Comments On: This Makes Sense by Dominic Holden

Re: This Makes Sense

Will in Seattle — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 11:01:19 -0700

Dominic has a point. It's like the Fremont Solstice Parade and the Fremont Fair - both run by separate groups.

That said, I miss Volunteer Park. It was way more fun.
Posted by Will in Seattle

Re: This Makes Sense

bigyaz — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 09:09:04 -0700

Stick to drugs, Dominic. You're still full of shit, but at least it's something you know something about.

Posted by bigyaz

Re: This Makes Sense

Catalina Vel-DuRay — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 06:15:52 -0700

Vince, no one was "scammed". It's like the difference between having an event at the Olympic Hotel versus the Ballard VFW. When you go to the big leagues, you have to spend real money.

The only thing that surprises me is that they didn't make them pay the estimated cost ahead of time. That's how every hotel in the world does it.
Posted by Catalina Vel-DuRay

Re: This Makes Sense

Vince — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 05:15:39 -0700

It sounds like we've been scammed. We didn't have to go deep in the hole to use Voluteer Park.
Posted by Vince

Re: This Makes Sense

RonK, Seattle — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 00:38:36 -0700

Reading the last graf, I started wondering "Who WROTE this?" ... and then it hit me. Dominic.
Posted by RonK, Seattle

Re: This Makes Sense

disintegrator — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:47:05 -0700

Don't those '02 regulations sound a lot like Pike Place Market's rules? Do they get much money from the city?
Posted by disintegrator

Re: This Makes Sense

PA Native — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:18:54 -0700

It's the city's fault SOaP is $90K in the hole? You seriously wrote that?
Posted by PA Native

Re: This Makes Sense

Catalina Vel-DuRay — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:11:46 -0700

Why, Thank you, tacomagirl. That's very interesting. I always wondered how some of those smaller cultural events managed to do their thing at the center, and now I know.
Posted by Catalina Vel-DuRay

Re: This Makes Sense

tacomagirl — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 21:48:54 -0700

@10...there is a division at Seattle Center that underwrites non-profit, free, community events.
The Pride Festival organizers back in '06 chose to be a commercial, for profit event which precluded them from that underwriting and required them to pay for labor they incurred. Unfortunately they didn't have a clue what they were doing and had no idea how to turn a profit.

Posted by tacomagirl

Re: This Makes Sense

Loveschild — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 20:45:39 -0700

I agree with 10, also, it keeps organizers from facing complaints from other citizens that they're gettin their hands on public funds for group events that are not of the public's general interest. Especially in these times of fiscal restraint. Which is something totally different from an individual's exercise of free speech.
Posted by Loveschild

Re: This Makes Sense

Yo. — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 20:41:54 -0700

Street performers are not equivalent to the pride parade. Unworkable analogy. That many people is a whole different ballgame in terms of maintaining and protecting facilities. I do not trust volunteers to keep that place in working order, and the city is reasonable to do so, too.

SOaP signed a contract with the costs disclosed, didn't they? That's what got them into this mess (and the pansy-ass workaround of creating a corporation to run the festival). Have they paid off that money yet? Or are they still freeloading on civic goodwill?
Posted by Yo.

Re: This Makes Sense

TValley — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 20:41:39 -0700

Seattle Center is different than regular parks in many significant ways:

1) There are permanent organizations, with offices and facilities, on the grounds. Lots of them.

2) It is *constantly* being used for events. Just because they're not all vast festival-level extravaganzas doesn't mean the place is unoccupied. Quite the opposite.

3) Don't weep for gay pride man, they knew the expenses going into that arrangement, and the expenses are totally legit. (port-a-potties, traffic monitoring, etc.) They could have had it in a free public park if they had any sense, and should have. The people who said keep it on broadway were right.

Not a comment on this court ruling, just some comments on your comments.
Posted by TValley

Re: This Makes Sense

Catalina Vel-DuRay — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 20:14:48 -0700

Dominic, dear - allow me to jump in and clarify a bit of "pro labor"'s somewhat dubious posting.

First, as you yourself admit, Seattle Center is different, with its indoor plumbing, readily available electricity, etc. I think we can all agree that volunteers can't be expected to clean bathrooms, and we probably wouldn't want them messing too much with electricity. (In any event, the legal department/labor unions would probably insist that that isn't a good idea)

Thus, because Seattle Center is a complex space intended more for professional events, and there is that matter of labor contracts, and what can (and cannot) be done by whom, Seattle Center is always going to be more expensive.

Perhaps a better solution might be some sort of Seattle Center Foundation, that existed to underwrite worthy civic events that lack funds. But until then, it's always going to be pricier.

Unless an event is totally unorganized, of course. I don't think that anyone was charged anything for the impromptu gathering when Kurt Cobain died.

Posted by Catalina Vel-DuRay

Re: This Makes Sense

tacomagirl — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 20:06:05 -0700

Dominic...
Hardly used? Where do you get that? Did you see the Livestrong event or the Iranian Festival this last weekend? How about Folklife a few weeks before that? Have you seen the fountain on a warm day? The thousands of children during Kid's Fest? Fire Festival, Cherry Blossom Festival, Italian Festival, Free outdoor movies, the ice rink in winter.... concrete tundra? Really?
Posted by tacomagirl

Re: This Makes Sense

Strict Constructivist — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 20:00:23 -0700

Street Performers should thank Seattle officials for keeping them off the street -- they'll only end up being punching bags for wayward teen gangs.

Posted by Strict Constructivist

Re: This Makes Sense

josh — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 19:39:51 -0700

Is Seattle Center an entirely public-owned park? It certainly *seems* different.
Posted by josh

Re: This Makes Sense

Dominic Holden — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 19:15:13 -0700

@ 2) Union labor is great, but you miss the point. Why is any free-speech rally required to pay Seattle Center for labor costs when they would easily use their own staff or volunteers, like they do in the other city-managed spaces?
Posted by Dominic Holden

Re: This Makes Sense

Dominic Holden — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 18:52:29 -0700

@ 3) I'd be great with it. Parks are supposed to be used for rallies and protests--even ones with a message we detest. And maintaining those public spaces costs money, whether it's Seattle Center or Volunteer Park. But unlike a park, Seattle Center is designed for major events--it's got electricity, plumbing, built in bathrooms, amphitheaters--but it's hardly used.

Posted by Dominic Holden

Re: This Makes Sense

Carollani — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 18:49:13 -0700

Seattle Center should be begging for that big of a draw.
Posted by Carollani

Re: This Makes Sense

keshmeshi — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 18:48:17 -0700

Also why doesn't Pride use Myrtle Edwards? Could it be because Myrtle Edwards doesn't have the same amenities as Seattle Center? That shit ain't free either.

I'd like to see your reaction if Ken Hutcherson got the city to pick up the costs for an anti-homo rally at Seattle Center.
Posted by keshmeshi

Re: This Makes Sense

pro labor — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 18:43:31 -0700

So union employees are fine unless they cause homos money?
Posted by pro labor

Re: This Makes Sense

keshmeshi — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 18:41:53 -0700

Ever been to Seattle Center the day after any festival? The majority of the grass has to be reseeded. That shit isn't free.
Posted by keshmeshi