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      <title>Comments On: Project Runway
    
      by Dan Savage</title>
      <link>http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/11/20/project_runway</link>
      <atom:link href="http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Rss.xml?oid=773484&amp;id=comments" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />      <description>Comments On: Project Runway
    
      by Dan Savage</description>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Project Runway]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/11/20/project_runway/#774859]]></link>
    
    <guid isPermaLink="true"><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/11/20/project_runway/#774859]]></guid>
    <author><![CDATA[rafael]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[There are 10 officially designated high speed rail corridors in the US. By definition, that means speeds of at least 110mph, which implies dual track, adequate bypass tracks and dispatch priority for passenger trains (or dedicated passenger tracks).<br />
<br />
Eugene to Vancouver, BC is one of the designated HSR corridors. The section between Eugene and Sacramento is not.<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.fra.dot.gov/us/content/203">http://www.fra.dot.gov/us/content/203</a><br />
<br />
The Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) has published rules regarding level crossings and associated quiet zones that you should consider before arguing that only true bullet trains will do. What makes sense in Japan, France, Spain, the Northeast and California may not in the less densely populated Northwest or Midwest.<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.fra.dot.gov/us/content/217">http://www.fra.dot.gov/us/content/217</a><br />
<a href="http://www.fra.dot.gov/us/content/1318">http://www.fra.dot.gov/us/content/1318</a><br />
<br />
If tracks are shared with freight or commuter trains using FRA-compliant equipment, then in principle the high-speed trainsets must also be FRA-compliant. The rules relate primarily to passive crash safety and mean that US passenger trains must be much heavier than those elsewhere in the world. The Talgo trains plying the Pacific Northwest corridor today are an exception that was grandfathered in before the rules were tightened. Even so, the first and last car of these trains must remain empty.<br />
<br />
Adding weight is particularly problematic in the context of active tilt trains, which are employed on fairly winding legacy tracks to ensure passenger comfort, cp the cautionary tale of the Amtrak Acela Express in the NEC.<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.ebbc.org/rail/fra.html">http://www.ebbc.org/rail/fra.html</a><br />
<br />
FRA restrictions on using off-the-shelf HSR train technology that complies with international standards are a major reason for the decision to rely on all-new track in California. Note that Caltrain, a commuter rail operator in the SF peninsula, has done crash simulations of the crash behavior of compliant and non-compliant equipment in grade crossing accidents in an effort to obtain a waiver for migrating its fleet to European EMU equipment after electrification. Crashes between trains at even moderate relative speeds are extremely dangerous to any people on board, so they must be avoided with appropriate signaling and train control technology.<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.caltrain.com/pdf/project2025/Interim_Report_on_Mixed_Traffic_March-2008.pdf">http://www.caltrain.com/pdf/project2025/&hellip;</a><br />
<br />
(see appendix C)<br />
<br />
-----<br />
<br />
The Pacific Northwest corridor is eligible in principle for a slice of the $1.5 billion in HSR funds allocated in HR 2095, which Pres. Bush recently signed into law. Obviously, any tracks north of the border would have to be funded by the Canadians and, there would have to be immigration posts at the stations, unless a way can be found to deal with that while the trains are moving.<br />
<br />
This bill also allocates some funds for improving the safety of rail operations, e.g. positive train control upgrades. This technology will now be mandatory on selected portions of the US rail network by 2015.<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-2095">http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd&hellip;</a><br />
<br />
The Pacific Northwest corridor might also be eligible for additional HSR funding if a bipartisan bill introduced by Sen. Kerry (D-MA) and Sen. Specter (R-PA) ends up becoming law.<br />
<br />
<a href="http://kerry.senate.gov/cfm/record.cfm?id=305116">http://kerry.senate.gov/cfm/record.cfm?i&hellip;</a>
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by rafael]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 06:53:07 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Project Runway]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/11/20/project_runway/#774503]]></link>
    
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    <author><![CDATA[Derek]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[What this, while going into pros/cons on rail verse airports, no one has even touched on the subject of opening one of the other large airfields for air travel?  How about rather than further expand SeaTac, King County Airport is opened up, or even better a terminal is added up in Everett?<br />
<br />
I'm all for rail, but if there is a big argument concerning airport capacity, and people are so heavily invested in the concept, why does SeaTac's monopoly continue unchecked, especially when this area has no shortage of suitable fields?
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Derek]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 17:40:53 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Project Runway]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/11/20/project_runway/#774244]]></link>
    
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    <author><![CDATA[Reverse Polarity]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[High speed trains over modest distances not only save on flights, but on road trips too. <br />
<br />
Right now, because of the lines for security, it is actually faster and cheaper to drive from Seattle to Portland than to fly. Same for Seattle to Vancouver BC. That is the primary reason you don't see very many flights between these 3 cities. <br />
<br />
If you did a high speed train from Vancouver BC to Seattle to Portland, you'd take a huge load off of I-5, as well as the airports.
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Reverse Polarity]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:29:38 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Project Runway]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/11/20/project_runway/#774064]]></link>
    
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    <author><![CDATA[Ian]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Sounds like a good depression-era project. Obama's  stimulus package probably will have money for stuff like this.<br />
<br />
Even moderately-fast trains would be a *huge* advantage over current Amtrak, which just borrows the rail lines from the coal companies.
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Ian]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:08:46 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Project Runway]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/11/20/project_runway/#774018]]></link>
    
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    <author><![CDATA[gillsans]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[#31 You beat me to it.  High speed trains aren't matter transporters.  Traveling to Chicago at 100mph average speed (maybe a little low, but realistic for current tech) isn't that much better than driving at 70mph.  <br />
<br />
The only advantage to a train is the bar.
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by gillsans]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:50:00 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Project Runway]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/11/20/project_runway/#774007]]></link>
    
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    <author><![CDATA[Greg]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Sure! I'd love a high-speed rail line that goes all the places I'm going now without the need for an airplane: Japan, Hawaii, Denmark, Germany, Italy... Wait. Something is not working here.
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Greg]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:47:39 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Project Runway]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/11/20/project_runway/#773984]]></link>
    
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    <author><![CDATA[Ivan]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Deficits are irrelevant at this point in time, if the spending is for the right things.  Our country is in the midst of an economic crisis, and now is the time when deficit spending is appropriate to kick-start the economy.  Aid to the financial sector is part and parcel with the lie that is trickle-down economics.  Building regional rail, schools, roads, bridges, power transmission lines from remote areas where solar and wind energy can be generated, etc. would create hundreds of thousands of jobs for unskilled, semi-skilled and skilled workers throughout the country.  Where's the financial crisis if you give unemployed people good-paying jobs and they then can pay their mortgages?  There isn't one.  <br />
<br />
If we spend the right way now, we can engage in a modernization program that would improve our transportation infrastructure, education facilities, and promote renewable energy sources; we dig ourselves out of the financial crisis; and some projects could be self-financing.<br />
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Ivan]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:40:19 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Project Runway]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/11/20/project_runway/#773878]]></link>
    
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    <author><![CDATA[David Wright]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Just Me: Yes, it's just you. Seattle to Chicago is 2000 mi. A 200 mi/h non-stop train would take 10 hours; more realistic scenarios would require 15-20 hours.<br />
<br />
Notice that one of the common characteristics of countries where high-speed rail is a significant part of the national transportation mix is that almost all trips are less than 500 miles.
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by David Wright]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:53:36 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Project Runway]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/11/20/project_runway/#773860]]></link>
    
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    <author><![CDATA[Toe Tag]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[@20, if the G decides to "seize ROW" (i.e., condemn it) they still have to pay for it.
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Toe Tag]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:42:57 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Project Runway]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/11/20/project_runway/#773844]]></link>
    
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    <author><![CDATA[Just Me]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[I would LOVE rapid train service along the coast.  But we need more than that, we need to head east as well.  Rapid Train service from Seattle to Chicago anyone?<br />
<br />
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Just Me]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:36:54 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Project Runway]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/11/20/project_runway/#773840]]></link>
    
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    <author><![CDATA[Fnarf]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[I don't mean to kill your dreams, Julie. And maybe there is a way, by utilizing highway rights-of-way or something. But it's going to be really difficult. Gillsans points to another problem -- and, really, the Jack Shit starts at Portland, not Eugene, because honestly Eugene ain't much.
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Fnarf]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:34:41 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Project Runway]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/11/20/project_runway/#773821]]></link>
    
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    <author><![CDATA[gillsans]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[It would be great to have a high speed train from Vancouver to Eugene and from Sacramento/San Francisco to San Diego/TJ, but the problem with a West Coast high speed line is what's in between Eugene and Sacramento: Jack Shit.  <br />
<br />
Which would you choose: a 6 hour train ride from Portland to San Francisco or a 1 hour flight when they're roughly the same price?
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by gillsans]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:29:07 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Project Runway]]></title>
    
    
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    <author><![CDATA[Bellevue Ave]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[@24, it's good to know where bad arguments are cribbed from.
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Bellevue Ave]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:06:22 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Project Runway]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/11/20/project_runway/#773738]]></link>
    
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    <author><![CDATA[David Wright]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[How 'bout we just privatize Amtrac and Seatac and they can build whatever they can run at a profit?
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by David Wright]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:45:40 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Project Runway]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/11/20/project_runway/#773708]]></link>
    
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    <author><![CDATA[Rose]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[For all of your pro-high speed rail talking points, visit <a href="http://cahsr.blogspot.com/">California High Speed Rail Blog</a>.  The sidebar has handy subject guides to posts, like Energy/Peak Oil, Jobs/Stimulus, and (my favorite) Debunking the Deniers.  With some adaptation, you can crib most of your arguments from here.
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Rose]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:29:54 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Project Runway]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/11/20/project_runway/#773685]]></link>
    
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    <author><![CDATA[Mike in Renton]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Hell, I drive to Portland to fly to Phoenix because it's several hundred dollars cheaper right now.
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Mike in Renton]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:20:26 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Project Runway]]></title>
    
    
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    <author><![CDATA[Will in Seattle]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[High speed passenger and freight rail makes it possible to see cool games and theater and cruise bars in other cities and party to and from them on the train.<br />
<br />
Nothing like a game day train to a soccer match or the rave a state over!
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Will in Seattle]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:16:52 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Project Runway]]></title>
    
    
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    <author><![CDATA[Julie in Chicago]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[I'm also thinking of taking cars off the road, not just flights.  In the last couple of years, I've only flown from Seattle to Eugene once, but I've driven from Portland/southern WA to Eugene (and back) a couple of times and I'm about to do it again this weekend.<br />
<br />
Thanks for killing my dreams, Fnarf.
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Julie in Chicago]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:16:09 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Project Runway]]></title>
    
    
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    <author><![CDATA[tomasyalba]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[@18 for the reality check.  It is fun to dream, though, of the very rail-friendly Obama somehow leading Congress to seize ROW to make it happen.
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by tomasyalba]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:10:29 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Project Runway]]></title>
    
    
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    <author><![CDATA[Bellevue Ave]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[I counted 34 flights but still, best case scenario how long would it take and how expensive would it be?
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Bellevue Ave]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:06:07 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Project Runway]]></title>
    
    
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    <author><![CDATA[Fnarf]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[You'd be surprised, BA. There are something like 50 flights a day to Portland. <br />
<br />
The problem with a West Coast line is rail right-of-way. There's only one, and it's owned by freight. That's why Amtrak is so slow; we already have some fairly fast trains, but they mostly run at 30 MPH just like the slow ones do. To have high speed rail, you'd have to have a dedicated line, and the ROW is much too narrow for two. New rail ROW is not practical; it would cost TRILLIONS to buy the land and cross the obstacles.
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Fnarf]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:59:26 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Project Runway]]></title>
    
    
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    <author><![CDATA[joykiller]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[I doubt most Sea-Tac air traffice comes from Portland, Vancouver, and San Francisco, as this post seems to suggest, but someone should feel free to prove me wrong.
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by joykiller]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:57:44 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Project Runway]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/11/20/project_runway/#773597]]></link>
    
    <guid isPermaLink="true"><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/11/20/project_runway/#773597]]></guid>
    <author><![CDATA[Your Name Here]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[this is the kind of government spending we need to do, deficit be damned. forget the bailouts, start spending on progressive infrastructure.
        
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          Posted by Your Name Here]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:49:13 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Project Runway]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/11/20/project_runway/#773594]]></link>
    
    <guid isPermaLink="true"><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/11/20/project_runway/#773594]]></guid>
    <author><![CDATA[Julie in Chicago]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Errr.  "straight line rail system".  This mandatory Preview thing might be helpful if I actually ever re-read my posts before submitting.
        
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          Posted by Julie in Chicago]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:48:46 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Project Runway]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/11/20/project_runway/#773593]]></link>
    
    <guid isPermaLink="true"><![CDATA[http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/11/20/project_runway/#773593]]></guid>
    <author><![CDATA[Julie in Chicago]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Bellevue -- If there isn't the demand for a Seattle to Vancouver leg, don't build it.  But, the beauty of a straight line fail system is that there <i>is</i> demand between Seattle and Portland and between Seattle and Eugene, and Portland and Eugene...<br />
<br />
Any one of those legs might not have the demand on its own, but together the total demand for the entire rail line could make it viable.   As opposed to here, where there will never be enough demand between St. Louis and Indy, say, and there are no natural geographic connections to be able to build upon whatever demand there might be.
        
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          Posted by Julie in Chicago]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:47:19 -0800</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.thestranger.com">The Stranger</source>
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