Comments On: Seattle Police Arrest Teen In Another Questionable Obstruction Case by Jonah Spangenthal-Lee http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2009/07/09/seattle-police-arrest-teen-in-another-questionable-obstruction-case Comments On: Seattle Police Arrest Teen In Another Questionable Obstruction Case by Jonah Spangenthal-Lee en-us Copyright 2009 The Stranger. All rights reserved. This RSS file is offered to individuals, The Stranger readers, and non-commercial organizations only. Any commercial websites wishing to use this RSS file, please contact The Stranger. webmaster@thestranger.com (The Stranger Webmaster) Wed, 25 Nov 2009 00:00:01 -0800 Wed, 25 Nov 2009 10:45:00 -0800 Foundation http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss <![CDATA[Re: Seattle Police Arrest Teen In Another Questionable Obstruction Case]]> Lets see if their views change next time they are up and close to someone or two who wants to cut your throat all because you have a badge with toatl disregard that they are human beings as well. Please don't forget there are alot of bad cats out there...... and Uhm they outnumber the police.

A word to RHea kid, next time mind your own business, or at least stand by a good distance away, dont interfere and keep your mouth shut.
Oh by the way, did you know that the other guy had a rap sheet a mile long and hangs out at 3 and Pine drinking and harassing young girls. HMMMM things that make you go HMMMM
Posted by yourneighbor2010]]> Sun, 25 Oct 2009 12:47:48 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Seattle Police Arrest Teen In Another Questionable Obstruction Case]]> Posted by RyanB.]]> Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:11:41 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Seattle Police Arrest Teen In Another Questionable Obstruction Case]]>
The more respectful you are, the less it hurts getting into the back of their car.

As for the officer using extreme force.....the kid jumped out of the emergency exit window, and tried to flee from the police. He deserved it, and I wish I could've been there to point and laugh at him.

This is why people like me love watching the show cops....and love Reno:911! even more.

Stupid criminals are funny.


Posted by Voice]]> Sun, 26 Jul 2009 23:10:38 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Seattle Police Arrest Teen In Another Questionable Obstruction Case]]> Fuck The Police
bunch of punk ass bitches that arrest teens and abuse their rights. last time a cop seen he tried to abuse my rights by serching me for weed for no reason at all i didnt even have hahaha any but thats besides the fact.

oh and if there are any cops are on here
fuck you pig and go eat some doughnuts
from your best friend oinky McOink

Posted by the police like dicks in their mouth]]> Sun, 26 Jul 2009 17:21:02 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Seattle Police Arrest Teen In Another Questionable Obstruction Case]]>
with 15 witnesses in seattle, if the police did something obviously wrong i would be shocked if none of the other witnesses corroborated the testimony here.

the police can arrest a non-paying metro rider if they want to.

i believe the police may have used unnecessary force after the arrest of the 17 year-old metro rider.

i do not believe one police officer faced the crowd, pacing as if if a warden in a bad movie, asking the crowd if anyone has a problem with the way he treated the 17 year-old suspect.

i believe the 18 year old was standing too-close to the officer (a few feet), using profanities, and likely making the officer uncomfortable. this may have incited other members of the crowd (the girlfriend?) and perhaps the recently arrested suspect.

i believe the office may have honest believed the 18 year-old was making his arrest more difficult, hence, obstructing his actions.

i do not believe a reasonable person (sans additional testimony) would find the officer actually feared for his safety.

what does that leave me with? if the officer actually believed the 18 year-old make the situation more difficult to contain, then i do believe there was probably cause for an arrest on obstruction charges. i do not think the officer should have arrested him (sans additional testimony) and i am not surprised charges were not filed.

i would like follow-up, but this is not really the case i want to use to push for more police accountability. not yet, at least. there are far better examples.
Posted by in-frequent]]> Mon, 13 Jul 2009 08:47:49 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Seattle Police Arrest Teen In Another Questionable Obstruction Case]]>
first off, i can image cases where yelling crosses from "protest" to "obstruction" (as i'm fairly certain you can as well). secondly, we do not know that yelling was the only action here. proximity would obviously account, as well as incitement and threatening or interfering gestures.

pretending all yelling is merely "protest" is dishonest. i hate to be forced into defending the police actions here, but you've posted twice know with blatantly wrong information. i believe many cops abuse their power and position as well, but to be credible, you have to weigh the testimony to determine which cases exemplify this. for example, the boys and girls club employee case seemed to demonstrate an abuse. the case with the guy slammed into the cinerama seems to demonstrate an abuse.

this case is certainly questionable, but i have to weigh both sides. and i do believe that 18 year old boys sometimes mouth-off or unnecessarily interfere with police work, just as i do believe police sometimes overreact to those who would question their behavior. the police officer's testimony seems credible, and, to be honest, the other witness account is way to clean to seem entirely accurate. not always is the truth somewhere in the middle, but i get the feeling that it is in this case, or that the officer was correct. perhaps he didn't have to arrest the guy, but i think there may have been probable cause for him to do so. i also think there may not have been probable cause. i just cannot say for certain either way because of the witness accounts, the law, and my past experiences.
Posted by in-frequent]]> Mon, 13 Jul 2009 08:35:53 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Seattle Police Arrest Teen In Another Questionable Obstruction Case]]> Posted by hey hey]]> Fri, 10 Jul 2009 15:30:33 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Seattle Police Arrest Teen In Another Questionable Obstruction Case]]>
Courts have repeatedly found that yelling at cops is legal. It's called "protest."


Posted by Eric Arrr]]> Fri, 10 Jul 2009 04:04:30 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Seattle Police Arrest Teen In Another Questionable Obstruction Case]]> more likely than not in a reasonable person's view.

it really depends on what exactly the guy was doing. if he was "too close" and yelling - perhaps inciting - then there might be probable cause to suspect he was obstructing the officer's work. the way i see it, was the guy responding in a reasonable way to the situation, or was he unjustifiably aggravating it? giving the current testimony available, if i could see how an officer would likely think the situation was made more difficult to control because of unreasonable behavior, then i would have to agree there was probable cause. i could also see how there may not have been probable cause - there are two sides to this story. without more information, i cannot say either side was definitely right or wrong, or even likely right or wrong.

the requirement for probable cause is less than the requirement necessary for a conviction, and thus, charges are not always filed (though there could be many other good and bad reasons for not filing charges).

what happened was not at all like taking a photograph, or talking with a police officer later. this may in no way mirror your personal experiences with the police, or it could be very similar. i don't know much about your case either. but in both cases, the accused seemed to exhibit unnecessarily questionable behavior. these cops had actual business here, even if you don't like that they were enforcing an actual law. yelling was really not necessary, just as hitting a guy with a foam golf ball is not necessary.


Posted by in-frequent]]> Thu, 09 Jul 2009 23:20:18 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Seattle Police Arrest Teen In Another Questionable Obstruction Case]]>
Seattle police have not yet responded to a request for comment.


Yeah, good luck with that.
Posted by Gomez]]> Thu, 09 Jul 2009 19:37:04 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Seattle Police Arrest Teen In Another Questionable Obstruction Case]]>
While they use this many cops for this, murderers and rapists driving in Tim Eyman's car go free.
Posted by Will in Seattle]]> Thu, 09 Jul 2009 15:55:08 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Seattle Police Arrest Teen In Another Questionable Obstruction Case]]> Posted by Greg]]> Thu, 09 Jul 2009 15:33:40 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Seattle Police Arrest Teen In Another Questionable Obstruction Case]]> Posted by Rotten666]]> Thu, 09 Jul 2009 15:31:17 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Seattle Police Arrest Teen In Another Questionable Obstruction Case]]>
Oh, but SPD's really struggling because of low funding. Right. That's it. Their priorities are absolutely perfect.
Posted by Gomez]]> Thu, 09 Jul 2009 14:11:54 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Seattle Police Arrest Teen In Another Questionable Obstruction Case]]>
No, it's not a tough one. The standard of "probable cause" demands that the officer justify the arrest. If there's not enough information to determine probable cause, then it's false arrest.

And believe me, officers never miss a chance to level an accusation. If it's not in the report, it's 'cause it didn't happen.

Posted by Eric Arrr]]> Thu, 09 Jul 2009 14:06:35 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Seattle Police Arrest Teen In Another Questionable Obstruction Case]]> state's obstructing statute, which is way, way, way too broad:

A person is guilty of obstructing a law enforcement officer if the person willfully hinders, delays, or obstructs any law enforcement officer in the discharge of his or her official powers or duties.

In other words, anything you do that the cop doesn't like is a gross misdemeanor.

One would almost think from reading that statute that one didn't have any civil rights. Refuse to let an officer search you? That's a delay. Refuse to answer questions? Hindrance for sure.

Because of the vagueness inherent in the statute, it's left to the courts to figure out what is and isn't obstructive behavior, and the only time that ever happens is when some unfortunate plebe (e.g., me) has to pony up thousands of dollars to fight an obstruction charge in court. (I paid $3,500.00 to defend myself, only to have the city drop my case the day that the first contested hearing was supposed to commence.)

My own amateur opinion is that the state obstruction statute is unconstitutionally vague, in that a reasonable person has no way of knowing what kind of behavior is or is not lawful under the statute. At some point, one of these questionable cases will finally go before a judge, and hopefully we'll see this statute struck down and replaced with something more carefully drawn.

Posted by Eric Arrr]]> Thu, 09 Jul 2009 14:04:01 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Seattle Police Arrest Teen In Another Questionable Obstruction Case]]> Posted by z_nyc]]> Thu, 09 Jul 2009 13:49:46 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Seattle Police Arrest Teen In Another Questionable Obstruction Case]]> Posted by jmahlon]]> Thu, 09 Jul 2009 13:46:48 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Seattle Police Arrest Teen In Another Questionable Obstruction Case]]>
this is a tough one, because we don't know how much this guy was interfering or how much force was used in the take-down.

i do not automatically back the police, but this story does not - at this point - have enough testimony one way or the other that is terribly credible. i can easily see both sides being true.

in the future, take pictures. you can yell if you like, but take pictures. (maybe don't yell too much, though.)
Posted by in-frequent]]> Thu, 09 Jul 2009 13:44:08 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Seattle Police Arrest Teen In Another Questionable Obstruction Case]]> Posted by chucksaintpaul]]> Thu, 09 Jul 2009 13:31:20 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Seattle Police Arrest Teen In Another Questionable Obstruction Case]]> Posted by Hernandez]]> Thu, 09 Jul 2009 13:20:17 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Seattle Police Arrest Teen In Another Questionable Obstruction Case]]>
Here is the Constitutionally-dubious municipal code:

SMC 12A.16.010

Obstructing a public officer.

A. A person is guilty of obstructing a public officer if, with knowledge that the person obstructed is a public officer, he or she:

1. Intentionally and physically interferes with a public officer; or

2. Intentionally hinders or delays a public officer by disobeying an order to stop given by such officer; or

3. Intentionally refuses to cease an activity or behavior that creates a risk of injury to any person when ordered to do so by a public officer; or

4. Intentionally destroys, conceals or alters or attempts to destroy, conceal or alter any material which he or she knows the public officer is attempting to obtain, secure or preserve during an investigation, search or arrest; or

5. Intentionally refuses to leave the scene of an investigation of a crime while an investigation is in progress after being requested to leave by a public officer.
Posted by DOUG.]]> Thu, 09 Jul 2009 13:20:00 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Seattle Police Arrest Teen In Another Questionable Obstruction Case]]> Posted by Julie in Eugene]]> Thu, 09 Jul 2009 13:18:07 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Seattle Police Arrest Teen In Another Questionable Obstruction Case]]> Posted by schmacky]]> Thu, 09 Jul 2009 13:09:28 -0700 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Seattle Police Arrest Teen In Another Questionable Obstruction Case]]> Posted by Phil M]]> Thu, 09 Jul 2009 13:07:10 -0700 The Stranger