http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2009/01/02/shots_fired_at_23rd_and_union Comments On: Shots Fired at 23rd and Union by Jonah Spangenthal-Lee en-us Copyright 2009 The Stranger. All rights reserved. This RSS file is offered to individuals, The Stranger readers, and non-commercial organizations only. Any commercial websites wishing to use this RSS file, please contact The Stranger. webmaster@thestranger.com (The Stranger Webmaster) Mon, 23 Nov 2009 00:00:01 -0800 Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:00:00 -0800 Foundation http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss
I live a block away from that intersection and feel less threatened (read unconcerned) than when I am in DC, NYC, LA, Chicago, and so on, and far less than compared to traveling abroad. If you are uncomfortable in this area then you might want to stick to Mayberry, but don't be offended when your comments hyping the "scary corner" get laughed at as if you are a rube. I'm not hating, I'm just saying.
Posted by Not Applebee's]]> Sun, 04 Jan 2009 15:24:58 -0800 The Stranger
Great, but seems in this case 'diverse' means you'll need to get the kiddies bullet proof vests.

Applebees in Fremont or Wallingford? MAybe you should come up here some time and show us? Leave the bullet proof vests at home too, you can walk the streets here without fear of 'ethnically diverse' gunfire.
Posted by homey]]> Sun, 04 Jan 2009 09:23:20 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Not Applebee's]]> Sun, 04 Jan 2009 08:56:36 -0800 The Stranger
In other words, 23rd and Union is a symbolic place for crime to happen no matter what happens. The worst thing that's ever happened at that corner since I moved here 12 years ago was the shooting at the Philly Cheese Steak restaurant almost a year ago.
Posted by apres_moi]]> Sun, 04 Jan 2009 00:16:50 -0800 The Stranger COMMENT DELETED: Spam
We'd rather not moderate your comments, but off-topic, gratuitously inflammatory, threatening, or otherwise inappropriate remarks may be removed, and repeat offenders may be banned from commenting. We never censor comments based on ideology. Thanks to all who add to the conversation on Slog.

Posted by BILLY MAYS]]> Sun, 04 Jan 2009 00:05:36 -0800 The Stranger Posted by six shooter]]> Sat, 03 Jan 2009 18:30:10 -0800 The Stranger
That's OK buddy. Eastgate is nice also. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
Posted by A big hearty dose of bullshit...]]> Sat, 03 Jan 2009 18:29:39 -0800 The Stranger
1) Knowing how to put a rubber on my c**k and not having babies you can't support?

2) Staying in a stable marriage?

3) Not spreading my seed around the ho's and refusing to be a good father?

4) Knowing that hard and work and studying gets you ahead in life?

5) Not spending all my money on rims for the Escalade but instead investing in my kids education?

which you define as common sense.

well, other than the fact that that is a hilarious bunch of stereotypes of people, let's take that at face value. you are saying whites have the advantage of common sense. i'm not sure how that is not considered racist, but it mustn't, as you have non-white friends, of course. you then write,

"All my black, white, Asian and latino friends I have here north of the ship canal know about common sense, it's why they can afford to live here and avoid the ghetto trash."

if this is true, these black, asian and latino friends of yours have someone also participated in the advantages of being white, of having common sense. if this is true, then common sense is not an advantage of being white.

but would cause your earlier statements to be true then?

if it's not that "common sense" comes from being white, where does it come from then? could it possibly come from something else? from your neighborhood? your education? your surroundings? your immediate culture?

or you tell me, where do your stereotypes come from?

and before you trot out the exceptions to the rule, those who did make it out of the ghetto, please remember that in my world, i accept exceptions. yours is the world where one race has the advantage of common sense.
Posted by infrequent]]> Sat, 03 Jan 2009 18:03:43 -0800 The Stranger
Need to check my own spelling and grammar!
Posted by homey]]> Sat, 03 Jan 2009 17:38:15 -0800 The Stranger Knowing how to put a rubber on my c**k and not having babies you can't support?

why can't i support your inexistent babies? i mean, i have a good job.

Posted by infrequent]]> Sat, 03 Jan 2009 17:35:41 -0800 The Stranger
If the low income folks work hard, save, get a good education, they, too, can afford to live here north of the ship canal. No one's keeping them out but themselves. Take some responsibility for your failures in live and stop blaming others.

Give the CD another 10 years of gentrification and I can guarantee the gang problem will be solved there.
Posted by homey]]> Sat, 03 Jan 2009 17:35:38 -0800 The Stranger
WHat advantages are you talking about? Knowing how to put a rubber on my c**k and not having babies you can't support? Staying in a stable marriage? Not spreading my seed around the ho's and refusing to be a good father? Knowing that hard and work and studying gets you ahead in life? Not spending all my money on rims for the Escalade but instead investing in my kids education?

This isn't an 'advantage'. This is common sense. All my black, white, Asian and latino friends I have here north of the ship canal know about common sense, it's why they can afford to live here and avoid the ghetto trash.
Posted by homey]]> Sat, 03 Jan 2009 17:31:11 -0800 The Stranger Posted by infrequent]]> Sat, 03 Jan 2009 16:42:04 -0800 The Stranger burden by not sharing...

ah!

and i'd just like to add a little more: good job at not taking advantage of the benefits of being white.... or of growing up white, or by ever living in a safe neighborhood. i'm not sure how you were able to do it, but you did! your live is exactly like that of someone raised in a lower class neighborhood, attending a school with a sad budget, being discriminated against for the color of your skin... you somehow had that experience! and though i might disagree with your views as they are posted here, i did want to thank you for pulling yourself up by your bootstraps even though you had all that against you!
Posted by infrequent]]> Sat, 03 Jan 2009 16:25:16 -0800 The Stranger
an equitable system has to have a place for the low income to live. middle-class and rich folks seem to like to isolate themselves, let them live somewhere else... the "city", or the where there is "density". you created the extra tax burned by now sharing what should be all our responsibility. so you don't have a homeless shelter, more money for your suburban park and library. bravo! you are the lords, and they are the serfs! what a utopia you envision.

oh, and you've got a little racism showing there. i think you can do a better job of covering that up.
Posted by infrequent]]> Sat, 03 Jan 2009 16:08:13 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Amelia]]> Sat, 03 Jan 2009 16:05:11 -0800 The Stranger COMMENT DELETED: Spam
We'd rather not moderate your comments, but off-topic, gratuitously inflammatory, threatening, or otherwise inappropriate remarks may be removed, and repeat offenders may be banned from commenting. We never censor comments based on ideology. Thanks to all who add to the conversation on Slog.

Posted by olenchos]]> Sat, 03 Jan 2009 15:56:00 -0800 The Stranger
"Why doesn't SPD just do a continuous back and forth up and down 23rd and/or circle the 4 block area of that intersection?"

Cuz then the ACLU and NAACP will be complainin' about profiling. I say, instead, let them kill each other off and save tax payers money.

Best cure for gang bangers? Gentrification. Bring it on!
Posted by Homey]]> Sat, 03 Jan 2009 15:55:06 -0800 The Stranger
I know all about that. This issue as I see it has to do with the very violent crime of shots being fired, or any other type of random violence that the thugz perpetuate. Comparing murders, stabbings, and shootings to rich kids getting high is ridiculous. Random bullets have more likelihood of making an area a slum vs a few rich kids finding a high. Let's keep this on track as you said.

I have indeed spent time living in a neighborhood like that. I still have friends in the area and see the continuing effects the thugz are having.

I never said it was strictly density that is the cause of the problem. However it is the mentality of allowing/forcing subsidized housing and/or those who are pushing for including "affordable" housing in all new condo projects as contributing to this issue. Until the thugz are forced into Pierce county, we'll continue to see this issue in Seattle proper.

All the issues you listed in your post have little to do with the root cause of the issue. Lower taxes are the results of all the problems in those neighborhoods. The tax base will return once the scum is gone. Less money for the neighborhood? Huh? Tell me what "extra" money in my neighborhood goes towards that keeps my current fellow neighbors from committing crimes? Nothing. It has no correlation to their propensity to be decent fellow human neighbors. Lack of media attention? So I need the media to alert me to their plight? For what purpose? Pity? I had noone to "help" me get to where I am, save good parents with little money. Why should anyone have to give what they scratched out to someone who continually has a hand out, yet does nothing long term to get out of their situation? The answer is that some of us truly struggled to make our situation better, didn't give up when facing a hurdle and eventually climbed out. Other simply keep putting their hand out.

Who said I'm hiding from any problem under the sheets? That is your implication, yet is founded on nothing. Nice attempt at a stereotype. Rather, I refuse to hide and will stand up to inform the idiots out there who continue to espouse political positions that have no future.

If you feel unsafe in your Rainier Beach neighborhood, you should be honestly asking yourself the real answers behind the bullshit. What contributes to your feeling that way? Is it white folks, indian folks or asian folks who are inherently honest and decent? Or is there some deep dark secret as to where the true source of the issue lies.

Yes indeed Jen we need to take a look at the whole picture and consider all of the potential factors as to why our society is so fucked up and Politcally Correct that we can't honestly engage in true discourse to get at the real root of the issue(s). Instead we have pathetic liberal hipsters who insist on diluting the issue with their political correct diversity mantra.

And so it continues...

You all tired of the violence from a certain segment of the population yet?
Posted by A big hearty thanks to you hipsters]]> Sat, 03 Jan 2009 14:29:20 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Postum]]> Sat, 03 Jan 2009 14:03:48 -0800 The Stranger **thousand thread count sheets

I thought I'd correct myself before anyone side-tracked the conversation by pointing out my error.
Posted by Jen]]> Sat, 03 Jan 2009 13:52:50 -0800 The Stranger
I grew up on the east side of the lake, with its lower violent crime rates and higher incidences of heavy drug use by teens (you know, the stuff the trust fund babies can afford or find in their parents' medicine cabinets). I then lived in denser, yet safe, north/west end neighborhoods like Northgate and Ballard (where you still get accosted by pushy homeless people, but don't see black buys with guns or white girls giving head while on meth). I'm currently living in the just-as-dense-as-Northgate neighborhood of Rainier Beach (where I don't feel safe walking the street at night) and see that density is the least of the neighborhood's issues. Lower taxes (and, subsequently, less money for the city to spend on the neighborhood), a lack of media attention, and a fracturing of each individual neighborhood - between gentrified areas and the working, or non-working, poor - are just a few of the things that have contributed to the crime rate in this area.

We need to take a look at the whole picture and consider all of the potential factors before crawling back under our thousand-count thread sheets and hiding from the problem.
Posted by Jen]]> Sat, 03 Jan 2009 13:22:14 -0800 The Stranger
Note those all have become exactly the types of cheaper refuges that the early Seattle migrants have all fled to as Seattle has become increasingly pricier.

Lets face it. The crime from the lower classes follows them whereever they decide to move to next. All the places you mention are exactly where Seattle gentrification is pushing the exiles.

The safe exurbs exists where there is little cheap downtown property for the thugz to congregate. Let's use Redmond, Issaquah, Kirkland or even Bellevue as prime examples. In each of those locations they are few if any places "downtown" for thugz to hang and represent. Those places also coincidentally have very low non Caucasian, Indian or Asian populations. (Read there are few blacks and hispanics). Hmmmm coincidence? You think?

Because there are few cheap places for them to live, they don't socialize or recreate in the local downtowns of those suburbs. Fact.

Compare that with any of the locales you mention. Let's take Kent as an example. How much cheap rent, "urban downtown" terrain exists for them to claim their territory on?

Thanks for proving my point.

Once again hipsters. We "haves" salute you.

Keep on keepin' on and earning those low(er) wages to keep the nostalgia alive.
Posted by A big hearty thanks to you hipsters]]> Sat, 03 Jan 2009 13:12:46 -0800 The Stranger
where are the safe exurbs again? burien? seatac? federal way? auburn? i tell you, i've yet to be accosted in seattle... but des moines? federal way? kent? i have in all three of those cities of less populated virtue.
Posted by infrequent]]> Sat, 03 Jan 2009 12:49:53 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Divershitty is our greatest strength - some naive liberal]]> Sat, 03 Jan 2009 12:39:29 -0800 The Stranger