http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/12/22/things_are_tough_all_over Comments On: Things Are Tough All Over by Dan Savage en-us Copyright 2009 The Stranger. All rights reserved. This RSS file is offered to individuals, The Stranger readers, and non-commercial organizations only. Any commercial websites wishing to use this RSS file, please contact The Stranger. webmaster@thestranger.com (The Stranger Webmaster) Mon, 23 Nov 2009 00:00:01 -0800 Mon, 23 Nov 2009 08:30:00 -0800 Foundation http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Wow! I'm going to have to check the Dower book, sounds fascinating. Thanks for the recommendation.
Posted by feh]]> Wed, 24 Dec 2008 08:08:56 -0800 The Stranger
Also, the major war machine companies like Toyota and Mitsubishi were able to smoothly transition their operations into other heavy industry production. In the weeks after the A-bombs and surrender, high level officials in these corporations and in the military and government basically had a free-for-all scramble to hoard the stockpiles privately. Later they made huge profits by leaking these onto the black market, even while the Japanese people starved and wandered homeless. Want to know why heavy right-wing elements still dominate Japanese politics? Why they can get away with outright denial of established war-crimes? 'Cause they still gots the $$$ from the war! (In part thanks to MacArthur's support of conservative politics in Japan.)

Just goes to show that evil fascist rulers are evil fascist rulers wherever you go.... All that sound a fury over patriotism and serving and protecting the nation, but in the end, the people will suffer, and the rich and powerful will continue to screw the world with their millions.

Incidentally, in case anyone is curious, the only major Japanese car company that did not have a hand in Japan's bloody exercise in imperialism was Honda.
Posted by history nerd]]> Tue, 23 Dec 2008 12:17:38 -0800 The Stranger
I've found a couple of books useful in understanding what was going on in Asia before US involvement.

The first is "The Rape of Nanking" by the late Iris Chang, who killed herself several years ago. It explains how the Japanese were brainwashed to commit so many atrocities against Chinese civilians.

As a contrast, "Wild Swans" gives the larger 20th century context for some of those Chinese (female) civilians.

Bizarrely, the crimes perpetrated against the Chinese by the Japanese cannot add up to the 70 million Chinese killed by Mao.


Posted by feh]]> Tue, 23 Dec 2008 10:36:31 -0800 The Stranger
Then that's exactly the problem. You're also attempting to find moral direction/judgement on actions undertake in a war. There is no point in attempting to gain a moral high ground when discussing a war. It's like seeing who can lay claim to being on top a mountain of feces.

Lord Basil does have a point. Japan did bring the first physical blow and we responded in kind. You are also right of course that WWII was simply fascism vs fascism. It's a war though, and while I hate to trot out a cliche, under whom would you have rather lived? Nazi Germany, the USA, Britain or Japan?
Posted by just saying...]]> Tue, 23 Dec 2008 06:58:58 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Gloria]]> Tue, 23 Dec 2008 06:41:01 -0800 The Stranger
Keep on suggesting stuff like "Bush should have nuked Mecca after 9/11" ....yeah that would have ended the threat from Islamic extremists... except for the 8 million Muslims in the US who would turn on us not to mention the 1.8 billion in the rest of the world. So congratulations you just turned a 1/4 of the earth's population against us and started a small civil war. Any more foreign policy gems?
Posted by Andy]]> Tue, 23 Dec 2008 04:29:18 -0800 The Stranger
You need to grow up, son.

Put down you marihuana and put on your counry's uniform. You'll understand the real world in a hurry.
Posted by Lord Basil]]> Tue, 23 Dec 2008 01:21:39 -0800 The Stranger
Virtually all of Europe was fascist. The war was basically fascists fighting fascists. France, England... yes them too. Yes the holocaust was the worst mass killing in recorded history, but don't forget crap we pulled like the fire bombing of Dresden, the fire bombing of Tokyo... inviting and pretty much forcing Japan to attack Pearl Harbor killing our own troops/civilians, forcing all Americans of Japanese decent into internment camps, Eisenhower's POW camps that killed over a million Germans (which is totally cool cause he became our President a few years later) oh... yeah and we dropped two nukes, the first on a city with women and and children and all that jazz (a quarter of a million of whom are still living today that were effected by the radiation)...

...but we're the good guys right? Yeah we had to do it.
Posted by Andy]]> Tue, 23 Dec 2008 01:13:26 -0800 The Stranger
If we had dropped a few on North Viet Nam in 1958 or so, 58000 Americans would still be alive, and Viet Nam would be a jewel of freedom in Asia.

Bush should have nuked Mecca after 9/11. Then we would not need to have invaded Iraq.
Nothing gets the point across to savages better than a mushroom cloud.
Posted by Lord Basil]]> Tue, 23 Dec 2008 01:08:03 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Andy]]> Tue, 23 Dec 2008 00:53:22 -0800 The Stranger Posted by dad ghost]]> Mon, 22 Dec 2008 22:53:22 -0800 The Stranger Posted by seabear]]> Mon, 22 Dec 2008 22:36:53 -0800 The Stranger Posted by seabear]]> Mon, 22 Dec 2008 22:33:54 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Andy Niable]]> Mon, 22 Dec 2008 20:45:47 -0800 The Stranger I recommend you watch "The Fog of War" in which McNamara compares the firebombing of 67 Japanese cities during the war, to the less lethal bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Given the thoughts you have expressed, I think you will get a lot out of the film. I had preconceptions about the bombing, changed my mind later in life, then watched McNamara in the film, and - it wasn't so much that my mind was changed again, but that he changed my view of the actions in a larger way.
It is a fascinating film.
Posted by feh]]> Mon, 22 Dec 2008 19:10:41 -0800 The Stranger Posted by wow]]> Mon, 22 Dec 2008 19:10:19 -0800 The Stranger
For the record, before I'm dismissed as some sort of ultra-conservative kook, let me say that I'm pro-gay-rights, pro-gay-marriage, voted for Obama, morally opposed to abortion but don't want to see it outlawed (don't want a return to the coathanger days), but otherwise rather liberal in my outlook. But don't go trying to make America feel guilty for ending a war we didn't start. God knows, we've got enough else to feel guilty about these days.
Posted by abel]]> Mon, 22 Dec 2008 19:03:46 -0800 The Stranger
I'm sure in Japanese they have an even more passive indirect way to say that, too!
Posted by PC]]> Mon, 22 Dec 2008 18:38:10 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Cato the Younger Younger]]> Mon, 22 Dec 2008 18:24:41 -0800 The Stranger Posted by gk]]> Mon, 22 Dec 2008 18:19:22 -0800 The Stranger
@ 2, Too gay would be soft shoe & "Putting On The Ritz" when you pick up 800 thread count sheets for 75% off at "Linens and Things" going out of business sale.
Posted by Y.F.]]> Mon, 22 Dec 2008 18:15:25 -0800 The Stranger Posted by andrew]]> Mon, 22 Dec 2008 17:48:42 -0800 The Stranger ESPECIALLY profitable during a fucking war.

Geez.
Posted by andrew]]> Mon, 22 Dec 2008 17:47:39 -0800 The Stranger
Although, they must not have made too much of a profit before the war. Otherwise, we would have dismantled them like we did with all the gigantic corporations over there during the occupation.
Posted by Sam]]> Mon, 22 Dec 2008 17:46:40 -0800 The Stranger
Okay....

What part of war profiteering/war economy don't you understand?

What do you think had happened in the runup to Japan being "nuked"?

Rampant Japanese militarism and military spending ring a bell? Spending which would have involved all Japanese industrial companies, Toyota not being the special exception?

And, uh, let's not forget that the civilian casualties that resulted from our "nuking" Hiroshima and Nagasaki - which were appalling, regardless of what Japan itself had enacted - were nothing compared to our firebombing Japanese cities under McNamara/Lemay, which resulted in far more civilian casualties, destruction and disease.

Yes, that McNamara. Another white guy with an apparent penchant for bombing Asians, as the US Vietnam conflict would confirm.

Sorry, Dan, after a nuking joke, let's get back to making fun of Rick Warren. A guy who's obviously VERY, VERY threatening. Or so we're led to believe. (I can't believe I'm in the position of defending this creep, but seriously, that's how offbase and exaggerated your criticism of the invocation speaker has been.
Posted by feh]]> Mon, 22 Dec 2008 17:41:41 -0800 The Stranger