http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2012/12/10/slog-poll-horses Comments On: Slog Poll: Horses by Cienna Madrid en-us Copyright 2013 The Stranger. All rights reserved. This RSS file is offered to individuals, The Stranger readers, and non-commercial organizations only. Any commercial websites wishing to use this RSS file, please contact The Stranger. webmaster@thestranger.com (The Stranger Webmaster) Sun, 19 May 2013 00:00:01 -0700 Sun, 19 May 2013 16:45:00 -0700 Foundation http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Posted by Ipso Facto]]> Wed, 12 Dec 2012 22:01:47 -0800 The Stranger
I appreciate hearing stories like mitten's (@45). The sharing of personal experience is much more effective than statements like "one does not put an animal to work for the animal's welfare," which just seem like conversation-enders.
Posted by Drusilla]]> Wed, 12 Dec 2012 15:37:48 -0800 The Stranger
Case closed.
Posted by mitten]]> Wed, 12 Dec 2012 11:51:41 -0800 The Stranger "...and some [horses] are abused."

I do not believe that all instances of employing animals are necessarily abusive. I think the use of assistance animals for disabled people is generally a good thing, for example, as long as the animals are well cared for.

My main gripe in this thread arose from Queen of Sleaze labeling raku an "extremist" for expressing his valid and reasonable concerns about the practice of forcing horses to work in dangerous city traffic and live (at least some of the time) in the confines of urban buildings. This practice is unnecessary and subjects the animals to needless risk and stress.
Posted by Ipso Facto]]> Wed, 12 Dec 2012 01:16:57 -0800 The Stranger you what your own beliefs are (see @41), it's a safe bet that you're not dealing with someone of great intellectual integrity.
Posted by Ipso Facto]]> Wed, 12 Dec 2012 00:41:30 -0800 The Stranger
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Slow…

Posted by six shooter]]> Tue, 11 Dec 2012 21:13:16 -0800 The Stranger
Further, horses are injured and killed every day in pasture accidents. One of my own horses, a rescue that I put countless hours into rehabbing dropped dead in the pasture out of the blue from an aneurysm. They are also injured and sometimes killed while trail riding, jumping, doing dressage, what have you. But I can tell you that incidences of injury and death are FAR less common in any domestic setting than they are in the wild. I think you have some pretty picture in your head of horses running free on the range. Life in the wild is harsh and often times painful and deadly. Horses are lucky to make it to their early or mid teens in the wild whereas horses in domestic settings, including a vast majority of carriage horses, routinely live to their late 20's, into their 30's, and I've even known one horse who lived happily and healthily to 42. Carriage horses in particular are far less likely to sustain injury or die than wild horses and many backyard horses precisely because the industry is extremely regulated and there is a ton of oversight. And in fact the owners have MORE incentive to keep their horses healthy, happy, and well cared than your average backyard horse BECAUSE they rely on them for all or part of their income.

This will be my last post here because arguing with you is like arguing with a religious person. You have a fundamentally different view than I do and I am not going to change that view. Nor are your anecdotes going to change what I know from my lifetime of experience. You can go on believing your animal rights philosophies and condemn all who do not agree with your views while doing absolutely nothing substantive to actually help the horses you are supposed to care so much about. Meanwhile I will continue to put my money where my mouth is by giving my own horses top notch care and devoting my time to working with rescues and horses that have been forced to endure actual neglect and abuse just as I have for many, many years.
Posted by Queen of Sleaze]]> Tue, 11 Dec 2012 19:37:27 -0800 The Stranger "Absolutely nothing abusive going on except to animal rights extremists who don't know shit about horses or horse care. "

@26 (Queen of Sleaze): "You are very misguided if you believe otherwise, likely because you are completely clueless about horses and most definitely clueless about the carriage companies operating in Seattle. "

@32 (Queen of Sleaze): "you are so deluded. Based on the information you're regurgitating I can tell you're getting your talking points from PETA and/or the ASPCA." [...] "I would laugh you off if extremists like you weren't a serious threat to all horse owners and competitors."

@38 (Queen of Sleaze): You initiated the antagonism in this thread. At least have the integrity to admit that.

You can hem and haw about how great the horses' lives are, and claim to speak to the emotional state of the horses, and insist that the horse keepers really (really!) love their horses, but this fact remains a truism:

One does not put an animal to work in an unnatural environment (or any other) for the animal's welfare.

These people are profiting off the labor and novelty of keeping animals in a busy city. Clearly, some of these animals are injured, and some are killed, and some are abused. And for what? The profit of the horses' "owners".

If you try to sell it as anything else, you're being completely dishonest and disingenuous.
Posted by Ipso Facto]]> Tue, 11 Dec 2012 17:36:17 -0800 The Stranger
Horses: always controversial. Way to go, Cienna.
Posted by a horse]]> Tue, 11 Dec 2012 17:12:13 -0800 The Stranger
You are free to disagree with me. I won't tell you to shut the fuck up because I acknowledge your right to have a differing opinion from my own. I'm just countering information given here with my own experience and knowledge. This isn't your own personal echo chamber and if you want to argue your view you would be much more effective if you behaved like an adult and provided some semblance of intelligent reasoning in defense of your opinion.
Posted by Queen of Sleaze]]> Tue, 11 Dec 2012 15:21:24 -0800 The Stranger
While I did respond to QoS's antagonism and insults in kind, the discussion at least centered around claims and counter-claims.

Until you opened your mouth, that is. Your post is nothing but so much hate-filled drivel -- the equivalent of plugging your fingers in your ears and screaming obscenities. You've contributed nothing to the conversation.

What a great detective you must have been. Imbecile.
Posted by Ipso Facto]]> Tue, 11 Dec 2012 15:20:32 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Fifty-Two-Eighty]]> Tue, 11 Dec 2012 14:17:46 -0800 The Stranger
You've done nothing but spew invective and unsubstantiated claims, while raku has attempted to enlighten people about the hazardous conditions of exploited animals. That's right, I said exploited animals.

News Flash! People who love horses DO NOT force them to work in the dangerous, frightening environment of busy downtown city traffic (or stable them in/under city buildings) for the sole purpose of making a buck off their labor and novelty. This is not a loving thing to do.

Go find a conservative blog to grind your axes on, you fucking sleazy asshole. And take that loser Twatt from Denver with you.
Posted by Ipso Facto]]> Tue, 11 Dec 2012 14:03:24 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Gerald Fnord]]> Tue, 11 Dec 2012 11:36:01 -0800 The Stranger
(Horse, cattle, turkey, goat, sheep, pig, human, dog, cat, and chicken, I've dealt with a lot of shit in my time.)
Posted by dwightmoodyforgetsthings]]> Tue, 11 Dec 2012 10:59:46 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Queen of Sleaze]]> Tue, 11 Dec 2012 09:12:32 -0800 The Stranger
@12 Did you read the article in Sunday's NYT about horse meat? I think that's where I read it. Today's horse meat is so riddled with performance drugs that other countries are refusing it.

I think it's perfectly fine to eat horses if you are going to eat pigs. I personally wouldn't eat a pig, though.
Posted by mitten]]> Tue, 11 Dec 2012 08:13:54 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Rowlf]]> Tue, 11 Dec 2012 01:46:20 -0800 The Stranger
@12: I've actually had horse meat - it's still considered a delicacy in parts of Italy. Similar taste to beef, but sweeter. Though for all I know it could've been beef that they serve to tourists for a laugh.
Posted by Ziggity]]> Tue, 11 Dec 2012 01:31:02 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Mugwumpt]]> Tue, 11 Dec 2012 01:05:43 -0800 The Stranger
Even if you believe horses are happy to be tied up and pull people around all day long, they very clearly aren't happy on city streets weaving through traffic, on pavement, surrounded by exhaust, crowds, and constant loud noises.

Do your caring horse people friends keep their horses on pavement with cars and loud crowds zooming around them on their idyllic Eastside farms? If that's how loving horse people take care of horses, they must, right? Or is the Eastside standard for loving horse people to only take care of their horses 50% of the time?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVo1QXVBL…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caSBg-OFW…
Posted by raku]]> Tue, 11 Dec 2012 00:16:13 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Queen of Sleaze]]> Mon, 10 Dec 2012 22:42:11 -0800 The Stranger Posted by balderdash]]> Mon, 10 Dec 2012 22:41:48 -0800 The Stranger Posted by floater]]> Mon, 10 Dec 2012 22:11:34 -0800 The Stranger Posted by this guy I know in Spokane]]> Mon, 10 Dec 2012 21:47:21 -0800 The Stranger