http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2013/01/31/straight-guys-more-depressed-and-stressed-than-out-gay-and-bi-guys Comments On: Straight Guys More Depressed and Stressed Than Out Gay and Bi Guys by Dan Savage en-us Copyright 2013 The Stranger. All rights reserved. This RSS file is offered to individuals, The Stranger readers, and non-commercial organizations only. Any commercial websites wishing to use this RSS file, please contact The Stranger. webmaster@thestranger.com (The Stranger Webmaster) Wed, 22 May 2013 00:00:01 -0700 Wed, 22 May 2013 05:30:00 -0700 Foundation http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss
As for the second part, I was speculating that those men who are punished are the ones who give off an air of only wanting their own issues settled. I'll stand by that. As I said in my initial post, my sympathies lie with the non-stone-casters themselves - if there aren't very many of them, it's not my fault.

You have legitimate concers, and I agree that there are those who pretend to acknowledge the legitimacy only to make them Item #14 on an agenda when only twelve items will be considered. But one thing I shall tell you, and of this I am quite certain - if we make straight men's lives wonderful and better than ever as Item #1, then the bad straight men (who are not the whole group, but whose actions will stain the whole group, and I can see it's unfair but I've no capital to spend in correcting that) will take the whole pie and not give anybody else a piece because that's what they've always done whenever they could. If there were a magic way to distinguish which straight men really were in for the whole agenda and which only wanted their own problems fixed... but is there? And, in the end, I do suspect that what would be BEST for straight men (and perhaps to a lesser extent for straight women) is essentially anti-gay. There may be no way to give everybody her or his ideal of the best possible life with all problems solved as far as possible, as sometimes one pie can perhaps be stretched to 1.25 pies, but not to the full two needed. What to do? I'm sure I don't know.

But, if it makes you feel any better, I don't think same-sexers either male or female would be much better off in a matriarchy, as Ms Wander made the usual point that same-sexer problems are entirely a subset of feminist problems, which, while our interests do overlap to a great extent, is so far from true that the 10% or so of disagreement outweighs the 90% of commonality.

Personally, I do feel some SM complaints are legitimate, but legitimacy does not equal automatic entitlement to the #1 spot on the agenda. Yes, you have every right to complain about that, but you have rather dominated that particular position, which removes a bit of the potential sting of the complaint.
Posted by vennominon]]> Tue, 05 Feb 2013 15:22:17 -0800 The Stranger
Oh, and you aren't exactly the first to basically stain by passive-aggressive association: if a man brings up an issue then, well, it must be because he really don't want change. You're rather like the poster in the "war on men" thread who defined "ally" as being synonymous with somebody who followed and always sublimated their legitimate goals to your legitimate goals.
Posted by seeker6079]]> Tue, 05 Feb 2013 07:53:25 -0800 The Stranger
As far as "punishment" goes, a large part of it could rest in whether one saw the changing of times as inevitable and necessary, however individually disadvantageous. Perhaps straight men who give off a flavour of kinda-sorta-partly wishing on some level that things didn't really have to change get punished more often, but it's just an idea.
Posted by vennominon]]> Tue, 05 Feb 2013 06:28:25 -0800 The Stranger Posted by seeker6079]]> Mon, 04 Feb 2013 11:18:04 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Chris in Vancouver WA]]> Mon, 04 Feb 2013 10:50:04 -0800 The Stranger not following them the next day. (2) Ditto within individual relationships. (3) Straight boys are often held to the "work" part of the bargain, but denied the "reward" part. [Leave aside the fact that the dynamic is fucked up -- it is -- but as long as the dynamic persists in the metaculture you can't only hold one side to the bargain.] (4) Our culture both over-worships and over-criticizes straight male sexuality. (5) The therapy culture pathologizes straight male sexuality. (I have seen therapists write reports criticizing husbands for ... wanting sex with their wives!). (6) [and perhaps the most damaging part] Straight boys are the only ones not allowed to complain, and if they do complain they are dissed as whiners who have no right to complain because, hell, no-one has it as good as they do.
Posted by seeker6079]]> Mon, 04 Feb 2013 07:42:54 -0800 The Stranger know how to address the lack of sex problem. That's what makes it a problem. If we did know, it wouldn't be a problem, and we'd all be more relaxed. But it's a nice start to just acknowledge it as a huge source of stress for a.h.j. apparently. Savage-Love-anecdotally.

The solution to the problem will not come from analyzing gender roles though. I'm almost certain of it.
Posted by LateBloomer]]> Sun, 03 Feb 2013 16:49:52 -0800 The Stranger Posted by LateBloomer]]> Sun, 03 Feb 2013 15:47:48 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Paxlotl]]> Sun, 03 Feb 2013 12:45:54 -0800 The Stranger
How do you want to see men's sexuality, or the issue of sexual deprivation, portrayed in the media? I'd say the most common representation we see is this: a man is alone, he acts heroically, he is rewarded with romantic connection/sex.
Posted by diner mo]]> Sun, 03 Feb 2013 01:31:11 -0800 The Stranger
#125 makes a good point. It seems that that male sexuality is both pathologized and pandered to by the media. Although you could say the same about women's, but in a different way.
Posted by BlueSparrow]]> Sun, 03 Feb 2013 00:44:33 -0800 The Stranger
As for the femin in my ism - this means that I operate from the belief that women have been and continue to be most overtly disadvantaged by our inherited gender roles, and it's worth it for all of us to change this. Men get shortchanged too, but because the system puts them in positions of power and gives them other very tangible payoffs in exchange for limitations, they are less likely to notice or be motivated to change the system, or to want to critique their own role in it - hence the confused/lacklustre nature of various men's rights movements.

Anyway, back to tricking men into being gay so I can have my way with them before escaping to my sapphic love-den.
Posted by diner mo]]> Sat, 02 Feb 2013 23:26:03 -0800 The Stranger notwithstanding)

Christ.
Posted by LateBloomer]]> Sat, 02 Feb 2013 21:42:49 -0800 The Stranger
We did have a thorough look at my conviction that feminism, by definition, involves some baseline anti-male...something. Not necessarily agenda or bias but...flavor perhaps? It's feminism after all, not maninism, or peopleism even. It's not supposed to give a rat's ass about men (disingenuous protests to the contrary), because then there's not much femin left in your ism. If you do, then you're shifting your focus onto improving society in general, and that's great, but now you're a humanist.

We agreed to disagree.

Also, it doesn't help that I appear to have an allergic reaction to the terms "patriarchy", "privilege", "dominant discourse" etc. I start to twitch, not sure why. PTSD from my undergrad perhaps.

My reference to wanting more sex was (mostly) tongue in cheek. In regards your own lack: I understand there are several millionaires on seekingarrangements. Good luck!

For further discussion, I refer everyone to the wisdom of mythofgaymales above. Wow.
Posted by LateBloomer]]> Sat, 02 Feb 2013 21:34:57 -0800 The Stranger Posted by diner mo]]> Sat, 02 Feb 2013 19:52:50 -0800 The Stranger
So a man is either a philanderer, or a pervert, or a pedophile or simply a buffoon, such as Al Bundy in Married With Children, because he seeks to satisfy what is obviously a very primal need. Meanwhile because he is seen as top dog in the social hierarchy he is not able to complain about it.

The number of pornography sites, strip clubs, illicit relationships and Internet scandals should be a clue that there is a huge unmet need for a large portion of society. Yet it is almost never talked about, or else it is presented as a pathology, as in the case here where Mr. Savage contrasts the "healthful" gay lifestyle versus the frustrations of a straight male.

Yes, I agree, turnabout is fair play since our society has demonized homosexuality as a disease, but once we end the game of "I got you back" then what is the answer other than saving up your money for the day that Samsung starts mass producing fembots?
Posted by Supreme Ruler Of The Universe]]> Sat, 02 Feb 2013 13:36:42 -0800 The Stranger
Men,woman is man,when GOD formed woman from man all his desires,likes(beauty) and dislikes(ugly) passed on to her. Man love beauty,but commonly lack beauty. Woman love beauty,and commonly is beautiful.The mystery about the wo(man) is that she is just like man towards the same thing.Woman love woman more because they are beautiful.

When you saw females skipping down the street holding hands,and calling one another girlfriend your intuition told you,thats not natural,but when you saw the whole town of females doing the same thing you encourage yourself with the lie "thats just what females do".
You didn't want to believe that all these females were homosexuals especially when you are there freely ready to be with them....your intuition was right. You know that "man" at the end of wo(man),stop ignoying it,its there for a reason. Woman is man,just the "weaker vessel man".
I'm gay,heterosexual by nature,I liken woman to me,we both pefer women,but if a man is hot,we will have sex with him as well. I liken women to heterosexual man,they both going to stick with the woman.

find me on twitter @WatersZeus


Posted by mythofgaymales]]> Sat, 02 Feb 2013 11:58:54 -0800 The Stranger Straight guy is stressed,because he has to pay to have sex with the women,and if caught he's jailed while shes seen as the victim. Straight guy is stressed because he lack the outward appearance to compete against women for the woman. Straight guy is stressed because nomatter how the woman treat him,its seen as his fault.

The gay male are formerly straight males,the male are sexual being and if he's not able to have sex with that with is natural,he will have sex with that which is against nature.The male didn't reject the female sexually,but the female rejected him because of his outward appearance. The wo(man) then being a man also willfully goes behind the mans back and have sex with the woman. She acts like she's not sexual in front of the males face,but for ages has fornicated with her female friend behind his back.

I'm gay,straight by nature,the women love homosexuality and gay males being dominant heterosexual often invite the woman into their bedroom...and they come in.

find me on twitter @WatersZeus

Posted by mythofgaymales]]> Sat, 02 Feb 2013 10:58:50 -0800 The Stranger
The woman each and everyday is using the male to leave the natural use of the male,to be join with the woman. Women not only sexually reject the man,but push the government to pass laws & regulations to block the man away.The woman also for ages has willfully rejected the man,and went behind his back and fornicated with her female friend aka "girlfriend".
The man seeing this,change his form from male to female,can you imagine that? Once push away as a sexual predator,and a pervert,but now women can't keep their hands or lips off him.
find me on twitter @WatersZeus
Posted by mythofgaymales]]> Sat, 02 Feb 2013 09:09:19 -0800 The Stranger
I remember a gay male told me that as long as he act like he just like males they enjoy having sex with him,but when his hetero nature come to the surface,it turns them off...women causes confusion.

Again that gay male that just desire males don't exist...its a myth that you women & men are always forcing down our throats. All males are hetero by nature,if he turns to homosexuality,his nature still remains with him,and it easily comes to the surface when around women.We are more heterosexual than the woman gender,its not even close.
Homosexual male means that besides a woman,he will sleep with a man,not he just like men. I liken the woman to gay males,we both perfer women,but if a male is hot,we will sleep with him as well.
I liken women also to heterosexual males,they both will stick with the woman sexually...
......

When a man says he's bi-sexual,the woman from "sun up" to "sun down" search to hook him up with a man,when she realize he's more into her, than she quickly stop associating with him.
In time he decides to play the "myth gay male", you know the male that is supposedly only sexually attracted to males. *Gay males are sexually attracted to women just like women are sexually attracted to women. Anyway when he plays this male,then they allow him to get close to them,and the weird part is when he improve on his outward appearance,then they start desiring to sleep with him.What? We are heterosexual by nature,we yield to the woman...happily.

find me on twitter @WatersZeus

Posted by mythofgaymales]]> Sat, 02 Feb 2013 08:56:47 -0800 The Stranger Males did not reject the woman,but the woman rejected him,gay males are always open to have sex with the woman,and a little dirty secret is when a male turn to homosexuality,then they desire to sleep with him. Gay male couples often invite the woman into their bedroom,and they come right on in. The male that just like males don't exist,our heterosexual nature remains with us for life,when around women we easily become heterosexual inclined.
But the woman for ages have willfully rejected the male,then would secretly go behind his back and fornicate with her female friend. This has & is still going on,and women don't care if shes married or unmarried.

find me on twitter @WatersZeus
Posted by mythofgaymales]]> Sat, 02 Feb 2013 07:51:49 -0800 The Stranger
About needing to get laid more - @114 too: my stress in life would basically go away if I had about $3m. It's true. Soooo... where to from there?


Posted by diner mo]]> Fri, 01 Feb 2013 22:23:20 -0800 The Stranger
I just can't get around the fact that, despite my earlier support for feminism, it has probably caused me more stress and confusion than the traditional gender role I'm supposed to resent. This could very well be the result of my misunderstanding feminism, I don't know. Basically, I grew tired of hearing that my sexuality and my gender were a problem, and right or wrong I ascribe that message to feminism. So when Femw tries to spin that message as, "It's not you that's the problem, it's the system," I find that disingenuous and unhelpful.

So, to bring things back to the issue at hand, feeling apologetic about my identity has definitely been one source of stress for this straight guy.

But mostly I just need to get laid more. :)
Posted by LateBloomer]]> Fri, 01 Feb 2013 21:29:45 -0800 The Stranger
Beyond men's behaviour and women's behaviour, patriarchy also happens through institutions, where responsibility for the total effect cannot be pinned to individual men or individual women. Unfair family court decisions that cast men as financial providers only and undermine their relational needs for time with their kids are, in my view, perfect examples of institutional patriarchy.

To me the labour (and pleasure) of my 20 years as a feminist has in bulk been in countering and dismantling the patriarchy as it happens INSIDE ME. I probably don't require a medal, but if you think feminism is really and truly only about making men fix it, maybe that's just because are not seeing the rest of the work that individual women do every day to evolve the gender mess we've all inherited.
Posted by diner mo]]> Fri, 01 Feb 2013 19:52:28 -0800 The Stranger Posted by ThetaSigma]]> Fri, 01 Feb 2013 19:23:52 -0800 The Stranger