Comments On: An Abortion Pledge for the Rest of Us by Dan Savage http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2011/06/23/an-abortion-pledge-for-the-rest-of-us Comments On: An Abortion Pledge for the Rest of Us by Dan Savage en-us Copyright 2013 The Stranger. All rights reserved. This RSS file is offered to individuals, The Stranger readers, and non-commercial organizations only. Any commercial websites wishing to use this RSS file, please contact The Stranger. webmaster@thestranger.com (The Stranger Webmaster) Tue, 21 May 2013 00:00:01 -0700 Tue, 21 May 2013 18:00:00 -0700 Foundation http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss <![CDATA[Re: An Abortion Pledge for the Rest of Us]]>
And a pledge intended for other people based on your own experiences/observations/prejudices could be marginally funny, I suppose. But this isn't. It sounds a lot like how the conservatives roll.

Dan, come on. Really?
Posted by Kristen]]> Tue, 28 Jun 2011 22:27:06 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: An Abortion Pledge for the Rest of Us]]>
Sure, if you're a selfish cunt. But I wouldn't give up the sleepless nights, exhaustion and thousands of dollars I spend to raise my kids for anything. My kids are my life; id give mine for theirs in a heartbeat

Then again, I'm not a selfish cunt.
Posted by Rhymes with rich]]> Tue, 28 Jun 2011 18:39:15 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: An Abortion Pledge for the Rest of Us]]> Posted by Mike Hunt]]> Tue, 28 Jun 2011 18:28:02 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: An Abortion Pledge for the Rest of Us]]>
Let alone constitutional. And once you've created your childless dystopia, will you give up your social security and Medicare first?
Posted by Blackrose makes cunts look charming]]> Tue, 28 Jun 2011 18:08:46 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: An Abortion Pledge for the Rest of Us]]> Posted by Maitiu]]> Tue, 28 Jun 2011 16:45:28 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: An Abortion Pledge for the Rest of Us]]> Posted by Maitiu]]> Tue, 28 Jun 2011 16:37:47 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: An Abortion Pledge for the Rest of Us]]> Posted by vdeluca]]> Tue, 28 Jun 2011 14:37:45 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: An Abortion Pledge for the Rest of Us]]> You declare that anyone who approaches this topic with any sense of subtlety or tactfulness is some kind of evil, woman-oppressing, anti-choice apologist. You attack your allies. Your attitude is militant and completely counterproductive.
I am pro-choice and no whacko like you is goint to tell me that I am not.
Posted by onion]]> Tue, 28 Jun 2011 13:45:49 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: An Abortion Pledge for the Rest of Us]]>
The social incentives: Make birth control and abortion freely and easily available everywhere. Fund research into better contraceptives, especially male ones: the most promising candidate is called RISUG or Vasagel, and is already in Phase III human trials in India. Create public-service announcements and TV shows extolling the virtues of being child-free and the burdens of raising a kid. Make better sex-ed programs in schools. Some schools already have students carry around an egg for a week, or make a budget, to show what it's like to have a kid; extend and elaborate on such school programs to give kids a realistic idea of how hard it is and how much it takes away from you to have a kid.

The financial ones: Remove the incentives to have a kid, such as extra TANF funding and tax credits for additional kids. Forbid maternity/paternity leaves. Give preference in government jobs and contracts to child-free people, and to companies that support child-free policies, like we currently do for veterans and minority-owned businesses. Give a tax credit or government funding to people for each year they remain child-free. Require the purchase of an insurance policy or a fee in order to have a kid, or make, e.g., driver's licenses contingent on such an insurance policy.

Just a few ideas off the top of my head. Obviously few, if any, of them will ever be politically feasible.
Posted by BlackRose]]> Tue, 28 Jun 2011 13:29:34 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: An Abortion Pledge for the Rest of Us]]>
http://www.petitiononline.com/santorum/p…
Posted by Jocelyn]]> Tue, 28 Jun 2011 11:38:13 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: An Abortion Pledge for the Rest of Us]]> I like the new one, although it might grind your teeth to read this coming from someone who was against the first pledge (more so against some of your comments from earlier in this thread), you might have gone too far in the other direction. That said, I would sign the revised pledge. I would also sign a pledge that just said:
I believe abortion is a viable for of birth control and I will support planned parenthood.
Posted by jjm84]]> Tue, 28 Jun 2011 10:22:44 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: An Abortion Pledge for the Rest of Us]]> Posted by mitten]]> Tue, 28 Jun 2011 09:44:35 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: An Abortion Pledge for the Rest of Us]]> Posted by Lilah]]> Tue, 28 Jun 2011 05:18:29 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: An Abortion Pledge for the Rest of Us]]>
You seemed to have turned this into some sort of class issue, when all it's about is not having kids if you can't give them the best chance to succeed. If it is possible to do so on $14,000 a year, fine, but as far as I know that's not what the statistics say. I may well be factually wrong about the numbers or the circumstances in which it makes sense to raise kids, but it's very clear to me that you shouldn't have kids unless you're ready and willing to devote the time and energy and resources it takes to raise kids right.

Please tell me: why is my position "morally bankrupt," and do you think having kids you can't support isn't? And what social consequences are you thinking that there would be? The only one I can see is that there would be fewer kids, but they'd be better taken care of -- which is the whole point.


Posted by BlackRose]]> Mon, 27 Jun 2011 21:23:57 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: An Abortion Pledge for the Rest of Us]]>
Let's repeat that:

"not a right that anyone who is able should be allowed to freely exercise"

And again:

"not a right that anyone who is able should be allowed to freely exercise"

SO, how do you propose that right be taken away?

Again Blackrose, you are the very essence of what reasonable people would call a 'cunt'. I hope you never have kids. In fact, get yourself sterilized.
Posted by Mike Hunt]]> Mon, 27 Jun 2011 19:57:43 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: An Abortion Pledge for the Rest of Us]]>
If you think that people earning minimum wage should have abortions instead of having children, I think our discussion is over. I hope someday you'll pause to consider what a completely morally bankrupt position you have there, but I doubt anything I say would prod you out of it. You already know that people earning this much, or less, go on to have children who are well-loved and provided for. I assume you know about the vast and growing economic inequality in this country, and realize the social consequences your position would have if everyone lived by it. What else do you need to learn? I can't help. Cheers.
Posted by Suzy]]> Mon, 27 Jun 2011 19:26:11 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: An Abortion Pledge for the Rest of Us]]>
The new pledge, which is totally lame and wishy-washy, is not intended as a replacement for the amazing awesome kick-ass other one. It's just another pledge on a different subject.
Posted by BlackRose]]> Mon, 27 Jun 2011 19:23:35 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: An Abortion Pledge for the Rest of Us]]> Posted by maenad69]]> Mon, 27 Jun 2011 19:22:54 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: An Abortion Pledge for the Rest of Us]]> http://blog.spreadingsantorum.com/2011/0…

I pledge the following to the members of the Susan B. Anthony list and the citizens of the United States of America:

1. If I become pregnant and decide that ending the pregnancy is the best course of action, I will have an abortion.

2. I respect every woman's right to a safe and legal abortion, even in situations where I would not abort.

3. If I become pregnant and opt not to have an abortion, I will remember that my choice would have been meaningless without the right to choose and will continue to defend that right.

4. I will support universal access to affordable contraception and accurate sex education, with the full knowledge that it is easier and safer to prevent an unwanted pregnancy than to end one.

5. If I am able, I will donate to Planned Parenthood and/or other organizations that defend a woman's right to choose.
The pledge is currently in the process of being edited to account for feedback. FWIW, I would sign the current pledge without reservation:
Posted by I Hate Screen Names]]> Mon, 27 Jun 2011 19:02:32 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: An Abortion Pledge for the Rest of Us]]>
I don't understand how the original pledge is fanatic or extreme. It doesn't talk about "forcing" anyone to do anything. No one has to sign the pledge, and no woman has to have an abortion or listen to anyone telling her that she should have an abortion.

The rewritten versions of the pledge do not get the same point across, regardless of forcefulness or fanaticism. The main point of the original pledge, as I see it, is that abortion is a legitimate option for birth control, is morally neutral, and should be the preferred choice when someone is pregnant and not in the ideal position to raise a kid.


Posted by BlackRose]]> Mon, 27 Jun 2011 17:37:14 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: An Abortion Pledge for the Rest of Us]]>
If you'd like, I'll adopt your rephrasing: "People should not have kids *until they are* a position to support them." That's all I meant. I wasn't making any statements about class mobility, or why there are poor, or whether or not there is a set of people who will never be able to support kids.

I also think we should live in a society where any adult would have the resources to support children. However, I disagree that having kids is a "right." Creating a new human being is a social action that affects all other human beings who exist, not a right that anyone who is able should be allowed to freely exercise. Society should be able to control and regulate the population size, for the same reason that society should be able to regulate pollution or medical care. Having an abortion is an individual right, because it's a woman controlling her own body. Creating a new human being is not, because it involves another person.

(By the way, thank you for the information and references! Interesting stuff.)
Posted by BlackRose]]> Mon, 27 Jun 2011 17:32:14 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: An Abortion Pledge for the Rest of Us]]> Posted by Soupytwist]]> Mon, 27 Jun 2011 16:46:06 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: An Abortion Pledge for the Rest of Us]]>
1. The third point appears to be missing the word "I": "If become pregnant and opt not to have an abortion..."

2. I understand what you're trying to do with point 5, but I would limit it to the abortion issue. E.g., "I refuse to let a abortion issue, no matter how important to me, define the way I vote." I can think of single issues that would define how I vote. For instance, were I able to vote in 1860, their abolitionist stance would force me to vote exclusively for the Republicans rather than the pro-slavery Democrats.

Ah, how times have changed.
Posted by I Hate Screen Names]]> Mon, 27 Jun 2011 16:20:52 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: An Abortion Pledge for the Rest of Us]]> But other than that, love it. Sorry if it makes you feel like you are an apologist, or are pandering to wimps like me. But on the bright side, this is a pledge that a greater number of people would support. More is better. Thanks for taking input.
Posted by onion]]> Mon, 27 Jun 2011 15:47:53 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: An Abortion Pledge for the Rest of Us]]> Posted by onion]]> Mon, 27 Jun 2011 15:41:15 -0700 The Stranger