http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2013/01/18/josh-marshall-speaks-for-the-non-gun-owning-tribe Comments On: Josh Marshall Speaks For His Tribe: Non-Gun Owners by Dan Savage en-us Copyright 2013 The Stranger. All rights reserved. This RSS file is offered to individuals, The Stranger readers, and non-commercial organizations only. Any commercial websites wishing to use this RSS file, please contact The Stranger. webmaster@thestranger.com (The Stranger Webmaster) Sat, 18 May 2013 00:00:01 -0700 Sat, 18 May 2013 13:00:00 -0700 Foundation http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss
You're not a liberal. You're a sockpuppet. You're aghast at the slippery slope of the extremely mild assault weapons ban, but not the vast government overreach of Obamacare? Doesn't compute.

The reason Josh Marshall's opinions have bearing is that he's not just venting. He's saying he has a right to live in a gun-free community. Meaning restricting guns. What you're doing is being dense to avoid the point he's trying to make, and conclude, along with the gun lobby, that only the opinions of gun owners are relevant to the discussion.

It's the way you get your script directly from the NRA playbook that shows you're a phony.
Posted by Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn]]> Sun, 20 Jan 2013 12:05:25 -0800 The Stranger Posted by sperifera]]> Sat, 19 Jan 2013 14:47:27 -0800 The Stranger Posted by scary tyler moore]]> Sat, 19 Jan 2013 14:25:11 -0800 The Stranger
We also have a handgun ban and strict rules about licensing ( must go through police), storage (must be stored and transported diassembled and separate from ammo) and usage (not for self defence).

Even the police here don't carry guns for day to day business. It's not a perfect system but the last time someone shot up a school here was in 1926...

Posted by Annamal2111]]> Sat, 19 Jan 2013 13:42:56 -0800 The Stranger
So guns scare him. Big deal. That's how he feels and that's his right. It has no bearing or effect on my life or my right to self-defense.
Posted by CPN]]> Sat, 19 Jan 2013 11:54:53 -0800 The Stranger
Fuck that bullshit to fucking hell. He had to me to this point, cops are just as dangerous with their guns as anyone else. It shouldn't be expected that every cop carry a gun at all times but they should all be trained in many different crisis management styles and then guns as a last resort. The rest of the paragraph with the not wanting guns around playground public spaces, I get that there's a second amendment but come the fuck on you don't need an assault rifle to walk around fucking green lake.
Posted by watchout5]]> Sat, 19 Jan 2013 03:55:03 -0800 The Stranger
please make a note of it.
Posted by bang.]]> Fri, 18 Jan 2013 20:03:28 -0800 The Stranger
wow.

based on your experience every gun owner should be dead by now.

or maybe you run in a really dysfunctional pack.
Posted by we feel sorry for you]]> Fri, 18 Jan 2013 20:01:37 -0800 The Stranger Posted by OutInBumF]]> Fri, 18 Jan 2013 19:32:24 -0800 The Stranger I was raised with and around guns, and am a supporter of the 2nd amendment, but not what the NRA and gun lobby has become. I'm torn by the description of your incident with the 4 frat boys- and see both sides of the 'to threaten or not to threaten' argument. Can't take a side there.
But what I want to ask the 2nd Amendment zealots: exactly what part of "a well-organized militia" are you? Any attempt to organize anything is shouted and threatened down instantly, and that includes things like background checks, registering guns, requiring safety training, etc. NO DISCUSSION OF ANYTHING, EVER! is all the NRA has brought to the table post-Sandy Hook. Very poor response from people trying to persuade anyone. Much more like school-yard thugs.
Posted by OutInBumF]]> Fri, 18 Jan 2013 19:29:01 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Free Lunch]]> Fri, 18 Jan 2013 19:25:03 -0800 The Stranger Posted by gnot]]> Fri, 18 Jan 2013 17:14:12 -0800 The Stranger Posted by gnot]]> Fri, 18 Jan 2013 17:08:23 -0800 The Stranger
Thank you very much, that actually does mean a lot to me. As I have said before I find you to be very intelligent and generally agree or at least respect your opinions on most thing, your literal proficiency is above that of most of this papers staff. Plus Will in Seattle needs a handler. I too wish you well in life.

I too sincerely hope that I never ever have to use a firearm against another human being, it is one of the worst things that can happen to both parties involved. Owning a gun is one should not be taken lightly, it is one of the most serious responsibilities an individual can undertake, you are literally carrying death. Nothing will ever put that bullet after the trigger is pulled. I treat my guns as if there is a laser coming out the muzzle that constantly destroys anything it touches, it is not a toy but a tool to be treated with the utmost respect. It is something that philosophically changes a person. Ironically since this Sandy Hook I have sold off most of my semiautomatic firearms, only to valid concealed permit holders or well known friends, prices being what they are. The amount of email that I have received saying "I are want 2 buy yer gunz." is certainly disturbing, I could not sell to such people in good conscious regardless of price.

As a gun owner who carries concealed I agree there should be stricter requirements in regards to licensing. It should be at least as hard to get a Concealed Pistol License as it is to get a hunting license. Hunters safety consist of 12 hours of safety education followed by a test then a live fire test to ensure one can shoot accurately enough to kill and not wound an animal. This education is provided free by Washington State. I would love to see a similar program enacted for the Concealed Carry License combined with study of the legal aspects and shoot/no shoot scenarios. In fact I think everyone should have safety training, many accidents occur because people do not understand how firearms function, nor the basic rules of keep it pointed in a safe direction and keep your finger off the trigger, as well as drilling the "Don't touch a gun, tell an adult." for school children. Guns are not going to disappear, chances are everyone will run it to one at some point in their life and needs to know how to safely approach the situation.

Also you are right about my perspectives being changed, but not so much by the gun, but by my lives circumstances. Though I have owned a rifle for most of my adult life, it mainly sat in the closet and was occasionally taken out for target practice. It was a AK47 variant that I probably would not have purchased had it not been for the 94 ban. But hat really changed me was when I took a job in correction after being laid off from being a lab technician. For better or worse being put into that situation shattered many on the values I had grown up with. I for the first real time was confronted with true evil, evil that could only be stopped with naked force. I ended up quitting and switched to Emergency Medicine where many of the same lessons were reinforced, I have seen enough death and suffering for one lifetime. Despite this I do try to treat all people I meet IRL with the respect due to all human beings despite their social standing, something that is sadly missing from much of the industry.

I think that recently there has been a lot of fiery rhetoric coming from both sides of the issue, I think we can both safely say we have been guilty of it. Seeing firearms dealers close not due to law but lack of inventory has me terrified. Prices are skyrocketing when semi auto rifles or ammunition can even be found. It seems as if the country is raiding the armory and preparing for war, which is something I never want to see. We can only hope that cooler heads prevail.

Posted by Cascadian Bacon]]> Fri, 18 Jan 2013 16:09:16 -0800 The Stranger Posted by gnot]]> Fri, 18 Jan 2013 15:51:40 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Beetlecat]]> Fri, 18 Jan 2013 15:51:11 -0800 The Stranger Posted by gnot]]> Fri, 18 Jan 2013 15:41:34 -0800 The Stranger Posted by gnot]]> Fri, 18 Jan 2013 15:35:05 -0800 The Stranger Posted by ScienceNerd]]> Fri, 18 Jan 2013 14:59:17 -0800 The Stranger
I'd rather be afraid of guns than afraid of the world.
Posted by Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn]]> Fri, 18 Jan 2013 14:49:08 -0800 The Stranger
Last visit to the gun range a few weeks ago I got to listen to two pro gun guys talking about how important it was for them to have access to high capacity magazines and how nobody better think of coming for their guns, blah blah blah.

I certainly didn't feel any better about guns or gun owners when I left, and was happy to get home where I have access to two archery ranges that are not in the vicinity of a gun range.
Posted by Fortunate]]> Fri, 18 Jan 2013 14:47:46 -0800 The Stranger
And honestly, from a safety standpoint I think you're overgeneralizing based on the idiots who make the news - a deep part of gun culture is safety and treating every gun like it's loaded, all the time.

@68: I'm sure this will get me flagged again as an NRA employee, but it's completely verifiable - go to a shooting range in or around Seattle sometime. I think it will put to rest the idea that the gun culture (at least around here) is only AARP age white dudes or zit faced trench coat mall ninjas waiting to explode.

You don't even have to go inside, just the parking lot.
Posted by Boring Dad is Boring]]> Fri, 18 Jan 2013 14:38:18 -0800 The Stranger
Regardless, I see his experience as just more evidence that education is essential. I would fully support a nationwide gun education program. I bet it would be more effective in dollars per life saved than the feel-good gun buybacks that gun-control-nuts around here are so enamored of.

My personal opinion on concealed carry is that the likelihood that you will be able to successfully use your gun for self-defense is about as likely as winning the lottery, and the likelihood of your concealed carry piece being used against you or being used 'accidentally' being somewhat higher. On the other hand, despite concealed carry being allowed in far more states in the last decade, overall violent crime has gone down.

Regardless, in CB's defense, it seems to me that his actions de-escalated the situation at a point where it was still possible to do so without physical harm to anyone.
Posted by randoma]]> Fri, 18 Jan 2013 14:31:46 -0800 The Stranger
No one is immune to doing something stupid. And eventually we all do something stupid.

That's why I don't want to have to carry a gun. Because I know that I can't guarantee I will never be just like everyone else and do something stupid. And when I do I don't want to do that stupid thing with a gun.

But if everyone else has it, and knowing that everyone has their stupid moments, I will pretty much be forced to carry a gun as well. And trust me, none of you want me carrying a gun any more than I want to be carrying a gun.

Gun advocates tend to be the biggest boon for gun control folks. It's the real gun advocates who are scary as fuck.

I'm not afraid of guns themselves. I don't own one but I grew up in a house with guns. Most of my extended family have guns (which they store safely under lock and key), and I actually know how to use a gun. I'm a fairly good shot with a rifle.

It's not the guns that scare me. It's the people carrying the guns around who scare me. I don't trust anyone who I don't know really, really well who carries a gun (and to be honest there are people I do know really, really well who I wouldn't trust if they were carrying a gun).

Sorry, but for every responsible, law abiding gun carrying adult there is an idiot who thinks he's dirty harry, doesn't know what he or she is doing, and is a danger to everyone around them.

You all may have a right to carry your guns, but you also have to then accept that you won't be welcome in the presence of many people, that many people are going to look at you as a nut, and that people aren't going to trust you.

And if I ever do get a gun it isn't going to be because I feel the need to protect myself from the government, or even some random mugger on the street. It will be to protect myself from my gun toting neighbors because guns make many people overly bold and overly bold people are among the first to do something stupid.

And being a member of a hated minority group I have noticed that a large part of the demographic that are gun carriers overlap a good deal with the demographic of people who hate my kind.

But here is my take on gun advocates. They say it is about self protection. They say it is everyone's right. But when was the last time we saw the NRA doing outreach in black neighborhoods, Hispanic neighborhoods, or gay neighborhoods? Because who needs to be able to protect themselves more than minorities? Until the NRA and the pro gun lobbies start vocally advocating gun ownership among the black community, the gay community or other minority communities then we know that the right of every American to defend themselves is not their motivation. And if black Americans, Hispanic Americans and gay Americans started buying guns enemas you would see such a fast turn about on gun control by politicians and many of the current pro gun factions that it would make your head spin.

Once they realized that all the scary minorities were arming up, and not to fight some insane fantasy of taking on the government but rather to prepare themselves to face THEM, their tune would change.
Posted by Fortunate]]> Fri, 18 Jan 2013 14:18:40 -0800 The Stranger
Posted by Why are there cars?]]> Fri, 18 Jan 2013 14:10:55 -0800 The Stranger