Comments On: Bike Lanes Proposed On Fauntleroy: Will Hell Break Loose? by Erica C. Barnett

Re: Bike Lanes Proposed On Fauntleroy: Will Hell Break Loose?

ivan — Thu, 27 Nov 2008 07:48:33 -0800

I don't have to call anybody an asshole -- even when it fits -- to point out that all projections for this area show more, not fewer, people will be living here over the next 10-20 years and more, not fewer, cars will be using this arterial.

That means more apartments. more condos, more people, more buses, and -- whether anyone likes it or not -- more cars, and more trucks to deliver goods and services to all those additional residents and employees.

Washington State Ferries has already said the Southworth ferry traffic will NOT be going downtown to Colman Dock, and that instead one dedicated ferry will connect Southworth with Fauntleroy. That means an entire ferry will be discharging Kitsap County cars and vanpools onto Fauntleroy Way SW.

Does anyone want to bring back the Monorail? I sure as hell do, and I curse every son of a bitch who scuttled it. But until such time, let's not pretend that this magic, sacrosanct 20,000-vehicle figure won't be blown sky-high pretty damn quick on Fauntleroy. If a "road diet" doesn't being intolerable delays immediately, it will bring them pretty damn soon thereafter.

It's a dumb, irresponsible plan. It should die a quick, unmerciful death, with extreme prejudice.

Posted by ivan

Re: Bike Lanes Proposed On Fauntleroy: Will Hell Break Loose?

daniel — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 18:27:45 -0800

Charlie Chong just has a very racist sounding name.
Posted by daniel

Re: Bike Lanes Proposed On Fauntleroy: Will Hell Break Loose?

westside — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 14:51:09 -0800

Mr. X--fair enough. I don't think I told you to STFU, but my tone could have been more inclusive. Have a Happy Thanksgiving and I will see you on future threads.

BTW--where the hell is Ivan? He hasn't called anybody an asshole for days now...
Posted by westside

Re: Bike Lanes Proposed On Fauntleroy: Will Hell Break Loose?

Dan — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 14:48:35 -0800

I stand corrected. After I thought I'd done my research I found information that shows the flow to be about 18,000-19,000/day (still < 20,000 but close to the limit). I still think a road diet can be successful on the street. Sorry about the mistake.
Posted by Dan

Re: Bike Lanes Proposed On Fauntleroy: Will Hell Break Loose?

Dan — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 14:36:53 -0800

Although it is counter-intuitive, the logic behind a road diet is sound. On the surface, it would seem that removing half the lanes would double the congestion, but this would only be true if the lanes were 100% utilized all the time. Although this may be true for some streets, it has been shown that road diets can be successful on streets carrying up to 20,000 vehicles per day. The affected area sees between 9,000-10,000 vehicles per week day�well under this limit.

By providing the left turn lane, conflicts between thru traffic and turns is eliminated�improving flow. Providing more maneuvering room for bicycles allows vehicles to pass safely without having to change lanes. Pedestrians only have to deal with two lanes of thru traffic instead of four. Traffic flow is more uniform and speeding is reduced.

The current four lane configuration may be good for motorists, but if we can improve conditions for pedestrians, bicyclist and the neighborhood (reduced speeding through the area) without significant adverse affect on traffic why not do it?

To those of you asserting that there is no justification for improving conditions for bicyclists--motor vehicles do not have a superior right to the road in Washington. Where they are allowed (and they ARE allowed on Fauntleroy regardless of whether bike lanes are added), bicycles have the same right to travel in the rightmost thru lane as a car and can take as much of the lane as needed to be safe.

Posted by Dan

Re: Bike Lanes Proposed On Fauntleroy: Will Hell Break Loose?

Mr. X — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 12:17:41 -0800

I certainly agree there is a diversity of opinion in WS.

It might behoove you to recall that you're the one who started this argument when you essentially told me to STFU, because I obviously can't know anything about WS since I don't currently live there.

See you on the next thread....

Posted by Mr. X

Re: Bike Lanes Proposed On Fauntleroy: Will Hell Break Loose?

westside — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 11:27:03 -0800

Hey Mr. X--you have taken great pains to prove yourself more West Seattle than me. You win Mr. U-District guy, you truly are more "westside".

I never claimed to represent the majority view in West Seattle. My only claim was that there are an increasing diversity of opinions on the viaduct and on restriping Fauntleroy in West Seattle. My hope would be that the city listens to all opinions. If you are right and the public opposes this change, so be it.

You are the one with the bullying monolithic view of what is best for West Seattle. I am merely adding my voice to the debate.

Posted by westside

Re: Bike Lanes Proposed On Fauntleroy: Will Hell Break Loose?

Mr. X — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 00:55:04 -0800

...oh, and at the risk of being presumptuous let me guess, you and everyone in your West Seattle social circle thinks that instituting paid parking in the Junction is a great idea too, right?

Posted by Mr. X

Re: Bike Lanes Proposed On Fauntleroy: Will Hell Break Loose?

Mr. X — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 00:21:55 -0800

@55-56,

We wound up on the elevated replacement for the AWV because I was pointing out that you were just as out-of-touch with the average West Seattle resident on that issue in very recent SLOG post as you are on popular support for a so-called "road diet" on Fauntleroy.

With regard to the casting aspersions part of your post, I most recently didn't move back to West Seattle because I work in NE Seattle and getting to and from WS is hard enough even with the AWV up and running, let alone if it is torn down and not replaced. (Oddly enough, one of the few other band members at tonight's rehearsal who doesn't live in WS was talking - unsolicited by me - about how he and his wife were considering moving to WS from Phinney Ridge because so many of their friends live there, but that they probably wouldn't just for this reason.)

My West Seattle friends (and yeah, there are dozens and dozens of them) are mostly between their mid 20's to their mid 40's. Some have lived in West Seattle for all of their lives, but a lot of them have moved there much more recently (including more than a few couples, some with kids). For the most part, they are blue collar working-class folks, musicians, artists, teachers, government employees, contractors, developers, and - yes - even "young professionals." So you just keep on telling yourself that your view is the majority one in West Seattle, Mr. "westside."

Back on topic, the more interesting question is whether SDOT will change their Fauntleroy plans in the face of significant public opposition if that emerges at the Monday hearing or in written comments to the Council (this is a funny thing about the public process - it is at least theoretically supposed to have a significant influence on the outcome).

If SDOT's recent initiative to impose paid parking and a new RPZ in Fremont over massive public opposition is any indication, I wouldn't hold my breath on public comment that raises questions or concerns making much - if any - difference in this project, either.

Posted by Mr. X

Re: Bike Lanes Proposed On Fauntleroy: Will Hell Break Loose?

asdf — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 20:57:04 -0800

@33, 34

well the bikers should actually stop at intersections while on the sidewalk, thats what i do. i dont cross til it's safe, it doesnt matter who has the fucking right of way if it isnt safe

i guess i'm too common sense for most people
Posted by asdf

Re: Bike Lanes Proposed On Fauntleroy: Will Hell Break Loose?

Dawgson — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 17:05:07 -0800

westside: The phrase "young professionals" has a lot of baggage attached to it. I've seen many a condo ad that says "perfect for young professionals." "Young families" might have been a better choice of words or even "younger people."

But, you're right, criticizing grammar on blogs is a waste of time. Mine generally stinks.

You couldn't pay me to live in West Seattle -- and I was briefly paid to live there, so I can say this with some authority. It just feels so remote and suburban.

Posted by Dawgson

Re: Bike Lanes Proposed On Fauntleroy: Will Hell Break Loose?

westside — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 16:54:50 -0800

One last comment for now--IT IS JUST PAINT. If we tried this and it didn't work, we could just go back to the way it is now. There is no risk to this at all.
Posted by westside

Re: Bike Lanes Proposed On Fauntleroy: Will Hell Break Loose?

westside — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 16:51:07 -0800

Mr X @ 47

Road diets are safer for cars as well as pedestrians and bikers. The idea is a complete street that works for bikes, pedestrians, the neighborhood, and CARS. Not just a street that works for people who drive everywhere. Here are a few links:

http://www.smartgrowthonlineaudio.org/np…

http://egov.oregon.gov/ODOT/TD/TP_RES/do…

Posted by westside

Re: Bike Lanes Proposed On Fauntleroy: Will Hell Break Loose?

westside — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 16:43:58 -0800

Mr. X @ 36 & 38:

I am not sure how you got on the elevated subject--I didn't bring it up here.

You drive out to West Seattle four times a week and most of your friends live there? Hey, Mr. X--you could move here and save time and gas...

I have lived here for 15 years, some of my family for almost 50. Unlike you, apparently, I have all kinds of West Seattle friends. Crazy retrofit people, elevated lovers, tunnel advocates, and surface optioneers.

To illustrate the West Seattle vote you trumpet a ballot measure in March with two goofy vague choices and only 20% of the electorate voting. Special elections like this typically skew older and more conservative. Perhaps that is who your friends are.

Posted by westside

Re: Bike Lanes Proposed On Fauntleroy: Will Hell Break Loose?

westside — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 16:27:24 -0800

@ 53

I certainly didn't mean to offend, I was simply referring to a popular, and populist, school of thought represented by the late West Seattleite Charlie Chong. One that many Northenders who never visit still believe is the predominant school of thought out here.

But, hey, editing on blog posts is somewhat futile. Reread your own last post and tell me if it makes grammatical sense.

I will have to ponder the phrase "gentrifying douche". For someone so upset by my choice of words it seems a little out of character. I was merely pointing out that more and more young couples are moving to WS. Visit any grocery store or restaurant and look around and you will see them.
Posted by westside

Re: Bike Lanes Proposed On Fauntleroy: Will Hell Break Loose?

Dawgson — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 16:03:14 -0800

@51: I simply meant that should could have phrased that much much better. "Charlie Chong Land" sounds a little odd to people who aren't in the know.

"It's no longer prone to the same Charlie Chong style politics it was years ago." Would have been much better.

Also, anyone who references "young professionals" automatically sounds like a gentrifying douche.

No offense.
Posted by Dawgson

Re: Bike Lanes Proposed On Fauntleroy: Will Hell Break Loose?

Tracy @ WSB — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 14:53:36 -0800

Just saw this. Yet more discussion (I agree that the "apoplectic" is a little hyperbolic) ensued in our meatier followup the next day, in which we did Q/A with the guy who will make the final recommendation to SDOT brass:
http://westseattleblog.com/blog/?p=11898
Other followups ensued (we first reported this proposal 11 days ago) including the fact that Morgan Junction neighborhood stakeholders voted down a similar proposal while crafting their neighborhood plan in 1998.
Posted by Tracy @ WSB

Re: Bike Lanes Proposed On Fauntleroy: Will Hell Break Loose?

PC — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 14:49:46 -0800

@43: It is not racist to use Charlie Chong's name simply because it is not of European extraction. Sheesh. He was elected to the City Council because he was apotheosis of West Seattle secessionist anger. It would in fact be racist to shy away from his connection to the issue merely because his name sounds funny to you.
Posted by PC

Re: Bike Lanes Proposed On Fauntleroy: Will Hell Break Loose?

Mr. X — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 13:46:27 -0800

...I'll grant that, though removing crosswalks citywide probably makes everything else the City is doing a net negative....

Posted by Mr. X

Re: Bike Lanes Proposed On Fauntleroy: Will Hell Break Loose?

DOUG. — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 13:08:38 -0800

Mr. X @47: Safer for pedestrians as well.
Posted by DOUG.

Re: Bike Lanes Proposed On Fauntleroy: Will Hell Break Loose?

nickster — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 11:51:59 -0800

The death of our urban car culture will be long, slow, and painful, but oh so satisfying.
Posted by nickster

Re: Bike Lanes Proposed On Fauntleroy: Will Hell Break Loose?

Mr. X — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 11:47:14 -0800

@44,

"Road diets" only make roads efficient and safer for one set of users (and marginally, at that) - bicyclists.

You know, those 3 percenters?

Posted by Mr. X

Re: Bike Lanes Proposed On Fauntleroy: Will Hell Break Loose?

Dawgson — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 11:24:40 -0800

@44: Do you really think messages about "the greatest good" really influence people? If you want to change the world you have to show how it will benefit the individual.
Posted by Dawgson

Re: Bike Lanes Proposed On Fauntleroy: Will Hell Break Loose?

Bellevue Ave — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 11:20:57 -0800

@44, why not just throw down random spike strips for cars for the greatest good?
Posted by Bellevue Ave

Re: Bike Lanes Proposed On Fauntleroy: Will Hell Break Loose?

nickster — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 11:01:01 -0800

@42 getting you out of your car is the greatest good for the greatest number. And making it less convenient to drive a car and safer and more efficient to get around by bicycle, scooter, motorcyle, and mass transit goes hand in hand with road diets.

Get out of your car, for the sake of the greatest good, and all that...
Posted by nickster