Comments On: The Education of John Fay by Christopher Frizzelle

Re: The Education of John Fay

Andi — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 23:25:18 -0800

Christopher, the school has something like 27,000 students. It's crawling with just about everything, regardless of what you selectively remember.
Posted by Andi

Re: The Education of John Fay

TypewriterLady — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:33:10 -0800

I'd like to write an Editorial for the paper. That means I get to make up all the facts as I go, right? Fun!!
Now..where'd I leave that monkey...
Posted by TypewriterLady

Re: The Education of John Fay

Brian — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:12:37 -0800

If I had a dollar for every time Frizzelle quoted The New Yorker...
Posted by Brian

Re: The Education of John Fay

Jude Fawley — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 14:45:57 -0800

Today, we are all dawgs, or something.
Posted by Jude Fawley

Re: The Education of John Fay

back at uw after 3.75 years — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 13:54:45 -0800

@21 it's pretty awful
Posted by back at uw after 3.75 years

Re: The Education of John Fay

Tue, 25 Nov 2008 13:42:35 -0800

From Fay's story: "Now, I realize the gay marriage issue surrounding the California voters� decision on Proposition 8 is extremely emotional for a lot of people, and I respect their difference of opinion, but let us try and consider the vote from a rational basis."

Fuck you, kid. The only reason you respect anyone's difference of opinion is because you're on the side that's currently "winning." When the tides turn, you'll become just as vile and disgusting as the people who passed Prop 8, you condescending little prick.

The fact that he says Colbert is his hero and then goes on to spew a bunch of right wing bullshit shows just how clueless this little fucker is.
Posted by T

Re: The Education of John Fay

Vince — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 13:03:39 -0800

Selective "Christian" memory and twisting historical facts to fit some self righteous view. Don't look to people like this for reason. It is completely absent. They just don't believe in secular government and they had better be stopped or they will destroy freedom the way their religion always has. The Founders saw this and wrote seperation of church and state into The Constitution. That much cannot be denied.
Posted by Vince

Re: The Education of John Fay

none — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 13:00:01 -0800

John Brownfield Fay; 206 522-8339
Senior, History
johnfay@u.washington.edu
Posted by none

Re: The Education of John Fay

The Peanut Gallery — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 12:33:13 -0800

The huskies write as good as they play football.

GO COUGS!!!
Posted by The Peanut Gallery

Re: The Education of John Fay

Urgutha Forka — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 12:11:03 -0800

@16 My thoughts exactly. Rational arguments are pointless. They will only repeat the same mantra over and over "the bible says, the bible says, the bible says, ad nauseum"
There must be some other way to convince them.
Posted by Urgutha Forka

Re: The Education of John Fay

Sara J — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 12:09:17 -0800

Next time someone tells you that their religion (typically Christianity) predates state-sanctioned marriage, you might want to remind them that Christianity is a relatively *new* religion...or don't they know what BC and AD traditionally stand for?

And, lest they get a bit historically confused, 2000 years ago was nearing the height of the Roman Empire, which had their own ideas about marriage (relatively progressive, I might add). Before them, the Greeks, who also married each other. Gosh darn it if you want to get technical, even Abraham had a wife (Sarah? Anyone?) and since he was the *founder* of Judaism (and thereby Christianity, and let's not forget Ishmael and Islam) the practice of taking a spouse obviously pre-dates all of them as well!

So, I guess we should go back to the marriage practices of Ur of Chaldea...think that would be "traditional" enough for the bigots?
Posted by Sara J

Re: The Education of John Fay

mcFly — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 12:07:34 -0800

I suppose the part that bothers me most is the statement "overturning a tradition that has been in place for 2,000 years."

A lot of people lived before that and were married. (Heck, even Saint Peter was married before he was a Christian.)

We sometimes forget that 1st century Palestine was about as important as Alabama in the Roman world. Total backwater on the way to Persia and Egypt (though they had some nice beaches)

Also, @ 24, that wasn't Jesus who said that, it was Paul (and prolly not Paul, but someone who wrote in his name)
Posted by mcFly

Re: The Education of John Fay

onion — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 11:57:19 -0800

The Daily also printed a well-written anti Prop 8 piece in the same issue - please visit it and if you agree with it, give it positive feedback!

http://dailyuw.com/2008/11/25/propositio…
Posted by onion

Re: The Education of John Fay

jrrrl — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 11:50:26 -0800

Jesus (New Testament) on marriage & divorce:

Are you married? Do not seek a divorce. Are you unmarried? Do not look for a wife.

Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

And we know all about what God thinks of adultery:

You shall not commit adultery.

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.

Jesus on women:

I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes.

A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.

But, for some reason, John Fay only likes one bible passage, even if he ignores the half that says God created gays.

God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another... Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

Posted by jrrrl

Re: The Education of John Fay

elswinger — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 11:46:08 -0800

Daniel, The Help Wanted section and the ads are the only thing worth reading in The Daily. Also, maybe, the sports section and the stuff they rip off from the A.P.

But ever since the Daily used its April Fools issue to make fun of serial rape at The Evergreen State College (my alma mater) I have had zero respect for them.

Congratulations on finding a job, but that ad could have, and probably was posted, in the Stranger.
Posted by elswinger

Re: The Education of John Fay

Lara — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 11:45:38 -0800

@10. The number listed is for The Daily, not for Fay. The only way to get them to think about their content is to tell them what you think. Otherwise you're just sitting and bitching, a popular but not very productive pasttime.
Posted by Lara

Re: The Education of John Fay

Christopher Frizzelle — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 11:43:32 -0800

@13 -- Semantically, "Go dawgs" isn't condescending in and of itself. It's a cheer. But you're right, my intention wasn't entirely cheerful. UW was crawling with anti-gay evangelical righteousness when I went to school there. The trend seems to endure.
Posted by Christopher Frizzelle

Re: The Education of John Fay

Enigma — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 11:40:27 -0800

Come now, Christopher. Like bigots ever let facts get in the way of their emotional temper tantrums. They want to pick on someone. It's no longer okay to pick on someone cause of skin color, gays are all they have left.
Posted by Enigma

Re: The Education of John Fay

Bellevue Ave — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 11:37:40 -0800

@14, seems like a problem of the leftist students attending too many "capitalism in trouble?" rallies to be bothered to write for the Daily.
Posted by Bellevue Ave

Re: The Education of John Fay

UNPAID COMMENTER — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 11:36:57 -0800

Glad to see SOMEONE is pointing out the lack of religion in the origin of marriage... which seems like it would be obvious, seeing as marriage crosses most all religious, economic, and geographic borders.

Posted by UNPAID COMMENTER

Re: The Education of John Fay

Lumpmoose — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 11:33:52 -0800

Star Tribune's primary Sunday opinion piece did an excellent job comparing the history of marriage with the current same-sex marriage debate: http://www.startribune.com/opinion/comme…
Posted by Lumpmoose

Re: The Education of John Fay

Original Andrew — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 11:33:00 -0800

Look, John Fay�s op-ed piece may seem simplistic and borderline idiotic to an informed and rational person, but we have to realize and accept that this is how most Americans think.

There�s a reason that all of the op-eds, books and essays by today�s American conservatives sound like they were written by mental patients or 12 year-olds in fundamentalist Sunday School. These people read the Bible and think it makes sense, for fuck�s sake.

Unfortunately, our society is characterized by a near total lack of empathy, social intelligence and basic reasoning skills. If we�re going to make any progress with people like John Fay, we have to dumb-down our message to a level that they understand. We can�t make grand arguments about constitutional rights or historical legacies with people who have no comprehension of these concepts. If anything, they�re impervious to logic and intellectual persuasion since much of their worldview is shaped by religion-based sexual hysteria.

My best guess is that an approach based on individuality, testimonials and personal freedom may work, but this is obviously going to be a very long process.

Posted by Original Andrew

Re: The Education of John Fay

Will in Seattle — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 11:30:39 -0800

Pretty much all of us here at the UW are laughing at his "editorial" and how clueless he is.

It's as if the lunatics who couldn't write their way out of a paper bag all escaped and started running the zoo - so far as any of the readers of the Daily can tell ...
Posted by Will in Seattle

Re: The Education of John Fay

hahnsolo — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 11:29:04 -0800

The Daily has lost all journalistic integrity with this coming year, with an all new green staff. That leans REPUBLICAN. IN SEATTLE. AT UNIVERSITY OF WASHINGTON!. They are worse than fluff and irrelevant. They are an insult to intelligence. For shame.

I am an '08 undergrad. I remember when The Daily was at least kind of relevant.
Posted by hahnsolo

Re: The Education of John Fay

Andi — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 11:26:51 -0800

"Go dawgs." is incredibly condescending in and of itself, Frizzelle. As though we can all be lumped together with this guy. As though you are not a Dawg yourself.

OH RIGHT, you never finished your degree at the University of Washington.

But your points are otherwise well made.
Posted by Andi