Wednesday, November 19, 2008
Homo / 2008 Black and Gay
Posted by Jen Graves on Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 5:45 PM
Chad Goller-Sojourner says Prop 8 organizers failed, at a basic level, to understand or consider black politics. It's more complicated than black homophobia, he writes:
Had they found an interracial gay or lesbian couple (of which there are many) to serve as their spokespeople, they may have had better luck. Or at the very least, the black member of such a couple might have suggested they run with the Rosa Parks (back of the bus) or Brown v. Board of Education (separate is not equal) comparisons. Because, at the end of the day, anyone who has ever spent any time in the black town square, (aka barbershops and beauty salons), knows that the responses and opinions to a comment like, "Did you know so-and-so is gay?" pales in comparison to a comment like, "I heard so and so is messing with a white girl."
His full essay, new on Seattlest, is here.
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3
Don't worry, there weren't any black people in the audience to hear anything a black person would have said on stage.
4
I agree with w7ngman. I did not get that at all. So, I read the whole article...
I understand the point about black gays/lesbians still being more a part of the "black community" than the "gay community". I definitely appreciated that perspective, since it does run in the face of "what i think I know" about homophobia in the black community (as he puts it)
But, you know what struck me?
Who is this "they"? I mean really. Was there someone actually making a decision to "send white gays" to the black community instead of blacks? If you are a black gay person, and you're thinking, well, why are all those white people trying to talk to black people about gay marriage... maybe you should be the one trying to talk to black people about gay marriage.
That article was the equivalent of "ur doin it wrong", when it's totally within the power of black gays/lesbians to do exactly what he is saying.
Maybe more involvement of black gays/lesbians in the fight for gay marriage is what he's arguing for. But, he's positioning it as this argument of, "gee, those white people fighting for gay marriage really fucked up", as opposed to "hey, let's us black gays organize and reach out to the larger black community".
I understand the point about black gays/lesbians still being more a part of the "black community" than the "gay community". I definitely appreciated that perspective, since it does run in the face of "what i think I know" about homophobia in the black community (as he puts it)
But, you know what struck me?
It’s just a wonder who thought it best to send white gays to make the argument to the black community? [.....] Had they found an interracial gay or lesbian couple...
Who is this "they"? I mean really. Was there someone actually making a decision to "send white gays" to the black community instead of blacks? If you are a black gay person, and you're thinking, well, why are all those white people trying to talk to black people about gay marriage... maybe you should be the one trying to talk to black people about gay marriage.
That article was the equivalent of "ur doin it wrong", when it's totally within the power of black gays/lesbians to do exactly what he is saying.
Maybe more involvement of black gays/lesbians in the fight for gay marriage is what he's arguing for. But, he's positioning it as this argument of, "gee, those white people fighting for gay marriage really fucked up", as opposed to "hey, let's us black gays organize and reach out to the larger black community".
5
I think this is the most interesting thing I've seen written about this. Not because it's written by a black person or "only black people can talk to other black people" but because it actually dives in and makes some interesting (though still generalizing points.)
The idea that inter-racial marriage is this incredibly obvious example to white folks say but less powerful to black folks it the oldest saw about diversity in the world: you don't know what you don't know. I, myself, have been wondering about this a bit myself lately. To just harp on inter-racial marriage is slightly offkey. It makes it sound like the most important thing about the civil rights movement was to legitimatize being able to marry out of blackness.
Now, GOD KNOWS DO NOT GET ME WRONG, I am half-black half-white. I have little sympathy for problems with this among blacks or whites. And besides talk of strategy doesn't change the fact that wrong is wrong and right is right. You can talk about how to "market" gay marriage without ignoring the fact that you "shouldn't have to".
In summary: I mainly like this article because it's the first one I've read about the whole "70%" thing that actually made me think.
The idea that inter-racial marriage is this incredibly obvious example to white folks say but less powerful to black folks it the oldest saw about diversity in the world: you don't know what you don't know. I, myself, have been wondering about this a bit myself lately. To just harp on inter-racial marriage is slightly offkey. It makes it sound like the most important thing about the civil rights movement was to legitimatize being able to marry out of blackness.
Now, GOD KNOWS DO NOT GET ME WRONG, I am half-black half-white. I have little sympathy for problems with this among blacks or whites. And besides talk of strategy doesn't change the fact that wrong is wrong and right is right. You can talk about how to "market" gay marriage without ignoring the fact that you "shouldn't have to".
In summary: I mainly like this article because it's the first one I've read about the whole "70%" thing that actually made me think.
6
Here we go again with blaming the victim. Those Gay folk should have yelled louder when the attacker came at them, they should have fought harder when the attacker came at them, they should have dressed more modestly so as not to excite the attacker. Shame on those that blame the victim.
7
Actually, the key was the age of the voter, not the race of the voter. The older the voter, regardless of race, the more likely the voter would vote yes. Check out fivethirtyeight.com on the issue. Nate Silver is god.
8
Fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinally. It took two weeks, but ya finally posted something said by a real-live black queer about the Prop 8 Mess and homophobia in the black community. Two cheers, Stranger.
9
I love that article. All this time whites have been trying to convince other whites that blacks don't have access to the same level of opportunities or quality of life as them. So it's interesting insight to hear that the real issue is simply that blacks really don't pay attention to anything that isn't packaged for the black community. A minority is a minority is a minority.
10
I just love the delicious irony in all of this.
A group of people made famous all thoughout the world for their rallies and marches for their civil rights have casted in huge numbers their votes to deprive another group of their rights.
I mean when you have low lifes like Limbaugh and Laura Ingraham praising blacks for voting for prop 8 then you really need to start to question why in Hades name has the gay leadership been so into making it seem that the African American community at large is a friend of ours? When it is clear they don't even consider our unions as equal as theirs.
A group of people made famous all thoughout the world for their rallies and marches for their civil rights have casted in huge numbers their votes to deprive another group of their rights.
I mean when you have low lifes like Limbaugh and Laura Ingraham praising blacks for voting for prop 8 then you really need to start to question why in Hades name has the gay leadership been so into making it seem that the African American community at large is a friend of ours? When it is clear they don't even consider our unions as equal as theirs.
12
@4. Yup, just when, exactly, are black lesbian women and gay men going to speak up, speak out, organize within their community? White gays, obviously at the point, just do not get it. And black people, from what I've just read, really don't want to hear anything from us anyway.
@8. And two weeks later--that is, after the vote--all we hear from black gay men and lesbian women is that white gays don't get it. Where were black gays before the vote? Why so silent, in terms of both the 'leadership' of organizations and in black communities?
@8. And two weeks later--that is, after the vote--all we hear from black gay men and lesbian women is that white gays don't get it. Where were black gays before the vote? Why so silent, in terms of both the 'leadership' of organizations and in black communities?
14
@12. Not only all we are hearing from most black lgbts is that white gays don't get it, but if the percentage of support prop 8 got from the black community is even discussed they shut you down by saying that the gay community is just being racist. Like 6- Sargon Bighorn said, they just love to play the blame the victim game. Do yourself a favor and read out black lesbian writer Jasmyne Cannick's warped op-ed in the Los Angles Times about Prop 8 if you really want an answer, at least from a black lesbian perspective to your last question, though her reasoning might leave you more confused and with more questions unanswered.
15
Were there no commercials or outreach which showed black or mixed-race gay and lesbian couples or representatives of communities of color? Actually, yes. Here are 3 I found in just a couple of minutes.
Mothers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PSBiaSx3…
Mixed race women:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dP6bGVD1R…
Samuel L. Jackson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYWqHqDz5…
Of course, these didn't get seen as much because it costs money to air a commercial and the Yes campaign had more than the No, but obviously outreach was attempted.
Mothers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PSBiaSx3…
Mixed race women:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dP6bGVD1R…
Samuel L. Jackson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYWqHqDz5…
Of course, these didn't get seen as much because it costs money to air a commercial and the Yes campaign had more than the No, but obviously outreach was attempted.
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