http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/12/04/the_news_hole Comments On: The News Hole by Dan Savage en-us Copyright 2009 The Stranger. All rights reserved. This RSS file is offered to individuals, The Stranger readers, and non-commercial organizations only. Any commercial websites wishing to use this RSS file, please contact The Stranger. webmaster@thestranger.com (The Stranger Webmaster) Mon, 23 Nov 2009 00:00:01 -0800 Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:45:00 -0800 Foundation http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss everything, and then all pitch in for a season pass to the ballet for Dan.
Posted by jade]]> Fri, 05 Dec 2008 06:09:13 -0800 The Stranger Posted by willnyc]]> Thu, 04 Dec 2008 22:46:45 -0800 The Stranger Posted by jade]]> Thu, 04 Dec 2008 22:19:38 -0800 The Stranger
I used the word "shit," not because you had written shit, but because anyone stating the attitude that you expressed in your post at 24, would be speaking "shit." And, yeah, I curse like a truck driver. Not very ladylike, true.

I read Dan's post completely differently: a city wanting to be considered "world class" must provide for the arts. This is a true statement, and, I thought, showed that Dan values the arts and views cities that offer operas, ballets, and theatre as "world class."

I interpreted "squeeze subsidies from local governments" as a comment that the public is far too often loathe to give money to the arts (or libraries for that matter), and will usually vote down taxes for art (and library) funding. So art programs often have to "squeeze" every last cent from the local government they can. So they limp along, taking what the public condescends to give and do their best.

New York doesn't have this issue. Neither does my city. But the arts suffer in most cities, especially the small, rural ones. They're usually the first to suffer budget cuts. I would think that Seattle doesn't have this problem. Hence, Dan's mention of the "civic-minded." We, civic-minded art lovers are often what keep the arts afloat in small cities and towns. And public funding is welfare. Very valuable, very needed, very life-enhancing welfare.

So there! That's why I asked. I honestly read Dan's post as a positive representation of the arts as often beleaguered and unappreciated, but beloved by many of us, including himself.

As always, I could be full of shit.
Posted by jade]]> Thu, 04 Dec 2008 22:16:42 -0800 The Stranger see @ 12. he covered these points in a much gentler way.
Posted by willnyc]]> Thu, 04 Dec 2008 22:07:47 -0800 The Stranger Sincerely responding, Dan said: "like theaters and opera houses before them ... squeeze subsidies from local governments, and limp along as charities."
I live in NYC. The Metropolitan Opera is not a charity, nor is the NY Phil or MOMA or the literally scores of arts, music, and dance programs we provide at a world-class level. These performances changes people's lives, and if you don't know that, then there's no way of explaining it. We care about the arts here enough not to let them "squeeze subsidies from local governments" or "limp along as charities." To me, Dan very clearly stated that the arts are a welfare case. Possibly it's different where you are but here in the capitol of the world, to use your elegant phrase, we give a shit. Art matters.
Posted by willnyc]]> Thu, 04 Dec 2008 21:54:00 -0800 The Stranger any of the shit you just accused him of saying? I'm sincerely asking.
Posted by jade]]> Thu, 04 Dec 2008 21:20:43 -0800 The Stranger nytimes.com. Every city has local news and a newspaper that covers local news well should be able to survive in that market. People really do care more about knowing what is going on around them than what is going on far away (though ideally they would like both at a single portal.)
Robert
Posted by Robert]]> Thu, 04 Dec 2008 20:45:49 -0800 The Stranger Posted by willnyc]]> Thu, 04 Dec 2008 20:33:32 -0800 The Stranger You can always read USA Today.

But seriously...

If the Seattle Times and the P-I had two very different points of view, I would say save them both. But having read them both most of my life, mostly on line these last few years, I don't find them different, they even often use identical headlines since most of their National and World news comes from the A.P.

If we want a decent daily paper in Seattle, the two papers should merge and we should keep the best writers and editors of both papers. I would want Nancy Leson of the Times Restaurant review to stay, also Editorial cartoonist David Horsey (I like the way he draws) and I like Jim Moore's sports column in the P-I. I'd like to see Joel Connely disappear or move to the opinion page. Keep the best photographers and young reporters and pink slip the rest (and get a better crossword puzzle, maybe even hire someone good to be the Crossword Puzzle editor. Maybe someday people would want to do the Seattle Times/P-I crossword puzzle as much as the NY Times.
Posted by elswinger]]> Thu, 04 Dec 2008 19:27:59 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Rotten666]]> Thu, 04 Dec 2008 13:55:34 -0800 The Stranger
I thought not.

@5: Those of us with families to support who're being pink-slipped in the middle of a fierce recession, do appreciate having had the opportunity to serve you.
Posted by hippie chimp]]> Thu, 04 Dec 2008 13:16:13 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Helen Thomas]]> Thu, 04 Dec 2008 13:09:19 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Ben Franklin]]> Thu, 04 Dec 2008 13:01:07 -0800 The Stranger
The question is how to make it work financially. The big thing would be to abandon the "family newspaper" model and accept the same kind of vice-ridden advertising that fuels the weekly business model, along with more traditional newspaper advertising. And hell, maybe it's possible to charge a fee if you include a page 3 photo. Basically, this would have to operate under the New York Post/British daily tabloid business model. They're still doing well, aren't they?
Posted by Cascadian]]> Thu, 04 Dec 2008 12:40:49 -0800 The Stranger Free to readers. Gets you picked up. I also bet if they spiced up their papers with some porn ads and profanity, just a little, their ad revenue would climb. Oh, but we don't really want that. Can you imagine The Times competing with The Weekly? They think they're a family paper. Bah!
Posted by Vince]]> Thu, 04 Dec 2008 12:20:01 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Jennifer]]> Thu, 04 Dec 2008 12:07:44 -0800 The Stranger Posted by COMTE]]> Thu, 04 Dec 2008 12:00:45 -0800 The Stranger
Are they as funny as the Daily Show?

If not, why not?

P.S.: If you fire your cartoonist you're not long for this world ...
Posted by Will in Seattle]]> Thu, 04 Dec 2008 11:57:42 -0800 The Stranger NPR works if you keep your brain in a jar of formaldahyde, maybe. The only thing worse that taxpayer subsidized leftwing propaganda masquerading as objective news is really lame drool-dripped taxpayer subsidized leftwing propaganda masquerading as objective news.
Posted by GetReal]]> Thu, 04 Dec 2008 11:42:47 -0800 The Stranger
"One day cities will regard daily papers the same way they regard large rep theaters, symphonies, opera houses, and (ugh) sports franchises—something a city that wants to be considered "world class" just has to have. And daily papers will, like theaters and opera houses before them, convert to non-profits, raise money from the civic-minded, squeeze subsidies from local governments, and limp along as charities, not businesses."

...makes you sound like an idiot, and a particularly anti-philanthropic idiot, which you're not, of course.

All charities are businesses, which exist (some even thrive) because patrons find them good vehicles for community investment.

Also, your statement demonstrates a profound (and generally pervasive) misunderstanding of the extraordinarily potent economic benefits associated with having thriving arts, entertainment and recreational sectors inside major cities. These intuitions aren't feel-good accessories of "world-class" cities, they are drivers of innovation, commerce and, ideally, cultural distinctiveness. They, in part, make cities world-class.

Seattle wasn't world-class when it introduced the Opera, Ballet, and Symphony. As the Opera and Ballet became "world-class" organizations -- the Symphony cannot be said to be "world-class" yet -- Seattle was simultaneously becoming a world-class city.

The causal relationships of these simultaneities are not well understood by economists yet, but even the cursory economic research that has been completed has proven that there are complex and mutually beneficial economic exchanges between arts organizations and the communities they serve.

About newspapers, I know nothing.
Posted by erostratus]]> Thu, 04 Dec 2008 11:39:20 -0800 The Stranger The Onion.
Posted by elenchos]]> Thu, 04 Dec 2008 11:31:29 -0800 The Stranger Posted by tomasyalba]]> Thu, 04 Dec 2008 11:09:00 -0800 The Stranger Newspapers: 0
Posted by Urgutha Forka]]> Thu, 04 Dec 2008 11:02:08 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Balt-O-Matt]]> Thu, 04 Dec 2008 10:46:04 -0800 The Stranger