Comments On: Charges Filed for the May Day Vandalism by Brendan Kiley http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2012/11/28/charges-filed-for-the-may-day-vandalism Comments On: Charges Filed for the May Day Vandalism by Brendan Kiley en-us Copyright 2013 The Stranger. All rights reserved. This RSS file is offered to individuals, The Stranger readers, and non-commercial organizations only. Any commercial websites wishing to use this RSS file, please contact The Stranger. webmaster@thestranger.com (The Stranger Webmaster) Wed, 19 Jun 2013 00:00:01 -0700 Wed, 19 Jun 2013 19:15:00 -0700 Foundation http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss <![CDATA[Re: Charges Filed for the May Day Vandalism]]>
That's a very forgiving interpretation of events, Phil, but the material the SPD seized (after McGinn's emergency order) included dozens of identical improvised bolt-tipped truncheons loosely (and, in my own worthless opinion, comically) disguised as "flag poles."

How does this fact fit into your "just ordinary citizens randomly caught up in the excitement" narrative, Phil?

Posted by robotslave]]> Sat, 01 Dec 2012 03:24:17 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Charges Filed for the May Day Vandalism]]>
... I'm thinking masked police informants participated in the thing themselves to keep that paycheck acommin'.


OK, but if that's where you're coming from, then you'll never consider an argument plausible, if it's based on the assumption that the may-day Smashists (and many others who have exhibited comparable bahavior) are real, sincere, ideologically-correct anarchists.

Right?


Posted by robotslave]]> Sat, 01 Dec 2012 03:13:43 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Charges Filed for the May Day Vandalism]]>
Of course, everyone thinks the other people are the assholes.
Posted by dwightmoodyforgetsthings]]> Fri, 30 Nov 2012 18:48:03 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Charges Filed for the May Day Vandalism]]> Posted by 126yearcaphillresident]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2012 11:31:03 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Charges Filed for the May Day Vandalism]]> " I'll grant you the response to the vandalism might have a political component if you'll in turn acknowledge the perfectly obvious fact that the vandalism itself was entirely politically motivated. Deal?"

No, I do not think that it is perfectly obvious that the vandalism was entirely politically motivated. I suspect that some of it was perpetrated by people who got caught up in the excitement and took advantage of their near-anonymity to raise a ruckus for the sheer thrill of it. And I don't think the average cop who was sent out to deal with the situation knew or cared about the difference. I believe that at a higher level, there's more concern about the political component than about the violation of law, and I find that institutional stifling of dissent to be far more concerning than poor little Niketown and their broken window.

Whether you march in the public streets, pitch a tent in a public park, or smash windows of stores owned by rapacious mega-corporations, agents of the state are likely to come down on you hard as soon as somebody calling the shots thinks your message and expression thereof in some way threatens the position of those in power. If your action is simply to, say, steal from me an object of similar value to Niketown's window, not as an act of political of expression, but out of sheer greed, police will do the bare minimum in response to your crime.
Posted by Phil M]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2012 07:50:20 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Charges Filed for the May Day Vandalism]]>
@48 Well yes, the cops are more concerned about law breaking than gardening.
Posted by giffy]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2012 07:43:29 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Charges Filed for the May Day Vandalism]]> Just like Hell's angles, blac bloc fucks have found a winning formula for getting attention; dress up scary, talk ominously about destruction, hit a few hi-vis targets, go back to your anonymous 9-5 job. The cops need people like this justify their existence, hell, I'm thinking masked police informants participated in the thing themselves to keep that paycheck acommin'. Don't underestimate the power of overtime, note that despite there being no Occupy encampment this winter, the mayor authorized more uniformed patrols downtown, bet the police guild really misses us.
Posted by pdonahue]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2012 05:15:33 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Charges Filed for the May Day Vandalism]]> Posted by Bigbutterandeggman]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2012 01:54:37 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Charges Filed for the May Day Vandalism]]> Posted by theoz]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2012 01:53:05 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Charges Filed for the May Day Vandalism]]> The response to this vandalism appears to be politically motivated.

Kind of, but not in the way you suggest.

Thanks to Bush, we have an enormous homeland security bureaucracy that is charged with fighting terrorism, or, in other words, politically motivated violence. I don't think they give a shit whether it's left-wing anarchists, right-wing militias, or middle-eastern jihads - their main concern is to justify their existence.

Even so, I'm not sure this was an overreaction, and I can't help but wonder if your assessment of the significance of these crimes has been softened by your own politics.

The one point I would allow - cops will spend a lot more time/resources tracking down people who commit crimes against cops. They're no different than any other human beings, in that regard.
Posted by seandr]]> Wed, 28 Nov 2012 23:25:17 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Charges Filed for the May Day Vandalism]]>
I'll grant you the response to the vandalism might have a political component if you'll in turn acknowledge the perfectly obvious fact that the vandalism itself was entirely politically motivated. Deal?

I don't know if you were anywhere near the ninja-costume people on may day, Phil, but when they were gathered together (as in their "spontaneous" parade through Belltown) there were clearly more than "a couple dozen" of them; hell, there were more than that just playing in their (totally unplanned!) marching band. I'd put the figure at 150, with no idea at all how many of those might have been locals, and how many from out of state.

If there were 100 car prowlers downtown, I wouldn't expect more than a few dozen of them to actually get just the right opportunity prowl a car, either; and of those, I'd expect no more than half to get caught. And I'd expect both the community and the police to be mad as hell about it, particularly if all the car prowlers had been dressed up in matching Snidely Whiplash masks and capes so everyone would know they had, like, solidarity (but no advance coordination of any sort!).

Posted by robotslave]]> Wed, 28 Nov 2012 22:36:14 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Charges Filed for the May Day Vandalism]]> " If 100 car prowlers from several states all got together and organized and executed a mass car prowl in downtown Seattle in the midst of an otherwise peaceful demonstration, I'm guessing a lot of time, money, and energy would be spent to track them down, prosecute them, and try to prevent it from happening again."

You're implying a comparison of a couple dozen people breaking maybe eight windows, ostensibly as an act of political expression (if an ineffective and felonious one), to 100 thieves prowling cars for profit?

Andrew hit the nail on the head @36. The response to this vandalism appears to be politically motivated. When my car was stolen, the police could barely be bothered to take a report, and eventually ticketed the car for over-time parking even though it had been reported stolen. Car thefts are widespread in Seattle. Breakage of a few windows of similar value to my car resulted in a multi-month investigation.

Anarchists' political ideology threatens the status quo. Doing something about auto theft doesn't provide the opportunity for our roid-head "Anti-Crime Team" to break out the DHS-funded paramilitary boy toys.
Posted by Phil M]]> Wed, 28 Nov 2012 22:21:49 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Charges Filed for the May Day Vandalism]]> I find myself resentful of all the attention paid to a couple of dopes who showed up for the day from the 'burbs to fuck shit up, and go home

That's pretty rich, coming from someone who has spent so much time defending them.

But since you seem to have come around, have you done any thinking about how to prevent them from getting all the attention in the future?

Thanks for taking a huge step back from that ridiculous "oh gosh none of this black bloc stuff is planned" position, it really doesn't do you or your cause any credit.

I guess I'll stop reading anarchist blogs when the anarchists stop putting on ninja costumes and playing Urban Guerrilla Fighters vs. the Bankster Starbucks Oppressors.

As to finding it "creepy," I think you've maybe got a bit of a hangup yourself, there. What's creepy about reading public blogs? If it's creepy for an outsider* to read that stuff, then why aren't those posts happening in a private forum?

 

* and what sort of intellectual or social autonomy are you in favor of, exactly, when you think only The Right Sort Of People ought to be reading your team's newsletters?
Posted by robotslave]]> Wed, 28 Nov 2012 21:47:14 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Charges Filed for the May Day Vandalism]]> As someone who spent a good amount of time doing the backstage work for MayDay, I find myself resentful of all the attention paid to a couple of dopes who showed up for the day from the 'burbs to fuck shit up, and go home. While hundreds of people were engaged in bringing food, setting up a stage and marching around Pike Place market, a high ranking SPD officer decided to wade into the crowd and do a snatch 'n grab, prompting the robocops to extract him. While all this was happening the blac bloc chickenshits ran a zig zag around the courthouse randomly breaking things and went home. Nobodys getting a revolution off the ground, it's just a mob thing, kind of like Mardi Grais or soccer hooliganism.
Please stop lurking in Anarchist chat rooms for your information, it's creepy and obsessive and bears no relation of real anarchist life or events.
Posted by pdonahue]]> Wed, 28 Nov 2012 20:16:24 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Charges Filed for the May Day Vandalism]]>
Hahaha

God, you really think nobody is paying attention, don't you.

Sure, so a couple hundred people turned up for a peaceful protest and they all just happened to be wearing ninja costumes, carrying a change of clothes, bearing identical bolt-tipped truncheon "flag poles," and then they all just happened to find themselves in front of the same plate glass windows at the same time, working autonomously and with no prior planning to smash them together as a group!

You're not going to get your revolution off the ground by talking to your oppressed peoples as if they're utter morons who will credulously swallow bald-faced lies for your political convenience.

Posted by robotslave]]> Wed, 28 Nov 2012 19:35:17 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Charges Filed for the May Day Vandalism]]> I keep telling people about the broken windows at my daughter's middle school, keeps happening, same windows, I dunno, looks like a premeditated crime to me. I guess some broken windows are more important than others.

Posted by pdonahue]]> Wed, 28 Nov 2012 19:20:08 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Charges Filed for the May Day Vandalism]]>
God, I love it. Doesn't this prove all the studies about people making judgement about those who look like them versus those who don't?

Leave it to the phonies and hypocrites of Seattle to turn all soft when thugs who vandalize poor Vietnamese girls working for scale at American Apparel just happen to be the same pasty faced Ballard hipsters that they are...
Posted by Supreme Ruler Of The Universe]]> Wed, 28 Nov 2012 18:55:42 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Charges Filed for the May Day Vandalism]]>
If 100 car prowlers from several states all got together and organized and executed a mass car prowl in downtown Seattle in the midst of an otherwise peaceful demonstration, I'm guessing a lot of time, money, and energy would be spent to track them down, prosecute them, and try to prevent it from happening again.
Posted by robotslave]]> Wed, 28 Nov 2012 18:43:24 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Charges Filed for the May Day Vandalism]]> Posted by hifiandrew]]> Wed, 28 Nov 2012 18:27:05 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Charges Filed for the May Day Vandalism]]> Posted by TotesFierce]]> Wed, 28 Nov 2012 18:23:07 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Charges Filed for the May Day Vandalism]]>
OK, so yes, we have taken it out of context, or otherwise misinterpreted it.

I'm glad you agree that people willingly borrowed money during the real-estate bubble, and were not forced to do so by an evil "the banksters" cabal somewhere within the financial services industry.
Posted by robotslave]]> Wed, 28 Nov 2012 17:27:00 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Charges Filed for the May Day Vandalism]]> Posted by Phil M]]> Wed, 28 Nov 2012 16:57:41 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Charges Filed for the May Day Vandalism]]>
Today's "insurrectionist" or other hyphenated anarchists? They don't have the balls. They feel they are entitled to trample on every convention in the book, and then be able to duck into the night, and not give a care if anything was actually accomplished. Most of them hate unions anyway, for being "structured", showing that their May Day escapades are no more than a political rationalization/cover for anti-social behavior.
Posted by hmmmmm]]> Wed, 28 Nov 2012 16:23:41 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Charges Filed for the May Day Vandalism]]> Posted by SPG]]> Wed, 28 Nov 2012 16:11:26 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: Charges Filed for the May Day Vandalism]]> Posted by Joel_are]]> Wed, 28 Nov 2012 15:56:51 -0800 The Stranger