http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2009/05/18/the-blame-game Comments On: The Blame Game by Jonah Spangenthal-Lee en-us Copyright 2009 The Stranger. All rights reserved. This RSS file is offered to individuals, The Stranger readers, and non-commercial organizations only. Any commercial websites wishing to use this RSS file, please contact The Stranger. webmaster@thestranger.com (The Stranger Webmaster) Wed, 25 Nov 2009 00:00:01 -0800 Wed, 25 Nov 2009 05:15:00 -0800 Foundation http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss
As a big, gay old liberal I would have to say that I agree with just about everything Tabatha has to say in her letter. Security guards DO perform necessary, potentially dangerous jobs that require skills and knowledge. To imply that anyone in the military, or law enforcement or security is a stupid fascist is lame and reactionary.

We do have incredible freedoms in this country and we do have to work hard to maintain those freedoms but you also have to have the common sense to know that freedom is not absolute. And to all you asshats who disagree with me, I guess that means you'll let me photograph your laptop screen while you sit in Starbucks working on that top secret proprietary project for work, or take your picture when you're acting on stage, or follow you to a strip club or The Eagle or The Wet Spot and get some candid action shots of you having a good time because I'm fascinated by man's interaction with sexual taboos and mores...I mean, it's a free country so I can do what I want, right?
Posted by michael strangeways]]> Tue, 19 May 2009 12:08:11 -0700 The Stranger
Regarding the overpriced comments: the reason things cost more at REI than a lot of other stores is mostly because of their return policy, which pretty much tanks their profits. I used to work as an auditor for REI (not in Seattle, though), and I remember that individual stores would lose thousands of dollars every day on returns, because they'd give full refunds for used stuff that people bought months or years before. So basically, when you pay $200 for a pair of boots at REI, you're paying for the assholes who will bring theirs back after 6 months and get brand new ones for free. There's a reason why a lot of people call it Rental Equipment Incorporated, after all.

The backpedaling/blaming of Loomis/SPD sounds just like some of my old bosses at REI, though. I left because the place was turning more and more into a typical corporate groupthink machine, and shit like this makes me so happy I no longer work there!
Posted by Megan]]> Mon, 18 May 2009 21:19:50 -0700 The Stranger
I've been wondering this whole time why, if it's so important that no one see the inside of the ATM, the ATM was serviced during the store's business hours. Why not just before opening or just after closing?
Posted by tekstreactie]]> Mon, 18 May 2009 21:10:02 -0700 The Stranger
While god knows I understand THAT sentiment, I am not sure I udnerstand why the fact that Tabitha and her fiance have popped out a kid or two has her the most 'frustrated.' or the fact that said fiance works hard?

but what does it have to do with the internal doings of an ATM? I work hard and it has more to do with why I have money IN the ATM rather than HOW the ATM works...

Is this some heterosexual thing I have missed in my vast but haphazard understanding of why people have children?
Posted by Womyn2me]]> Mon, 18 May 2009 17:42:57 -0700 The Stranger Posted by Steven Bradford]]> Mon, 18 May 2009 17:28:04 -0700 The Stranger
Sounds sort of eye-for-an-eye, punishment-wise. Now that's something I'd want my camera phone handy for.
Posted by Free Lunch]]> Mon, 18 May 2009 17:18:35 -0700 The Stranger Posted by Will in Seattle]]> Mon, 18 May 2009 16:03:38 -0700 The Stranger Posted by Tina]]> Mon, 18 May 2009 15:50:26 -0700 The Stranger
It totally negates your insult. Just FYI.
Posted by StillNon]]> Mon, 18 May 2009 15:11:08 -0700 The Stranger
Then, when REI security staff are called, regardless of what they said or didn't, REI still seems to be asserting that the Loomis guards were in charge, even though pretty clearly REI called the police not Loomis (or so all the stories seem to agree on).

So: REI's store. REI's security. Loomis guards doing a contract job inside REI at REI's behest for equipment that REI hosts. And it's somehow all devolving to decisions made by the Loomis guards? That stinks so much of a lack of accountability.

REI should do the right thing and pay Becker a small fee for his trouble, apologize to the police, discuss what the right policy is for such cases, and make sure this bullshit doesn't happen again.

If an ATM machine is like the Ark of the Covenant, and you look inside and suddenly possess magic knowledge that burns your skin off, then Loomis needs to bring a box with them that surrounds the ATM and prevents anyone from seeing its secret, magic innards that can be found anywhere on the Internet, including in manuals found on the sites of ATM makers.

Also, Super Jesse is the best commenter ever.

Posted by GlennFleishman]]> Mon, 18 May 2009 15:07:55 -0700 The Stranger
Damm! When are people going to get the smarts that just because a word sounds the same it's *not* the same. There, their and they're *are* different.
Posted by Weekilter]]> Mon, 18 May 2009 14:47:21 -0700 The Stranger Posted by Tina]]> Mon, 18 May 2009 14:45:56 -0700 The Stranger
Thank you for your email and the opportunity to explain the incident
that occurred between one of our customers and a security company
servicing an ATM in our Seattle store. It is unfortunate that the
situation escalated to the point that the police were called by the ATM
security officers and the customer was detained by the police. At no
time did REI detain the individual and we did not request a trespass to
be invoked. We do not intend to enforce the trespass issued by police,
and the customer is free to visit our store in the future.

We appreciate people sharing their varied points of view about what
should or should not have happened at the store. We regret that the
matter couldn't be defused before the police became involved. One step
we are taking is to discuss with the ATM security company ways to
prevent the circumstances that led to this problem.

We value your membership in the co-op and hope to serve your outdoor
needs in the future.
Posted by anonanon]]> Mon, 18 May 2009 14:44:20 -0700 The Stranger
"Emphasis on "knowingly." If REI security did in fact request that Becker be trespassed from the building, then the officers had a duty to inform Becker that he was being trespassed prior to arresting him, and to give him the opportunity to leave. Without fulfilling that duty, the officers could not satisfy the knowledge element of the statute, and therefore lacked probable cause to arrest for trespassing. "

It's private property and REI can pick and choose who gets the 'right' to visit their store. I believe since they were holding him it was ok for the officers to assume REI was looking to press charges because if they didn't they should have let him go (or at least give him the opportunity). Hindsight being 20/20 and we find out REI has no plans to press charges, obviously more a business decision at this point with all this bad press, but I don't think the police did anything wrong in this incident. They responded to a 911 call and they assumed the accused was going to have charges brought against him, the police are not to decide cases this is the work of the judge, the judge we'll never hear from because now that we have more facts to the case it's laughable to think any charges would stick.
Posted by watchout5]]> Mon, 18 May 2009 14:35:56 -0700 The Stranger
I understand there is a certain amount of risk that goes with this type of job, but should we be so dismissive is to say that whatever bad befalls this people they deserve it. That kind of sucks to.
Posted by BaltiHimal]]> Mon, 18 May 2009 14:33:47 -0700 The Stranger
Perhaps she was thinking of that scene in Heat when they shoot down the guards so they can steal some bonds. That is what I always think of when I see armed security guards/vans.
Posted by Lacking Creativity]]> Mon, 18 May 2009 14:08:25 -0700 The Stranger Posted by Brandon J.]]> Mon, 18 May 2009 13:47:43 -0700 The Stranger Posted by Super Jesse]]> Mon, 18 May 2009 13:42:47 -0700 The Stranger Posted by Super Jesse]]> Mon, 18 May 2009 13:37:22 -0700 The Stranger
Nope. Not even close.

She has a right to fear for his safety, but that has nothing to do with this photo. Pull your head out of your ass, Tabatha, and at least be honest about the risks he has decided to accept in his work life. Now decide if you really want to be married to a man who's accepted those risks.

Then shut the fuck up, whatever you decide.
Posted by TVDinner]]> Mon, 18 May 2009 13:30:38 -0700 The Stranger
Honestly, the shit that my fellow Seattleites choose to get their panties wadded up about always amazes me.


Posted by Good Grief]]> Mon, 18 May 2009 13:29:29 -0700 The Stranger Posted by Greg]]> Mon, 18 May 2009 13:28:28 -0700 The Stranger
The statute for Criminal Trespass reads:

A person is guilty of criminal trespass in the second degree if he knowingly enters or remains unlawfully in or upon premises of another...

Emphasis on "knowingly." If REI security did in fact request that Becker be trespassed from the building, then the officers had a duty to inform Becker that he was being trespassed prior to arresting him, and to give him the opportunity to leave. Without fulfilling that duty, the officers could not satisfy the knowledge element of the statute, and therefore lacked probable cause to arrest for trespassing.
Posted by Eric Arrr]]> Mon, 18 May 2009 13:21:47 -0700 The Stranger Posted by Explorer]]> Mon, 18 May 2009 13:17:32 -0700 The Stranger
I learned that money handling rent-a-cops are the heroes of modern society. I learned that you apparently should never ever ever take a picture of a person with a gun, lest they get scared and totally fucking kill you, or something. I learned that you should always show your ID to anyone who asks without question. I learned that the assumption of security through obscurity as a viable methodology is a forgone conclusion. I learned that knowing how something works is the same thing as stealing that thing. And I learned that the stranger staff is completely responsible for every bank and armored car robbery from here on out.

I also learned that there's at least one money handler out there who married a middle school english flunky.
Posted by Super Jesse]]> Mon, 18 May 2009 13:08:40 -0700 The Stranger