thanks to all of you who support us and the sex positive community (oh, and an fyi, we don't take taxpayers money we are just exempt from paying federal income tax on our tiny profit.)
Allena Gabosch
Executive Director
According to Ms. Ginter she is the one who pitched the story. Someone from KOMO was reading America Unzipped and mentioned us in the newsroom and Marlee told me she thought it would be an interesting story. She told me she was going to focus on our non profit status. I really had no issues with that (and still don't). However she did lie to me (said she interviewed Brian Alexander for the piece) and she did lie by omission(Never mentioned this was for Problem Solvers....I'm still curious what the problem is).
She totally manipulated Brian and my quotes and garbled most of the facts. (such as our members being able to deduct dues...wrong....me being the "owner" ....wrong). I am not surprised she didn't apologize to Brian Alexander. When I wrote her and told her that I was unhappy with story she replied that she was "stunned" that I didn't like it. She actually thought I'd appreciate the story. sigh
And KOMO pulled the piece in less than 11 hours. Makes you wonder.
As for all this brouhaha...well it got me an hour long radio interview with Schram and Carlson (very fun and positive) and it got us a lot of attention, new members and some donations. All in all, not bad.
Oh, and honestly, I'm not crazy about the "sucking goats" blog...but I do appreciate all the other blogs.
Thanks to all of you who support us and the sex positive community (oh, and an fyi, we don't take taxpayers money we are just exempt from paying federal income tax on our tiny profit.)
Allena Gabosch
Executive Director
144
Ah come on, Adrian, it's true. I was nobody. But that don't matter either, you know? 'Cause I was thinkin', it really don't matter if I lose this fight. It really don't matter if this guy opens my head, either. 'Cause all I wanna do is go the distance. Nobody's ever gone the distance with Creed, and if I can go that distance, you see, and that bell rings and I'm still standin', I'm gonna know for the first time in my life, see, that I weren't just another bum from the neighborhood.
145
You don't understand. Johnny Fontane never gets that movie. That part is perfect for him, it'll make him a big star, and I'm gonna run him out of the business - and let me tell you why: Johnny Fontane ruined one of Woltz International's most valuable proteges. For three years we had her under contract - singing lessons, dancing lessons, acting lessons. I spent hundreds of thousands of dollars. I was gonna make her a big star. And let me be even more frank, just to show you that I'm not a hard-hearted man, and that it's not all dollars and cents: She was beautiful; she was innocent. She was the greatest piece of ass I've ever had, and I've had it all over the world. And then Johnny Fontane comes along with his olive oil voice and guinea charm, and she runs off. She threw it all away just to make me look ridiculous! And a man in my position can't afford to be made to look ridiculous! No you get the hell out of here. And you tell that gumba that if he wants to try any rough stuff that I ain't no band leader. Yeah, I heard that story.
146
The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.
147
See, this is the point, for me, where it started to look like a problem. You know, I wanted to sacrifice the procentral vein in order to get some exposure, but because of this guy's normal variation, I got excited, and all of a sudden I didn't know whether I was looking at the procentral vein, or one of the internal cerebral veins, or the vein of Galen, or the vasular vein of Rosenthal. So, on my own, to me, at this point, I was ready to say that's it, let's get out.
148
@126 - I do believe Dan HAS apologized for all his Iraq War is goodGoodGOOD bullshit back in the beginning. So now that THAT question is settled, has Ginter gotten the goat dick out of her mouth long enough to apologize?
149
The part of the story I don't like is that the little boy gave up looking for Happy after an hour. He didn't put posters up or anything, he just sat on the porch like a goon and waited. That little boy's gotta think 'You got a pet. You got a responsibility.' If your dog is lost you don't look for an hour then call it quits. You get your ass out there and you find that fucking dog.
150
It breaks down like this: it's legal to buy it, it's legal to own it, and, if you're the proprietor of a hash bar, it's legal to sell it. It's legal to carry it, but that doesn't really matter 'cause - get a load of this - if you get stopped by the cops in Amsterdam, it's illegal for them to search you. I mean, that's a right the cops in Amsterdam don't have.
151
Suddenly, a familiar song. And, you're off your chair in one, exquisite movement... wondering, searching, sniffing the wind like a dapple deer. Has God heard your little prayer? Will Cinderella dance again? And then, suddenly, the crowds part and there he is: sleek, stylish... radiant with charisma. Bizarrely, he's on the telephone. But then, so are you. And then he comes towards you... the moves of a jungle cat. Although you quite correctly sense that he is... gay... like most devastatingly handsome single men of his age are, you think... what the hell. Life goes on. Maybe there won't be marriage... maybe there won't be sex... but, by God, there'll be dancing.
152
Q2) How do I know if a dolphin wants to have sex?
A2) There are various ways a dolphin has of showing that she or he is interested in sex.
Males are probably the easiest to detect. They will swim around, sporting an erection (anywhere between 10 to 14 inches long for a Bottle-nose), and will have no bones about swimming up to you and placing their member within reach of your hand. If you are in the water, they may rub it along any part of your body, or wrap it around your wrist or ankle. (Dolphin males have a prehensile penis. They can wrap it around objects, and carry them as such.) Their belly will also be pinkish in colour, which also denotes sexual excitement.
Females can be a little harder. The most obvious way a female dolphin has of displaying her sexual interest is the pink-belly effect. Their genitals become very pink and swollen, making the genital region very prominent. They may be restless, or they may be acting as normal. If you are out of the water, they may swim up to you and roll belly up, exposing themselves to you, coupled with pelvic thrusts. If you are in the water, they may press their genitals up against yours, nibble your fingers, nuzzle your crotch, or do pelvic thrusts against you.
Each dolphins way of expressing sexual readiness varies, so the longer you know the dolphin, the better you will detect when they are sexually active.
Q3) What do I do if a dolphin wants to mate with me?
A3) Accept, if possible! I will go through the steps involved with males and females...
The Male:
When a male dolphin is interested in you, about the only thing you can do, if you are male, is to masturbate him. (Unfortunately, I cannot speak for the female of the human species... it seems women just don't like dolphins enough... so I cannot say for sure if it is safe to mate with them. I would suspect not, due to a dolphins size, but then again, I cannot say for a woman.) WARNING! In the considerations of safety, you should NEVER let a male dolphin attempt anal sex with you. The Bottle-nose dolphin member is around 12 inches, very muscular, and the thrusting and the force of ejaculation (A male can come as far as 14 feet) would cause serious internal injuries, resulting in peritonitus and possible death. Unless you are the masochistic type, you will have a hard time explaining your predicament to the doctors in the emergency ward....
A male dolphin's member is roughly S-shaped, tapered at the end. If you are in the water with them, it is best to support the dolphin on his side, just under the water, with one hand, and handle him with the other. Male dolphins, I find, tend to prefer the base of the penis to be gently massaged and squeezed, as well as gently rubbed along it's length. It feels very much like the rest of the dolphin (ie. smooth and rubbery to the touch, but firmer). It doesn't take long for the male to ejaculate, around 40 seconds to a minute, and this is usually accompanied by either shuddering just prior to ejaculating, and thrusting and tail-arching during ejaculation. The force of ejaculation can be powerful at times, so it is best to keep your face out of the line of fire, or keep his member underwater. You can attempt to lick and suck on the end of it while masturbating as well, but be warned, do not try to give full throat, and get the hell out of the way before he ejaculates! A male dolphin could snap your neck in an accidental thrust, and that would be the end of that relationship.
The Female:
Well, the females are again a little trickier. There are two courses of action with a female fin: Masturbation, or mating.
Masturbation: Female dolphins, once they show interest in you, can be supported in much the same way as the male, one hand under the fin, supporting her, the other doing the stimulating. The clitoris of the female is located at the top of the genital slit, and is a prominent lump when erect. You can rub this with your finger tips, or lick and suck it, but with the oral aspect, you might end up with a bruised nose as they thrust up into you. You can slide your hand gently into their genital opening, and feel around inside, rubbing gently. They feel warm and muscular inside, their labia like tough, squishy sponge when they are excited. Don't be surprised if they start to play with your hand inside them. They have very manipulative muscles, and can use them to carry and manipulate objects, including your hand. (They can do things that would make a regular human woman turn green with envy.) Their climax is coupled with stiffening, shuddering, sometimes a lot of thrusting, clinching of the vaginal muscles, and sometimes vocalisation.
Mating: This is harder. Obviously, being human, it is awkward, but not impossible to mate in open water. It is easier to have the dolphin in a shallow area (like the shallows just off the beach) around 1 1/2 to 2 feet deep. This is usually comfortable enough for both the dolphin and you. Gently, you should roll the dolphin on her side, so she is lying belly-towards you. You can prop yourself up on an elbow, and lie belly to belly against her. You may want to use the other arm to gently hold her close, and place the tip of your member against her genital slit. She will, if interested, arch her body up against you, taking you inside her body. There is usually a fair bit of wriggling and shifting, usually to get comfortable, both outside and inside. Once comfortable, though, females initiate a series of muscular vaginal contractions that rub the entire length of your member. They may also thrust rhythmically against you, so enjoy the experience while you can, since you will rarely last longer that a minute or two. Just prior to her climaxing, she will up the speed of her contractions and thrusts. It is interesting to note that the times I have mated with females, thay have timed their orgasm to mine. Whether they do this consciously or not, I do not know, but it is a great feeling to have two bodies shuddering against each other at the one time.
One thing to note. Whether you masturbate or mate a fin, male or female, always spend time with them afterwards. Cuddle them, rub them, talk to them and most importantly, and show them you love them. This is essential, as it helps to strengthen the bond between you. Like a way of saying that this wasn't just a one night fling. The dolphins appreciate it, and they will want your company more the next time you visit them.
Q4) What diseases can I get from dolphins? Can I give them any?
A4) I have had no experiences with Sexually Transmitted Diseases (STD's) with dolphins, so I couldn't rightfully say. I do know, however, that you can pass the Flu between you, along with other respiratory problems. (I got a cold when a dolphin sneezed on me once. It cleared up after a week or so.) You can also pass some skin irritations on to them, if you handle them with chaffed or broken skin. Just like with a human, it is best to BE CLEAN when you handle a dolphin. If you have cuts on your hands, avoid touching them unless you wash with a Betadine surgical scrub prior to handling. This is available from most Veterinary and Surgical suppliers. If you have some disease of some sort, avoid mating, for the dolphins sake. This is a little known area, more so because Zoophilia is considered illegal in many places (which I think is a load of crud, but the law's the law....)
Q5) Is their any way I can invite a dolphin to be masturbated?
A5) Well, yes. If they are hanging around, but not looking particularly excited, but you are, you can invite them with this way...
Male and Female dolphins can be invited by rolling them on their sides, again, but instead of going straight to the genital slit, rub along their bellies, between their pectoral fins, along the navel, and every once in a while, over the genital slit. If they are responsive, they will show the signs of excitement as described earlier, and you can proceed as usual. If, however, they are not responsive, they will swim away, or turn back upright. DO NOT force the issue with a dolphin! Trying to restrain them will only break their trust in you, and could cause you serious injury. Pat them, stroke them and talk to them lovingly, but do not try anything else. It is best, anyway, to let the dolphin tell you when they are ready. It is far more pleasant, and more fulfilling anyway. And more special.
Q6) Where can I find a dolphin to mate with?
A6) Aquariums are a bad choice, for many reasons. Too public, the dolphins are not in their natural habitat, night visits are impossible, etc etc... some may have external enclosures, which may be accesable, but that is no guarantee. Best thing sometimes is to find a beach or a cove that the dolphins frequent. It takes time to develop a relationship with a dolphin to the point where they will let you mate with them (although some have been as quick as 3 days to acclimatize). Gaining their trust takes time, and you need to visit frequently. This is impossible for some people, I understand, but it is the best way. Sometimes you just need to be in the right place at the right time. I have been extremely lucky on two occasions with wild dolphins, and my current mate is a dolphin who lives in the harbour of my resident city.
Well, I hope this is of use to whoever is interested. One final note. You should love a dolphin, not because of the sexual relief they can provide, but because they are a unique animal, one of the few wild animals that seek the company of man by their own initiative. This is special. Do not abuse it.
About the Author
I first realized I was a Delphinic Zoophile when I was 12 years old, which is when I had my first sexual encounter with a dolphin. This is not that particular occasion, since my first lover was brutally killed in an act of sensless violence that I will never forgive, or forget. She continues to live in my memories, though...
I volunteer with dolphins whenever I get the opportunity. They are special to me, highly intelligent, empathic creatures that are dear to my heart, and are a healing aspect in my life. So it was that I met this particular dolphin, a female bottle nose dolphin, 7 years old, who is residing at my home cities coastal harbour/aquarium.
She is a beautiful dolphin, inquisitive and playful, and more used to human contact than her other, older pod mates. I answer any questions the general public have about dolphins, and spend most of my free time with them, studying and talking with them. I learned through continued contact that each dolphin has a very particular personality and habits, traits useful for differentiating between the fins who are sometimes hard to distinguish on visual markings alone.
In order to avoid the bustle tourists, I usually visit the dolphins at night, illegally I must add, since I am considered to be trespassing. But it is the only time I do not have to be distracted by tourists or the staff. I do not expect to have sex with the dolphins every time I visit them; I am not that sort of person. I spend time with them because they are a relaxing and stabilizing source of peace in an otherwise hectic and unbalanced lifestyle. So it came as a pleasant surprise when this 7-year-old dolphin began to engage in sex-play with me.
I was quite happily swimming around with the dolphins when she suddenly decided to grab my foot with her genital slit. Dolphins have very muscular vaginal orifices, and can use these muscles to manipulate objects and carry them. I stayed still for a while, to see if she was just playing, but she continued to masturbate against my foot, and in the light of the torch I sometimes carry, I could see that her slit had become very pink and had swelled as well. She was aroused!
So, I started to back-paddle with my hands towards a small beached area, partially submerged in the water. A couple of times she pulled me forward into the deeper water, but eventually I got my self to the shallows. I dislodged my foot (Being careful not to pull too hard), and took her gently by a pectoral fin and rubbed her belly just to aclimatize her, I guess. She immediately rolled belly up and started doing pelvic thrusts against the palm of my hand. It was unmistakebly erotic, and by now I was fully aroused.
I stripped off my shorts, and gently pulled her into the shallows until she was lying on her side, her belly facing towards me, half submerged in the water. I nestled myself belly to belly against her, and pressed my member against her genital slit. She immediately arched her body against mine, and took me inside her body, initiating a quick series of muscular contractions with her vaginal muscles. I wrapped my left arm around her body and just held her close while she manipulated me inside her body, until I climaxed barely 2 minutes later. Surprisingly, her body also shuddered against mine, and we spent the next 5 or so minutes just lying together in the shallows, holding each other, enjoying our company and revelling in the fact that we had shared something special together, something very few people can claim to have done.
More...
A2) There are various ways a dolphin has of showing that she or he is interested in sex.
Males are probably the easiest to detect. They will swim around, sporting an erection (anywhere between 10 to 14 inches long for a Bottle-nose), and will have no bones about swimming up to you and placing their member within reach of your hand. If you are in the water, they may rub it along any part of your body, or wrap it around your wrist or ankle. (Dolphin males have a prehensile penis. They can wrap it around objects, and carry them as such.) Their belly will also be pinkish in colour, which also denotes sexual excitement.
Females can be a little harder. The most obvious way a female dolphin has of displaying her sexual interest is the pink-belly effect. Their genitals become very pink and swollen, making the genital region very prominent. They may be restless, or they may be acting as normal. If you are out of the water, they may swim up to you and roll belly up, exposing themselves to you, coupled with pelvic thrusts. If you are in the water, they may press their genitals up against yours, nibble your fingers, nuzzle your crotch, or do pelvic thrusts against you.
Each dolphins way of expressing sexual readiness varies, so the longer you know the dolphin, the better you will detect when they are sexually active.
Q3) What do I do if a dolphin wants to mate with me?
A3) Accept, if possible! I will go through the steps involved with males and females...
The Male:
When a male dolphin is interested in you, about the only thing you can do, if you are male, is to masturbate him. (Unfortunately, I cannot speak for the female of the human species... it seems women just don't like dolphins enough... so I cannot say for sure if it is safe to mate with them. I would suspect not, due to a dolphins size, but then again, I cannot say for a woman.) WARNING! In the considerations of safety, you should NEVER let a male dolphin attempt anal sex with you. The Bottle-nose dolphin member is around 12 inches, very muscular, and the thrusting and the force of ejaculation (A male can come as far as 14 feet) would cause serious internal injuries, resulting in peritonitus and possible death. Unless you are the masochistic type, you will have a hard time explaining your predicament to the doctors in the emergency ward....
A male dolphin's member is roughly S-shaped, tapered at the end. If you are in the water with them, it is best to support the dolphin on his side, just under the water, with one hand, and handle him with the other. Male dolphins, I find, tend to prefer the base of the penis to be gently massaged and squeezed, as well as gently rubbed along it's length. It feels very much like the rest of the dolphin (ie. smooth and rubbery to the touch, but firmer). It doesn't take long for the male to ejaculate, around 40 seconds to a minute, and this is usually accompanied by either shuddering just prior to ejaculating, and thrusting and tail-arching during ejaculation. The force of ejaculation can be powerful at times, so it is best to keep your face out of the line of fire, or keep his member underwater. You can attempt to lick and suck on the end of it while masturbating as well, but be warned, do not try to give full throat, and get the hell out of the way before he ejaculates! A male dolphin could snap your neck in an accidental thrust, and that would be the end of that relationship.
The Female:
Well, the females are again a little trickier. There are two courses of action with a female fin: Masturbation, or mating.
Masturbation: Female dolphins, once they show interest in you, can be supported in much the same way as the male, one hand under the fin, supporting her, the other doing the stimulating. The clitoris of the female is located at the top of the genital slit, and is a prominent lump when erect. You can rub this with your finger tips, or lick and suck it, but with the oral aspect, you might end up with a bruised nose as they thrust up into you. You can slide your hand gently into their genital opening, and feel around inside, rubbing gently. They feel warm and muscular inside, their labia like tough, squishy sponge when they are excited. Don't be surprised if they start to play with your hand inside them. They have very manipulative muscles, and can use them to carry and manipulate objects, including your hand. (They can do things that would make a regular human woman turn green with envy.) Their climax is coupled with stiffening, shuddering, sometimes a lot of thrusting, clinching of the vaginal muscles, and sometimes vocalisation.
Mating: This is harder. Obviously, being human, it is awkward, but not impossible to mate in open water. It is easier to have the dolphin in a shallow area (like the shallows just off the beach) around 1 1/2 to 2 feet deep. This is usually comfortable enough for both the dolphin and you. Gently, you should roll the dolphin on her side, so she is lying belly-towards you. You can prop yourself up on an elbow, and lie belly to belly against her. You may want to use the other arm to gently hold her close, and place the tip of your member against her genital slit. She will, if interested, arch her body up against you, taking you inside her body. There is usually a fair bit of wriggling and shifting, usually to get comfortable, both outside and inside. Once comfortable, though, females initiate a series of muscular vaginal contractions that rub the entire length of your member. They may also thrust rhythmically against you, so enjoy the experience while you can, since you will rarely last longer that a minute or two. Just prior to her climaxing, she will up the speed of her contractions and thrusts. It is interesting to note that the times I have mated with females, thay have timed their orgasm to mine. Whether they do this consciously or not, I do not know, but it is a great feeling to have two bodies shuddering against each other at the one time.
One thing to note. Whether you masturbate or mate a fin, male or female, always spend time with them afterwards. Cuddle them, rub them, talk to them and most importantly, and show them you love them. This is essential, as it helps to strengthen the bond between you. Like a way of saying that this wasn't just a one night fling. The dolphins appreciate it, and they will want your company more the next time you visit them.
Q4) What diseases can I get from dolphins? Can I give them any?
A4) I have had no experiences with Sexually Transmitted Diseases (STD's) with dolphins, so I couldn't rightfully say. I do know, however, that you can pass the Flu between you, along with other respiratory problems. (I got a cold when a dolphin sneezed on me once. It cleared up after a week or so.) You can also pass some skin irritations on to them, if you handle them with chaffed or broken skin. Just like with a human, it is best to BE CLEAN when you handle a dolphin. If you have cuts on your hands, avoid touching them unless you wash with a Betadine surgical scrub prior to handling. This is available from most Veterinary and Surgical suppliers. If you have some disease of some sort, avoid mating, for the dolphins sake. This is a little known area, more so because Zoophilia is considered illegal in many places (which I think is a load of crud, but the law's the law....)
Q5) Is their any way I can invite a dolphin to be masturbated?
A5) Well, yes. If they are hanging around, but not looking particularly excited, but you are, you can invite them with this way...
Male and Female dolphins can be invited by rolling them on their sides, again, but instead of going straight to the genital slit, rub along their bellies, between their pectoral fins, along the navel, and every once in a while, over the genital slit. If they are responsive, they will show the signs of excitement as described earlier, and you can proceed as usual. If, however, they are not responsive, they will swim away, or turn back upright. DO NOT force the issue with a dolphin! Trying to restrain them will only break their trust in you, and could cause you serious injury. Pat them, stroke them and talk to them lovingly, but do not try anything else. It is best, anyway, to let the dolphin tell you when they are ready. It is far more pleasant, and more fulfilling anyway. And more special.
Q6) Where can I find a dolphin to mate with?
A6) Aquariums are a bad choice, for many reasons. Too public, the dolphins are not in their natural habitat, night visits are impossible, etc etc... some may have external enclosures, which may be accesable, but that is no guarantee. Best thing sometimes is to find a beach or a cove that the dolphins frequent. It takes time to develop a relationship with a dolphin to the point where they will let you mate with them (although some have been as quick as 3 days to acclimatize). Gaining their trust takes time, and you need to visit frequently. This is impossible for some people, I understand, but it is the best way. Sometimes you just need to be in the right place at the right time. I have been extremely lucky on two occasions with wild dolphins, and my current mate is a dolphin who lives in the harbour of my resident city.
Well, I hope this is of use to whoever is interested. One final note. You should love a dolphin, not because of the sexual relief they can provide, but because they are a unique animal, one of the few wild animals that seek the company of man by their own initiative. This is special. Do not abuse it.
About the Author
I first realized I was a Delphinic Zoophile when I was 12 years old, which is when I had my first sexual encounter with a dolphin. This is not that particular occasion, since my first lover was brutally killed in an act of sensless violence that I will never forgive, or forget. She continues to live in my memories, though...
I volunteer with dolphins whenever I get the opportunity. They are special to me, highly intelligent, empathic creatures that are dear to my heart, and are a healing aspect in my life. So it was that I met this particular dolphin, a female bottle nose dolphin, 7 years old, who is residing at my home cities coastal harbour/aquarium.
She is a beautiful dolphin, inquisitive and playful, and more used to human contact than her other, older pod mates. I answer any questions the general public have about dolphins, and spend most of my free time with them, studying and talking with them. I learned through continued contact that each dolphin has a very particular personality and habits, traits useful for differentiating between the fins who are sometimes hard to distinguish on visual markings alone.
In order to avoid the bustle tourists, I usually visit the dolphins at night, illegally I must add, since I am considered to be trespassing. But it is the only time I do not have to be distracted by tourists or the staff. I do not expect to have sex with the dolphins every time I visit them; I am not that sort of person. I spend time with them because they are a relaxing and stabilizing source of peace in an otherwise hectic and unbalanced lifestyle. So it came as a pleasant surprise when this 7-year-old dolphin began to engage in sex-play with me.
I was quite happily swimming around with the dolphins when she suddenly decided to grab my foot with her genital slit. Dolphins have very muscular vaginal orifices, and can use these muscles to manipulate objects and carry them. I stayed still for a while, to see if she was just playing, but she continued to masturbate against my foot, and in the light of the torch I sometimes carry, I could see that her slit had become very pink and had swelled as well. She was aroused!
So, I started to back-paddle with my hands towards a small beached area, partially submerged in the water. A couple of times she pulled me forward into the deeper water, but eventually I got my self to the shallows. I dislodged my foot (Being careful not to pull too hard), and took her gently by a pectoral fin and rubbed her belly just to aclimatize her, I guess. She immediately rolled belly up and started doing pelvic thrusts against the palm of my hand. It was unmistakebly erotic, and by now I was fully aroused.
I stripped off my shorts, and gently pulled her into the shallows until she was lying on her side, her belly facing towards me, half submerged in the water. I nestled myself belly to belly against her, and pressed my member against her genital slit. She immediately arched her body against mine, and took me inside her body, initiating a quick series of muscular contractions with her vaginal muscles. I wrapped my left arm around her body and just held her close while she manipulated me inside her body, until I climaxed barely 2 minutes later. Surprisingly, her body also shuddered against mine, and we spent the next 5 or so minutes just lying together in the shallows, holding each other, enjoying our company and revelling in the fact that we had shared something special together, something very few people can claim to have done.
153
I get sick seeing everyone trying to destroy this girls career....She is a hard working individual....She is dedicated and ethical. The point that everyone missed is that it is run as a non profit organization. I don't care about the sex....Is this how our forefathers expected tax dollars to be not payed?....A SEX CENTER
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