http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/11/11/gay-power-ne-white-power Comments On: "Gay Power" ≠ "White Power" by Dan Savage en-us Copyright 2009 The Stranger. All rights reserved. This RSS file is offered to individuals, The Stranger readers, and non-commercial organizations only. Any commercial websites wishing to use this RSS file, please contact The Stranger. webmaster@thestranger.com (The Stranger Webmaster) Mon, 23 Nov 2009 00:00:01 -0800 Mon, 23 Nov 2009 17:30:00 -0800 Foundation http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss
And none of this even raises any eyebrow? No one bothered to ask whether the exit poll is at all accurate? Ofcourse not, because many of you(including Dan) already hated blacks on November 3rd so what would make Novemeber 5th any different? Now you feel you have a legitimate reason to hate blacks openly, unlike before when you'd hide your hatred in order to perpetuate the liberal facade of tolerance and open mindedness. This exit poll feeds your narrative on black homophobia( which incidently is only a problem when it affects you). You guys sure know how to win people over to your side. I'm sure black gays just love being call the n-word, I'm sure many of your (former I'd say) black straight allies just love being scapegoated. I in no way shape or form believe that blacks voted 70 percent in favor of Prop 8. It's clear that the 230 surveyed by CNN was an outlier. But after the chain of events we've witnessed the past two weeks, I would not be surprised to see black support for a gay marriage ban reach 90 percent nationwide. Blacks straight or gay have no place in your movement and you've all made that perfectly clear. Gay power does indeed equal white power. Keep up the good work! Now you have a chance of alienating the most solid base in the democractic party, let's see how many more elections you win now. I've always thought liberals were a joke, now gay radicals have now proven it.
Posted by Jaimie Lynn Spears]]> Wed, 19 Nov 2008 17:32:44 -0800 The Stranger
I'm not sure that you are in a position to state what SHOULD "particularly offend African American gays and lesbians." The fact that you presume to tell this demographic what should be offensive to them is condescending at best.

I can tell you this: your fanning of the flames vis a vis prop 8 and the African American vote has been offensive to many. Ernest Hardy's blog takes you to task rather eloquently, and gives this entire issue a much more thorough examination. I encourage everyone to take a look: www.ernesthardy.com.
Posted by David Marine]]> Sat, 15 Nov 2008 21:16:18 -0800 The Stranger
In particular, he got the maths wrong! Voters over 65 deliver a net margin of +3.3% for Prop 8 (61% For minus 39% Against, times 15% of total voters) African-American voters deliver +4.0% net margin ((.70-.30)*.10).

This gap remains even if we assume 100% of black voters age 18-29 voted like typical first-time voters.
Posted by RonK, Seattle]]> Wed, 12 Nov 2008 13:31:29 -0800 The Stranger
Exactly. For such a gutsy columnist, Dan is showing a remarkable lack of guts about admitting his harsh denunciation of black homophobia to have been reactionary and emotional and not consistent with the facts of Prop 8.

Dan, just because youre gay doesnt mean you have to be a pussy. Man up and admit your original reaction wasnt all that fair instead making excuse after excuse. Shit is weak.
Posted by ManUpDan]]> Wed, 12 Nov 2008 12:57:31 -0800 The Stranger Posted by HDS]]> Wed, 12 Nov 2008 11:20:43 -0800 The Stranger
My issue is with this whole "how could minority groups vote so overwhelmingly against the rights of another minority group" thing. Minority groups (black, Latino, asian, poor) seem, anecdotally at least, to have a higher proportion of conservative Christians than the majority groups. Because of the sense of community, or whatever. But that's what causes people not to support gay rights. And that's where the argument needs to be made. This shock about the black/minority vote appears to be (to me, as a black woman who wishes she lived in CA, FL, and AR to vote against this crap) naive.
Posted by Dispro-who?]]> Wed, 12 Nov 2008 08:41:26 -0800 The Stranger Posted by whatevs]]> Wed, 12 Nov 2008 08:14:55 -0800 The Stranger
I voted for Obama in the primaries and in the election, not because of his race, not in spite of it, but because I believed that he was the best man for the job. Race was not an issue in casting my vote, although I fully appreciate that this was a historic election. It truly was moving to see our first African-American president elected into office.

I researched his position on all the topics that are relevant to me as a far-left, liberal feminist. I read that he supported same sex civil unions and not gay marriage. While I disagree with that position, I felt that the Dem. ticket was much more progressive than the Rep. ticket.

I think that there Puritanism needs to become a thing of the past. I think that for people who view sexual preference or gender as a person's primary identity are actually much more obsessed with sex than those of us who don't. A person's sexuality is only one part of who they are, in the same way that race or ethnicity are only one part of a person's identity.

Enough with the labels, already. We need to see people as human first, before we see heterosexual, homosexual, black, white, red, orange, yellow or purple. What does it matter? If two consenting adults of sound mind and body want to make a committment to love each other, then they should have that right.

As much as so many straight people have bastardized the institution of marriage, I'm surprised that it's really even that big of a deal to them. What exactly do they believe that they are they protecting?

No to h8!
Posted by sugahmama]]> Wed, 12 Nov 2008 07:57:03 -0800 The Stranger
You did link black people to Prop 8 passing and you did blame black people for it also.

so, shut the fuck up..REALLY.
Posted by ShadeTea]]> Wed, 12 Nov 2008 07:51:54 -0800 The Stranger
What about this sentence from Nate Silver:

"Certainly, the No on 8 folks might have done a better job of outreach to California's black and Latino communities. "

This is what you ignore. But a lot of your data comes from Andrew Sullivan's posts which say:

"The massive black turnout was the critical factor...Black liberals were the critical voting bloc...Obama has always opposed marriage equality...he got his way...."

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/th…

Now, if you quote extensively from an article, then excise the summary which those very points make, your post still leaves readers to infer the logical conclusion--even if that conclusion is removed from your post.

Mr. Sullivan goes even further, actually, in blaming Obama as well, saying "he got what he wanted". This is not at all surprising from the man who published the Bell Curve. But for you to quote his factoids extensively, to the point of even pasting his links, and then follow that with "I'm not saying that black pushed this over the edge," when the substance of your post says exactly that, goes over the border of disingenuous and into dishonest.
Posted by That annoying 'interest troll']]> Wed, 12 Nov 2008 00:58:56 -0800 The Stranger
Your list includes nothing other than Black people. You haven't unearthed a single prominent racist from any other race? Not that we should be surprised. But think hard now. Something tells me you have more than just a passing acquaintance with Jim Crow. I'm sure someone will come to mind.

Even I'm willing to admit bias and bigotry come in all colors.
Posted by HDS]]> Tue, 11 Nov 2008 23:58:05 -0800 The Stranger
Which Jim Crow like laws have blacks created when it comes to free speech?
Posted by HDS]]> Tue, 11 Nov 2008 23:51:14 -0800 The Stranger then "but black people don't owe you shit."

Then why to you feel entitled to outreach? You stated it was racism that they don't do "outreach". Funny they don't do outreach to asians,jews, and straight women, but all these groups still voted to allow gays their civil rights.
"Gay organizations do not organize with the NAACP or any other black-led group"

NAACP doesn't organize with gay groups, womens groups (unless they "people o' color" specific), asian, jewish, arab, indian or hispanic groups. A lot of these groups sure as shit get off their asses for you though. Perhaps you should learn about the civil rights movement.

Then your finally rant "You, Dan Savage, do not talk about affirmative action issues"
Affirmative action is NOT a civil right! Damn, you a whinner. It goes against civil rights- it is not treating AA's equal, it is treated you unequal. Gays, on the other hand are not asking for the special priveledges that you deem owed to you. Gays have every right to want equality and 70% of AA's apparenlty vote for them to sit at the back of the bus. If 70% of gays didn't believe in affirmative action it would mean nothing. Now if 70% of gays wanted there to be "colored only" and "white only" then it would be different. It's ironic that you have a laundry list of things you are entitled to- affirmative action, "outreach", gay community leaders that aren't white- but then you are SHOCKED that gays would expect A's not to actually do anything, but simply not vote to keep Jim Crow laws in effect.
Posted by sam]]> Tue, 11 Nov 2008 23:22:54 -0800 The Stranger Thank you for stating that Blacks did not singlehandedly pass 8. Now can we move on to the important outreach that must be done with Blacks and all other religiously inclined groups like older people? Those who say don't waste your time are wrong. It is worth it.

It is a fallacy to believe that sympathic people just came to the civil rights movement and weren't reached out to. Reaching out means stating your case over and over again to anyone who will listen. It's true, you may not get through to a person the first time you try but that doesn't mean give up. Persuasion can take time.

Once upon a time I too though gay marriage was unneccessary. I thought why have gay marriage when there are domestic partnerships? Of course I have since changed my tune and in fact still have my No on 8 posters up. But it wasn't an instant change. The first time someone said it's just like civil rights I didn't say "guess what? you're right I'm converted." I had to think about it some more and realize that I'd been lied to by my pastor and my so called Christian family members.
Just because an individual doesn't immediately agree with you doesn't mean that you aren't changing their minds - you might be!
Posted by clarity]]> Tue, 11 Nov 2008 22:04:42 -0800 The Stranger
Hell, I see this in the white gay community's treatment of black gays. I used to live in North Carolina and there was no outreach in black neighborhoods, but there was plenty of support around the colleges. Plus all of the organizers were white, as well the people that came in from time to time from their national headquarters.

Dan Savage doesn't want to hear this, but black people don't owe you shit. Gay organizations do not organize with the NAACP or any other black-led group. You, Dan Savage, do not talk about affirmative action issues or the economic disparites that are facing many black people in this country in your columns. And please stop acting like your vote for Obama was a "favor" to the black "community." That's just utter bullshit. Your other choice was McCain/Palin, who called what you do with those boys an "abomination."
Posted by dawg]]> Tue, 11 Nov 2008 21:36:41 -0800 The Stranger
Dan didn't criticize black people in general. And he didn't launch a critique of an entire race. He said a huge disproportiate number of AA's voted for prop 8. This is a fact. He does not meet your definition of a racist at all.

Do you want a list of people who do? These people fit your definition to a T.:
Malcolm X, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Cynthea Mckinney, Andrew Young, Jerimiah Wright, Louis Farrakhan. There you go, and, except for the last, they are usually referred to as civil rights leaders. Go chew on one of their ankles for a while.
Posted by kelly]]> Tue, 11 Nov 2008 20:54:31 -0800 The Stranger
To quote civil rights leader Andrew Young "First it was the Jews, then the Asians, now Arabs..." then he went on a long tirade of scapegoating. Guess what? The NYT did a followup and found very few AA"s were offended, and most agreed. So if a civil rights icon can scapegoat with the blessing of his community, you can look the other way when a sex advise columist says it like it is.

ps- I followed the link. This is a guy who gushes with praise for Mumia Abu-Jamal, Cynthea Mckinney and Jerimiah Wright. So apparently he is a fan of free speech, just not for outspoken gay white men

Posted by kelly]]> Tue, 11 Nov 2008 20:44:26 -0800 The Stranger http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-har…
Posted by Jenny]]> Tue, 11 Nov 2008 20:28:26 -0800 The Stranger Posted by HDS]]> Tue, 11 Nov 2008 17:12:45 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Hunter]]> Tue, 11 Nov 2008 17:09:49 -0800 The Stranger Posted by HDS]]> Tue, 11 Nov 2008 17:07:35 -0800 The Stranger If I throw this fact out there without telling you a whole bunch of other facts, Mr Savage, many people would be inclined to believe, quite simply, that blacks are “inherently” more criminal than white men. On the opposite end of the spectrum, but just as simplistically, other people would explain this fact by saying that the justice system is controlled exclusively by whites and that whites are nothing but a bunch of racist bigots. My “innocent” statement of fact would serve to reinforce racism among whites AND blacks. There are many, all too many “facts” that miss or hide the point. More worrisome coming from someone of your stature and reputation, in your blog entry you have fallen into the typical trap of only being able to explain social phenomena through the lens of race alone. Where is your socioeconomic analysis of Proposition 8? How many working class voters supported Prop 8? How many of the unemployed? And what does it mean if blue-collar workers supported Prop 8? Does it mean that they’re ungrateful because gays helped to elect a president that intends to tax them less? Or does it say something about the failure of queer groups to engage in critical analyses of ethnicity and class alongside those that have to do with sexuality? And I say this as a queer person who opposed proposition 8. Just as with your initial support for the war in Iraq, Mr Savage, it is time to stop trying to save face and take back your destructive arguments. At the very least you should put your facts in their proper context.
Posted by Montero]]> Tue, 11 Nov 2008 16:42:53 -0800 The Stranger minority group. NEVER! I don't think it is racism to point out a fact. It is racism to blame Blacks solely for the passing of Prop H8.
Posted by yucca flower]]> Tue, 11 Nov 2008 16:42:36 -0800 The Stranger ethnic and racial groups have conflicts with each other.
Posted by yucca flower]]> Tue, 11 Nov 2008 16:39:28 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Yeek]]> Tue, 11 Nov 2008 16:38:27 -0800 The Stranger