http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2012/12/24/good-guys-with-guns Comments On: Good Guys with Guns . . . by Chicago Fan en-us Copyright 2013 The Stranger. All rights reserved. This RSS file is offered to individuals, The Stranger readers, and non-commercial organizations only. Any commercial websites wishing to use this RSS file, please contact The Stranger. webmaster@thestranger.com (The Stranger Webmaster) Fri, 24 May 2013 00:00:01 -0700 Fri, 24 May 2013 05:45:00 -0700 Foundation http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss
Answer : In order to sell guns.

America, the land where money always has the last word. Time for it to change...
Posted by sissoucat]]> Thu, 27 Dec 2012 03:15:15 -0800 The Stranger
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-r…
Posted by jayme]]> Wed, 26 Dec 2012 12:01:20 -0800 The Stranger http://www.koinlocal6.com/mostpopular/st…

In his interview the citizen (a highly trained private security guard) lists three separate reasons why it was impossible for him to shoot, despite the killer's gun having jammed and this being an apparently ideal situation for the 'good guy' to stop the 'bad guy'. The reasons: there might have been people behind the killer, there might have been a second shooter, the killer had a bigger, better gun than the citizen. Soooo... the killer wanders off and eventually (after threatening more people) kills himself. And you still want to claim this as a victory for the 'good guy with a gun'? Because the killer was apparently so scared of being shot to death that he... shot himself to death?

All of the interceding factors would be absolutely typical in inhibiting defensive action against a prepared, strategic offender. That's why when armed defenders go in they go in heavily armed, in groups, with a plan. Arming bystanders (or even guards) as defence is a nonsense based on fantasy.
Posted by diner mo]]> Wed, 26 Dec 2012 09:21:56 -0800 The Stranger Posted by suddenlyorcas]]> Wed, 26 Dec 2012 08:25:53 -0800 The Stranger
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/nra-takes-f…
Posted by delirian]]> Tue, 25 Dec 2012 19:17:56 -0800 The Stranger
I have no expertise in the area of mental illness and should have been (and will now be) more careful.

Violent *behavior* is my concern, not mental health issues that many people experience.

I'm sorry.
Posted by Boring Dad is Boring]]> Tue, 25 Dec 2012 18:50:47 -0800 The Stranger One thing to keep in mind is that a ton of criminals and psychotics will be showing up to turn in guns as wellYou are such a jerk. You have tied mental illness in with evil and violence, when in fact those that have mental illnesses are no more violent than the general population. But you need a scapegoat. If increasing the stigma and destroying the lives of people who have a mental illness allows you to keep your guns, so be it, right?
Posted by delirian]]> Tue, 25 Dec 2012 18:15:17 -0800 The Stranger
To see how effective gun control is, take a look at murders in Boston..

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massach…

38 out of 50 were committed with a firearm, even though illegal possession of a firearm outside of home or place of business has a mandatory minimum prison sentence of 18 months. Additionally, unlike New York City, where it is pretty easy to go to another state to purchase a firearm, except for Vermont, most nearby states also have very strict gun laws.

The majority of Massachusetts's major gun laws were established in 1998, in 1997 there were 43 homicides, 1998 - 35, 1999 - 31, seems to be working (yay!) however, between 2000 and 2008, the average was over 60 per year, with a max of 75 in 2005 and a low of 41 in 2003.

For a breakdown by date, district and more, including weapon type, see here:

http://blackstonian.com/20yearhomicidere…

There is certainly no clear-cut correlation between stricter gun laws and fewer homicides-by-firearm.

The perpetrator identified in the article that started this should NEVER have been out on the streets. You kill someone with a hammer, you get 18 years and a pat on the f-ing back???

You want to greatly decrease gang violence and a significant amount of burglary/theft - legalize drugs, make it possible for addicts to get treatment..etc..etc. You want to reduce incidents of crazy people killing random bystanders? Get us single payer healthcare and some decent mental health treatment.

You want to keep violent criminals off the street? Stop filling up prisons, and ruining the lives of many poor people by charging them with bullshit drug related charges.

I know.. I know.. Bbbuuuuuuttt Those Things Are Haaaaarrrrdd.

Dan - how about posting every day about drug overdose deaths? Or drug crime related deaths?
Posted by randoma]]> Tue, 25 Dec 2012 17:13:13 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Fifty-Two-Eighty]]> Tue, 25 Dec 2012 16:38:25 -0800 The Stranger
And in that context, I honestly don't think that asking normal, responsible people like me to "go first" is the answer.

Per my rant in @53, how about declaring that drugs for personal use are legal and taxed, and treat them like booze? Cut the profit out of the criminal gangs and let American farmers go nuts producing - there's obviously a market there. Go down to the *drug* store and get your fix, we'll help treat you if you need it and are willing, but the minute you hurt someone in that pursuit, you're going away.

Empty non violent prisoners out of jails and get them help, and crack down with fury on the violent assholes who walk around today.

Enforce the laws on the books, and again, cram every single violent offender found near a gun or a gun transaction into a cement box in Kansas for 30 or 50 years. You want to steal my shit - OK, here's a chance at redemption. You kite some checks - OK, bad man, let's give you another shot. You violently assault another dude, wife, girlfriend, kid, teacher - catch you later, enjoy your fellow violent assholes. We can't afford to take a chance on you coming back and wreaking havoc, sorry.

Then come talk to me about how I should act in protecting my family and neighbors.
Posted by Boring Dad is Boring]]> Tue, 25 Dec 2012 16:23:54 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Ken Mehlman]]> Tue, 25 Dec 2012 15:45:02 -0800 The Stranger
Go ahead and mandate full confiscation of everything but air rifles and bows and arrows. You win.

It will work - a quarter of a billion guns will be peacefully, simultaneously turned in, to be melted down into Chevrolets and refrigerators.

Evil will be finished, and the criminals will *finally* see the light and go back to work at plowshare factories, having discovered that their previous careers involving hundreds of thousands of annual murders, forcible rapes, robberies, and aggravated assaults are no longer enough of a challenge to be interesting once everyone is living in a "gun free zone."

Pass your law. I'm sorry for my deluded concern trolling, I wish the light had come on sooner.
Posted by Boring Dad is Boring]]> Tue, 25 Dec 2012 14:49:06 -0800 The Stranger
So what. We can't ban assault weapons because it's haaaaaaaaaaaaaard! Boo hoo.

The old assault weapons ban was defanged by the NRA. It was the NRA's meddling that filled it with loopholes. And then they turn around and pretend they're taking a stand against ineffective laws? They made it ineffective.

All this stuff about how it won't work is just NRA concern trolling. The truth is the NRA fears an assault weapons ban because it would destroy a lucrative market. They fear mandatory safe storage because millions of their customers are too stupid, frankly, to comply with mandatory safe storage.

The gun nut solution is to ban video games. At the same time they do lucrative product placement tie ins with the very same violent video games they pretend to oppose. The NRA can't even keep their lies straight.
Posted by Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn]]> Tue, 25 Dec 2012 14:26:44 -0800 The Stranger Posted by notsnarkyever]]> Tue, 25 Dec 2012 14:19:07 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Ken Mehlman]]> Tue, 25 Dec 2012 12:39:59 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Ken Mehlman]]> Tue, 25 Dec 2012 12:32:21 -0800 The Stranger
Maybe there's room for improvement there, like throwing away the key on violent assholes? Possibly we could clear out some space by letting the nonviolent drug offenders (who, miraculously, got their hands on *banned* drugs!) go free and lining the pens with the psychos instead of cycling them back into society over and over and over?

I'm all for making background checks more effective - a violent felon attempts to buy a gun anywhere, don't let him walk out - literally deputize the gun store owner, arrest the guy on the spot and stick him in one of the now-vacant cages for a couple decades, or forever - good riddance.

I, and every single other responsible gun owner I know, am all for safe storage, I consider it part of the responsibility of being armed and would support strengthening those requirements with the caveat that you must let people who know guns participate in the design process - please don't let it be something that sounds good to the inexperienced but is totally ineffective, like the last "assault weapons" ban.

And finally, if you feel like you want to push all the way to confiscating all semi-auto and/or multi-shot guns, see my response above @51 - go ahead, just set your expectations appropriately.
Posted by Boring Dad is Boring]]> Tue, 25 Dec 2012 12:22:21 -0800 The Stranger
No nation has anywhere near the level of gun ownership we have, so there's really no valid basis for comparison. Although many European have some of the lowest homicide rates in the world and have rates of private gun ownership equal to about one third to one half that of the US.
Posted by Ken Mehlman]]> Tue, 25 Dec 2012 12:14:43 -0800 The Stranger
It'll TOTALLY work.

I'm pretty sure that all of my tax paying, hard working fellow parents and gun enthusiasts will overflow all of the gun confiscation stations on day one, so make sure you have a lot of volunteers handy. Might want to make it a weekend day so we don't have to take off work.

One thing to keep in mind is that a ton of criminals and psychotics will be showing up to turn in guns as well - once they see on the news that guns are banned they'll be rushing down to turn theirs in that afternoon, so be careful at the confiscation desk, make sure they don't do anything criminal-ish or psycho-ey to you while they're handing over the goods.


Posted by Boring Dad is Boring]]> Tue, 25 Dec 2012 12:01:43 -0800 The Stranger
Machine guns are banned. Why not semi-automatics? The Constitution gives no indication at all where you draw the line between a musket and a nuclear bomb. We don't need to change the Constitution to draw the line in a different place.

Nor do we need to to change the Constitution to close the gun show loophole. Or make background checks more effective. Or require safe storage of guns.

You'd have to be nuts to not understand such simple facts. Hence gun + nut. Gun nut.
Posted by Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn]]> Tue, 25 Dec 2012 12:01:39 -0800 The Stranger Posted by doceb]]> Tue, 25 Dec 2012 11:46:45 -0800 The Stranger Posted by "guns make us safe!"]]> Tue, 25 Dec 2012 11:29:02 -0800 The Stranger the problem is ""the average person just shouldn't have guns." Because it's the nations where gun ownership is far less than our rate is, that are safer, and the ez availability of 280 million guns legally obviously helps the folks misusing guns, keep and bear them. the threat that "I will vote with the NRA if you keep saying that!" only shows my view that gun owners are part of the problem is correct -- how stupid and childish is that?
"Talk like that is why so many gun owners oppose ANY new regulations regarding firearm ownership. " Well jack, there is talk like that and if your shame or guilt prevent you from tolerating it and that's why you like many gun owners will join the nra and support it, well that proves my point-- you guys are the problem. @45 you artfully leave open the possibility that you own a semi automatic ....handgun. but to return to the basic point"

if you believe gun ownership is a good idea for good guys
you will end up with 280 million guns around
then it's super ez for bad guys to get guns
and you get high rates of murder and suicide by gun, high rates of gun massacre and high rates of entire neighborhoods plagued by gun violence
if you don't have that kind of super high ownership of guns
if you have say only ten or twenty percent owning guns
and if they are super well regulated and tightly licensed so that it's just a pain in the ass to get a license and the average suburban mom like ms. lanza isn't going to get one
you don't get as many newtown massacres
so therefore, it's you gun owners collectively who are to blame. now if doceb is aware that there's some massive movement politically by responsible gun owners to reject the nra and push for bans on semis and tight licensing laws and a huge buy back problem, he can earn forgiveness but till then, no, you gun owners ARE the problem because you are why we don't have the gun ownership rates and gun death rates of japan or england or australia. and again note the threat of "don't insult me, or I will pay you back by voting to oppose things that otherwise I will support" -- meaning, "I will continue to back the nra even though on one level I agree with you we should ban semi automatic weapons !" -- this is known as being an asshole, and tends to prove my point. you don't overcome assholery by fearing and pandering to the assholes, you start by calling them assholes. now doceb tell me this, what DO you own? and why?
it's not non gun people who're the problem in the usa. it's the gun owners who directly or indirectly support and accept the gun culture. just owning a gun for home defense supports the nutty view that that's sensible. it's just not sensible. there is NO nation with the super high level of gun ownership we have that has LOW rates of death by gun. QED. the gun owners basic premise is just wrong. till they realize it they will defend it this defends and ensures all these guns all over this supports the nra loving politicians and things won't change and there will be more blood on gun owners hands every month forever into the future while forever into the future in japan there will be like ten murders a year and in england a small fraction of what we've got here. BECAUSE here people believe in guns, and that's NUTTY.
Posted by "widespread guns produce safety!"]]> Tue, 25 Dec 2012 11:24:12 -0800 The Stranger Posted by doceb]]> Tue, 25 Dec 2012 11:13:48 -0800 The Stranger Posted by doceb]]> Tue, 25 Dec 2012 10:48:01 -0800 The Stranger