http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/11/13/a_brief_history_of_mormonism Comments On: A Brief History of Mormonism by Dan Savage en-us Copyright 2009 The Stranger. All rights reserved. This RSS file is offered to individuals, The Stranger readers, and non-commercial organizations only. Any commercial websites wishing to use this RSS file, please contact The Stranger. webmaster@thestranger.com (The Stranger Webmaster) Tue, 24 Nov 2009 00:00:01 -0800 Tue, 24 Nov 2009 14:45:00 -0800 Foundation http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Posted by chelovek]]> Sat, 06 Dec 2008 17:07:55 -0800 The Stranger Posted by chelovek]]> Sat, 06 Dec 2008 17:06:11 -0800 The Stranger Posted by ariel]]> Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:37:02 -0800 The Stranger
Whenever I hear people talk about 'Islamists', I wonder if they have ever noticed the Christianists that surround us every day; people whose zeal for fundamentalist extremism is so great that they believe that God wants them to kill, lie, cheat, and steal in his name. It strikes me as so very odd that they see a moral deficit in consensual sexual activity between adults, and yet so no moral deficit whatever in endorsing violence from the pulpit.

Warren T Jeffs, the head of the fundamentalist LDS in Colorado Springs was on the FBI's ten most wanted fugitives until he was apprehended recently. The charges against him including the organized rape of children. He didn't think this scheme up on his own, though; his dad had been doing it in Colorado Springs for decades before him.
Posted by Dave]]> Fri, 14 Nov 2008 10:24:54 -0800 The Stranger pbs.org if this link doesn't work:

http://www.pbs.org/mormons/view/
Posted by interested observer]]> Thu, 13 Nov 2008 19:57:52 -0800 The Stranger
Mormon Church 1995:

"Alternatives to the legal and loving marriage between a man and a woman are helping to unravel the fabric of human society. I am sure this is pleasing to the devil. The fabric I refer to is the family. These so-called alternative life-styles must not be accepted as right, because they frustrate God’s commandment for a life-giving union of male and female within a legal marriage as stated in Genesis. If practiced by all adults, these life-styles would mean the end of the human family."
- Apostle James E. Faust, "Serving the Lord and Resisting the Devil," Liahona, Nov. 1995, Page 3.

SAME Mormon Church 1862

"Monogamy, or restrictions by law to one wife, is no part of the economy of heaven among men. Such a system was commenced by the founders of the Roman empire....Rome became the mistress of the world, and introduced this order of monogamy wherever her sway was acknowledged. Thus this monogamic order of marriage, so esteemed by modern Christians as a holy sacrament and divine institution, is nothing but a system established by a set of robbers.... Why do we believe in and practice polygamy? Because the Lord introduced it to his servants in a revelation given to Joseph Smith, and the Lord's servants have always practiced it. 'And is that religion popular in heaven?' it is the only popular religion there,..."
- The Prophet Brigham Young, The Deseret News, August 6, 1862

Here is a whole collections of declarations from the Mormon Church condemning monogamy using the same dogmatic rhetoric they use today again:

http://www.i4m.com/think/sexuality/homos…

The Mormon Church was on the wrong side of history then and now.
Posted by LDSGEMS]]> Thu, 13 Nov 2008 19:38:34 -0800 The Stranger
It has nothing to do with the other beliefs and practices of Mormonism and everything to do with their particular beliefs regarding marriage.
Posted by quant]]> Thu, 13 Nov 2008 17:03:31 -0800 The Stranger Would you say that people whose views on same-sex marriage are informed by their Jewish faith are silly because they were handed down by God on stone tablets?

Damn straight I would, especially if they claimed that God handed down those tablets in 1957. And yes, when Christian and Jewish groups have sought to place monuments to the Ten Commandments in public places such as courthouses, I've opposed that as well. Again, you may well be right as to the advisability of criticizing the religious on the basis of their beliefs on a tactical level, but the fact is they invite this sort of criticism by using their beliefs as arguments. It's like Intelligent Design -- it's fine with me if people want to believe Noah's Ark really happened, until they insist that it be taught in schools. At that point I feel like they should come up with some proof to back up their arguments or shut up.

As to the majority of Californians agreeing with them: Although I take issue with the whole premise of how the initiative process was used there to strip rights from a minority, on a certain level you are right -- the people voted how they voted. However, the Mormon church engaged in a very high-profile campaign there, and the people affected by it have every right to hang the consequences of that around their neck. The LDS Church here is quite visibly engaging in attempts to shape public policy, and they deserve the backlash they are getting from the public that must suffer through the resulting policy.

One month ago the fact that these people believed in sacred bloomers and the Angel Moroni and his Disappearing Golden Tablets was not a subject of constant public ridicule. The fact that it is now has everything to do with the way they thrust themselves into the spotlight through their actions. If they don't want to bear the unpleasant glare of public outrage and ridicule they should stop being so publicly outrageous and ridiculous.

I realize that here in the Northwest there are many Mormons, Jack-Mormons and backsliders whose feelings get hurt when this stuff is mocked. If it will make you feel better, you can mock my crazy-ass ancestral religion all you want. Besides, let's face it, the Amish are funny. But at least they don't try to force everybody to ride in horse-drawn buggies.
Posted by flamingbanjo]]> Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:39:37 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Vince]]> Thu, 13 Nov 2008 15:31:00 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Joe Royale]]> Thu, 13 Nov 2008 15:11:52 -0800 The Stranger
But making fun of Mormon mythology and religious practices, while certainly amusing, is not helping our cause at all. It just leaves us open to charges of prejudice and intolerance ourselves. If we're going to run around calling everone else bigoted everyone else bigoted ( (a tactic i approve of!), it behooves us to avoid bigotry ourselves.

(Keep in mind that I don't think protesting Mormon temples is bigoted. I think criticizing their underpants is.)

I'm kind of sad Dan Savage is playing this game because he's one of the smartest and most aggressive people we have on our side. I'd prefer he didn't compromise the strength of his other arguments with this kind of petty, small-minded crap.
Posted by lisa lisa]]> Thu, 13 Nov 2008 15:01:39 -0800 The Stranger
Besides, if you indeed believe that the Mormon argument was that angelic golden plates are a sound basis for public policy, you must then also believe that the majority of Californian voters, who are not Mormon, agreed with them!

Posted by jordan]]> Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:22:56 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Sir Vic]]> Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:22:36 -0800 The Stranger
I know perfectly well what an Ad Hominem attack is, but from your remarks it seems to me that maybe you don't. The fact that Mormons believe that their "prophet" was issued Divine instructions from an angel who delivered these instructions inscribed on golden plates which were then whisked away out of sight before anybody else could see them is not beside the point here, because the LDS Church is claiming that the contents of those alleged golden plates constitutes a basis for making public policy. If we're now to be ruled by a set of mystical golden plates, I for one would like to see them. I can go look at the Constitution in a case in the Smithsonian. Where are the plates?

And yes, religious identity is a choice. If people don't have the choice to abandon a religion they don't believe or support, then that's called a cult. I for one am completely fed up with people claiming that their patently silly views should be exempt from criticism because they go to a special building every Sunday and sit on an uncomfortable bench to hear them.
Posted by flamingbanjo]]> Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:46:06 -0800 The Stranger
You guys need to look at some very very basic rhetoric. "Ad hominem" is a fallacy which involves responding to an argument by attacking the identity or belief of the person making it, rather than the argument itself.

If you believe that LDS participation in the political process is illegitimate, then you need to make that case, not simply complain after the fact that they were more effective at organizing and fundraising. After all, they are simply people who acted in accordance with their beliefs, just as you and I would.

Finally, from a purely solutions-oriented standpoint, I'm not sure what this accomplishes. Do you think the mind of a single person who voted for Prop 8 will be swayed by these ugly anti-Mormon screeds?
Posted by jordan]]> Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:27:06 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Don't you think he looks tired?]]> Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:25:04 -0800 The Stranger
All these people out on the streets, what percentage of them gave money to "No on Prop 8" ? How many of them volunteered to go door-to-door, to talk to people and explain to them why Prop 8 was wrong and should be defeated?

Of course the Mormon religion sounds silly. So do all religions when boiled down to their basic element - in that sense it's no different from mainline Christianity, or Islam, or freakin' paganism. I don't see how this has anything to do with Prop 8.


Posted by jordan]]> Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:20:51 -0800 The Stranger
Being Mormon is a belief system. One can choose to be Mormon, or not (unlike being gay, which is notoriously difficult to "un-choose." ) Since they are claiming those beliefs as justification for their attempts to influence public policy it is entirely appropriate for their beliefs to be publicly examined and, if discovered to be ridiculous, ridiculed.

A month ago the phrase "magic underpants" was relatively obscure. The Church of LDS brought this upon themselves.


Posted by flamingbanjo]]> Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:15:07 -0800 The Stranger
Payback's a b..ch.
Posted by My Name Here]]> Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:49:33 -0800 The Stranger
THE MORMONS PICKED THIS FIGHT. They provided more than 75% of the funding for the pro-Prop 8 campaign---and that's funding actively solicited by the church leaders from the rank and file. Nothing said in this comment stream is untrue. Have you read Mormon history?
Posted by doubledutch-ess]]> Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:48:41 -0800 The Stranger
I can't believe this. I honestly can't. I can't believe that the gay community would resort to such Gestapo tactics.

As for the quote there, let's just turn it around for a second - "you too might have a burning inferiority about your belief system, and you might manifest that inferiority by picking on the Mormons, who make an easy target and scare the bejesus out of your typical queer."

This is truly disgusting. Instead of making the case for gay marriage on merits, you're making it by demonizing others.
Posted by jordan]]> Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:18:34 -0800 The Stranger MormonsFor8.com
Posted by hyperlinker]]> Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:12:10 -0800 The Stranger
All four of the Brodie books mentioned are awesome. The Sir Richard Burton book is great: the guy was one-in-a-billion.

Oretga leaves out a key point: When Joe was scamming the farmers, he was banging their wives & daughters! Say what you will about the con man, but he was an all-time lothario!
Posted by Sir Vic]]> Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:00:17 -0800 The Stranger
(oh, wait)
Posted by Will in Seattle]]> Thu, 13 Nov 2008 11:51:38 -0800 The Stranger
Now this bunch of Johnny-Come-Lately gay folks comes along and says, "Hey, we want to marry." And the government lets them!

You'd be pissed too.

Of course, if they let the gays marry, then perhaps legalization of polygamy is down the road. It'd be interesting to see what the Mormons do then.
Posted by BJ]]> Thu, 13 Nov 2008 11:46:28 -0800 The Stranger