Thursday, November 13, 2008
Homo / At Large The Streets of New York
Posted by Dan Savage on Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 8:52 AM
Between 10,000 and 15,000 people took to the streets of New York last night to protest Prop 8. The demonstration started at the Mormon Temple in Midtown and then we marched down to Columbus Circle... where we all got a bad case of "what now?," post-protest blue balls. "We're here, we're queer, we're... done now, right? Can we go?" I'm not shitting on the event—it was great, it was fabulous, the energy was amazing, and shutting down Broadway with thousands of angry homos—and lots of angry heteros—was moving and cathartic. But as with all demonstrations, particularly demos with marches, you march and chant your way from Point A to Point B, and then you stand around Point B for a while, unsure of what to do with yourself, or when to disperse. There's no payoff, no climax, nothing to compare to the flooding into the streets at the start of the march. You don't want to stand there all night, but you don't want to drift away too soon.
CNN studios are in Columbus Circle—and so is one of those ghastly Trump Towers that litter Manhattan. We joked about dragging Larry King and Donald Trump out into the street and beating them to death for the damage they've done to the institution of marriage—how many times have those two been wheeled down the aisle?—but we went out to dinner instead.
Unfortunately I didn't get a picture of my favorite protest sign—"Jesus Had Two Daddies"—but more of my pictures of the best signs are after the jump.
More pictures and video at JoeMyGod.
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2
Hey Dan Savage, Last night was a great night in NY. Here is my all too earnest comment on the less than earnest Slog: Thanks so much for all the work you have done on behalf of the struggle for gay and lesbian rights. I saw your interviews on The Colbert Report and CNN; I also read your NYT op-ed. All were excellent. I have no doubt that your mother would be proud of your willingness to stand up and defend yourself as well as others.
8
as everyone knows the best way to end a mass gathering like last nights protest is to get drunk. what organizers ought to do is make a few calls to a lot of bars around town, any town, find out which places support your cause and then direct everyone to those various establishments. this would have three great advantages,
1) it would give your protest a focused ending.
2) it would be lots of fun and keep the energy of the protest from petering out.
3) it would get every bar and restaurant owner in the city on your side very quickly.
1) it would give your protest a focused ending.
2) it would be lots of fun and keep the energy of the protest from petering out.
3) it would get every bar and restaurant owner in the city on your side very quickly.
10
My favorite sign from last night was
"We all can't marry Liza."
Then we went to Red Bamboo for dinner. excellent all around!
"We all can't marry Liza."
Then we went to Red Bamboo for dinner. excellent all around!
11
Amazing to see and read about. Dan you have been knocking it out of the park~! AWESOME I was wondering Dan what you and your fellow Sloggers would say about the question below?
Important Question. What do we say to our Mormon Co-Workers?
I also posted this question on JMG blog as I value his readerships collective intelligence.
I work in an art organization here in AR and have a mormon co-worker. How to treat him in a professional environment has been bugging me since the election. I have been doing my best to be civil since I don't wish to create a hostile work place. That has been challenging. My thoughts are rolling with the myriad of ways I can speak to him. I have not spoken to him since the election. I think until I am able to be articulate and calm I need to say nothing because otherwise I would be just a big jerk and not be respected were I to yell at him. Can we discuss what to say in a one on one with mormons? Maybe in a central post? I have lost sleep with the many different dialogue/facts/statements I want to say. I want to see what other people would have to say. I very much value the collective intelligence of your blog and hope there can be some great help on this. I think all of us need to be ready to verbally respond 1 on 1.
Best,
Drew from AR
Important Question. What do we say to our Mormon Co-Workers?
I also posted this question on JMG blog as I value his readerships collective intelligence.
I work in an art organization here in AR and have a mormon co-worker. How to treat him in a professional environment has been bugging me since the election. I have been doing my best to be civil since I don't wish to create a hostile work place. That has been challenging. My thoughts are rolling with the myriad of ways I can speak to him. I have not spoken to him since the election. I think until I am able to be articulate and calm I need to say nothing because otherwise I would be just a big jerk and not be respected were I to yell at him. Can we discuss what to say in a one on one with mormons? Maybe in a central post? I have lost sleep with the many different dialogue/facts/statements I want to say. I want to see what other people would have to say. I very much value the collective intelligence of your blog and hope there can be some great help on this. I think all of us need to be ready to verbally respond 1 on 1.
Best,
Drew from AR
12
@ 11, Or conversely, what do we say to our Mormon family members? My cousin married into a moron family, err Mormon, and I'm not sure how to approach them.
Chances are they have no clue what effect their 10% has had on the rights on thousands of people, but you never know.
Chances are they have no clue what effect their 10% has had on the rights on thousands of people, but you never know.
13
Yeah - attack Mormons, like every body else, and forget Catholics.
Some puny little cult instead of the real driving force against the gay community at all levels- the Catholic Church, led by an arch out spoken international homophobe who makes no bones about it - the current Pope.
Again, it feels good, and is funny - but for a tactic, nothing at all.
Utah is the only state, a small little place, where Mormons have political clout to any degree.
So off target folks, off, off, off.
Some puny little cult instead of the real driving force against the gay community at all levels- the Catholic Church, led by an arch out spoken international homophobe who makes no bones about it - the current Pope.
Again, it feels good, and is funny - but for a tactic, nothing at all.
Utah is the only state, a small little place, where Mormons have political clout to any degree.
So off target folks, off, off, off.
14
How do you end a protest like this? Slog Happy Hour for your NYC readers, duh! Next time... Like Saturday?
15
I agree - last night was my first protest, and it was all so anti-climactic at the end.
And the best best best part of last night was the signs. Gays are great at fighting hate with snark!
And the best best best part of last night was the signs. Gays are great at fighting hate with snark!
16
@13
Ed, the LDS are not the little pests that you imagine. You might not have noticed, but they've come a long way since the 19th century.
They are a powerful political force, and their treasury is extensive.
The LDS can easily match and exceed the multi-billion dollar "nonprofit" insurance money that the Knights of Columbus have long leveraged to underwrite their political agendas
As the primary underwriters of Yes on Prop 8, the LDS are receiving a just response to their choice once again to confuse the role of prophet with politician.
If you leave the church and enter the public square, especially to destroy the marriages and families of other citizens, you damn well better expect a response.
Ed, the LDS are not the little pests that you imagine. You might not have noticed, but they've come a long way since the 19th century.
They are a powerful political force, and their treasury is extensive.
The LDS can easily match and exceed the multi-billion dollar "nonprofit" insurance money that the Knights of Columbus have long leveraged to underwrite their political agendas
As the primary underwriters of Yes on Prop 8, the LDS are receiving a just response to their choice once again to confuse the role of prophet with politician.
If you leave the church and enter the public square, especially to destroy the marriages and families of other citizens, you damn well better expect a response.
17
@13
Yes, people have been overlooking the Catholic church and their usual hate. But that's just it... opposing the catholic church is sorta like beating a dead horse, I mean, those guys are wrong on EVERYTHING and have been for what, 1800 years?. Their opposition to gay marriage is completely predictable and expected and boring. I don't think they're EVER gonna get it.
Mormons, on the other hand, are new meat. They haven't been spanked yet, and maybe they need some good slapping around. Maybe the world needs to see that they are a threat to civil rights and not just another tiny cult?
Yes, people have been overlooking the Catholic church and their usual hate. But that's just it... opposing the catholic church is sorta like beating a dead horse, I mean, those guys are wrong on EVERYTHING and have been for what, 1800 years?. Their opposition to gay marriage is completely predictable and expected and boring. I don't think they're EVER gonna get it.
Mormons, on the other hand, are new meat. They haven't been spanked yet, and maybe they need some good slapping around. Maybe the world needs to see that they are a threat to civil rights and not just another tiny cult?
18
The mormons singled out this issue -- singled out my family -- as the one issue that they would put the weight of the church behind this election season. I don't know if it actually is effective, but is completely justified in my mind, feels good, and helps rally the masses. I just hope that this targeted anger towards one cockamamie (!) religion can grow to targeted passion for a positive change here and across the country.
19
I'd like to see the Mormon church pay taxes on their temple in Manhattan! Or better yet, sell it and develop condos with ground floor retail space.
Thanks for the pictures and commentary Dan!
Thanks for the pictures and commentary Dan!
20
Oh, come on. What do you do with all the pent-up energy that didn't lead to a climax? Do I have to draw you a diagram?
21
Just an FYI to make me eel better - the "Ed" in comment #13 is not the same Ed as me. I'm the Ed from Nebraska who posts fairly regularly.
Then again, I really see no reason not to target both the Mormon and Catholic churches, but that's just me.
Then again, I really see no reason not to target both the Mormon and Catholic churches, but that's just me.
22
In LA on Saturday, the pent-up energy led to several offshoot protest/marches, including one in the middle of the Hollywood & Highland intersection that eventually moved down the Sunset Strip. While the original march had more people (about 12,000), the smaller offshoots were in more busy/populated areas and more effective in getting the message out, IMO.
23
The huge White Roman Catholic Right Wing is chortling in its glee. What better fun than to pit the gays (with their filthy sexual practices) against the Mormons (with their polygamous sexual practices) and the blacks (with their profligate sexual practices). Siccing on minority on another is an excellent diversion.
We proud queers must not allow the followers of pederast priests to escape our scorn.
(Now, on to coming up with a placard slogan referencing the Knights of Columbus...)
We proud queers must not allow the followers of pederast priests to escape our scorn.
(Now, on to coming up with a placard slogan referencing the Knights of Columbus...)
24
I think if I had seen you at the protest I would have peed my pants.
so maybe its a good thing I didn't.
rock on dan!
so maybe its a good thing I didn't.
rock on dan!
26
talk to your mormon co-workers. they may agree with you. not all church members are lemming-like supporters of Yes on 8. Most understand the complexity and subtlety here, and if s/he's an intelligent person, s/he probably has an opinion on the topic that you can discuss. if s/he's in NYC, though, you may be disappointed, I know most of my LDS friends here are very moderate politically, and prop 8 has been hard for the mand their families as well.
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