Thursday, November 13, 2008
2008 Dan Savage vs. Tony Perkins
Posted by Eli Sanders on Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 9:30 AM
Via Sullivan, tape of last night's classic, gratifying take-down:
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3
Thank you Dan for staying on point and having knowledge to back up your argument. That was great to watch.
12
"Yes huh! There have been! I swear! They're all vandals!"
"No. No. It's a majority of young people!"
La la la (plugs his ears) la la la!
"No. No. It's a majority of young people!"
La la la (plugs his ears) la la la!
13
+1 on the flag pin idea. If you're going to make use of their "interrupt and take charge" talking tactic (and I'm not saying that's a bad idea), go all the way. You're an American, you love your country, wear the pin on the show. The long fight towards acceptance and full recognition is aided immensely by queers who look like "them".
14
Dan, I really couldn’t ask for a better representative of the LGBT community to expatiate the intricacies of this issue. Way to deliver and do so with a great sense of bravado & humility. ESPECIALLY in the final few minutes when this supposed “Man of God” goes after you & your partner’s son. You SEE it in his eyes, this fucker read his talking points about you before hand, and thought that the mommy & daddy line of reasoning would be a coup de grace for his argument that’d reduce you to the “angry fag” that he thinks you are. Way to TRUMP him.
Wow…Thank you for making up morning
Wow…Thank you for making up morning
19
If you watch Dan's throat, you can see his breathing visibly quicken when Perkins says "The reality is that kids need a mom and a dad." Major kudos, Dan, for keeping it together and not kneejerking with either some horrific ECDAMAAF-tag story or, conversely, "Do you want to tell my son that?," which might have been my response in your shoes.
23
Thank you for speaking out about Tony Perkin's ignorance of the Gospel's call to protect the marginalized first. Creates hope that people will actually read it.
24
"You stripped me of my rights, and I interrupt you. Who's really suffering?"
YEAH, DAN! GO GET 'EM!
YEAH, DAN! GO GET 'EM!
25
I hope Tony Perkins doesn't pray to Jesus with that mouth... beautiful! The way you handled yourself and your refusal to back down speaks to exactly what is happening all over the country. The time is now!
30
I have to say Dan, you've become a master of fighting bigotry and idiocy at the same time. But, can you walk and chew gum too simultaneously as well?
31
Dan, you are a champion. My new hero. Thank you.
Did Anderson Cooper put Tony Perkins on the satellite feed so that you guys and the production staff wouldn't have to spend the debate choking on the wretched stench of his pure nasty evil?
Did Anderson Cooper put Tony Perkins on the satellite feed so that you guys and the production staff wouldn't have to spend the debate choking on the wretched stench of his pure nasty evil?
32
Dan, you make us proud to be Americans! you were so good at staying on point and not being distracted, AND you got the last word in! now where should we send the flag pin to??
ps you were great on Colbert, too, your combo of intelligence and humor is paying off.
ps you were great on Colbert, too, your combo of intelligence and humor is paying off.
33
Normally I find it tedious to watch a debate where one participant is constantly interrupting the other, but in this case, it was tremendously invigorating. Dan, that was awesome. Way to lay into that lying bag of dirt.
My whole family hopes to see EVERYONE at the protest this Saturday.
My whole family hopes to see EVERYONE at the protest this Saturday.
36
Daniel,
at least tell us about your interactions with Anderson... Handshake? cheek kiss? special extended eye contact and lingering hug? Jebus man, we need details or we will start to make up our own...
at least tell us about your interactions with Anderson... Handshake? cheek kiss? special extended eye contact and lingering hug? Jebus man, we need details or we will start to make up our own...
38
Savage represent! I've always admired the way you can say such smart things off the cuff. So sweet to hear someone say what we all are thinking. "I hope you don't pray to God with that mouth" -- YES.
40
you are amazing. you are one of the movement's best assets. thank you for helping history move forward.
44
I get angrier and angrier listening to his lies. I often wish we could just tell each other the truth, but he can't. The Faux-Religous bother me.
45
I thought Dan did great, with only one small caveat. Each time Perkins said "The courts are overturning the will of the majority" Dan replied with, "That's what they are there to do". I know that's not exactly what Dan meant, but it might give people the wrong impression. The courts are not there expressly to overturn the will of the majority, but the courts are not there to consider the will of the majority either. In this case, as a separate, co-equal branch of the government, the CA Supreme Court is simply interpreting whether the ban on gay marriage is constitutional. Doesn't matter if 99% of people favor or oppose the ban.
The fundamental point to make is that Perkins is distorting the purpose of the courts by trying to apply terms like "will" and "majority" - when that doesn't matter.
The fundamental point to make is that Perkins is distorting the purpose of the courts by trying to apply terms like "will" and "majority" - when that doesn't matter.
48
Dan, I can't take you seriously as you did not wear an American flag pin. Are you some sort of terrorist?
49
I was screaming at my computer every time Perkins told a lie. Why is he allowed on TV? Everything he says is a verifiable lie.
50
savage...that just ruled. great job. once again, "you stripped me of my rights, and i interrupt you. who's really suffering?" is the shit. great framing of issue as it reminds us this is a civil rights issue peeps!
any chat with a. cooper about any of this prop. 8/marriage ish?
any chat with a. cooper about any of this prop. 8/marriage ish?
51
Wonderful. I was wearing headphones and got asked why I was applauding when Dan came out with "You strip me of my rights, and I interrupt you. Who's really suffering here?".
I really envy people like Dan whose brains and mouths are so well connected. Perkins was lying so outrageously that most of the people I know would have had serious trouble saying *anything* in response, let alone carrying themselves with the eloquence Dan managed.
I really envy people like Dan whose brains and mouths are so well connected. Perkins was lying so outrageously that most of the people I know would have had serious trouble saying *anything* in response, let alone carrying themselves with the eloquence Dan managed.
53
I'm sure this has been posted before, but here's another contretemps between Colbert and Perkins:
http://www.gaytvblog.com/2008/05/colbert…
Side note: wonder how often people confuse this one-trick-pony Tony Perkins with the gay-as-pink-ink actor Tony Perkins (RIP)?
http://www.gaytvblog.com/2008/05/colbert…
Side note: wonder how often people confuse this one-trick-pony Tony Perkins with the gay-as-pink-ink actor Tony Perkins (RIP)?
54
Way to go, Dan! Perfectly articulated, and emotionally cool in the face of such bigotry, lies and injustice.
55
My god, Tony Perkins is a fucking fuck fuck fuck. I despise that man. UGH. Dan, I have so much respect for your ability to stay civil and NOT lunge across the table and rip his lie-spewing, bigoted, antiquated throat out.
57
That was fantastic. I did wonder if you were going to reach through the screen and punch Perkins in the throat when he made the comment about kids needing a Mom and a Dad. (It would have been my first response)
Fight the good fight!
Fight the good fight!
58
You, sir, are a TOTAL STUD for the way you wiped the floor with the winner of the Richie Cunningham look-alike contest last night. I'm proud to share a sexual orientation with you. You are a warrior on the front lines of the culture war, on the side of right and justice, and with warriors like yourself, I KNOW our side will win. God bless you.
I've been reading Savage Love since '95, and have thoroughly enjoyed your sage but light-hearted advice all the way through to the present. And now, thanks to SLOG, I've been able to follow the sometimes interesting, sometimes pain-in-the-ass, and, yes, sometimes boring parts of your life as if I were a friend. And now, to see you standing brave and tall against the enemies of freedom last night, well, I almost wept.
You are now one of my personal heroes, right up there with the Mercury astronauts.
I've been reading Savage Love since '95, and have thoroughly enjoyed your sage but light-hearted advice all the way through to the present. And now, thanks to SLOG, I've been able to follow the sometimes interesting, sometimes pain-in-the-ass, and, yes, sometimes boring parts of your life as if I were a friend. And now, to see you standing brave and tall against the enemies of freedom last night, well, I almost wept.
You are now one of my personal heroes, right up there with the Mercury astronauts.
59
woohoo!!!! Loved it. I wish someone would wipe the smile off that moron's face. If they get the adoption laws passed, they'll go after ANYONE who isn't defined as a mom and dad. That means, no 2 hetero women, no 2 hetero men, no single women, no single men can adopt children. Kids need a HOME, dumbass. What part of "welfare of the child" do you not understand???
That Mormon prick IS on the wrong side of history.
That Mormon prick IS on the wrong side of history.
60
Oh, and one more thing:
Terry needs to bring you to an especially mind-blowing orgasm when you get home. You deserve it.
Terry needs to bring you to an especially mind-blowing orgasm when you get home. You deserve it.
64
Both the "...who's really suffering" and "...pray to Jesus.." were awesome. The whole thing was great. WTG!
67
This was so fucking gratifying to see. I read Savage Love and listen to your podcast but hadn't seen you in action like this before. Oh- and congrats on the black men holding you down on colbert. I'm straight, but that still sounds kinda sexy.
68
This was my favorite part... I was sad it was hard to hear in the crosstalk:
SAVAGE: So Loving v. Virginia when the courts declared interracial marriage to be a constitutional right in the teeth of popular support which was against interracial marriage at the time.
(CROSSTALK)
PERKINS: Dan, you know that is a red herring. That is absolutely a red herring.
SAVAGE: It is not a red herring. You were talking about the function of the courts.
(CROSSTALK)
SAVAGE: So Loving v. Virginia when the courts declared interracial marriage to be a constitutional right in the teeth of popular support which was against interracial marriage at the time.
(CROSSTALK)
PERKINS: Dan, you know that is a red herring. That is absolutely a red herring.
SAVAGE: It is not a red herring. You were talking about the function of the courts.
(CROSSTALK)
69
My boyfriend thanks God that you're gay, otherwise he'd have a lot to worry about...
You are wonderful. What a legacy for your kid to be proud of.
You are wonderful. What a legacy for your kid to be proud of.
70
From Dan's performance on AC360, I am now forced to be a consistent reader of Savage Love, instead of a once-and-a-while reader, to have as much access to that man's brain as much as possible.
There's nothing like sticking a religious bigot's own religious doctrine down his throat.
There's nothing like sticking a religious bigot's own religious doctrine down his throat.
73
dan, you need to remember your audience. you came across and looked very defensive and nervous. constantly speaking and interrupting is never appealing. on the national circuit, you're speaking to people who voted for prop 8, not the people who agree with you. the people who agree will eat up anything you say, not so for the other group.
good effort though.
good effort though.
74
Wow. Public debate like that is VERY difficult and you made it look easy, Dan. You were so cool and cogent under pressure. I nominate you to be the next James Bond.
75
That was AMAZING. And I don't give a damn that you were interrupting that fuckhead. I thought it worked. You were clearly the more eloquent of the two, and your barely restrained outrage spoke volumes to those of us watching. You responded exactly the way a man should respond when his family is under attack.
Well fucking done.
Well fucking done.
76
First-- agree it was amazing... yes yes yes
More important: *dan*--- You REALLY have to share with us a little about Cooper. thorw us a bone, man. Is he really into latino hotties? Or will he do attractive 44 yr old white men with an arrangement? I think if you divulged a little it would go a long way towards overturning Prop 8.
More important: *dan*--- You REALLY have to share with us a little about Cooper. thorw us a bone, man. Is he really into latino hotties? Or will he do attractive 44 yr old white men with an arrangement? I think if you divulged a little it would go a long way towards overturning Prop 8.
79
Go Dan. You had me seething with anger at that jackass and now crying with joy that you're the spokesman for the gays. Seriously, thanks.
80
Dan: I know you're passionate about this, but look, you've got to get a few of your facts straight:
1. the "Mormon church" did not bankroll this -- individual members of the church (sometimes asked by church leaders, I understand) funded this; no church funds were used, only individual private contributions. a subtle distinction perhaps, but an important one.
2. Letter were not read from the "first Prophet" from "every temple in the church." The President of the church, I presume, is who you refer to. Letters were read in churches (not temples, which are separate houses of worship) in the state of California. Not Washington. Not Oregon. Not Utah. Not Connecticut. C.a.l.i.f.o.r.n.i.a. Church members (and I know plenty of them around the country) were not asked to contribute regardless. Those in California were, yes. And even there, many Latter-day Saints (the correct term for members of the church, 'Mormons' being a nickname) objected and even contributed to No on 8 efforts (which, did -- to be fair -- raise more money in the end).
3. Incendiary commercials? No on 8's commercials were just as incendiary and mean-spirted as Yes on 8's, if not more so.
4. Your rights were not taken away. You are not a resident of California, so far as I know.
Appreciate your passion and advocacy, but I feel it's important for you to be informed when you're out there.....
1. the "Mormon church" did not bankroll this -- individual members of the church (sometimes asked by church leaders, I understand) funded this; no church funds were used, only individual private contributions. a subtle distinction perhaps, but an important one.
2. Letter were not read from the "first Prophet" from "every temple in the church." The President of the church, I presume, is who you refer to. Letters were read in churches (not temples, which are separate houses of worship) in the state of California. Not Washington. Not Oregon. Not Utah. Not Connecticut. C.a.l.i.f.o.r.n.i.a. Church members (and I know plenty of them around the country) were not asked to contribute regardless. Those in California were, yes. And even there, many Latter-day Saints (the correct term for members of the church, 'Mormons' being a nickname) objected and even contributed to No on 8 efforts (which, did -- to be fair -- raise more money in the end).
3. Incendiary commercials? No on 8's commercials were just as incendiary and mean-spirted as Yes on 8's, if not more so.
4. Your rights were not taken away. You are not a resident of California, so far as I know.
Appreciate your passion and advocacy, but I feel it's important for you to be informed when you're out there.....
81
Dan, please do not use the African American experience as your play thing. One day you put this loss on the back of Blacks and then you quote Loving v. Virginia. PLEASE. I support gay peoples' right to marry but I am saddened by you being the voice of this fight.
84
That was the most despicable behavior ever viewed on public TV, Dan. How you can you sit there and parade the idea of protecting people's rights when you can't even give someone else the right to express their views and give them a chance to speak. Way to show your kindergarten skills have failed of giving someone else the chance to speak!
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