http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/12/04/who_passed_prop_8 Comments On: Who Passed Prop 8? by Dan Savage en-us Copyright 2009 The Stranger. All rights reserved. This RSS file is offered to individuals, The Stranger readers, and non-commercial organizations only. Any commercial websites wishing to use this RSS file, please contact The Stranger. webmaster@thestranger.com (The Stranger Webmaster) Mon, 23 Nov 2009 00:00:01 -0800 Mon, 23 Nov 2009 09:15:00 -0800 Foundation http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss
That's dishonest and confirms despite the frank talk about his personal life, he's got little integrity where it matters.
Posted by hds]]> Sat, 13 Dec 2008 02:34:16 -0800 The Stranger
And those are CALIFORNIAN Republicans. Chances are, these are more "liberal" Repugs.

82% is a huge number for an election.
Posted by onion]]> Sun, 07 Dec 2008 23:51:21 -0800 The Stranger
"back" = basic

Kind of hard to read my posts "critically" when I don't even proofread my own typos. Sorry about that.
Posted by jade]]> Sat, 06 Dec 2008 16:59:28 -0800 The Stranger
I don't know if it's just shameless intellectual dishonesty or the fact that far too many people lack back critical reading skills.

Either way it's fucking depressing.
Posted by jade]]> Sat, 06 Dec 2008 16:45:03 -0800 The Stranger The masses of black people are not nearly as "homophobic" as some of you think - but black gays have always viewed the white gay male community as patronizing and racist, and these blogs are proof of that!
You certainly wont gain any support from those church people with your negative bigoted racist attitudes!
Posted by ray]]> Sat, 06 Dec 2008 16:13:41 -0800 The Stranger like you, i can't believe these (self-sorted) 'educated' people are confusing 'education' (*and* intelligence) with schooling.

the exit pollsters, according to this excerpt, asked about years/levels of 'schooling' but then replaced - like dan did - the amount of schooling a person suffered directly for 'education' and/or intelligence when they went to analyze this data. here's a news flash: 'dumb' in this usage is more equal to the opposite of 'smart' than it is to the opposite of 'schooled'. didn't know that? how many years of schooling did you get? does your answer mean anything?

who's paying for the schools? and by what means did that school board decide what you were going to be learning while you were there? if you don't know either of those things, you weren't 'educated', you were 'schooled'. and if you DO know those things, you may have been schooled or not, but you didn't necessarily get an education there.

i don't have a college degree. i'm poor as all shit. but i'm not dumb enough to think i would have learned anything the school boards weren't selling ... if i kept paying them money to go there. i live in the ghetto with other poor people, which is a much more diverse crowd than the white educated fuck-heads in the west hills who think their degrees make them smarter than me. there's correlation and causation, and the exit pollsters don't seem to know the difference. wonder what their level of schooling was.

with that out of the way, here's how i can tell the difference between a civil right and a religious tradition, because when you compare the two things directly, it's pretty fucking obvious: religious traditions are created and kept alive because groups of people attending their churches want them to be - whereas civil rights are recognized and honored because the law created by a legislative body somewhere in existence either explicitly says they must be honored - or it doesn't say so. sexual orientation has (fairly recently) changed from being viewed by sober society as a mental illness (who wouldn't feel mentally ill after a lifetime of prosecution for just being who you are?) to being recognized as a benign variation on the normal sexual continuum. now that we're coming into the light, this variation simply needs to be added to the quid pro quos under equal protection. it would be spectacular if we could pass the ERA while we're at it, but i'll try not to get too hopeful.

this whole discussion of who voted which way and why is so useless - why even dissect this? it's a stupid snipe hunt - unless you're only planning to engage the most easily persuade-able 5% who voted against your interests last time, gay-civil-rights organizers. wasn't that the rough margin, 5%? why don't you take the advice @17 there and clarify your message? the protests since 4 november focusing on 'equity' rather than 'this one thing, marriage' have been the most persuasive - mostly because it's clear, simple and accurate. you're not fighting for the right to get married, many gay people are ambivalent about marriage or plain don't care. they *do* care about civil rights, as most of us do. and even (sigh) poor and un-schooled people will understand, sympathize with, and get behind equality than will get behind particular skirmishes like marriage certificates for a group of people they think they don't come into contact with. (most are wrong about not being in contact, but until the average joe and jane Gay finally get fed up and march in the streets *along with* the crazy rainbow-flag-flyers we see every year at pride parades, a lot of people won't be aware that they are voting for and against rights for their neighbors, their co-workers, their mail-carriers and their baristas, their bus drivers, preachers and entertainers.) you're fighting for civil rights, frame it that way. marriage isn't the only thing you're being denied under that banner, it's just the hottest flame on the grill post-prop-8.
Posted by happyhedonist]]> Sat, 06 Dec 2008 13:29:17 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Ouch!]]> Sat, 06 Dec 2008 11:14:35 -0800 The Stranger
oh
Posted by wondering no more..]]> Sat, 06 Dec 2008 10:30:09 -0800 The Stranger
There.

Was I the first to say it? Was I? Was I?
Posted by idaho]]> Fri, 05 Dec 2008 22:44:30 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Ouch!]]> Fri, 05 Dec 2008 21:49:31 -0800 The Stranger What we are taking about is LIBERTY!
Also, divisiveness on this issue has no role on our end. No more name calling, no more singling out one demographic over the next.
We must be positive and show optimism and strength.
We got much to do. No more wussy-whining!!
Posted by CmonPeeps!]]> Fri, 05 Dec 2008 12:51:30 -0800 The Stranger @2: I suppose, H. But that would also mean, then, that gays and lesbians can stop beating ourselves up about lousy outreach to communities of color.... right?

Ah, clever, Savage, but . . . not so fast. Since when does a group have to be the linchpin of an election to be part of an organizing strategy? Don't you actually want to do outreach in black communities because it can -- however incrementally -- build your movement? And what happened to your concern about black gays and lesbians and how much they suffer due to homophobia in black communities and racism in white gay communities. Don't you think more effective outreach might help them feel more comfortable at the intersection? Nice try, but I suggest you try harder. Strive for some intellectual honesty this time.
Posted by Stephanie]]> Fri, 05 Dec 2008 12:40:45 -0800 The Stranger Kind of. We know 61% of self-identified Latinos voted for Prop 8 based on this poll, and 57% of all Latinos, blacks and Asians did. Pre- and post-election polls show Asians voted similarly to whites, which means blacks voted for the measure by about 52-54%. It's consistent with almost all other polling that shows blacks are only a couple percentage points above whites against gay marriage.
Posted by jrrrl]]> Fri, 05 Dec 2008 12:20:24 -0800 The Stranger
IMhumbleO: Now that we are starting to get some better ideas about who voted for Prop 8, we should be busily formulating a plan about what to do NEXT. How do we as a community engage & educate folks who were pro Prop 8? We can't let this issue fade away. People's attention spans are short.

This is clearly a moment of teetering on the edge of massive change. Historically, society resists massive change, even when it is it society's long term interests. People are scared.

But we're more angry. Anger is a 100% necessary & logical response to being crapped on & discriminated against. Fine, we're here, we're queer, give us the damn wedding. As much as we all wrote about, went to & threw our fists up in the air at the protests, let's take that energy to the next step. We've defined who it is who voted against gay marriage. Rather than scream, I think it's much more important to not let the moment pass, & to seize what venues we have to communicate in, to get these folks to see more reason before the next time this comes before a court..or gets voted on. We have a moment to win hearts & minds. Why squander it by pointing more fingers, you know? If people are uneducated, educate them.

Are any of you all going to be doing Day Without a Gay? I haven't seen it discussed too much. It's an event run by jointheimpact, the same folks who were the online force behind those recent protests & marches:

http://daywithoutagay.org/

Only if a massive amount of people participate in this will it has any real financial impact. Especially w/ the economy as tight as it is, surely in the pocketbook is where to hit 'em. & yes, I know..Christmas is only 15 DAYS away..but one day, one day of not buying anything, not even a latté - surely we can all go one day without spending. There's a light up the night event & food drive going on, too:

http://jointheimpact.com/

Whoo, while I'm up here on my soapbox, are you all spending as much time writing/calling you all of your elected representatives, as y'are bitching here & places like it? 'cause I am. Just wrote Governor Patterson yesterday.

*hops down* Ugh, back to woooooork.
Posted by Eva Hopkins]]> Fri, 05 Dec 2008 12:06:06 -0800 The Stranger practically
Posted by does spelling count?]]> Fri, 05 Dec 2008 09:52:24 -0800 The Stranger
Merely Wicked & Monstrously Evil: BFF!!
Posted by jade]]> Fri, 05 Dec 2008 09:32:26 -0800 The Stranger it is merely wicked.
Posted by ;]]]> Fri, 05 Dec 2008 09:14:21 -0800 The Stranger
Its = possessive of "it"
It's = contraction (it is)

Your grammar is monstrously evil.
Posted by jade]]> Fri, 05 Dec 2008 09:11:52 -0800 The Stranger Some choices are wrong.
Some choices are evil.
Killing a child you created because it's existance is inconvenient to you is monstrously evil.
Posted by :(]]> Fri, 05 Dec 2008 09:00:11 -0800 The Stranger that's a good one
Posted by solidarity has its limits]]> Fri, 05 Dec 2008 08:55:51 -0800 The Stranger
I would think if you respect marriage equality, you'd not marry women either, correct?

So! No marriage for you! Right?
Posted by jade]]> Fri, 05 Dec 2008 08:29:47 -0800 The Stranger Let's hear it for marriage equality-
hear! hear!
Everyone should be treated the same when it comes to marriage.
Me and all my buddies, in a show of solidarity with our little lavendar brothers, have sworn not to marry guys, because, you know, you guys can't.
One for all and all for one, I say!
It is a huge sacrifice, but no thanks are needed.
really.
Posted by your best bro]]> Fri, 05 Dec 2008 08:13:01 -0800 The Stranger
1. Have the baby
a. care for it
b. let a relative care for it until some future time when she is able to
c. give the baby up for adoption

2. Have an abortion
Posted by jade]]> Fri, 05 Dec 2008 08:12:13 -0800 The Stranger Let's hear it for choice-
hear! hear!
Women should be free to do what they choose with their bodies.
If they choose to engage in behavior that leaves them pregnant they (and their special friend) need to belly up to the bar and accept the responsibilities that go with their choices.
When a totally innocent human (and a yet to be born child is as innocent as it gets in our species) is slaughtered by it's mother and a physian who is sworn to do no harm then, I agree, it truely is EVIL.
Posted by ResponsibilitiesFollowChoice]]> Fri, 05 Dec 2008 07:50:11 -0800 The Stranger
Hate Brie? I don't get it, but I'll happily serve you smoked Gouda instead.

Fiscal Conservative? I can respect that, though I disagree.

Against Affirmative Action? This is tougher. I'd like to hear your reasons. But I can accept that this is a volatile topic where both sides make valid points.

Against marriage equality? Bush-supporter? Anti-choice? Member of Christian Identity? Peleo-Conservative? For Intelligent Design? You're stupid or evil. Maybe both.
Posted by jade]]> Fri, 05 Dec 2008 07:35:22 -0800 The Stranger