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News & ArtsWednesday, November 12, 2008
Homo Some Bad News on the Outreach Front
Posted by Dan Savage on Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 7:11 AM
I'm just gonna link.
According to music site Gigwise, "'The Villain', which is out now, contains a wide range of homophobic lyrics. In one song, Trick Trick refers to talk show host Ellen DeGeneres and... Rosie O’Donnell as 'dyke bitches' and promises to send a 'scud missile right through their fucking cruise ship.'"
Trick Trick adds, "Faggots hate me and I don’t give a fuck. I don’t want your faggot money any goddam way."
I blame the ineffectual "No on 8" campaign.
2
Who, exactly, is "Trick Trick"? Is this post trying to make the connection between rap/hip hop and the futility of outreach with Black communities?
No, the No-on-8 campaign is not at fault for rap lyrics. The corporate sponsors are, definitely, as are the major consumers of the music, and of course the rappers themselves. I doubt that either of these first two groups are made up primarily of African Americans. There are many individuals who have been speaking out for years against and taking concrete action on the misogyny, violence, bald consumerism, rampant n-words and homophobia in a lot of rap lyrics. But as this post did not link to any of these initiatives I assume pointing others in joining in that struggle was not the point of the post.
Really this is getting more and more ridiculous. It could only become more silly with a future post somehow linking The Black 70% to OJ Simpson.
I will be continuing to search for outlets that are being more productive about next steps to overturn Prop 8 and similar measures. Apparently this space will not be one of them.
Peace~
No, the No-on-8 campaign is not at fault for rap lyrics. The corporate sponsors are, definitely, as are the major consumers of the music, and of course the rappers themselves. I doubt that either of these first two groups are made up primarily of African Americans. There are many individuals who have been speaking out for years against and taking concrete action on the misogyny, violence, bald consumerism, rampant n-words and homophobia in a lot of rap lyrics. But as this post did not link to any of these initiatives I assume pointing others in joining in that struggle was not the point of the post.
Really this is getting more and more ridiculous. It could only become more silly with a future post somehow linking The Black 70% to OJ Simpson.
I will be continuing to search for outlets that are being more productive about next steps to overturn Prop 8 and similar measures. Apparently this space will not be one of them.
Peace~
4
Listen, people, the existence of an obscure black rapper who uses homophobic lyrics is meaningful evidence that black homophobia, and not an anemic "No on 8" campaign, is responsible for Prop 8. It's not as though you could find and link to individual cases supporting whatever argument you want to make.
5
What sort of man calls himself Trick Trick and then goes out of his way to have his name published in the gay press? Girlfriend is on the down-low.
6
Yeah, you're right Savage, I would totally blame Trick Trick for the passage of 8. Political strategy, community organizing, and failure to build coalitions had nothing to do with the results of voting for a proposition. All this time, it was Trick Trick. If only we had known, things would be so different...
7
@2:
Please don' lump me in with your steriotypical majorities. I consider myself a "major consumer(s) of music..." and the only homophobic lyrics contained in my vast music collection belong to none other than Guns & Roses. Oh, and that was an X-Mas gift.
I've got plenty of Rap with nary a homophobic lyric to be found.
Thanx!
Please don' lump me in with your steriotypical majorities. I consider myself a "major consumer(s) of music..." and the only homophobic lyrics contained in my vast music collection belong to none other than Guns & Roses. Oh, and that was an X-Mas gift.
I've got plenty of Rap with nary a homophobic lyric to be found.
Thanx!
8
Sidenote:
This new previwe window don' work so well, if'n the ads block me from reading the said preview
Knaw wha' I means???????
This new previwe window don' work so well, if'n the ads block me from reading the said preview
Knaw wha' I means???????
9
No, no. I'm sure his feelings about gays comes from a deeply religious viewpoint, and therefore cannot be questioned. He seems like such a nice young man.
11
Post Obama this angry black man schtick just seems pathetic. This guy can join the Rev Wright in the dead end of alley of historically insignificant minority hate-mongering.
12
It's taken a week, but you've finally convinced me you're a racist. I never would have believed it if it had come from anybody other than you. Amazing.
13
Seriously, who's afraid of SCUD missiles? I'm not sure a cruise ship would notice being hit with one.
14
I'm not racist! I just think blacks are not living up to the responsibly each of them has to prove to me that they don't condone that rap music.
16
Says he's a protege of Eminem... sounds about right. If he's following the Eminem school of homophobia he'll whip GLAAD into a frothing rabid mess, and then just when he's notoriety is about to wane he'll do a duet with Lance Bass at the Grammys.
20
One asshole faggot racist screams the "N" word at a Prop 8 protest—and is quickly condemned by gay people, including gay people in the crowd—and it tells us everything we need to know about all gay people, and me and others who noted the disproportionate support for Prop 8 among African American voters—including African Americans who noted it—are responsible for unleashing hatred.
But this guy with his recording contract and his compulsive use of the "F" word doesn't tell us anything about homophobia in the African American community.
But this guy with his recording contract and his compulsive use of the "F" word doesn't tell us anything about homophobia in the African American community.
21
The people you need to blame for the passage of 8 are not blacks or Mormons. They're OLD PEOPLE. Nate Silver explains why the Obama turnout surge hurt 8, it didn't help it. Now you just have to wait for a bunch of old people to die.
22
well this faggot don't want no shitty no talent ignorant music anyway. Shove your attitude up your own ass --hole!
23
Oh, if we are already down to scud missiles I can see this is going to be a protracted war of attrition. He pulls a tommy gun, you pull a blunderbuss, you pull a sword he pulls a pointed stick--back and forth until you are down to grappling with bare hands and then you tumble to the ground, your eyes lock and you exchange passionate kisses.
24
So I looked at some "Trick Trick" lyrics (never heard of him before you posted about it). It's pretty much the same gangsta rap schlock that's been around for years. Every other word is nigga, hoe, bitch, gun, killa, gangsta. So he hates us faggots. Big surprise. If his lyrics are all about killing other black men and treating black women like cheap disposable whores, what makes you think he's got any love for us?
And your racism is getting a little tiresome. Whites hate blacks, blacks hate gays, gays hate blacks, blacks hate whites, it's all circular and everyone gets to share some of the blame.
And your racism is getting a little tiresome. Whites hate blacks, blacks hate gays, gays hate blacks, blacks hate whites, it's all circular and everyone gets to share some of the blame.
25
Do you guys remember Eminem's homophobic lyrics a few years back? Black people are even starting to spread homophobia to white people now! Or, I'm probably just being cynical and that was just an isolated incident.
26
When I worked at a record store, you couldn't give Trick Trick promo copies away, let alone sell one of his albums. Why would this one be any different?
27
I just can't wait for this hip-hop thing to die out. How African American music went from Coltrane, Ellington, Otis Redding, Motown, etc. to Trick Trick and Jay-Z promoting gangsterism to the youth of America and beyond is incomprehensible to me. Sorry if this makes me sound old at 29, but this angry "music" is some stupid shit and needs to die now.
28
I hear there's this white kid, Eminem, who's not too friendly on queers either.
Homophobic rap lyrics are nothing new, Dan. This is a straw-man. Racism in the Gay Community ain't new either.
Homophobia existed in the black community before Prop 8. Racism existed in the Gay Community before Prop 8. Instead of running in circles trying to prove either of these things (we get it, okay?) I'm still waiting for you to start posting CONSTRUCTIVE SUGGESTIONS on what both sides can do to address these problems and work together for common goals. Or are you just going to continue to post examples of homophobia and racism, re-proving your point over and over while people continue to get angry while they are forced to listen to the same insults--to both sides--over and over.
Do. Something. Constructive.
Homophobic rap lyrics are nothing new, Dan. This is a straw-man. Racism in the Gay Community ain't new either.
Homophobia existed in the black community before Prop 8. Racism existed in the Gay Community before Prop 8. Instead of running in circles trying to prove either of these things (we get it, okay?) I'm still waiting for you to start posting CONSTRUCTIVE SUGGESTIONS on what both sides can do to address these problems and work together for common goals. Or are you just going to continue to post examples of homophobia and racism, re-proving your point over and over while people continue to get angry while they are forced to listen to the same insults--to both sides--over and over.
Do. Something. Constructive.
29
Doesn't anyone else ever get the feeling Dan posts a lot of what he does just to mess with you guys?
30
With Obama in the White house, those Black rappers can not longer blame White folk for their ills, woes, and station in life. If THEY WANT they can be president too. Rap will now just be meaningless hate speech performed by lazy young men.
31
This is yet another person who needs to be told "Be Like Barack".
Now that President Obama is the icon of the Black Community -- we can start going around to all the wangsters, low grade rappers, ant-this and thats and say hey: Emulate Barack. Be like him. See what you can do if you are like Barack. Get away from the misogeny and homophobia. Be like Barack...take it into the community. Don't go around killing people at traffic circles, or Tuba Men. Be like Barack.
Now that President Obama is the icon of the Black Community -- we can start going around to all the wangsters, low grade rappers, ant-this and thats and say hey: Emulate Barack. Be like him. See what you can do if you are like Barack. Get away from the misogeny and homophobia. Be like Barack...take it into the community. Don't go around killing people at traffic circles, or Tuba Men. Be like Barack.
33
@27, cause black people are/were mad and smack abatement programs didn't help mellow out black musicians.
34
Agreed with 29, I have a feeling he's trolling a bit at this point.
Shame on the people writing off ALL rap music as hate speech and unitelligent. I especially like 27 whining that the state of black music is no longer up to his or her standards...give me a fucking break.
Even worse is implying that racism has magically disappeared now that Barack Obama is in the White House and the U.S. is one big multi-culti Shiny-Happy Utopia where black men face no discrimination at all.
WHite people...I swear.
Shame on the people writing off ALL rap music as hate speech and unitelligent. I especially like 27 whining that the state of black music is no longer up to his or her standards...give me a fucking break.
Even worse is implying that racism has magically disappeared now that Barack Obama is in the White House and the U.S. is one big multi-culti Shiny-Happy Utopia where black men face no discrimination at all.
WHite people...I swear.
35
#34: Well as you well know, Barack Obama was the poor son of a single mother who struggled to raise him in poverty. Therefore, all these street thugs should be able to pick themselves up and run for office just like Obama.
Right?
Right?
36
i swear dan.. it's like you just got outta bed or something. let's have tea sometime and catch you the fuck up.
37
35, right and after Martin Luther King Jr. got a holiday, blacks really never had a reason to complain ever again. This Obama thing is just icing on the cake!
Right?
Right?
39
@34: I wasn't arguing that current African American music doesn't live up to my standards, I was trying to argue that both white and black produced hip-hop music, which I didn't mean to imply is synonymous with all current African American music, is most often anti-women, anti-homosexual, and pro-violence. I would think that music glorifying this "gangster" lifestyle would not be up to the standards of any reasonable person. Being a huge fan of jazz and most African American music of this decade, this is especially sad to me.
40
This is just an isolated bigot, most rap music is not inundated with homophobic lyrics. Most black churches don't preach for racial equality and justice while at the same time preaching against homosexuality and urging their parishioners to vote against gay rights.
75 percent of blacks in California did not vote to ban gay marriage. Gays are just exerting their white privilege and scapegoating blacks because they refuse to realize how ineffective and unpopular the gay "movement" is.
75 percent of blacks in California did not vote to ban gay marriage. Gays are just exerting their white privilege and scapegoating blacks because they refuse to realize how ineffective and unpopular the gay "movement" is.
41
Push the envelope, Dan...brilliant idea. I remember my last day on gay.com. I had been a customer since the 90s, back when it used to be PlanetOut chat. Back then, they had moderators, people who were paid to sit and watch and immediately ban people for homophobic and racial slurs. The management, in a cost-saving measure I'm sure, decided to cut them.
But in any case, I was talking with some friends and some guys came in drunk from the bar, pissed off that they weren't able to get some that night. So they started talking about Blacks and Latinos using filthy language. I asked them to stop. I was immediately flamed by about ten guys with slurs disgusting racial jokes and cries of 'censorship'; they finally decided to say that I was oversensitive because black people were ugly and I wanted white cock. All the while, my friends were private messaging me, telling me to leave and not waste my breath. They logged off. I felt I had every right to be there.
No one stood up for me. There were lots of 'lol's and people chiming in, saying it was 'butch'. I was so angry I was shaking. But I guess that that was because Proposition 8 passed. Here in Minnesota. Two years ago. Fuck you, Dan.
But in any case, I was talking with some friends and some guys came in drunk from the bar, pissed off that they weren't able to get some that night. So they started talking about Blacks and Latinos using filthy language. I asked them to stop. I was immediately flamed by about ten guys with slurs disgusting racial jokes and cries of 'censorship'; they finally decided to say that I was oversensitive because black people were ugly and I wanted white cock. All the while, my friends were private messaging me, telling me to leave and not waste my breath. They logged off. I felt I had every right to be there.
No one stood up for me. There were lots of 'lol's and people chiming in, saying it was 'butch'. I was so angry I was shaking. But I guess that that was because Proposition 8 passed. Here in Minnesota. Two years ago. Fuck you, Dan.
42
Don't compare Eminem to this moron. Please.
There is a different between using the gay thing like "thats totally gay" to saying you hate gay people.
Please make a note of it. kthxbai.
Also, this dude 'trick or whatever' I have never heard of him. Sounds like a wannabe.
There is a different between using the gay thing like "thats totally gay" to saying you hate gay people.
Please make a note of it. kthxbai.
Also, this dude 'trick or whatever' I have never heard of him. Sounds like a wannabe.
44
Eminem protege eh? Remember when gay men bent over backwards (hah - hah) to insist Eminem was only homophobic "ironically". He was just so hot and sexy! couldn't condemn him!
Look at a recent photo, not an issue anymore.
Look at a recent photo, not an issue anymore.
45
Sometimes, I get the feeling Dan just likes to fuck with all of you who take him so goddamn literally all the time. Just sayin'. Maybe he's just fucking with you.
I just escaped my teenage years (which, oddly enough, I enjoyed--mostly). I listen to a lot of different music, there's homophobia in all music and blaming RnB, rap, and hip-hop isn't anything new. There are actually good, progressive artists in those fields just like any other music. It just depends on where you look--'cause admittedly, they're hard to find.
On the other side, how did they go from Coltrane, Hooker, Calloway, Franklin, Motown, and King to--to this?
I just escaped my teenage years (which, oddly enough, I enjoyed--mostly). I listen to a lot of different music, there's homophobia in all music and blaming RnB, rap, and hip-hop isn't anything new. There are actually good, progressive artists in those fields just like any other music. It just depends on where you look--'cause admittedly, they're hard to find.
On the other side, how did they go from Coltrane, Hooker, Calloway, Franklin, Motown, and King to--to this?
47
You don't have to be a genius to be a rapper anymore? I hope his white boy accountant takes him for everything he has.
48
I didn't think this post was much of a thing until I read #20. I hate it when white people designate random black people to be spokesmen of the "African American community" as much as anyone, but Dan Savage just nominated TRICK TRICK. Who the hell is Trick Trick? Apparently he worked with Eminem on something 4 years ago and put out 2 records. He's not just an entertainer, he's a nobody.
From now on John Rich speaks for white people. Oh look evidence of homophobia in the "European American Community". Why aren't you posting about it Dan? Why aren't you focusing on your own community when your own white people were responsible for anti-gay marriage propositions passing in North and South Dakota, Montana, Kentucky, and elsewhere? Oh wait now I remember it's because you're a racist dumbass. Congratulations.
From now on John Rich speaks for white people. Oh look evidence of homophobia in the "European American Community". Why aren't you posting about it Dan? Why aren't you focusing on your own community when your own white people were responsible for anti-gay marriage propositions passing in North and South Dakota, Montana, Kentucky, and elsewhere? Oh wait now I remember it's because you're a racist dumbass. Congratulations.
49
@43: I meant to say this century, or rather, last century. And you're right, I'm not familiar with most hip-hop, but I think I've heard enough to have an informed opinion, and past this, every day at my job I see how the music effects teenagers. It's very possible to over-estimate the influence that violent music has on young people, but I also think it's possible to under-estimate the influence as well.
50
Wow!
Who knew a Rap thread would really bring out the racism?
Let's see... both @39 & @45 draw a timeline of black artists to illustrate how much "black" music has degenerated.
How do you go from Jazz, Blues, R&B, PoP to Rap? They're all different genres of music. You can't draw a through line like that. The only true commenality is that they are music. There are more white artists doing these types of music than there are black. And all of these musics are promoted commercially by mostly white music executives.
Perhaps that's your answer right there...
Who knew a Rap thread would really bring out the racism?
Let's see... both @39 & @45 draw a timeline of black artists to illustrate how much "black" music has degenerated.
How do you go from Jazz, Blues, R&B, PoP to Rap? They're all different genres of music. You can't draw a through line like that. The only true commenality is that they are music. There are more white artists doing these types of music than there are black. And all of these musics are promoted commercially by mostly white music executives.
Perhaps that's your answer right there...
52
@50: Wow! who knew another homophobic black rapper talking trash about Gay people only falling short of calling out for violence against us after the instrumental 75 percent of support the Yes on Prop 8 campaign got from blacks in California will bring out a more than justified outrage on the part of Gays!
53
@6
he was (sarcastically) saying that the "No on 8" campaign failed to convert non-supporters, not that Trick Trick did the trick in passing Prop 8.
he was (sarcastically) saying that the "No on 8" campaign failed to convert non-supporters, not that Trick Trick did the trick in passing Prop 8.
54
@53
I was being sarcastic about his comment. However, at this point Savage clearly has an agenda to try and "prove" that Black people are super homophobes and trying to keep him down. I am irritated that his "evidence" is some random lyric from some random rapper (does anyone even know who this mf is??) rather than pointing to Black folks in hip hop that are gay or pro-gay (eg Mary J Blige who did a fundraiser for no on 8). Somehow, the Black folks who represent a tiny minority in California, who ended up voting (many of us can't or just didn't), and who ended up voting for 8 (because, remember, a bunch of us actually voted no!) is supposed to represent ALL BLACK PEOPLE EVERYWHERE.
It's a weak, stupid argument with flimsy evidence (Trick Trick? Really?) and Savage should be ashamed for being so fucking lazy.
I was being sarcastic about his comment. However, at this point Savage clearly has an agenda to try and "prove" that Black people are super homophobes and trying to keep him down. I am irritated that his "evidence" is some random lyric from some random rapper (does anyone even know who this mf is??) rather than pointing to Black folks in hip hop that are gay or pro-gay (eg Mary J Blige who did a fundraiser for no on 8). Somehow, the Black folks who represent a tiny minority in California, who ended up voting (many of us can't or just didn't), and who ended up voting for 8 (because, remember, a bunch of us actually voted no!) is supposed to represent ALL BLACK PEOPLE EVERYWHERE.
It's a weak, stupid argument with flimsy evidence (Trick Trick? Really?) and Savage should be ashamed for being so fucking lazy.
55
@53
I can't believe it took 53 posts for someone to figure it out. Thank you.
Judging from the rest of these comments, umbrage is the only way to fight any sort of bigotry. Take note of it, Dan. The humor, irony, and clear thought you've been showing in your posts, op-eds, and tv appearances? Ineffectual. You'll only win people over if you get angry and offended at everything.
I can't believe it took 53 posts for someone to figure it out. Thank you.
Judging from the rest of these comments, umbrage is the only way to fight any sort of bigotry. Take note of it, Dan. The humor, irony, and clear thought you've been showing in your posts, op-eds, and tv appearances? Ineffectual. You'll only win people over if you get angry and offended at everything.
56
@42 Oh that's right. Because when somebody says, "that's so gay", they're actually saying that is so cool, good, and wonderful.
57
Trick Trick? Who is Trick Trick? I know who Mary J. Blige is and you didn't post about her support of No on 8.
Rappers are way more likely to use the words bitch and ho than fag so please get in line behind the feminists.
Music was not a factor in this election. The church was. I don't know anyone who gets political advice from an album, but I do know plenty who get it from their Pastors. The church is seen as a credible source of information, music is not.
And yes, outreach is STILL necessary. I've never said that one should attempt to meet with individuals or groups who are clearly dangerous and irrational. Meet with those that are ameniable to civil discussion and go from there. Yes, black civil rights leaders did this...they spoke to the leaders of all white churches no the Klan.
Rappers are way more likely to use the words bitch and ho than fag so please get in line behind the feminists.
Music was not a factor in this election. The church was. I don't know anyone who gets political advice from an album, but I do know plenty who get it from their Pastors. The church is seen as a credible source of information, music is not.
And yes, outreach is STILL necessary. I've never said that one should attempt to meet with individuals or groups who are clearly dangerous and irrational. Meet with those that are ameniable to civil discussion and go from there. Yes, black civil rights leaders did this...they spoke to the leaders of all white churches no the Klan.
58
actually sippinalatte @55, i figured it out about 40 posts ago, but for some reason many people in this thread can't seem to relax and view this issue with a clear head.
there are some examples of narrow mindedness throughout this comment thread (the whole 'black' music thing? sheesh) but bandying about the word 'racist' doesn't do anyone any favors. everyone needs to take a step back and focus on what is really being debated here.
a) gays have been victimized, and have every right to be outraged.
b) there is, in fact, homophobia in our society, including the african american community (whatever that means).
c) pointing out facts is inherently not racist if those facts are mitigated by the proper context, ie, pointing out other facts such as the role of the mormon church, old people, religious white people, etc... i think dan has properly done so.
there are some examples of narrow mindedness throughout this comment thread (the whole 'black' music thing? sheesh) but bandying about the word 'racist' doesn't do anyone any favors. everyone needs to take a step back and focus on what is really being debated here.
a) gays have been victimized, and have every right to be outraged.
b) there is, in fact, homophobia in our society, including the african american community (whatever that means).
c) pointing out facts is inherently not racist if those facts are mitigated by the proper context, ie, pointing out other facts such as the role of the mormon church, old people, religious white people, etc... i think dan has properly done so.
59
LOL
Dan, I've agreed with damn near everything you've said about this, but fer fuck's sake, don't make blacks your new pitbulls. It's really not likely to go well for you. ;)
Dan, I've agreed with damn near everything you've said about this, but fer fuck's sake, don't make blacks your new pitbulls. It's really not likely to go well for you. ;)
60
sorry #55 but dan ending his post @ 20 with
' but this guy with his recording contract and his compulsive use of the "F" word doesn't tell us anything about homophobia in the African American community.' doesn't sound particularly humorous, ironic or clearly thought out.
and i get the offhanded sarcasm.. but really. some out of a career detroit fool named trick trick, who's a protege of of another detroit fool eminem, using homophobia to sell records after his earlier records about big booty hoes stopped selling, doesn't belong in any proximity to any discussion about prop 8
' but this guy with his recording contract and his compulsive use of the "F" word doesn't tell us anything about homophobia in the African American community.' doesn't sound particularly humorous, ironic or clearly thought out.
and i get the offhanded sarcasm.. but really. some out of a career detroit fool named trick trick, who's a protege of of another detroit fool eminem, using homophobia to sell records after his earlier records about big booty hoes stopped selling, doesn't belong in any proximity to any discussion about prop 8
61
i hear trick trick is going to do a duet with Elton John at the next Grammy Awards show. they still have grammy awards, dont' they?
63
@60
Sure tells you something about our culture, though. If a gay person made a record talking about niggers like this guy made a record talking about faggots, his record company would disown him, radio would blacklist him, etc. There's an unacceptable and completely unsurprising double-standard.
I think people should be able to make records about whatever the fuck they want, but the reaction (or lack thereof) is telling.
Sure tells you something about our culture, though. If a gay person made a record talking about niggers like this guy made a record talking about faggots, his record company would disown him, radio would blacklist him, etc. There's an unacceptable and completely unsurprising double-standard.
I think people should be able to make records about whatever the fuck they want, but the reaction (or lack thereof) is telling.
64
63:
And that record would sell millions. Do you think that the black churches think much of rappers and their lifestyle? It's the recording industry; the same multinationals that made sure those stats on the black vote were spread nationwide the day after Obama won. Follow the money.
And that record would sell millions. Do you think that the black churches think much of rappers and their lifestyle? It's the recording industry; the same multinationals that made sure those stats on the black vote were spread nationwide the day after Obama won. Follow the money.
65
@63 you don't understand much about music do you? And you also don't realize that your analogy is false, refernces to gays in music are like references to women not references to race. They make these records everyday that talk about women as bitches and hos and record companies promote it and radio plays it.
Additionally let's not lose sight of the fact that Trick Trick's target demographic is not likely to be registered voters. Church goers are likely to be registered voters... fans of Trick Trick seem less likely to be so (teen sboys do not vote!)
Additionally let's not lose sight of the fact that Trick Trick's target demographic is not likely to be registered voters. Church goers are likely to be registered voters... fans of Trick Trick seem less likely to be so (teen sboys do not vote!)
66
Rap, or hip-hop, or whatever the fuck they're calling it these days, is music by the retarded for the retarded.
After thirty years of banality, it's pretty much gotten to the lowest common denominator. I would bet you anything the rest of the lyrics of that song are basically a random listing of brand names that his idiotic listeners will only be able to acquire by shoplifting.
After thirty years of banality, it's pretty much gotten to the lowest common denominator. I would bet you anything the rest of the lyrics of that song are basically a random listing of brand names that his idiotic listeners will only be able to acquire by shoplifting.
67
"' but this guy with his recording contract and his compulsive use of the "F" word doesn't tell us anything about homophobia in the African American community.' doesn't sound particularly humorous, ironic or clearly thought out."
All Dan is arguing for is fair play in this message. Maybe you've read something different into it, but like he says, if one gay racist is endemic of something wrong in the black community, then so is this guy. It's an either/or proposition.
I like Eminem because he's a very talented and challenging artists. No one said good music had to be good for you.
All Dan is arguing for is fair play in this message. Maybe you've read something different into it, but like he says, if one gay racist is endemic of something wrong in the black community, then so is this guy. It's an either/or proposition.
I like Eminem because he's a very talented and challenging artists. No one said good music had to be good for you.
68
"One asshole faggot racist screams the "N" word at a Prop 8 protest—and is quickly condemned by gay people, including gay people in the crowd—and it tells us everything we need to know about all gay people, and me and others who noted the disproportionate support for Prop 8 among African American voters—including African Americans who noted it—are responsible for unleashing hatred."
It was one asshole racist—and, as you reported, a 7% decline in support among the Gay community from Kerry to Obama—and the leap to make race (particularly the disproportionate support of black voters) the cause of the passage of Proposition 8 when other non-racial variables were more determinant that made me ask where the hatred was coming from.
For the record, I find the the disproportionate support of Proposition 8 within the black community shameful. We, clearly, have a lot of work to do, encouraging our elderly to see the world with new eyes, asking our Christians to follow the loving passages of the Bible instead of the exclusionist, hateful ones, and creating space within our community for all of the sexual identities that help to define us. But I'm willing to do it. I'm willing to commit myself to bettering my community until our polling numbers reflect the apparent acceptable percentage homophobia of the other racial groups. The shame must be lifted.
And I'll condemn every lesser and unknown rapper spewing venom and hate speech without any reservation. Trick Trick is an idiot. Regardless of our voting pattern, he isn't representative of us as a whole.
It was one asshole racist—and, as you reported, a 7% decline in support among the Gay community from Kerry to Obama—and the leap to make race (particularly the disproportionate support of black voters) the cause of the passage of Proposition 8 when other non-racial variables were more determinant that made me ask where the hatred was coming from.
For the record, I find the the disproportionate support of Proposition 8 within the black community shameful. We, clearly, have a lot of work to do, encouraging our elderly to see the world with new eyes, asking our Christians to follow the loving passages of the Bible instead of the exclusionist, hateful ones, and creating space within our community for all of the sexual identities that help to define us. But I'm willing to do it. I'm willing to commit myself to bettering my community until our polling numbers reflect the apparent acceptable percentage homophobia of the other racial groups. The shame must be lifted.
And I'll condemn every lesser and unknown rapper spewing venom and hate speech without any reservation. Trick Trick is an idiot. Regardless of our voting pattern, he isn't representative of us as a whole.
69
@65
Ehrm. . .what? I am so confused.
And probably racist, and definitely misogynist? As well as confused? By your post? Huh.
Ehrm. . .what? I am so confused.
And probably racist, and definitely misogynist? As well as confused? By your post? Huh.
70
@14- What Dan is stating is far more uncomfortable then that-
For the 6 million people who have called him a racist for pointing out that 70% of blacks voted for prop 8 NONE of these people will direct the same kind of this anger towards rappers who actually spew, drum roll please, hate speech.
For the 6 million people who have called him a racist for pointing out that 70% of blacks voted for prop 8 NONE of these people will direct the same kind of this anger towards rappers who actually spew, drum roll please, hate speech.
72
Dan, no one said that "it tells us everything we need to know about all gay people" (or even you) when someone at a No On 8 protest calls another rally participant the N-word. We just said that the blame game and racial divisiveness here and elsewhere created an atmosphere where racists felt comfortable unleashing their invective. Just as it did in the comments section of your original post on the subject when all the racist trolls came out of the woodwork to say how they felt about, you know, extending the franchise to African Americans and such.
Likewise, no one is claiming that there aren't homophobic black people. But holding up this marginal Detroit rapper (who, by the way, is known for and isolated because of his extreme homophobia) as either (a) a representative of the race or (b) a sign of why Prop 8 passed is absurd! To the extent that black Californians did vote overwhelmingly in favor of Prop 8 (still an open question in my book), pretty much everyone agrees that it is because of the homophobia in some mainstream black churches. These are the very same churches that oppose the foul language, violence, and sexual content of some hip hop. The Yes On 8 people did extensive organizing in black faith communities, convincing them, among other things, that without Prop 8 their pastors might be jailed for refusing to perform gay weddings in their churches. No On 8 failed to correct this lie -- both because of huge financial and organizing disadvantages AND because of its mostly white leadership, which was unaware of or incapable of dealing with the problem. What about this is so difficult to understand?
Likewise, no one is claiming that there aren't homophobic black people. But holding up this marginal Detroit rapper (who, by the way, is known for and isolated because of his extreme homophobia) as either (a) a representative of the race or (b) a sign of why Prop 8 passed is absurd! To the extent that black Californians did vote overwhelmingly in favor of Prop 8 (still an open question in my book), pretty much everyone agrees that it is because of the homophobia in some mainstream black churches. These are the very same churches that oppose the foul language, violence, and sexual content of some hip hop. The Yes On 8 people did extensive organizing in black faith communities, convincing them, among other things, that without Prop 8 their pastors might be jailed for refusing to perform gay weddings in their churches. No On 8 failed to correct this lie -- both because of huge financial and organizing disadvantages AND because of its mostly white leadership, which was unaware of or incapable of dealing with the problem. What about this is so difficult to understand?
73
Stop Funding Foolishness.
The man is not the voice of the "black community". The "black community" doesn't need to answer for him. He can answer for himself.
Prop 8 got defeated across the board. Anti-gay initiatives got passed across the country.
Clearly folks are not buying gay marriage as a larger social justice issue but a religious one.
Gay Americans have their work cut out for them.
Pointing out this mans lyrics is waste of time since folks who would buy his crap don't vote.
The man is not the voice of the "black community". The "black community" doesn't need to answer for him. He can answer for himself.
Prop 8 got defeated across the board. Anti-gay initiatives got passed across the country.
Clearly folks are not buying gay marriage as a larger social justice issue but a religious one.
Gay Americans have their work cut out for them.
Pointing out this mans lyrics is waste of time since folks who would buy his crap don't vote.
74
Oh, I get it. You're auditioning for a TV show, and this is your prep material. As long as you can say that blacks are the problem - you're on. I see.
Rappers aren't crazy about women either, but I bet you don't consider that an issue to write about.
Rappers aren't crazy about women either, but I bet you don't consider that an issue to write about.
75
God, this post is still here, and still so embarrassing! When are you going to account for yourself, Savage?
But this guy with his recording contract and his compulsive use of the "F" word doesn't tell us anything about homophobia in the African American community.
The way that, say, Sebastian Bach tells us about homophobia in the "white community"? I mean, seriously, isn't taking one person's fault and attributing it to his whole race the sine qua non of racial prejudice?
But this guy with his recording contract and his compulsive use of the "F" word doesn't tell us anything about homophobia in the African American community.
The way that, say, Sebastian Bach tells us about homophobia in the "white community"? I mean, seriously, isn't taking one person's fault and attributing it to his whole race the sine qua non of racial prejudice?
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