http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2012/11/27/slog-gold-star-comment-of-the-day Comments On: Slog Gold-Star Comment of the Day by Cienna Madrid en-us Copyright 2013 The Stranger. All rights reserved. This RSS file is offered to individuals, The Stranger readers, and non-commercial organizations only. Any commercial websites wishing to use this RSS file, please contact The Stranger. webmaster@thestranger.com (The Stranger Webmaster) Tue, 18 Jun 2013 00:00:01 -0700 Tue, 18 Jun 2013 20:00:00 -0700 Foundation http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Posted by Hanoumatoi]]> Thu, 29 Nov 2012 00:05:46 -0800 The Stranger
Perhaps you think that teenage behavior is completely unchanging, but I happen to disagree. I went to a high school in a liberal town in California, and we honestly didn't have much of a bullying problem. And the reason is not just because the administration didn't tolerate it- they, after all, couldn't be everywhere at all times.

Ultimately, it was the intolerance for bullying from the other kids that made it socially unacceptable to be a bully. Sure, people were still assholes. People said stupid things. But you couldn't call some gay kid a faggot or physically intimidate him because you would be socially censured.

Where did kids in my hometown get the idea that expressing homophobia wasn't okay? From their liberal parents. The anti-homophobic culture of the town turned out to be the culture of my high school.

Essentially, what I'm getting at is that because it wasn't tolerated in my town at large, homophobia wasn't tolerated in my high school.

I don't know how to make this happen in the gamer community, but the answer isn't "Well, teenagers are always assholes." Teenagers won't say terrible things if it means that they can't play their games.
Posted by alguna_rubia]]> Wed, 28 Nov 2012 20:15:45 -0800 The Stranger
You're embracing the status quo, so passively yes. You are.
Posted by stop making excuses for douchebaggery]]> Wed, 28 Nov 2012 17:17:21 -0800 The Stranger
But one of the ways in which teenagers become mature as they become adults is that they are exposed to arguments and ideas that are counter to the obnoxious ones that they, being teenagers, currently hold. That exposure has to start somewhere, and it usually does start in their teens even if it takes them until their adulthood to actually learn from them. Oftentimes it takes the form of adults (or smarter teens) calling them out on their bullshit.

That being said, it may not be any MORE effective when the method of calling them out involves kicking them off of an online game, and hopefully they're not spending enough time gaming for it to make a real difference whether they're called out there or not. But at least the other players are rid of their bullshit in the meantime, so I don't see the problem there.
Posted by Bonefish]]> Wed, 28 Nov 2012 16:35:42 -0800 The Stranger
It's OK to not like things. But don't be a dick about the things you don't like.
Posted by GermanSausage]]> Wed, 28 Nov 2012 15:18:22 -0800 The Stranger
There will always be gray areas but it is really not that hard to set and enforce some standards on sexist, racist, or harassing behavior. If you want to use certain words or insults then you take the risk that the person you are saying them to will be offended and report you. Playing with your friends, say whatever the hell you want, playing with a person you have never met, act like a fucking grownup until you get to know them and know how they see this stuff.

I could careless about a 'chilling effect' on someone's speech in an online video game and the chance of some mistakes is not enough to outweigh the benefits. You can have an appeal system for that.

Censorship is perfectly fine and desirable in many contexts. Slog censors, bars censors, everybody censors.
Posted by giffy]]> Wed, 28 Nov 2012 14:16:08 -0800 The Stranger
What's wrong with it? God, where to begin. First you've got to create a staff to monitor millions of comments. That's about as useful as people whose job it is to clean bathroom graffiti. Second, there's no way anyone reads all those comments, so it would have to rely entirely on a report feature. And that opens up huge amount of room for people abusing report features, which leads to drama and bullying of its own. There's the inherent problem of people being unable to read sarcasm on the internet. The chilling effect of having some asshole authoritarian figure reading what you're saying. The fact that moderators would be human beings, and capable of making mistakes, not to mention being abusive. The fact that what is and isn't sexist is subjective. Some people, for example, consider the word "bitch" to be sexist and should be banned. Should "bitch" be banned? How about "Son of a bitch?" If "cunt" is banned, why not "son of a bitch?" And "cocksucker?" Why, that's homophobic, right? I myself sure wouldn't want to pay for a service that bans "son of a bitch". So there'd be the drawback of reasonable people with principles not participating in the community.

I could go on. Yes, sexists are bad people. So are, IMO, people who encourage pointless censorship.
Posted by GermanSausage]]> Wed, 28 Nov 2012 13:58:21 -0800 The Stranger
And yes that is exactly what I am saying. You have no right to demand that other people let you use their property for your speech. I have no idea where people got this dumbass idea that they can impose upon others in that way.

If someone was in my house or business and saying a bunch of offensive thinks I would kick their ass out without a bit of remorse or second thought.
Posted by giffy]]> Wed, 28 Nov 2012 13:39:09 -0800 The Stranger
That's pretty much the textbook definition of censorship.

Though it's true, it's not a violation of the 1st amendment, if that's what you were trying to stay. Still, it comes with a host of problems.
Posted by GermanSausage]]> Wed, 28 Nov 2012 12:54:43 -0800 The Stranger http://www.childtrendsdatabank.org/sites…

Bullying is not getting worse, but we are paying more attention to it. It's like autism. The rates have not gone up, but we've gotten better at identifying it.

And who is talking about feel good measures? Ban the fuckers. Or punish them. Do that enough and they'll stop.
Posted by giffy]]> Wed, 28 Nov 2012 12:36:25 -0800 The Stranger Posted by TheMisanthrope]]> Wed, 28 Nov 2012 10:28:58 -0800 The Stranger
Shockingly, people do get that even with some better policy and rules this shit will not completely go away. It will however be less and that is better.

@35 When talking about government yes, the government should not censor speech, but that is not the same thing as XBL doing it.
Posted by giffy]]> Wed, 28 Nov 2012 09:49:30 -0800 The Stranger
Now, that does nothing to solve the endemic problem most female players and designers face. That's going to be a long, hard row to hoe. But we'll get there. Best thing to do, along with making this issue more visible, is just let the trolls play with trolls. Block them from your friend's list, punt them from your sessions, and encourage friends to do the same. I have one friend still in college who has the severe misfortune (in this case) of being young, hot, asian, and a gamer. The shit this poor girl has to listen to disgusts me. All she wants to do is relax after a long day of classes, volunteering, and working as an RA is shoot some people in peace and quiet. Is that really too much to ask?
Posted by NateMan]]> Wed, 28 Nov 2012 08:42:01 -0800 The Stranger There are a lot of things you can do about hate speech. The best thing being to ignore it. Censorship causes more problems than it solves.
Posted by GermanSausage]]> Wed, 28 Nov 2012 08:32:38 -0800 The Stranger
I mean, really, if an adult tells a teenager to stop smoking because they're being an asshole, it doesn't get the teenager to stop smoking. Or, drinking. Or to get their grades up. Really, if every teenager brooded upon being corrected, there wouldn't be nearly as much troubled youth. They'd all just brood. Not saying that I wouldn't say shit to them, but it won't change shit. At all.

@30 Oh, yeah, teenagers act with such respect in school. That's why there is absolutely no bullying. And, no suicides due to bullying. Yeah, you know what? I don't know of a single instance of a school where teenagers behave like humans across the board. When you find one, let me know. I'd like to witness this. Not to mention a public place where there are no adults watching.

Perhaps I have an even lower regard for teenagers than you guys do. Which is why I don't play games with open servers and listening on headsets much. I find it more than obnoxious.
Posted by TheMisanthrope]]> Wed, 28 Nov 2012 08:30:35 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Rotten666]]> Wed, 28 Nov 2012 07:51:22 -0800 The Stranger
There's nothing that can stop hate speech? Nothing? BS. This is a leadership issue.

Posted by Not acceptable]]> Wed, 28 Nov 2012 07:10:06 -0800 The Stranger
"Nagging," eh? "Nagging it into non-existence."

Pretty sure your entire sentence is the misogynist's definition of feminism.

Posted by femwanderluster]]> Wed, 28 Nov 2012 06:07:30 -0800 The Stranger
Yes, I get that many teenage boys are assholes. Used to be one in fact. But that does not mean that adults are simply powerless to set up and enforce rules. Nor does the fact that rules would not be 100% effective mean we should not try.

I really don't get why in almost every other area of life people get that better, while maybe not perfect, is still better, but when it comes to sexism either you solve the whole problem in one go or you might as well not try.

While the nature of teenagers is unlikely to change soon, we can at the very least not let them define the culture of online gaming. We can and should force them to behave with basic human respect just like we do in school or in other public places. Will that solve the problem of sexism, no, but it certainly will make gaming a better experience for women, and for the majority of men who are not asshole teenagers.
Posted by giffy]]> Wed, 28 Nov 2012 05:53:02 -0800 The Stranger Posted by emma's bee]]> Wed, 28 Nov 2012 03:41:00 -0800 The Stranger
It doesn't take much to influence teens. They may or may not be mental trashheaps by default, but if the adults who interact with them actually act like adults, they can definitely clean up the joint, and come the fuck on: standing up to shit-talking teens is a low goddamn bar to clear in terms of courage and social conscience. It is literally the least you can do, and that was my point.
Posted by balderdash]]> Wed, 28 Nov 2012 00:36:35 -0800 The Stranger
Thanks, Cienna! I'm glad my occasional rageposts are worth something, sometimes.
Posted by balderdash]]> Wed, 28 Nov 2012 00:11:50 -0800 The Stranger
Most of the games such as Halo and Gears of War etc are aggression outlets for many gamers. Unfortunately, venting and thinking "I should not be a dick" are relatively exclusive thought patterns. Sorry. And especially to a teenager.
Posted by TheMisanthrope]]> Wed, 28 Nov 2012 00:10:57 -0800 The Stranger
(but seriously this is more important because WTF gamers come the fuck on)
Posted by Unregistered User]]> Tue, 27 Nov 2012 23:46:44 -0800 The Stranger Posted by natalie]]> Tue, 27 Nov 2012 21:55:43 -0800 The Stranger