http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/11/26/when_are_your_privately_held Comments On: When Are Your "Privately Held Religious Beliefs" Not So Private Anymore? by Dan Savage en-us Copyright 2009 The Stranger. All rights reserved. This RSS file is offered to individuals, The Stranger readers, and non-commercial organizations only. Any commercial websites wishing to use this RSS file, please contact The Stranger. webmaster@thestranger.com (The Stranger Webmaster) Wed, 25 Nov 2009 00:00:01 -0800 Wed, 25 Nov 2009 05:00:00 -0800 Foundation http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss
I say fine: If absolutely everything is fair game attributable, then by their own logic the "traditional marriage" folks put a 50-year-old gay Salt Lake City man in the hospital this morning with critical head wounds.

Who again is running the campaign of intimidation and violence?
Posted by Mattheww]]> Wed, 03 Dec 2008 18:32:12 -0800 The Stranger Posted by MikeMick]]> Tue, 02 Dec 2008 06:07:37 -0800 The Stranger Bring it on.
As long as you spell the name right.
(which, admittedly,
is sometimes a challenge for your typical
foaming at the corners of the mouth
ranting Mormon hater)
Posted by ...I've Gotta Wear Shades]]> Mon, 01 Dec 2008 07:57:32 -0800 The Stranger
http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2008…

Sociopaths use all manner of rhetoric to divert attention from their operations.
Mormons really hate that a spotlight has been focused on their Occult rituals and practices. Even those that voted for Prop 8 now comprehend that they sided with sleaze because Mormonism is being exposed.

You don't object to putting a little Light on your "secret rituals and occultism, Do you?

The Boycott Utah, Idaho and Mormon Businesses stands!


Posted by Truth]]> Sun, 30 Nov 2008 20:07:32 -0800 The Stranger Does spewing on about Mormons make you feel better?
Is the issue homosexual marriage or have you given up on that.
You are taking your eye off the ball.
If everything you say about Mormons is true is doesn't change anything.
No one said "Vote yes for Prop 8 because the Mormon Church is true"
Mormons are a tiny (1-2%) piece of California and you have lost twice there (as well as everywhere else, where btw there were no Mormons)
Energy spent hating Mormons is wasted energy.
Effort spent demonizing Mormons is wasted effort.
Get a clue.
Don't be a loser forever.
Posted by Consequences]]> Sun, 30 Nov 2008 18:34:05 -0800 The Stranger
Actually Biology is the stake in the heart of homosexuality.
In order to exist an organism must reproduce itself.
Were there in fact a 'homosexual' condition the defining characteristic of it would be inability to reproduce.
Fatal flaw, dead-end genetic DEFECT.
Darwin would be displeased.
There is no homosexual condition; it is a behavior choice.
'Homosexuals' can reproduce as well as anyone else.
Homosexuality is something people do, not what they are.

It is a behavior choice with social consequences.
Successful child rearing is tough under the best of conditions and far too little of it happens in our society.
The 'family' needs all the help it can get.
Why give legal sanction and equality to a competing social model?
It is a fatuous indulgence we can not afford.
Commit those resources to more responsible parenting so there are not so many kids in need of parents.

Sure, homosexuals can get and raise kids, but to do so they must imitate heterosexual institutions and practices- why should society subsidize cheap second rate knock-offs?
Turning kids who have no vote in the matter over to be raised by homosexuals just so they can feel better about their lifestyle choices is cruelly unfair.
Get a puppy if you want something to raise.

You may say the world is going to hell anyway so societal suicide by homosexuality is not a big deal
but if that is the homosexual communities position
truth in advertising would suggest we discuss it openly the next time there is a referendum.
Posted by Your Name Here]]> Sun, 30 Nov 2008 18:26:23 -0800 The Stranger http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetics_an…

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Do_Mormons_bel…

http://www.mediamatic.net/page/5674/en

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism_for…

http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/maso…
Posted by Truth]]> Sun, 30 Nov 2008 17:36:08 -0800 The Stranger
do you mean produce like a production line? like humans are machines who churn babies out? or do you mean like raising, nuturing, etc? the concept of parenthood may not be so black and white anymore. allow me to add a heterosexual anecdote to throw a wrench in your arguement: a man and a woman have sex, yet the woman is married to another man. shw gives birth to a child that is not her husband's, but they continue to raise the child as if they were his own. it doesn't matter if the husband knows or not, the world keeps on turning, the child has a set of parents, despite not having been produced by both of them.

now let's turn to the fact that lesbian couples have done in-vitro fertilization, while gay men occasionally use surrogates, not to mention both parties do adopt where it's legal to do so. in that case, yeah I've seen a homosexual couple produce a child. while that may defy natural law, so do boob jobs, the internet and life support.

I see what you're trying to do here. you are making attempting to make a rational arguement against homosexuality using "science" and "history" instead of religious malarkey to show that there are reasons to oppose gay marriage that are secular too. the problem is that you are wrong. and the best part is that you know you are wrong, which is why you have to use language coding homosexuality as some kind of plague.

you say that embracing the gay population is the downfall of our society, that it has led to the ruin of other past civilizations, but that ignores the myraid other factors that contribute to such an end. in our society, we've also gone to great lenghts to make equal opportunities for women, to destigmatize racial intermixing. those are also factors you could just as easily point to. but since you are focusing on homosexuals, let me just say, right know, we should be thanking the gays, not blaming them.

you are partially correct about an increased gay population being a dead-end. usually it comes hand in hand when a general population grows too large, and in this case it could not be more true, seeing how by the end of this decade there will almost 7 billion people on the planet. natural resources are getting tighter, the environment has hit critical mass, and to top it off, people are living longer. now a group of people are growing in numbers and in voice who do not procreate, but can do one thing that we need: give a home to all the children who do not have them. and it'd be a damn cynical thing to deny them the opportunity to do so, simply because nature designated their genes for a protection against overpopulation. likewise, it'd be cynical to argue that if the planet is in such dire need, fuck the kids who don't have homes or families. you should be arguing in favor of a wider euthanasia then.

in one of your posts, you already resigned to the idea that gays will most likely achieve the right to marry soon. maybe now that you admit it, you should stop seeing it as a defeat and get over yourself. on a long enough time line we're all doomed, the question is, where are you going to stand when history looks back at you? are you going to say "I kept telling people no, no, no and I lived a life of little joy" or are you going to shrug your shoulders saying "ehh, I wonder how bad this week's episode of Heroes is going to suck". it's not apathy, it's just knowing when to shut up.
Posted by Lee]]> Sun, 30 Nov 2008 16:34:05 -0800 The Stranger
That's what I thought. No evidence. Nice fake stats though.
Posted by Yeek]]> Sun, 30 Nov 2008 16:11:50 -0800 The Stranger Heaven's above and hell' below except Mormons that can buy their way into a better heaven.
Mormons are indoctrinated that If they are really good Mormons and gives lots of money to Mormon Central they will get to be the Jesus, the Emperor, the Dictator of another planet.
Mormons as well as all other Cults including their beloved GOP are Biochemical Misfits, these Psychotics think in terms of one dimensional cognition and as a result their Bipolar Affective Disorder has turned this world into a Cesspool. All to satisfy their Schizophrenic Delusions.
All Your Cult Dogma is an Oxymoron, Get Help!
Posted by Truth]]> Sun, 30 Nov 2008 15:00:28 -0800 The Stranger
It's called Prop 8 being passed

Posted by goonybird]]> Sun, 30 Nov 2008 12:28:07 -0800 The Stranger
any examples?

ever seen a homosexual couple produce a child?
Posted by ?]]> Sun, 30 Nov 2008 10:48:12 -0800 The Stranger
Any evidence?
Posted by Yeek]]> Sun, 30 Nov 2008 10:20:45 -0800 The Stranger
does your God hate Mormons?
Posted by Your Name Here]]> Sat, 29 Nov 2008 21:31:06 -0800 The Stranger Ah- a jackass that types!

Kindly offer some examples of any civilizations that continued forever.
Better yet, kindly offer examples of any civilization based on homosexuality.....none?
Perhaps because homosexuality is a dead-end indulgence that already prosperous societies can only endure in small doses. A parasitic fungus that saps vitality (in the literal sense of the word) and eventually kills if it grows large enough.
The basic requirement for a society (or species) to survive is the ability to reproduce, to produce competent functional adults. Homosexuals by definition would not participate in that vital function. A society might tolerate 2% homosexuals, start to show strain at 10%. Could a society maintain itself if 50% were homosexual? Demographers will tell you it could not. If it grows large enough it kills the host organism.
Posted by Read'emAndWeep]]> Sat, 29 Nov 2008 21:29:36 -0800 The Stranger
When your God hates the same people that you do, you know that you have succeeded in creating him in your own image.
Posted by CHAS]]> Sat, 29 Nov 2008 21:15:52 -0800 The Stranger Homosexuality is a dead-end indulgence that prosperous societies can survive in small doses. The more extensively it infests a society the weaker that civilization becomes, and proliferation of homosexuality is a hallmark of civilizations on the brink of extinction.

Oh, brother. Look, a student of pretend history! Kindly offer some counterexamples, of civilizations that didn't tolerate homosexuality and continued forever.
Posted by flamingbanjo]]> Sat, 29 Nov 2008 19:14:50 -0800 The Stranger The 'family' (man-woman and kids; for the clueless) is the best (and only dependable) way to do that.
Homosexuality is a dead-end indulgence that prosperous societies can survive in small doses.
The more extensively it infests a society the weaker that civilization becomes, and proliferation of homosexuality is a hallmark of civilizations on the brink of extinction.
Our society probably will legalize homosexual marriage in the near future, Mormons and Prop 8 not withstanding.
Our society is also just a couple more swirls around the bowl from the bottom of the crapper.
eat, drink and be merry
Posted by JustTheFacts,Ma'am]]> Sat, 29 Nov 2008 16:49:36 -0800 The Stranger http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_marri…

I would venture to say that there is one other very old tradition that this nation overturned once before. In both the Old and New testament, in the Koran, in the Torah, are clear passages stating that women should not hold authority over men and were to be 'ruled' by husbands.

And it wasn't just a religious tradition. It was a cultural tradition as well. The Greeks, the Romans, the Egyptians, the Europeans, the dynastic Chinese, the Aztecs, the Incas....in every civilization in every inhabited continent for all of known human history, women existed without the same rights as men - sometimes with no rights. There were very few exceptions.

Finally, in 1898 in New Zeland (and 1920 in the US) women were given the right to vote. How dare we? Where did we get the right to defy thousands of years of religious, scriptural, and cultural tradition?

It's simple: as much as we owe the ancients, we are better than they were. It's our world now. Civilization is not about stasis - it is about change.
Posted by Yeek]]> Sat, 29 Nov 2008 16:36:25 -0800 The Stranger sad, sad, bitter little boys
Posted by KeepYourEyeOnTheBall,Chuckles!]]> Sat, 29 Nov 2008 16:34:52 -0800 The Stranger

That is the goal "Mormonism, Extinct Cult, do to inbreeding psychosis, Alex"
Posted by Truth]]> Sat, 29 Nov 2008 16:26:34 -0800 The Stranger
"Extinct Civilizations" for $1000, Alex

nice choice of role models.
no wonder you guys lost Prop 8.
Posted by You'reKidding,Right?]]> Sat, 29 Nov 2008 15:17:42 -0800 The Stranger
You were saying?
Posted by Donolectic]]> Sat, 29 Nov 2008 15:09:57 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Get.A.Clue]]> Sat, 29 Nov 2008 11:50:23 -0800 The Stranger the definition and meaning of marriage has wiggled all over the place in the last 10,000 years. i'm sure you could find countless versions of marriage in that time span. marriage is not a consistent ideology.

and by no means has it consistently been between "one man and one woman."
Posted by onion]]> Sat, 29 Nov 2008 10:36:42 -0800 The Stranger