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    <channel>
      <title>Comments On: Lemon Pledge
    
      by Dan Savage</title>
      <link>http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/12/29/lemon_pledge</link>
      <atom:link href="http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Rss.xml?oid=904089&amp;id=comments" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />      <description>Comments On: Lemon Pledge
    
      by Dan Savage</description>
      <language>en-us</language>
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      <pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 00:00:01 -0800</pubDate>
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      <docs>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss</docs>
      
        
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Lemon Pledge]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/12/29/lemon_pledge/#907047]]></link>
    
    <guid isPermaLink="true"><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/12/29/lemon_pledge/#907047]]></guid>
    <author><![CDATA[grammar nazi]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[um... <br />
<br />
addition?
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by grammar nazi]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 22:34:54 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Lemon Pledge]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/12/29/lemon_pledge/#906982]]></link>
    
    <guid isPermaLink="true"><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/12/29/lemon_pledge/#906982]]></guid>
    <author><![CDATA[jade]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[I don't know if this has been posted elsewhere, but it looks like the baby is alive and well.<br />
<br />
"Tripp," if you can fucking believe it.<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/29/bristol-palin-baby-son-tr_n_154081.html">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/29&hellip;</a>
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by jade]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 20:46:38 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Lemon Pledge]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/12/29/lemon_pledge/#906851]]></link>
    
    <guid isPermaLink="true"><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/12/29/lemon_pledge/#906851]]></guid>
    <author><![CDATA[Cookie W. Monster]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[@19,<br />
<br />
I'm not jubilation (sic) anymore, scary. Never was, in fact. Forget your little pilly-pill again this morning?<br />
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Cookie W. Monster]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 17:49:02 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Lemon Pledge]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/12/29/lemon_pledge/#904930]]></link>
    
    <guid isPermaLink="true"><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/12/29/lemon_pledge/#904930]]></guid>
    <author><![CDATA[Ian]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[I'm the first offspring of my mom, I was two weeks late. I hear its common for first time moms.
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Ian]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 16:08:39 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Lemon Pledge]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/12/29/lemon_pledge/#904796]]></link>
    
    <guid isPermaLink="true"><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/12/29/lemon_pledge/#904796]]></guid>
    <author><![CDATA[gnossos]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Maybe they're calling the babe: Palin, v 3, issue 1...
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by gnossos]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 15:12:04 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Lemon Pledge]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/12/29/lemon_pledge/#904722]]></link>
    
    <guid isPermaLink="true"><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/12/29/lemon_pledge/#904722]]></guid>
    <author><![CDATA[ams]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[@23. Obviously that should have read "newest addition to the Palin klan".
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by ams]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 14:50:17 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Lemon Pledge]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/12/29/lemon_pledge/#904617]]></link>
    
    <guid isPermaLink="true"><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/12/29/lemon_pledge/#904617]]></guid>
    <author><![CDATA[gnossos]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA["newest edition to the Palin clan"<br />
<br />
Dude, you've been in the newspaper biz too long.
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by gnossos]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 13:56:31 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Lemon Pledge]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/12/29/lemon_pledge/#904352]]></link>
    
    <guid isPermaLink="true"><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/12/29/lemon_pledge/#904352]]></guid>
    <author><![CDATA[Urgutha Forka]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Well, now that this study's out, I'm sure virginity pledging will disappear.
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Urgutha Forka]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 11:16:15 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Lemon Pledge]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/12/29/lemon_pledge/#904344]]></link>
    
    <guid isPermaLink="true"><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/12/29/lemon_pledge/#904344]]></guid>
    <author><![CDATA[east coaster]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Dude, don't be a dick. It is perfectly normal for babies to be born several days past their due date. That said, once it's two weeks past the due date the baby is considered overdue and the doctors will induce labor, so once it's two weeks and two days (to allow for the possibility of protracted labor) past Dec. 20 you can start asking where it is.
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by east coaster]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 11:10:27 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Lemon Pledge]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/12/29/lemon_pledge/#904262]]></link>
    
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    <author><![CDATA[Vince]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Education, education, education. Information, true information, is always a good thing. People who think ignorance is a good thing lead to disaster every time. Just look at our current President.
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Vince]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 10:36:36 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Lemon Pledge]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/12/29/lemon_pledge/#904206]]></link>
    
    <guid isPermaLink="true"><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/12/29/lemon_pledge/#904206]]></guid>
    <author><![CDATA[scary tyler moore]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA["This just in: Dan Savage shoots pit bull for talking on cell phone in movie theatre during matinee showing of Milk. Details at 11!"<br />
<br />
you're not funny anymore, jubilation.
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by scary tyler moore]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 10:08:41 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Lemon Pledge]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/12/29/lemon_pledge/#904168]]></link>
    
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    <author><![CDATA[Julie in Chicago]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Flamingbanjo is right – I forgot about the “how’d that happen” thing in Savage Love.  It all goes back to, if you want to have sex, you are a slut/bad person.  If you actively decide to have sex, you are a slut/bad person.  If you take control of your sex life, you are a slut/bad person.  This is what abstinence-only education, virginity pledges, and no-sex until marriage religious dogma teaches us.  And STIs and unplanned pregnancies are the result.
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Julie in Chicago]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 09:55:37 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Lemon Pledge]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/12/29/lemon_pledge/#904160]]></link>
    
    <guid isPermaLink="true"><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/12/29/lemon_pledge/#904160]]></guid>
    <author><![CDATA[meeps]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Oh flamingbanjo. No good fundamentalist would believe in Santa, EVER!
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by meeps]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 09:46:29 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Lemon Pledge]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/12/29/lemon_pledge/#904153]]></link>
    
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    <author><![CDATA[flamingbanjo]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[I think Dan has a term for this sort of sexual decision-making: "How'd <i>that</i> happen?"  In the context of <i>Savage Love</i> it usually refers to people who won't own up to their own preferences -- "Next thing I knew I'm getting blown in an airport bathroom -- how'd that happen?" -- but I suspect this sort of management-by-crisis approach is more common among people who have been inculcated with a high degree of sexual shame.  It's almost as if the fundamentalist mindset, by actively discouraging critical thinking,  is forcing these kids into the habit of acting without forethought.  <br />
<br />
I'd be curious to see if the same kids who take virginity pledges and then don't honor them showed any differences in non-sexual decision-making: Are they more likely to be roped into three-card monty games?  More likely to still believe in Santa?  More likely to take out a high-interest loan?  More likely to vote for a Republican?
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by flamingbanjo]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 09:39:49 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Lemon Pledge]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/12/29/lemon_pledge/#904145]]></link>
    
    <guid isPermaLink="true"><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/12/29/lemon_pledge/#904145]]></guid>
    <author><![CDATA[NapoleonXIV]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Virginity pledges are <i>sexy!</i>
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by NapoleonXIV]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 09:30:02 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Lemon Pledge]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/12/29/lemon_pledge/#904142]]></link>
    
    <guid isPermaLink="true"><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/12/29/lemon_pledge/#904142]]></guid>
    <author><![CDATA[Reverse Polarity]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Why am I not even slightly surprised by the results of this study?
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Reverse Polarity]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 09:25:36 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Lemon Pledge]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/12/29/lemon_pledge/#904138]]></link>
    
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    <author><![CDATA[Julie in Chicago]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[@11.  Agreed.  If you plan for sex by ensuring you have condoms or other forms of birth control, then having sex was a conscious decision.  You have consciously violated your virginity pledge.<br />
<br />
Whereas, if you don’t make that conscious decision, it is something that “just happens”.   You didn’t “mean to” have sex (you didn’t make a bad decision), you just got carried away.
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Julie in Chicago]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 09:18:06 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Lemon Pledge]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/12/29/lemon_pledge/#904130]]></link>
    
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    <author><![CDATA[Mike in MO]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[They are still studying this? How many times do they have to arrive at the same conclusion before people get it through their thick retarded skulls?
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Mike in MO]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 09:08:58 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Lemon Pledge]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/12/29/lemon_pledge/#904129]]></link>
    
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    <author><![CDATA[Rob]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[@7, Virginity pledges have a direct effect on the use, or the lack there of birth control, and safer sex practices.  Kids who pledge to stay virgins are less likely to have, condoms or other types of contraception because they are not planning sexual encounters, but they are just as likely to have sex.
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Rob]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 09:08:01 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Lemon Pledge]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/12/29/lemon_pledge/#904106]]></link>
    
    <guid isPermaLink="true"><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/12/29/lemon_pledge/#904106]]></guid>
    <author><![CDATA[Seattle Fag]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Other studies prove that the earth is flat and that the earth is the center of the galaxy.<br />
<br />
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Seattle Fag]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 09:03:15 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Lemon Pledge]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/12/29/lemon_pledge/#904105]]></link>
    
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    <author><![CDATA[rococo]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA["Rosenbaum attributed the difference to what youths learn about condoms in abstinence-focused programs."<br />
<br />
nm, already in the analysis.
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by rococo]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 09:03:07 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Lemon Pledge]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/12/29/lemon_pledge/#904104]]></link>
    
    <guid isPermaLink="true"><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/12/29/lemon_pledge/#904104]]></guid>
    <author><![CDATA[Sad, but true....]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Part of the absolute evil brilliance of the conservative movement was the creation of think tanks like Heritage and Discovery, who constantly pump out bogus "studies" that can be used to contradict the work of real scientists and scholars.
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Sad, but true....]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 09:02:21 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Lemon Pledge]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/12/29/lemon_pledge/#904103]]></link>
    
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    <author><![CDATA[rococo]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[I bet the cause behind the lack of condom/birth control use has more to do with abstinence-only sex ed.  I wouldn't be surprised if virginity pledges were more highly concentrated in areas that don't allow comprehensive sex ed.  However, I doubt that taking a virginity pledge in and of itself causes a significant portion of kids to be idiots.
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by rococo]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 09:01:16 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Lemon Pledge]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/12/29/lemon_pledge/#904102]]></link>
    
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    <author><![CDATA[Rob]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[You could always ask to see these "other studies".  Chances are, if they even exist at all, they were done by the American Family Association, or other such biased groups, and are easily discredited.
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Rob]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 09:00:32 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Lemon Pledge]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/12/29/lemon_pledge/#904097]]></link>
    
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    <author><![CDATA[Dr_Awesome]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[I mention things like this to my conservative, fundamentalist christian, narrow-minded co-worker occasionally.  <br />
<br />
He always replies the same way: "Other studies show that that's not true."  <br />
<br />
We can discuss any of the hot-button issues and his reply is always the same.  Whether one chooses one's sexual orientation or not, whether sex-ed need be taught in school or not, whether the free-market is a fuck-up or just needs more time to work.  <br />
<br />
"Other studies show that that's not true."<br />
<br />
How do you fight such a counter-argument?  How do you get past the blinders of dogma?  <br />
<br />
You're preaching to the choir here.  But ntil you can break through the dogma barrier, you can't reach the people like my co-worker, the people that need to hear the message.
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Dr_Awesome]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 08:53:48 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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