Comments On: "Slow the Fuck Down" Bill Passes in the House by Anna Minard http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2013/02/19/slow-the-fuck-down-bill-passes-in-the-house Comments On: "Slow the Fuck Down" Bill Passes in the House by Anna Minard en-us Copyright 2013 The Stranger. All rights reserved. This RSS file is offered to individuals, The Stranger readers, and non-commercial organizations only. Any commercial websites wishing to use this RSS file, please contact The Stranger. webmaster@thestranger.com (The Stranger Webmaster) Wed, 22 May 2013 00:00:01 -0700 Wed, 22 May 2013 21:00:00 -0700 Foundation http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss <![CDATA[Re: "Slow the Fuck Down" Bill Passes in the House]]> more traffic studies, not trying to block them.
Posted by Unbrainwashed]]> Thu, 21 Feb 2013 12:27:43 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: "Slow the Fuck Down" Bill Passes in the House]]> Posted by dirac]]> Thu, 21 Feb 2013 05:41:40 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: "Slow the Fuck Down" Bill Passes in the House]]>
But it's disingenuous to say this will have a noticeable impact on fatalities when we all know that high speed rear-end collisions and side impacts cause the highest amount of traffic fatalities by a much wider margin. If the Bike Alliance was concerned about fatalities, they'd get behind better driving behavior AND traffic engineering everywhere, without using the law to circumvent traffic engineering. Especially with the left lane campers and vigilante motorists of all kinds (e.g. bicyclists too).
Posted by dirac]]> Thu, 21 Feb 2013 05:37:21 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: "Slow the Fuck Down" Bill Passes in the House]]> Posted by Unbrainwashed]]> Wed, 20 Feb 2013 23:09:46 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: "Slow the Fuck Down" Bill Passes in the House]]>
If a cyclist runs a stop sign and gets hit by a driver that couldn't stop in time, that's the cyclist's fault, doesn't matter if the car was driven by a person or a computer. If a cyclist runs a stop sign and gets hit by a driver that should have been able to stop, that driver could be liable for the accident.

A human driver in that situation has some leeway to say, "I just didn't see him." A computer-driven car will have records of what it saw and when, and its decision algorithms for dealing with the scenario will be open to review.

If you were the parent whose child hit a ball into the street, which car would *you* want coming down the street right then, a distractable human with plausible deniability, or a robot that stays on task and records its actions?
Posted by jmp]]> Wed, 20 Feb 2013 20:37:37 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: "Slow the Fuck Down" Bill Passes in the House]]>
All of the other information used in considering speed limit changes is already present in city records"

That might be true if you're in a squeaky clean new suburb where the original drawings are all digitized and still accurate. But in the rest of the world, the speed survey is a trivial part of the overall cost of surveying and documentation of sight lines, lane widths, obstructions, and other conditions that go into setting the speed limit.

The last one I had to sign off on cost close to $3,000 simply to retain a 15mph speed limit on a 1.5-lane-wide street with a blind corner that's been there since the 1920s. That prompted me to write the Legislature yet again to support the bill this year. Small cities have been supporting this reform for years because of the cost of the current system for cities that don't have the engineering staff to do this work in-house. Seattle is a latecomer that brings leverage to get it passed, but they're hardly the source of the reform.
Posted by jmp]]> Wed, 20 Feb 2013 20:21:32 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: "Slow the Fuck Down" Bill Passes in the House]]> Posted by Unbrainwashed]]> Wed, 20 Feb 2013 14:25:20 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: "Slow the Fuck Down" Bill Passes in the House]]> Posted by Unbrainwashed]]> Wed, 20 Feb 2013 14:21:41 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: "Slow the Fuck Down" Bill Passes in the House]]>
Some people will support a law like this for reasons that have zero to do with "bicycles". Stop thinking the world revolves around bikes. 99% of us could have a crap about that side of it.
Posted by Joe Szilagyi]]> Wed, 20 Feb 2013 10:00:22 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: "Slow the Fuck Down" Bill Passes in the House]]> Posted by jmp]]> Wed, 20 Feb 2013 06:54:30 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: "Slow the Fuck Down" Bill Passes in the House]]>
Multi-billion-dollar corporations on the hook for the performance of their self-driving cars will produce vehicles that actually *obey the law* by yielding at crosswalks, driving safe speeds, passing at a safe distance, signaling turns, making full stops, obeying red lights, yielding when changing lanes, and all the other things that human drivers ignore when killing another 9/11 worth of Americans every single month.
Posted by jmp]]> Wed, 20 Feb 2013 06:49:34 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: "Slow the Fuck Down" Bill Passes in the House]]> Posted by Unbrainwashed]]> Tue, 19 Feb 2013 23:36:43 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: "Slow the Fuck Down" Bill Passes in the House]]>
http://transportationblog.dallasnews.com…

Posted by Supreme Ruler Of The Universe]]> Tue, 19 Feb 2013 21:40:20 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: "Slow the Fuck Down" Bill Passes in the House]]>
Funny, because it's always the po' I see racing through my 'hood. Yuppies in Subarus? Not so much.
Posted by Frederick the First]]> Tue, 19 Feb 2013 15:59:28 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: "Slow the Fuck Down" Bill Passes in the House]]> Posted by Unbrainwashed]]> Tue, 19 Feb 2013 15:50:52 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: "Slow the Fuck Down" Bill Passes in the House]]>
Explain to me how the all-powerful crypto-fascist bike lobby conspiring to destroy the city of Seattle. Their Manchurian candidate, Mayor McGinn, has so far of failed to meet any of their significant goals. When does the good part of the secret plan to make a city-wide 20mph speed limit go into effect?
Posted by emor]]> Tue, 19 Feb 2013 15:45:12 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: "Slow the Fuck Down" Bill Passes in the House]]>
Thus, if they're speeding through your neighborhood a traffic study would show that the speed limit should be set in order to allow them to continue to do so.
You think this because traffic engineers are ghouls who think it's fun to watch people die?

In spite of your gross mischaracterization, the 85th percentile rule is the baseline for determining a speed limit, not the final determining factor. Local conditions and other road users, to name two, are some of the other factors that must be considered.

But still I'm pleased to see the Bicycle Alliance of Washington go on record with this litany of invented facts. All the better to discredit you.
Posted by Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn]]> Tue, 19 Feb 2013 15:38:00 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: "Slow the Fuck Down" Bill Passes in the House]]> Posted by Unbrainwashed]]> Tue, 19 Feb 2013 15:25:45 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: "Slow the Fuck Down" Bill Passes in the House]]> Posted by seven]]> Tue, 19 Feb 2013 15:23:17 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: "Slow the Fuck Down" Bill Passes in the House]]> Posted by TheMisanthrope]]> Tue, 19 Feb 2013 14:58:13 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: "Slow the Fuck Down" Bill Passes in the House]]>
Thanks.

@51 You know how I know you didn't read the bill?

The changed text will read:
(3)(a) Cities and towns in their respective jurisdictions may establish a maximum speed limit of twenty miles per hour on a nonarterial highway, or part of a nonarterial highway, that is within a residence district or business district.
(b) A speed limit established under this subsection by a city or town does not need to be determined on the basis of an engineering and traffic investigation if the city or town has developed procedures regarding establishing a maximum speed limit under this subsection. Any speed limit established under this subsection may be canceled within one year of its establishment, and the previous speed limit reestablished, without an engineering and traffic investigation. This subsection does not otherwise affect the requirement that cities and towns conduct an engineering and traffic investigation to determine whether to increase speed limits.
(c) When establishing speed limits under this subsection, cities and towns shall consult the manual on uniform traffic control devices as adopted by the Washington state department of transportation.

Posted by TheMisanthrope]]> Tue, 19 Feb 2013 14:54:46 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: "Slow the Fuck Down" Bill Passes in the House]]>
"Highway" is defined as "A general term denoting a street, road or public way for purposes of vehicular travel, including the entire area within the right of way" (WAC 468-34-110, http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?…) and as "Every way, lane, road, street, boulevard, and every way or place in the state of Washington open as a matter of right to public vehicular travel both inside and outside the limits of incorporated cities and towns" (RCW 47.04.010, http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?…)

Most of us think of state highways and freeways when we use the term "highway," but that's not what it is in the code.
Posted by Barb Chamberlain]]> Tue, 19 Feb 2013 14:26:34 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: "Slow the Fuck Down" Bill Passes in the House]]>
For small cities in particular that don't have the staffing, an engineering study has to be contracted out at a cost estimated at around $1,000-$3,000--money they could spend fixing potholes instead of studying a 5mph change in the speed limit.

Cities have overall traffic and street plans developed by engineers; any change in speed limit occurs within the existing context of those plans. The bill would require a city that wants to take advantage of it to develop a specific process and the city certainly may use engineering expertise to set guidelines for that process. A city also isn't required to utilize this provision at all--it's an option, not a mandate like the existing statute.

Traffic engineers maintain that speed limits should be established according to the 85th percentile of free-flowing traffic. This means the limit would be set at a level at or under which 85 percent of people are driving. Thus, if they're speeding through your neighborhood a traffic study would show that the speed limit should be set in order to allow them to continue to do so. What people want to do isn't the only relevant standard, given the impacts on property values and the quality of life of the people who live on those streets.

Chapter 35.78 RCW requires cities and counties to adopt uniform definitions and design standards for municipal streets and roads. Standards for arterials are set through RCW 35.78.030 and RCW 35.78.040 by a state design standards committee in cooperation with the Washington State Department of Transportation. No deviation from the adopted design standards may be made without approval of the state aid engineer.

For detail on definitions of arterials and non-arterials, the adopted design manual PDF is here: http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/TA/Operations/LA….

For those who worry about speed traps being deliberately created, low-speed non-arterials are also generally low-volume streets, meaning there wouldn't be enough payoff to make it worthwhile.

Lowering the speed limit alone won't make a street safer, although posted speed limit reductions do bring down the average speed in a given stretch (per the NHTSA study already cited, http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/resea…). Safer traffic requires a combination of driver education and design changes over time.

Lowering the speed limit on side streets makes it safer for drivers as well as for pedestrians and bicyclists, although obviously the latter are more likely to be injured in any collision. As people age they become even more vulnerable, so at the very point in their lives when people may need to give up driving and use transit more, they're more fragile and suffer more serious injuries if struck by a vehicle.

None of which will change the minds of some of those commenting here, I know--just offering the information.

Barb Chamberlain
Executive Director
Bicycle Alliance of Washington
(The organization that brought the legislation in the first place)

Posted by Barb Chamberlain]]> Tue, 19 Feb 2013 14:21:31 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: "Slow the Fuck Down" Bill Passes in the House]]>
There's no such thing as a "non-arterial highway".

@30,

Have you asked SDOT to put in speed bumps? They'll supposedly do it if you ask. Although I wouldn't count on it happening anytime soon.
Posted by keshmeshi]]> Tue, 19 Feb 2013 14:19:45 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: "Slow the Fuck Down" Bill Passes in the House]]>
The Economist article isn't calling for a few 20mph signs. It's describing the benefits of comprehensive traffic calming, based on serious engineering. Not excited neighborhood activists and pandering politicians.

It costs money to implement all that. Nobody wants to spend money. They want speed traps to bring money in, not out.
Posted by Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn]]> Tue, 19 Feb 2013 14:12:35 -0800 The Stranger