Comments On: To Avoid Rape, "Try not to show fear." by Anna Minard http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2013/02/13/to-avoid-rape-try-not-to-show-fear Comments On: To Avoid Rape, "Try not to show fear." by Anna Minard en-us Copyright 2013 The Stranger. All rights reserved. This RSS file is offered to individuals, The Stranger readers, and non-commercial organizations only. Any commercial websites wishing to use this RSS file, please contact The Stranger. webmaster@thestranger.com (The Stranger Webmaster) Wed, 22 May 2013 00:00:01 -0700 Wed, 22 May 2013 07:00:00 -0700 Foundation http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss <![CDATA[Re: To Avoid Rape, "Try not to show fear."]]> Posted by diogenes1]]> Tue, 26 Feb 2013 20:07:36 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: To Avoid Rape, "Try not to show fear."]]>
"He was murdered."

"A man was mugged last night."

"There have been a series of break-ins in the Wedgewood District."

"A house caught on fire."

"Last night, another teenager was shot in South Seattle."

Just saying, that rape doesn't get special avoidance treatment in the news. You don't say "A rapist raped a woman." Or, "A predator raped a woman." Sometimes you get "A man raped a woman last night."

Frequently, the news puts the victim first in the sentence, which is usually somebody who had something done to them. Why? The victim is generally considered the subject of the news. It's not exclusive to rape victims.

As a side note, this is why many kids suck at writing. They frequently use the passive voice because of its prevalent use in the media.
Posted by TheMisanthrope]]> Mon, 18 Feb 2013 15:29:45 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: To Avoid Rape, "Try not to show fear."]]>
That's passive voice. Notice who's missing: the rapist. The rape just happens. The responsible party is so often left out of the picture, particularly re: rape prevention.

You cannot control the actions of another person. Yet, our culture expects that of women re: sex and rape. Our culture holds women responsible for men's supposed insatiable, uncontrollable sexuality. Trust, women have PhDs in "How to avoid your own rape". Meanwhile, men, case in point: this thread, THINK they know better. You don't. Get over it.

The culture needs to shift the focus to the active: "he raped." Who is responsible for rape? Rapists. Der. BUT they depend on a culture that ignores them. A culture that says: she got raped, not: he raped her. She she she she. SHE. He's nowhere. Probably off getting another she raped.

Men need to be held accountable. Men need to hold other men accountable. It's probably awkward being a man when other men not you do things like rape women, or worse children, but, as some manplainer said up thread, that's just reality. I'm crying rivers for you.

Moving onto the point of this post and thread: we need to ACTIVELY and thoroughly teach boys and men how not to rape, the meaning of bodily autonomy and what that means in the oh so confusing contexts of dating, sex, relationships and general participation in society, with particular focus on consent. Masculinity is tied up in this. What attitudes toward women do men actively accept or just tolerate from others in front of other men?


Posted by femwanderluster]]> Mon, 18 Feb 2013 15:13:57 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: To Avoid Rape, "Try not to show fear."]]>
From comment 4:
Yes, the culture needs to change. I completely agree. But in the meantime, I think it's nice to provide advice to people who want it.


THAT'S a comment by a rape apologist?

Jesus fuck, get some fucking perspective you goddamn fucking misandrist.

/curse words added to match tone of your comment, maybe to aid in reading comprehension
Posted by TheMisanthrope]]> Mon, 18 Feb 2013 14:03:40 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: To Avoid Rape, "Try not to show fear."]]>
Anna, thank you for writing this. Just, thank you. It is refreshing as fuck to hear published works talk about *rapists* as the fucking problem instead of *rape victims* not being unattractive enough as victims, since as you said, that whoooole line of reasoning only ever boils down to a sludge of steaming What The Fuck.

Also, a belated, FUCK YOU to every stupid man who immediately piled on to say, 'The police had rational advice! I do the same thing every day!' because HOLY FUCK, MEN - YOU ARE NOT THE AVERAGE RAPE TARGET. That is why this seems to make sense to you, assholes! It works for you because YOU'RE NOT TYPICAL RAPE TARGETS. Jesus fuck.
Posted by happyhedonist]]> Mon, 18 Feb 2013 11:38:51 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: To Avoid Rape, "Try not to show fear."]]> Posted by wilbur@work]]> Sun, 17 Feb 2013 09:25:39 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: To Avoid Rape, "Try not to show fear."]]> Posted by Some women with aggression issues here...]]> Sat, 16 Feb 2013 18:45:34 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: To Avoid Rape, "Try not to show fear."]]>
I've had the conviction to put my own thoughts out there.

You haven't.

You hide behind other people's links, and pretend to have said what's on your mind. Pretending to have said something other than attacking people, or parroting what other voices above have had the courage to say without adding anything but links.

Here's a hint. Everybody else uses the links as SUPPLEMENTS to their thoughts. Not as their entire thought

But, explaining how you are being a moron will just go over your head. AGAIN. Ah well.
Posted by TheMisanthrope]]> Sat, 16 Feb 2013 15:50:49 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: To Avoid Rape, "Try not to show fear."]]> Hopefully you will take the time to go do your own research. Or not. Probably not. I don't think any one has any illusions about that at this point. Or about you.
Ah well.
Posted by Lissa]]> Sat, 16 Feb 2013 15:28:40 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: To Avoid Rape, "Try not to show fear."]]>
"I haven't mentioned any actual content because" is still not mentioning any actual content.

I asked what you would say as a police officer. You said you'd point to links. I said that's ineffective. You said that's because I didn't actually say anything.

Well, no shit, Sherlock.

Wake me when you say something original and substantive, instead of just pointing to other people's shit.
Posted by TheMisanthrope]]> Sat, 16 Feb 2013 12:33:52 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: To Avoid Rape, "Try not to show fear."]]> you Misanthrope.
I specifically picked links from men's websites for a number of reasons. Feminist websites would have given you the opportunity to dismiss the messages as not relevant or anti male. I pointed you to them instead of rephrasing their content to allow you to judge for yourself and also to cut you off from accusing me of womansplaining which as you had already indicated in post 170 you were clearly itching to do. It is also telling that the only link you have mentioned (twice now) is the one regarding misogyny in gaming. Not Men Can Stop Rape, not Stop Street Harassment, not The Good Men Project, not RAIIN. Why's that? Was it because you couldn't find any fault with them?

You castigate others, and yet have not yourself offered a single substantive suggestion, or even a link that would indicate you've given this topic more that a cursory thought. It is not my job to do your thinking and research for you. I pointed you to resources provided by other men that could give you a framework, as a man, to work against rape.

But that is neither here nor there. If you would like to be an ally, great, (though that seems unlikely) but if as a gay man you feel that all you have to contribute is not sleeping with women, then may I just remind you that men rape other men. So you are not off the hook. Either as a potential victim or perpetrator for that matter. Maybe you should take another look at those links with that in mind.

You may be surprised to discover that your disappointment is not something I take into consideration.


Posted by Lissa]]> Sat, 16 Feb 2013 12:17:25 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: To Avoid Rape, "Try not to show fear."]]>
Jeez. I had you pegged wrong. I thought you had actual substance to your thought processes. An original thought, or at least a condensation of substance. Not just the usurpation of other people's thoughts. No wonder you linked to misogyny in gaming. No, seriously.

You know what? I'm going to answer your question with something just as useful and thoughtful as your answer. I'm going to have sex with men. Yes. I'm not going to rape women by having sex with men. No women will be assaulted in this endeavor.

Jesus. I really thought you'd have something to say. I guess I was wrong about that. I am disappoint.
Posted by TheMisanthrope]]> Sat, 16 Feb 2013 11:02:22 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: To Avoid Rape, "Try not to show fear."]]> getting it. You and I are pretty much on the same page. Hell, there isn't a woman on here, Anna included, (despite the deliberately obtuse braying of a certain segment of the Commentariat to the contrary) who doesn't understand the importance of personal safety. That wasn't what pissed Anna off, and it isn't what got me embroiled in this very loooooooooooong thread.

Last night I fell asleep angry, and depressed at what seemed to me a sisyphean task. Men like ortolan and Blue, and of course, the Misanthrope, and others (so many others) who for whatever reason, are unwilling to address the root problem. That telling women to make their lives tiny isn't enough. Maybe it's just that it's not their ox being gored. I don't know. There's only so much energy to go around and maybe they're saving theirs for something else.

Reading your comment, has made me feel a little better. Thank you.
Posted by Lissa]]> Sat, 16 Feb 2013 09:54:44 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: To Avoid Rape, "Try not to show fear."]]>
But the one thing that pisses me off is not the advice about clothes--it's the inevitable "we can wear whatever we want wherever we want" response to wear sensible shoes. Clothes do make the person and advertise for us, and far too many times I see idiot twentysomething women go out dressed looking like the local whores and then get offended when someone asks their price. Don't flaunt it if you've got it and wonder why someone looks (without touching, as happens most of the time).

I get it, I really do--people should be able to wear what they want wherever whenever, but that doesn't mean they get to be surprised by the attention their clothes attract. Or that stiletto heels are easy to walk in, much less run in.
Posted by common sense =/= burqa]]> Sat, 16 Feb 2013 09:25:05 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: To Avoid Rape, "Try not to show fear."]]>
I did take the trouble to scroll through yours and others comments and I don't see how what I said is affected. The truth is that good advice remains good advice. That I did not go beyond this truism and cure cancer is a failing, I admit. I wrote addressing the actual SLOG post, not the vomitus that followed.

Also, repeating the good advice is a good thing. Not only are new people joining the planet who have not heard the good advice but scientific studies show (science!) that people forget things pretty quickly, especially when under duress - this is one reason why flight attendants repeat the same story about exits and oxygen masks and seatbelts on every goddamned flight.
Posted by BLUE]]> Sat, 16 Feb 2013 07:21:52 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: To Avoid Rape, "Try not to show fear."]]> http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archive…). Many apartment complexes uses security cameras as a way to deter criminals from preying on their residents. Also many parking lots use them in similar manner.
Posted by j2patter]]> Sat, 16 Feb 2013 01:02:39 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: To Avoid Rape, "Try not to show fear."]]> Posted by Amanda]]> Sat, 16 Feb 2013 00:51:13 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: To Avoid Rape, "Try not to show fear."]]>
Anna, I think you've reading too much into the SPD advice. Just googling Seattle Police Department safety tips came up with a bunch of articles where the SPD repeat the same advice for different scenarios.

http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2…
http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2…
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.c…
http://seattletimes.com/html/theblotter/…
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.c… (This one doesn't explicit state the tips but does mention that 1200 leaflets featuring safety tips were giving out in downtown Seattle following muggings).
http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2… (same as above, leaflets sent home parents featuring safety tips after a robber).
http://www.phinneywood.com/tag/seattle-p…

Also looking at the SPD site, it seems they give this advice for a bunch of different crime prevention

http://www.seattle.gov/police/prevention…
http://www.seattle.gov/police/prevention…
http://www.seattle.gov/police/prevention…

There are great points to be made about rape culture and what can be done to prevent it. And yes there is a huge culture aspect to it, and more needs to be done then just telling women to better protect themselves. As Men it's something we owe to our wives, mothers, sisters, daughters, friends to discuss and to do as much as we can to fight rape culture. But accusing the police depart of furthering rape culture with their safety tips is unfair as these are their boilerplate tips for personal safety. If they gave these tips only for rape, it would be upsetting and unfair and furthering rape culture. But they give these tips out to the public anytime there's a pattern of crimes against persons.

I can understand how you feel frustrated at these tips and feel the need for a much larger discussion. But lets have that conversation then, as this discussion seems to be more "The SPD tips are good tips for Personal safety" vs "There is much more to be done to prevent Rape Culture". Both of those things are true and neither side is taking the time to listen to the other side.

Anyways...I hope the SPD catch this guy soon and my heart goes out to the victims


Posted by j2patter]]> Sat, 16 Feb 2013 00:45:42 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: To Avoid Rape, "Try not to show fear."]]> Posted by Amanda]]> Sat, 16 Feb 2013 00:26:32 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: To Avoid Rape, "Try not to show fear."]]> Posted by ortolan]]> Fri, 15 Feb 2013 23:02:42 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: To Avoid Rape, "Try not to show fear."]]> "I answered your question in Post 198.

Here, I'll tell you again: Follow The Advice. That's my answer. But in addition to following the SPD advice, More. Needs. To. Be. Done. And by more I mean the sort of things I linked to that will help to change our culture.
Read them."

You don't like this answer I know. But kick and fuss all you like it's not going to change.

Now. Do you have anything to contribute? One assumes since you are so very vocal in your criticisms here that you have given this topic a great deal of thought, and must have something of value to present.

Posted by Lissa]]> Fri, 15 Feb 2013 20:15:13 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: To Avoid Rape, "Try not to show fear."]]>
If you were a police officer, what would you say? Would you say, "here's some advice. But it isn't enough. You'll be getting raped even if you follow these rules because some unsocialized nerd calls you a bitch while playing Halo." Really? Would you say that?

Would you launch into a 45 minute diatribe on sexism and misogyny? Instead of delivering a brief bulletin alert about a rapist, would you rant on about how unfair it is to follow rules?

What the fuck would you say as a cop?
Posted by TheMisanthrope]]> Fri, 15 Feb 2013 18:54:51 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: To Avoid Rape, "Try not to show fear."]]> Now then, answer mine.
Since the status quo is demonstrably inadequate, do you have any ideas of your own on how to work against rape, and if so what are they?
We know you approve of the list, and we know that you don't feel that the SPD needs to do more than they already are, but rather that it is the job of EVERYBODY ELSE to. A group of which, since you have not said otherwise, you are presumably a member.

So. We await your contribution.


Posted by Lissa]]> Fri, 15 Feb 2013 18:30:03 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: To Avoid Rape, "Try not to show fear."]]>
Just because I want an answer to a question asked many times and not answered once. Christ, you're a fucking moron.
Posted by TheMisanthrope]]> Fri, 15 Feb 2013 18:04:36 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: To Avoid Rape, "Try not to show fear."]]>
If Lissa did give you the complete and full answer you're insisting upon, you'd then complain that it wasn't good enough, didn't include something important, was too broad or too specific. You'd find some damn nit to pick, because you have this need to control the discussion around rape.

I find this interesting.
Posted by clashfan]]> Fri, 15 Feb 2013 17:46:33 -0800 The Stranger