Friday, November 21, 2008
Sex / Media KOMO's Marlee Ginter Might Be [a Damn Fine Journalist]...
Posted by Dan Savage on Fri, Nov 21 at 4:08 PM
...and then again she might not. But, hey, anything might be happening. The Center for Sex Positive Culture might be spending your tax dollars throwing sex parties. They probably aren't but they might be and so long as "might be" is the standard KOMO and Ginter use to determine what news is fit for their 11 o'clock broadcast, we can use the same standard to determine what posts are fit for Slog. Personally? I don't think Marlee Ginter is [a damn fine journalist]. But we can't rule it out definitively. I mean, does anyone know where Marlee Ginter is right now?
But if someone out there does know where Marlee is right now, could you ask her to please read this? Because there's something I want to say to Marlee:
Welcome to Seattle.
According to your bio on KOMO's website, you arrived in Seattle in August of 2007. Before getting a job at KOMO you worked as a reporter and an anchor at television stations in Gainesville, Florida; Savannah, Georgia; Spartanburg, South Carolina; and Indianapolis, Indiana. Judging from your age and your resume, you've moved from place to place, never staying in one city for very long, before you finally wound up here in Seattle a little more than a year ago. So you're just another one of those rootless, itinerant teevee news reporters who comes and goes—and that's not your fault. That's how careers work in your business: a teevee news reporter starts out in a small market, moves on to slightly larger market, and gradually works her way up to a big market.
The downside—for you itinerant teevee news reporters, for us viewers in bigger markets—is that by the time one of you gets a job in a place like Seattle, a big liberal city, you've spent a great deal of time living and working in tiny towns, in churchy places, in markets where people don't have liberal views about sex or sexuality or much of anything else. Before KOMO offered you a job, Marlee, you spent most of your professional life in much smaller and more conservative cities—all but one of them in the South.
Now sex sells, even in smaller markets, and sweeps are sweeps. So teevee news reporters in smaller markets are expected to find and report stories about sex, stories that allow them to show steamy, suggestive video. 
But a teevee news reporter working in a small market—where all teevee news reporters learn their craft—has to be careful to pitch her sex stories so that they play to the prejudices and hypocrisies of viewers in those smaller and more politically conservative markets. Oh, they want to watch sex stories for the same reason we all do—they're titillating—but they don't want to admit that they're watching them to be titillated. So sex stories in smaller markets are presented to the viewers only after they've been carefully wrapped in condemnation and outrage: "Look at this disgusting sex club/sex shop/sex haver—isn't this sex club/sex shop/sex-haver shocking and loathsome? Isn't this an affront to our community's values? Now let's look at this shocking thing some more, shall we? My goodness, isn't it indecent!"
In a small media market, teevee news reporters frequently file distorted, unfair, sloppily reported pieces about sex stores and sex clubs and people that get caught having sex. Why waste time with, oh, accuracy and fairness and ethics when the point of the piece isn't the sex toys being sold or the guys getting it on in the rest stops or the tax-exempt status of a sex-related social club. The point is boosting the ratings with a little titillating video and then moving on to weather and the sports. And in small markets teevee news reporters can get away with this, they can shit all over sex stores and clubs and havers with impunity, they beat the fuck out of people who are doing dirty, dirty SECKS!—because in a place like Savannah, Georgia, or Indianapolis, Indiana, it's extremely unlikely that someone, anyone, is going to come to that person's or that group's defense. Because, my goodness, they were doing the SECKS! And SECKS is dirty and shocking!
Welcome to Seattle, Marlee.
Seattle isn't Georgia or South Carolina. Seattle isn't just "the mountains and the water." And it's not just Starbucks and Microsoft and the Seahawks and the rain. Seattle is also Babeland and the Lusty Lady and “Savage Love” and amateur porn festivals and sex-positive community centers and nude bicyclists and one of the nation's biggest burlesque scenes. 
When the city of Seattle passed a law crafted to put local strip clubs out of business—and throw local strippers out of work—Seattle residents voted overwhelmingly to repeal it. 
People around here fall into two categories: they're either pretty progressive about sex, a.k.a. "sex-positive," or they believe that people who aren't bothering anyone else should be left the hell alone. If someone wants to open a non-profit club that offers sex education and hosts sex parties, no one around here really cares so long as the sex club is operating legally. 
And the Center, which is operating legally, got on just fine for nine years before you got to town. If there was going to be an outcry about what goes on behind its closed doors—and about its non-profit status—there would've been one long before KOMO hired you.
You’re not in a red state anymore, Marlee. You're free to file sensationalistic stories about sex for KOMO. We certainly sensationalize sex here at the Stranger—but because we think sex is, or should be, sensational. What you can’t peddle here is sex-negative bullshit. And you can't lie about sex-related businesses or sex-related non-profits with impunity here. You can't beat up on sex clubs and sex shops the way teevee news reporters in small towns beat up on sex clubs and sex shops. And if you try that crap here, Marlee, you're going to get some blowback. Because there are too many people here who aren't embarrassed to be seen coming to the defense of sex clubs or sex shops or sex workers or sex havers. Make a note of it.
Finally, Marlee, I've heard through the media grapevine that you're upset about all this [damn-fine-journalist] stuff on Slog. So let's make a deal: KOMO has already yanked your story from its website—so why not officially retract the piece and issue an apology to the Center? On air would be great, but in writing would do. We'll probably yank our obnoxious YouTube videos, and pull down or re-title these posts, whatever you do. Because, hey, we've more than made our point. But I still think you need to do the right thing and apologize.
And again, Marlee, welcome to Seattle.
Showing 1-152 of 152
If she doesn't issue a retraction pretty damned quick, "gintering" is going to become slang for bestiality. If anyone doesn't think that can happen, I suggest they research the origin of the term "santorum."
Good point - this story was more the fault of Dan Lewis (who has been in Seattle over 20 years - longer than Dan Savage) and whatever editors KOMO uses.
"the south" doesn't include Indianapolis. It's no more nor less conservative than Seattle. Knowing both cities well, I'd say they're pretty much equals, except Indy has less vocal flaming idiots.
Buy a map, do some homework.
"the south" doesn't include Indianapolis. It's no more nor less conservative than Seattle. Knowing both cities well, I'd say they're pretty much equals, except Indy has less vocal flaming idiots.
Buy a map, do some homework.
Marlee needs to just move to Utah and stay the fuck away from Seattle. There she can do stories about 43 year old men marrying their 14 year old cousins. Or gigantic cows made out of butter; that one seems to fit her journalism skills best.
I actually refreshed because I thought my browser didn't load Slog again.
That is, I'VE READ THIS SHIT 20 TIMES ALREADY.
p.s. Dan never said anything about Indy being in the south you morons. He mentioned her working there, but when he spoke about the south, he was speaking about Georgia and South Carolina.
I agree with #4. Ginter's report was obviously BS, but the producers and others at KOMO are just as responsible for it as she is. She is just the smiling Barbie that reads the script.
She's in your head savage. Wait till you call Terry, Marlee while having some missionary hate sex cause your dinner was cold.
I love the rants Dan, but your grammar is sloppier than Marlee's reporting:
"a teevee news reporter starts out in a small market, moves on to slightly large market"
"Now let's look this shocking thing some more, shall we?"
"The point is boosting the rating with some titillating video"
"You can't beat up on our sex clubs and sex shops they way teevee news reporters"
Great rant otherwise.
@11--It seems based on #12 that perhaps you were reading the later version? I know what I read. You may apologize at any time.
Blessings.
It's really a shame you used Slog's page rank and overall google juice to tag Ms. Ginter with something as completely lame as "blows goats".
Two things:
1) The Stranger needs to run a front page story next week on how Marlee Ginter might be sucking off goats. 3-page minimum. Using the same KOMO journalistic standards (i.e., interview past friends and associates, edit it properly, etc).
2) The Stranger needs to formally invite Marlee to be a judge for next year's HUMP contest. Give her VIP treatment. This is an educational service, extended to her.
P.S. Additionally - she obviously need to get laid. Someone out there take care of that, please.
Chicago transplants aren't allowed to welcome people to Seattle.
Also, please stop all the posting on this non-controversy.
local news is targeted to suburbanites. i guaruntee you the people out in bothel ate that shit up.
Too bad for Marlee and KOMO.
"To ginter" and "To KOMO" have already made it into the lexicon of some sex-positive circles.
Definitions?
KOMO: v. 1. Using misrepresentation, distortion, and/or fabrication as an instrument to produce scandal. 2. To present a façade of self-righteous indignation.
Example: Mayor Nickels has been KOMOing Seattle's nightlife for years.
Ginter: v. 1. Any act of bestiality involving humans and goats, most often used in reference to oral sex acts involving humans and goats.
Example: Marlee has not replied to my e-mail yet. She might be busy gintering her way through a herd of goats.
(Many thanks to he who documented the usage and started writing up the definitions. He knows who he is. :D )
you've obnviously never worked in tv, nor in those cities. there has to be something real to write about instead of this b.s over and over. also, watched the piece again, the old interview wasn't cut up, just some fancy graphics in the middle, so when you make your youtube videos try to be equal and not worse.
The Stranger needs to produce a porn involving a Marlee look-a-like.
It was okay for Sarah Palin, it was okay for Joe the plumber, why is it not okay here?
This pussy "understaaaaaaanding/let's make a deeeeeeal" crap is gross.
I hate her so much. Her actions in this event have been entirely unprofessional, dirty and gross. And here you are, basically apologizing for everything and licking her crusty butthole with this retarded "deal."
What the FUCK? She took Brian Alexander's own words and slapped him in the face with them. She responds to his reactions by basically telling him to go fuck himself. She offers no apology then, and you aren't even requiring her to apologize for it now.
If she's going to play the tabula rasa card here, she needs to apologize for EVERYTHING, and she needs to back up that apology with some heavy details.
Like, say,
"I used Brian Alexander's interview for my report by cutting up his own words and positioning him towards my side."
"I was objective by making everyone feel comfortable with me. I made it seem like I just wanted to be 'in the know' and report on what I found, not report about how awful these people and this place are."
"I responded to Brian Alexander's problem with my editing by telling him I did nothing wrong. I still think I did nothing wrong, because these people are sick, but if I make this apology, everything will be okay with The Stranger."
"This is what apologizing is all about. I've done something wrong, I knew I was doing something wrong, I don't think it's necessarily wrong because I truly believe what I was covering is wrong, but I'm going to say I was wrong because APOLOGIZING FIXES EEEEEEVERYTHING!!!"
"If I do anything else nasty or news worthy, please remember that I have a alcohol/rehab card to play."
AKSLKJFHSADAKJGFHB
"People around here fall into two categories: they're either pretty progressive about sex, a.k.a. "sex-positive," or they believe that people who aren't bothering anyone else should be left the hell alone."
This statement is fundamentally wrong. There are a ton of liberal politicing but morally puritanical people in Seattle. There is a very strong puritan streak running through the Seattle hoity-toity echelon, and has been ever since the Methodist Denny Party. These people are pro Teen Dance Ordinances, for regressive liquor sales policies, against sex, and against drug reform. Get off Capitol Hill. These are the ultra-liberals but morally uptight who live on Upper Queen Anne, Laruelhurst, Magnolia, Broadview, and etc. They can afford to max out donations to political campaigns and they have the ears of the mayor and city council.
Seattle politics has always been fairly left, but from its founding the schism in Seattle politics has always been the rabble versus the rich. Doc Maynard, the bar owner, versus Denny, the methodist. Salaciousness versus prohibitionist.
Ginter was aiming her story at suburban and rural viewers, but the anti-sex brigade has an audience in the city as well.
Kudos to you, Dan, for your open and honest explanation of what this is about. I would just ammend your letter ever so slightly:
In addition to group I ("Sex is cool! Let's talk about sex!") and group II ("What you do in private is nobody else's buisness."), there actually is a group III ("Sechs! Icky!") here. To be sure, there are fewer of them than in the bible belt. They are a tiny minority in Seattle proper, but there are a fair number of them in Bothell and Renton and Kent and other suburbs in your broadcast area. Given the demographics of television news, group III might will be the majority of viewers of KOMO evening news, so the tone of your story might have made good business sense.
But you see, we are engaged in a culture war against group III, and the Stranger is culture war headquarters. We are trying to erridicate them, and anyone who shows sympathy with their views counts as a collaborator against whom all attacks are justified. As you can see, we do not shirk from character defamation and extortion. And we will not rest until every last group III member has been exterminated! Sieg... Ahm.
Welcome to Seattle, Marlee.
Welcome to Seattle, Marlee.
Let me tell you how it works here. If you DARE to do a news story at the behest of your editors that Dan Savage doesn't like, he will torment you on his blog for days and days and days.
You see, Marlee, a lot of "journalists" here in Seattle are really just petty attention whores that have nothing better to do than rag on other reporters to prove their own self-worth as writers, or to make themselves seem hip and snarky to the kool kidz.
Now, truth be told, your story was bullshit, and demonstrated the journalism skills of a 10th-grade school newspaper reporter. You twisted facts, made some dubious claims, misrepresented people, and showed some steamy soft-porn to get your story on tv. How much of that was you and how much was your editors is only for you to know.
Regardless, Dan could have taken the high road, pointed out the errors of your ways, and challenged you to uphold good journalistic practices.
Instead, he used his blog to say all kinds of mean, nasty, disgusting, insulting shit about you in the never-ending search for attention and comments to his posts. Which really makes him no better than you. But, there you have it.
So, welcome to Seattle, Marlee. Don't ever piss off Dan Savage EVER, EVER AGAIN.
What's sad is that she and KOMO could just as easily have done the exact same piece, with the same videos and pictures, but made it sex positive and said something like, "look at what a progressive place this is, the rest of the country seems backwards by comparison!"
Of course, then the religious fundies would have shit on her.
OMG, this is the least interesting controversy of ALL time. Does the Stranger fund the Sex Center or something??? Who the fuck cares??
Is someone going to counter with "First they come for the sex center and then the gays, and then you!"
This is so boring I have to actively campaign against you posting anymore about it rather than just ignore it. Give it a rest or I'm going to write fanmail to Marlee just to spite you.
Local news generally means gawking at some car chase on a major freeway, hearing about someone who got shot in a bad neighborhood or staring at flames from the fire du jour. So who REALLY watches local TV news other than those who need to get a life? The answer may surprise you...
Jesus people -- read Dan's post one more time, it's pretty clear why he's doing this.
What makes this story particularly infuriating for Dan is that this is in Seattle, and if he feels like he has the platform to take her down, then he should try. Symbolically, I think this is a more important controversy than people think. I think it's crystal clear that this Marlee fiasco is simply the straw that broke the camel's (goat's) back. It comes after a long run of persecutory local news coverage from all over the country, normally targeting non-mainstream members of the community (stories that Dan has also covered), and it shouldn't be happening here.
Marlee Ginter should be publicly embarrassed for that atrocious story, and should lose her job. And yes, 'gintering' should become a colloquialism for some bestiality act.
Keep up the pressure! KOMO stepped outside the realm of journalism into salacious, cynical bullying with this "story." Marlee Ginter seems smart enough to know right from wrong. Dan Lewis certainly has enough experience to know better. But they created and aired a story packed with lies and prurient soft-core sanitized under a veil of moral judgment. What they did is wrong and they obviously want to hide the story now. Don't let them.
I think it's funny as fuck. KOMO rolls snake eyes and their bet pays off a crisp slapping around.
I'm a liberal southerner, and I feel slighted - albeit inadvertently...which makes me miss the bigger point of this blog entry.
When I Googled "Marlee Ginter" I kind of felt sorry for her. I would say she is ruined, but since none of this will be on TV, she'll be OK. (I don't feel sorry for her, BTW).
This just get's better and better.
I'm glad you offered an olive branch to her, though. Though her segment was a truly aweful bit of sex-negativs BS, she's probably suffered enough for it.
@7:
Hahahahahahahaha....
Hahhahahahahahahaha....
I'm from Indiana too. Have you EVER read the Indianapolis Star? Have you EVER watched rtv-6 (known as WRTV if you want to be picky, but nobody local calls it that...)?
I'll grant that, geographically, Indianapolis is north of the Mason-Dixon line, but frankly, any part of the state south of Crown Point and due east and south of South Bend is far more southern in its mentality and culture than probably any other state in the Midwest. (South by southeast Ohio is more Appalacian than Southern.)
Yes, I'm sure you'll bring up Hamilton Township and Bloomington and maybe West Lafayette and maybe even Speedway. You'll even, maybe, bring up some examples of the surprising influence the African-American community has had in the city over the years. But trust me, Indy, and much of Indiana, is a Midwestern place with a big dollop of Southern in it.
And Indy is NOT like Seattle. (Not that even Seattle, as is, is like Seattle as idealized.)
Leave Marlee Ginter ALONE boo-hoo. All she wants to do is suck off goats (maybe). She lost her purse in a sex club, her camera gal got hit on at the sex club, and all you people want is MORE MORE MORE (goat sucking). LEAVE MARLEE GINTER ALONE (boo-hoo boo-hoo).
What Ginter did is horrendous journalism and a disservice to the community. It also serves to take away even more credibility from the local media, which is something that shouldn't happen. It's broadcast news shit like this that ruins it for the rest of the hard-working journalists who are losing jobs left and right while the Ginters of the world can continue to (maybe) blow goats and falsely accuse people of things. They should be issuing a complete and public retraction on television and their Web site. Immediately.
I would hope that Ginter has a long, drunk, dark night of the soul and comes back next year to do a Sook-Yin Lee / "Shortbus"-type vid for HUMP!
I see the lawyers have gotten to you Dan. Already covering your ass. Setting the stage so people will think you decided to take this stuff down, instead of a judge.
What you did was malicious. That is the standard. If she made a mistake you could simply point it out. But no, you set out to do her harm. You caused harm for her and her family. You encouraged others to harm her and her family. When it became apparent that you were causing her harm you could have backed off, but you decided to push harder and harm her further. That is malice. That is the legal standard by which you are being judged. Satire and criticism are only acceptable under the law if they are free of malice. Get ready to pay her a lot of money.
Annnnd also, since you're shit was so stupid, I'm going to automatically assume you work at KOMO. Please go back to trolling at your shitty broadcast news station. kthxbai.
On a side note, Gary Indiana looks exactly like the blasted hellscape, complete with flame-belching smokestacks, at the beginning of Blade Runner.
@57--Well, it depends on what part of Indiana the guy was from. Most anything south of Interstate 70 is Inditucky. It's where census takers get mauled by packs of dogs and Santa Claus comes down the chimbley. But north of I-70 is a whole different thing outside of the pockets of people who migrated north to work at the (now dying) auto factories.
@ "common"- take away the perameters of the story, and you have a person who misquoted (by sound byte), misled (having ALL the right information, but not giving it), and is recieving a dressing down for that action. As a straight male who has sex, I'm offended. As an AMERICAN who believes in the sanctity of the free press, I'm pissed!!...A.
I am glad you are standing up to this Dan. I may be biased as a member of the Center, although I have never had sex in the place, but here is my persepctive.
I am fed up with right wing religious people trying to legislate morality. What I do that does not cause harm to others are what I consider my civil rights. This story was aired under the guise of "Problem Solvers." Who the heck contacted KOMO and said that a members only "sex club" located in an industrial area was a "problem?" The only person I can imagine is someone with a holier than thou attitude about sex. Much the same kind of people who think that people choose their sexuality and if it isn't the same as theirs then it is appropriate to legislate against it. It brings to mind the word theocracy.
I have an alternative sexuality, on the outside I may look like a frumpy 50 years old married soccer mom, inside I am kinky and have an extended family group. I appreciate voices like Dan and Alena who can take a public stand. I hope I live long enough to not feel fear or concern about being "outed." And btw, I am also hoping I can still throw a flogger :)
The story was not saying close the club. The story was simply asking should a sex club be a non profit. I think there are probably some legitimate benefits to the club such as the books and counseling. But let's not mince words here New Horizons is a sex club and they don't dare to ask for any public funding. I don't choose to go to either club, I don't want to help fund either club so therefore I shouldn't have to. At least New Horizon's doesn't ask me to. This club is ostensibly a sex therapy clinic. If this is a legitimate community clinic why did you have to change the name from the "Wet Spot" .
attack the journalism if you want, but leave the girl alone. I wonder how Dan Savage would feel if KOMO aired a story that said Dan Savage "might be a Pedophile". Knock it off, grow up and quit your ranting.
Mr Savage you are simply jealous that mainstream media is not interested in your extreme views and lack of interesting content. Shock media is passe, your numbers are dropping fast soon you will just be a lonely angry never has been.
Welcome to Seattle
Could we also just address the fact that Marlee Ginter has ALWAYS been a terrible and crass excuse for a journalist? I wasn't the least bit surprised by her antics.
It's unfortunate, because I've seen KOMO from the inside and the way they operate is pretty legitimate. Steve Pool is a nice guy. Mike Dardis is awesome, and hot, and a totally sweet person.
But as soon as a Ginter report comes on, the whole tone of the broadcast just dies. Example: one piece she did on some candle light vigil type thing jumps back to her live shot with her sticking a CANDLE right in the camera, and then having the camera man take a few steps back before she goes into her report. WHAT THE EFF? I mean..LOOK. CANDLE. It is a CANDLELIGHT VIGIL, folks. The poor camera man even had to re-focus. If I were KOMO's news director (who is a nice lady) I would've fired her just for sheer abuse of format.
And why does everyone feel the need to hate on Dan all the fucking time? You aren't perfect either, and your sense of humour is not as good. He's got a syndicated column and national recognition and you don't: get over it.
It's always nice to see Dan show his true colors. Every once in a while I'll start thinking he might be a decent guy, but then he helps me out by reminding me that he's just a whiny self-centered asshole, and we are unlucky enough to live in the same city as he does. Stop acting like a third grader.
"...they believe that people who aren't bothering anyone else should be left the hell alone." Unless you're a church who meets at Neumos and then the gloves are coming off!
@ 56 - so freakin' true! I had to make a pit stop there once, on a roadtrip to Chicago, & it was like hell, if hell was more sad than angry. It's the first time I have seen an actual tent revival on a city's main street, & all the small items in a local grocery store were locked up behind a metal grid. *shudder* I got in, bought aspirin, & fled.
Look, the reporter misrepresented someone badly AND messed with a local institution it seems that nobody has a real problem with AND twanged our country's favorite phobia..again..OMG THE SECKS. There may have been a producer above her who wrote/approved the story, but she's the public figure reading it..therefore, she takes the heat.
..& you know what to do if you can't take the heat.
I heart what you are doing, keep it up. Don't let the haters stop you from saying what needs to be said. The proof is in the pudding, or should I say santorum? Look on FL and see how many people have "into Dan Savage" or "curious about watching gintering" as fetishes. You are leading the way for us all to have our voices heard over the absurd corporate "news-fomercials."
One of my fave sayings: The moral majority is neither!
the thing is that even for native seattleite komo peeps as well as seattle long timers, it has to be an embarrassment. and a challenge. even to them, our fellow seattleites stuck at fucking komo. theres a line here that seattleites define themselves on. all the sudden seattle has to deal with newby bullshit? even newby ceo bullshit? no, i don't think so.
This isn't about criticizing a reporter. That standard has been far exceeded. This is about maliciously causing harm to someone. That is the standard. Dan caused her harm. He did it on purpose. When it was brought to his attention that he was causing her harm he maliciously continued to cause her harm.
This was about attacking her. This was about causing harm to her. This was about causing harm to her family. No mater how funny you may think it is, it is still a malicious act.
Yes she is a public figure. She is open to criticism. She is open to be the subject of satire. This was not criticism or satire. This was malicious harassment. He wanted to ruin her reputation. He wanted her to lose her job. He wanted her family to suffer. That is not criticism. That is not comedy. That is someone who is out to maliciously harm another person. Freedom of speech and the fact that she is a public figure will not protect you when your actions are malicious.
Dan acted with malice. That is what defines this subject. She did not attack him. She did not provoke him. He is the one on the crusade to harm her.
Let me say it again for those who don't understand. Dan acted with malice.
I wish I was her lawyer. I would like a chunk of that settlement.
@ 69, are you, in fact, a lawyer? Please answer truthfully.
@ everyone else talking about Indiana - I once stopped at a truck stop on I - 64 (which is way south Indiana) that had a giant, hideous Santa Claus statue with a bullet hole in the beard, and which sold these little novelty cactus plants. The cacti were the exact shape and length of a typical pinky finger, and the little pot was of an old duffer holding his pants open.
On the way out, we saw an old 70s car pull out. They had covered the brakelights with stencils which read EAT SHIT.
Let me get this straight. Some hack, out-of-town journalist is bitching about how a hack, out-of-town TV reporter has moved to Seattle?
Um, if you don't like what Dan has to say, why are you here?
If you don't want to fund a sex club, or a sex-positive community center, don't become a member. No one is stealing your money to fund the CSPC.
I, for one, think a poor reporter should be pointed out so that her/his credibility can be considered by the viewer before fully accepting the "news". Not just Ginter here, but any poor reporter. And given the type of reporting she did, and the specific community she attacked, I think Dan's method of dealing with Ginter is both hilarious and effective. And yet, his peace offering is appropriate and I think Ms. Ginter would be wise to accept it.
As a side note, as a member of the CSPC (and while I attend events regularly I have never had sex there, btw) I'm proud of my community for standing up and refusing to be ashamed of who we are and what we do.
Ms. Ginter chose the wrong group to pick on.
<3 you, Dan!
@65 said:
"...they believe that people who aren't bothering anyone else should be left the hell alone." Unless you're a church who meets at Neumos and then the gloves are coming off!
Any church, such as Antioch currently holding services Sundays at Neumos on Capital Hill, which arbitrarily condemns homosexuality, is persecuting gays and lesbians. There isn't two ways about it unfortunately.
@69
Ginter claims to be a journalist. She broke all the rules of journalism and deserves to be called out by her contemporaries.
True, the Stranger staff stretches the rules of journalism on a regular basis, but that doesn't mean the Stranger can't point to corrupt b.s. sensationalism that stains the ideals of the craft of journalism.
Ginter is getting what she deserves, and KOMO should pay attention to what they are hearing from us.
Also @69, you need to go back and re-learn what satire is all about. Malice is the motive, malice is the art. If you don't get that, don't ever write again... I'm serious about that.
To beat the dead horse/goat on the Indiana subject, do some reading about Indiana's difficutlies with the Civil War, as well as the popuarity of the KKK in that state, lynching statistics, etc.
(One note: My mother's family is from South Bend and they are wonderful, non-racist, hard-working, beautiful people. So I know what the good parts of Indiana are all about.)
All you people complaining about Dan being an out-of-towner: You realize that that's a provincial, small-town attitude, don't you? The sort of thing you better give up if you really want Seattle to join the big leagues, right? How long does he have to live there before he can be accepted as a legit resident?
Putzes.
Well, I want to get my two cents worth in. Adult consentual sex should be protected from jealous, blue nosed, self righteous blowhards. KOMO should stop sniffing around other people's secks organs.
I think it's very telling that Mrs. Ginter has not responded to any of this. Dan is like a 3 year old throwing a tantrum. He just keeps crying and crying and crying, but can't get his way. Next he'll start stomping his feet and then holding his breath. It must be killing him that he's not getting the attention that he so desperately craves.
Mrs. Ginter is obviously a professional. I think it's admirable that she does not cower to the whims of this bully, no matter how vile his personal attacks are.
Dan's claim that he is a journalist on par with Mrs. Ginter is laughable. That's like claiming Nader is on Par with Obama because they both ran for president. Or claiming the the Aquasox could compete with the Mariners because they both play baseball. Dan is out of his league. He is simply a cyberbully who writes crass insults to try and draw a very tiny audience onto a fringe website.
Anyone can call themselves anything they want. Mrs. Ginter is proving herself to be a professional journalist. Dan has also exposed himself for who he truly is. Don't look now, but I think he's lying on the floor stomping his feet.
dan's babysitter is marlee's goat supplier!
ginter's hardly a professional, unless you consider being a talentless hack a profession.
Didn't Slog post, like a year or more ago, some TV news story about a dildo shop in some town and y'all wanted everyone to write because the reporter was ludicrous (not Ludacris). I can't find that article, but I remember the reporter looking somewhat like Ginter, and now that you've mentioned she's lived in other cities... Was it her?
Dan's hardly a professional, unless you consider being a talentless hack a profession.
Fixed it for you.
Never mind. It was Kandiss Crone. I tend to get my black southern female sensationalist TV sex news reporters confused.
@81 - No response you say? I suppose that's why KOMO took the "report" down within 12 hours of publishing it to the net?
It certainly isn't their usual when all those other "problem solver" stories are still up after months of being posted on their site.
That crap they are trying to pass off as journalism would still be up if not for Dan Savage, those writing in support of CSPC, and those making donations through KOMO's "Problem Solver Donation Page," embarrassing KOMO in the process. This one backfired on KOMO and Ginter BIG Time.
Great Job DAN! You are Our Sex-Positive HERO!
Yoo hoo, "common sense." Where are you? I asked you a question @ 70. Just to save you from scrolling back up there, I asked you if you're a lawyer? I'm going to ask another question: If yes, do you have any experience with libel litigation?
It is not uncommon for media companies to remove stories in preparation for legal action. Watch out Dan. I think your big mouth is about to catch up with you.
@77, I have no desire to see my city join the "big leagues." And I have little tolerance for Chicago carpetbaggers (or people currently living in Denver) telling me what Seattle should be.
Matt @77 asked a good question. How long DOES someone have to live in Seattle before they are no longer considered an out-of-towner? Ten years? Twenty years? Do they have to be born here? What if they were born here but one or both parents were born somewhere else? Do they have to be able to trace their ancestry to the pioneers who came out here in the 1850s? What if someone is born here, went to college somewhere else, and returned? Do they lose their status as a true Seattleite? Can they regain it if they get a tattoo of the Space Needle on their ass? And who gets to decide these things? Should every resident be subject to a citywide referendum on who really belongs here?
@52
Not all humor is satire based. Some humor uses surprise. Surprise based humor is hard to pull off on the Internet as it lacks the possibilities for inflection and timing of a live performance.
I found your post to be dry and uninteresting and I almost stopped reading it. I'm glad I didn't stop though as there was a great punch-line at the end; posted by common sense.
Now that's fucking funny, and the timing of the delivery is perfect.
Here's the thing though, even if the build up changes when you keep using the same punch-line over and over it starts to get rather droll. I think a changeup and some new material could restore your humor to its former luster.
To the one KOMO stooge posting here: Savage probably gets 1000x more threats than Ginter ever will. Sure this is an elephant crushing a gnat. But the gnat has it coming.
This story was outrageous, and the absence of a journalistic retraction is outrageous. I see corrections EVERY DAY in the Wall Street Journal or New York Times. This story was about willfully misleading the viewer for precisely the reasons Dan has listed. I COULD INVENT STORIES LIKE THIS ALL DAY but they are not journalism and how are they SOLVING PROBLEMS?
Ignoring the fact Lewis and Ginter are tools is like ignoring the fact G.W. Bush is one, too. Screw your cynicism! Let's clean house of these hacks.
@common sense, you're fucking delusional, and I say that with malice aforethought.
Marlee Ginter, and by her representation of them, KOMO, was attacking and slandering a perfectly harmless and socially beneficial organization and all of the 10,000* past and present members of that organization in her report.
Dan is simply responding in kind, and doing a hell of a great job of it, in my opinion. There won't be any lawsuit, there won't be any settlement, and you clearly don't have any grasp of the law. KOMO embarrassed themselves, Dan and lots of other folks are just taking the opportunity to exercise their right of free speech and vigorously point this out. Even if KOMO or Ginter *were* silly or stupid enough to file a lawsuit (because in this country anyone can sue anyone for anything. Whether or not they stand a snowball's chance in hell of winning is another matter), it would simply serve the purpose of dragging the embarrassment and public mockery out further.
And in case you haven't noticed, KOMO has done everything that was in their power to make the story disappear. I'm grateful for public spirited folks like Dan Savage who refuse to let them.
You need to do something about that cranial-rectal inversion you're suffering from.
(*yes, that's accurate, and it's probably more than that by now)
Comments (152) RSS